Can We Hang Them? Please?

Via, this. An Early Day Motion.

EDM 982

FIDEL CASTRO
20.02.2008
Burgon, Colin

That this House commends the achievements of Fidel Castro in securing first-class free healthcare and education provision for the people of Cuba despite the 44 year illegal US embargo of the Cuban economy; notes the great strides Cuba has taken during this period in many fields such as biotechnology and sport in both of which Cuba is a world leader; acknowledges the esteem in which Castro is held by the people and leaders of Africa, Asia and Latin America for leading the calls for emancipation of the world\’s poorest people from slavery, hunger and the denial of human rights such as the right to life, the right to shelter, the right to healthcare and basic medicines and the right to education; welcomes the EU statement that constructive engagement with Cuba at this time is the most responsible course of action; and calls upon the Government to respect Cuba\’s right to self-determination and resist the aggressive forces within the US Administration who are openly planning their own illegal transition in Cuba.

Signatures.

Colin Burgon

Trickett, Jon
Cruddas, Jon
Gibson, Ian
Clapham, Michael
Mudie, George
Hopkins, Kelvin
McDonnell, John
Cryer, Ann
Abbott, Diane
Taylor, David
Riordan, Linda
Price, Adam
Skinner, Dennis
Heyes, David
Iddon, Brian
Jones, Lynne
Llwyd, Elfyn
O\’Hara, Edward
Campbell, Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Corbyn, Jeremy
Dismore, Andrew
Flynn, Paul
Francis, Hywel
Hamilton, David
Battle, John
Clark, Katy
Devine, Jim
Prentice, Gordon
Purchase, Ken
Sheridan, Jim
Singh, Marsha
Holmes, Paul
Hood, Jim
Hoyle, Lindsay
Humble, Joan
Lepper, David
Murphy, Denis
Owen, Albert
Cohen, Harry
Crausby, David
Dean, Janet
Dobbin, Jim
Drew, David
Efford, Clive
Etherington, Bill
Grogan, John
Hamilton, Fabian
Austin, John
Begg, Anne
Taylor, Dari
Wood, Mike
Anderson, David
Davies, Dai
Buck, Karen
Caborn, Richard
Challen, Colin
Cook, Frank
Sharma, Virendra Kumar
Simpson, Alan
Havard, Dai
Kilfoyle, Peter
Mackinlay, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Chaytor, David
Davidson, Ian
Galloway, George
Turner, Desmond
Salter, Martin
Vis, Rudi
Slaughter, Andy

59 comments on “Can We Hang Them? Please?

  1. “calls upon the Government to respect Cuba’s right to self-determination”

    Calling Castro a “Hero of the Left” doesn’t exactly sit well alongside calls for self-determination: that’s the one thing that any country led by such a Hero never gets..

  2. “denial of human rights such as the right to life”

    How may thousands did Castro put do death?
    I hope when this vile regime collapses and they start unearthing the bodies in the unmarked graves, those who signed the above motion will visit Cuba and explain themselves to the Cuban people.

  3. Trust Amnesty International to go and spoil good news about Cuba:

    “For the past 40 years, Amnesty International (AI) has campaigned against human rights violations committed by the Cuban government, in particular, the imprisonment of political dissidents and journalists as a result of severe restrictions on the freedom of expression, freedom of association and assembly.

    “AI has also expressed serious concern about the negative impact of the US economic embargo on the ability of Cubans to fully enjoy their human rights.”
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AMR25/003/2007

    Fancy Dennis Skinner and George Galloway signing up to the same motion. Whatever next?

  4. Guess all these folk are now on record as ‘applauding mass-murderers’, as well as being total idiots.

    My favorite false assertion (among a raft of them) has to be ‘illegal embargo’. Either Colin Burgon is an idiot, or pretending to be one, since the ’embargo’ was in fact quite legally enacted.

    At least we know: these fools approve of killers. Presumably they hold Hitler and Stalin in even higher regard than Castro.

    I hope these signatories visit Miami sometime, there to explain their stance to the Cuban expat community. Such a journey would provide great entertainment value for us, I think.

  5. Pingback: Liberty Alone » Blog Archive » Idiot MPs - can someone create a response?

  6. “That this House commends the achievements of Benito Mussolini in achieving first class rail travel for the people of Italy despite the enduring hostility of the Albanian people.”

    Fucking socialists. The only reason Castro, Stalin and Mao are heroes to these scum is that they were able to do what socialists in this country can only dream of.

  7. “Fucking socialists.”

    For any who missed this illuminating study of socialist thought in Britain:

    “However it was with the idea of a state planning agency that [Stuart] Holland [Labour MP for Lambeth, Vauxhall 1979-89, political assistant in Downing St to the PM 1967/8, and shadow Financial Secretary to the Treasury 1987-9] hoped to show the new possibilities open to a more just economy. He looked to the Italian example of the IRI (the Industrial Reconstruction Institute), set up by Mussolini and used by subsequent Italian governments to develop the economy. This had, of course, already been tried through the IRC (the Industrial Reorganization Corporation) set up as part of [Britain’s] National Plan in 1966, but the IRC had been too small to have much effect on the British economy. A revamped IRC in the form of a National Enterprise Board would, however, have a major effect in stimulating the private sector through an active policy of state intervention and direction.”
    Geoffrey Foote: The Labour Party’s Political Thought: A History (Palgrave, 3rd edition (1997)) p.311.

    Even Hitler was sufficiently generous to credit Mussolini’s pioneering creation of the fascist state. The extraordinary thing now is how anyone could have believed that fascisam is somehow “right wing”. Mussolini was a member of the Italian Socialist Party and editor of the party newspaper until he was expelled from the party and went on to found the Fasci Italiani di Combattimento in 1919.

    Does this sound a familiar theme?

    “We must not reckon profit and loss according to the book, but only according to political needs. There must be no calculation of cost. I require that you do all that you can and to prove that part of the national fortune is in your hands. Whether new investment can be written off in every case is a matter of indifference.”
    Speech of Goering quoted in John Hiden: Republican and Fascist Germany (Longman 1996), p.128.

  8. “National Socialist” is another big hint.

    That the Nazis are right wing is the biggest lie the left ever got away with.

  9. “How may thousands did Castro put do death?”

    After the revolution itself, in which both sides did a lot of killing (as one might expect during a war), somewhere round 0,000 to the nearest thousand.

    “I hope when this vile regime collapses and they start unearthing the bodies in the unmarked graves”

    Yeah, right. US propaganda about Cuba really is bloody mad, isn’t it?

  10. “leading the calls for emancipation of the world’s poorest people from … the denial of human rights such as the right to life.”

    eh?

    [and … this is by no means downplaying the odiousness of Castro’s regime … it’s very silly to equate him with Stalin, Mao]

  11. Remind me someone.
    If a Cuban citizen wants to get to the US he improvises a boat out of some oil drums & an old car & sets sail at night in the hope of surviving a 90 mile sea crossing without being arrested & imprisoned or drowning.
    If a US citizen wants to get to Cuba he takes a cheap flight to Mexico & another to Havana.
    And the traffic is in which direction?

  12. @PJ: Was anyone claiming that Cubans in Cuba enjoy a better lifestyle than citizens and legal immigrants do in the US? [clue: no, they weren’t]

  13. By my reckoning Mr Burgeon makes at least 11 factual errors (or lies) in that EDM. That’s quite impressive for such a concise paragraph.

  14. john b, you lickspittle of fascists, by most estimates the Castro regime has carried out over 40,000 political executions during its reign. And hundreds of thousands of people have been incarcerated during that time for their political beliefs. One FIFTH of the Cuban population lives in exile. How many thousands died trying to cross to the US? How many died in Cuban-backed strife in Africa? Just because Castro’s vile tyranny doesn’t come with the megadeath body count of Mao or Pol Pot is no reason to invent lame apologias. Kilodeaths is bad enough.

  15. you lickspittle of fascists

    I’ll add that one to the insults book – awesome.

    by most estimates the Castro regime has carried out over 40,000 political executions during its reign

    Only if you count Batista supporters killed during the civil war as ‘political executions’, which is silly. Total executions according to any sane source, even quite strongly anti-Castro ones, don’t exceed 2000 from 1959-63 (yes, executing 2000 people is bad. But the country was at civil war; how many Nazi sympathisers did we, wrongly, execute in 1939-1946?)

    Only really, really mad people with no credibility whatsoever make estimates above 2000 – you’re talking about people like Lago, who run ‘think tanks’ staffed entirely with pro-embargo Miami activists.

    And even they can’t pretend that the regime carried on with any programme of mass political killing after 1963 (although Rummel, who counts anyone who drowns while being trafficked to the US as the victim of a political killing, has a good albeit doomed and insane go…)

  16. Just noticed that you’re *also* classing economic migrants to the US who drown on the way as victims of Castro’s political killings – I guess that’ll be why you believe the 40,000 figure then…

  17. I call ’em how I see ’em. Any attempt to justify or rehabilitate thugs like Castro makes you a lickspittle. You don’t even have the figleaf that Pinochet-boosters have, which is that for all the messy egg-breaking, at least Chileans ended up with an omelette. And I’ve never seen a figure as low as 2000 (even which, pro rata to the US population would be over 50,000).

    Of course economic migrants to the US who drown are political victims. If they were free to immigrate by getting on a plane at Havana airport and applying for a green card, then they wouldn’t drown, would they? Castro’s prison camp state denies them that opportunity – ergo their miserable and barbaric deaths are political. Or would you not count those who died trying to cross the Berlin Wall as victims of Communism? They were just guilty of false consciousness, lured by empty capitalist materialism?

  18. Sounds to me like arguing the level of evil dictatorship is like arguing degrees of torture. We shouldn’t even be debating this. We should be condemning any ideology that talks of breaking eggs, whether making an omelette successfully or not.

    No MP in the House of Commons should be glorifying dictatorships. That so many Labour MPs do so tells us everything we need to know about that party.

  19. http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
    THIS IS THE FAMOUS ‘GREAT AND FREE HEALTHCARE’ THAT REGULAR CUBANS RECEIVE

    One of the greatest fallacies about the so called ‘Cuban Revolution’ has to do with healthcare.

    Foreigners who visit Cuba, are fed the official line from Castro’s propaganda machine: “All Cubans are now able to receive excellent healthcare, which is also free.” But the truth is very different. Castro has built excellent health facilities for the use of foreigners, who pay with hard currency for those services.

    Argentinean soccer star Maradona, for example, has traveled several times to Cuba to receive treatment to combat his drug addiction. But Cubans are not even allowed to visit those facilities. Cubans who require medical attention must go to other hospitals, that lack the most minimum requirements needed to take care of their patients.

    In addition, most of these facilities are filthy and patients have to bring their own towels, bed sheets, pillows, or they would have to lay down on dirty bare mattresses stained with blood and other body fluids.

  20. Kay Tie: agreed. That’s why I called it a figleaf. I would however like to know what the Leftist slant would be had Chile followed Allende and descended into the Cuba-like hell hole it threatened to become. We’d no doubt be hearing all about 100% literacy and wonderful healthcare (which as ACO correctly notes, is bollocks).

    I’d add further, that when Castro was dying of rotten tripes (I like to think that all the concentrated socialist evil ate a hole in him), they had to get a gastroenterologist from Spain to patch him up.

  21. johnb:
    But the country was at civil war; how many Nazi sympathisers did we, wrongly, execute in 1939-1946?)

    None at all. Don’t try and draw some moral equivalence between the UK in WW2 and Castros regime. Because there isn’t one.

  22. “how many Nazi sympathisers did we, wrongly, execute in 1939-1946?)”
    It could be argued that William Joyce (Lord Haw-Haw) was wrongly hanged for treason because he was an American citizen and a naturalised German. However, his possession of a British passport (to obtain which he had lied about his nationality) crucially meant he owed allegiance to the Crown during the time he began broadcasting to Britain for the Nazis after the war started (1939). But, since the case went up on appeal to the Court of Appeal and then the House of Lords which found against him 4-1, he was rightly hanged. It is testament to the justice inherent in the English Legal System that the odious little shit received a full trial and two appeals and wasn’t simply shot out of hand as he deserved.

  23. C’mon. All that William Joyce did was to broadcast pathetic Nazi propaganda from Germany during the war. He should never have been hanged IMO. What he did was minor stuff in comparison with this:

    It was only after watching the video of an interview with Professor Anthony C Sutton of the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, that I came to appreciate the longevity and pervasive extent of the connections between certain American corporations and the distinctive varieties of socialism – Bolshevik Socialism, National Socialism and Welfare Socialism:
    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6244851259954264539

    The threat is evidently far more serious than I had supposed.

    Recalling past minor threats in Britain like Joyce, few now wish to remember that Sir Oswald Mosley, founder of the British Union of Fascists in 1932, had been a cabinet minister in Ramsey MacDonald’s Labour government 1929-31. Mosley wrote to The Times on 26 April 1968: “I am not and never have been a man of the right. My position was on the left and is now in the centre of politics.”

    And Lloyd George, the last Liberal prime minister of Britain, considered Hitler a great leader after meeting him in 1936 – see the article he wrote for the Daily Express of 17 November 1936:
    http://www.icons-multimedia.com/ClientsArea/HoH/LIBARC/ARCHIVE/Chapters/Stabiliz/Foreign/LloydGeo.html

  24. Yes, no worse than “Jittery Joe” Kennedy, the American Ambassador, who said during the Battle of Britain “Democracy is finished in Britain [which is just] fighting for her self-preservation.”
    But neither Mosley or Lloyd George committed treason. Mosley began as a Conservative MP and descended beyond contempt into ridicule when P G Wodehouse satirised him as Sir Roderick Spode of the Black Shorts. Ramsey MacDonald (Labour, then National Labour) was Prime Minister in the Conservative majority National Government1931-35. Crazy guy, crazy times! And Lloyd George’s misguidedly rosy view of Hitler in 1936 (which soon changed), was a commonly held one until Kristallnacht. The Nazis were uncommonly adept at media spin. Just as people wrongly say that the Queen believes everywhere is freshly painted, so too did VIPs like Lloyd George or the Webbs, H G Wells, G B Shaw in the Soviet Union only see the good side of things; Potemkin villages as it were.
    And Roosevelt’s New Deal was a bit socialist don’t you agree? To end, James A C Brown wrote in Techniques of Persuasion:

    “Communism and fascism or nazism, although poles apart in their intellectual content, are similar in this, that both have emotional appeal to the type of personality that takes pleasure in being submerged in a mass movement and submitting to superior authority.”

    Thanks for raising some interesting points and great links Bob.

  25. Executions in Cuba? Che alone claimed to have signed 2,800 orders for execution. The Black Book of Communism gives a figure of 17,000 by the Castro regime.

    To equate it to the U.S., with 30 times the population, we’re talking 510,000. Let’s say half a million or so executions to understand what went on.

    The Leftists considered General Pinochet so horrible that they hounded him to his dying day. At the time of his take-over and later, the toll was about 4,000 and the population of Chile about 25 million.

    Therefore the international community of saintly Leftists should demand that he meet justice, perhaps in the same manner as Socialist Benito Mussolini.

    Two million fled the Cuban paradiso, so compared to the U.S., it would come out as 60 million heading toward socialism, such as Cuba, Venezuela, etc. Instead we have 14 million illegals fighting to stay here! Wow. And our Liberals and Communists don’t flee this Capitalist hell, do they?

    A challenge: go to Cuba, photograph every hospital, inside and out, and map their locations. Let us see what goes on there? That should be something Castro would allow, to support his bragging, right?

  26. On Monday, I came back from Cuba. What I saw shocked me to my very core. Cuba is one big prison, no cuban is allowed to leave the country. Cubans get paid £6.00 a month. Their food is rationed. This is what they are allowed a month. 5lbs of rice 1half pounds of beans 5lbs sugar, half pound sald. packet of coffee, 9 eggs and one small soap every two months.

    Half way through the month they have used up all their money.

    The houses are the worst I have every seen in my life they are all falling apart. The water pipes the electricity the building are all in the highest state of delapidation.

    There are 3 types of cars driven in cuba. Government cars. Hired cars for tourist. Cars that cubans are allowed. The only cars that cubans have are once they owned in the 1950’s. They are not allowed to buy a new car.

    They is only one party in Cuba and anyone who disagrees with the government is taken away. Police are crawling the streets. On every block there is a resident who’s job it is to spy for the government of all the activities of the block.

    How any British MP can praise Fidel Castro is beyond understanding.

  27. I’m just really upset to see my own MP, John Battle’s signature amongst this group of fascists.

    If the Liberterian Party need a list of surefire places to field candidates then these MP’s constituencies should be the first.

  28. Nizza Fluss, perhaps they secretly dream of a state where they are never threatened with being voted out – and after all, Cuba is not just a Socialist state, it is also Sustainable.

    Isn’t that just what they say they want?

  29. Of course economic migrants to the US who drown are political victims. If they were free to immigrate by getting on a plane at Havana airport and applying for a green card, then they wouldn’t drown, would they?

    But the US wouldn’t give them a green card, would it? The reason there is a massive illegal exodus from Cuba to the US which isn’t parallelled among Cuba’s neighbours is that Cubans who make it to the US are immediately granted permanent residency. If everyone else from Mexico and the Caribbean were extended the same concession, then the exodus from Haiti and Jamaica to Florida would be equally relentless.

    If Nizza’s actually been anywhere near Cuba, I’ll eat a hat-on-toast. Possibly to Miami for a brainwashing session…?

    Oh, and what Bob B said re Nazi sympathisers. We executed some. We shouldn’t have. If you think we were right to do so, then you’re not in much of a position to condemn Castro’s actions during the civil war.

  30. @john b: I’m sure Nizza would be happy to email you her boarding pass and the pics she took in Cuba, if you will undertake to post a pic of yourself eating a large sombrero on toast on your blog.

  31. John B: “Oh, and what Bob B said re Nazi sympathisers. We executed some. We shouldn’t have. If you think we were right to do so . . . ”

    As said above, I certainly don’t believe it was proper to hang William Joyce just for broadcasting Nazi propaganda from Germany during WW2, especially when his citzenship was controversial and most Brits during the war regarded the broadcasts as just a bad joke. It all looked so highly arbitrary when others, on both sides of the Atlantic, were far more culpable, notably in events that led up to the war.

    That interview with Professor Anthony Sutton gave me a really warm glow inside as a resident of inner-London through WW2 when I recall those bombers flying overhead and dropping bombs were powered by fuel with Tetra-ethyl Lead supplied courtesy of American corporations. The predictions of US Ambassador Joseph Kennedy in 1940 that we were doomed in Britain took on a new significance – thank heavens for the likes of Ed Murrow and the American fighter pilots who came to fight for us in the decisive Battle of Britain in the summer of 1940:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_R._Murrow

    And Sutton’s revelations about those curious exemptions from US strategic bombing targets during WW2 were absolutely amazing.

    And then I remembered all that hard work Senator Prescott Bush put into fund raising for the Nazis:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

    Of course, there are those who still puzzle about how Tony Blair got us entangled in President Bush’s foreign policy, which even most Americans don’t support according to the latest polls. Alas, there is a straight forward answer.

    Remember the Third Way? When Blair first made that speech back in 1998, someone online posted up that the Third Way had a documented fascist provenance. Surely that cannot be, I thought. Blair’s academic advisers and Alastair Campbell would have checked even if he didn’t have the time with all the pressures of being a New Labour prime minister. They would, wouldn’t they? But I thought it best to check, just in case.

    The second book I picked up was by Martin Clark, an academic historian at Edinburgh University, on: Modern Italy 1871-1995 (Longman 2nd ed. (1996)). On p.250, where the author writes about the policies of Mussolini’s fascist government, I came across this revealing sentence: “They seemed to offer ‘a third way’, between capitalism and Bolshevism, which looked attractive in the Depression. …”

    Now we know. Extraordinary, especially as the second edition of Martin Clark’s book was published before the 1997 election.

  32. John B writes, “Oh, and what Bob B said re Nazi sympathisers. We executed some.”

    Difficult to prove a negative in the time available to me, but I am pretty sure no one was executed simply for being a sympathiser. Joyce (the most doubtful case) broadcast for the Nazis. John Amery recruited British prisoners of war to serve in the German army – he was executed but the few soldiers who joined the British Free Corps were not. If serving soldiers weren’t executed for actually fighting for the Wermacht I find it hard to believe that others were executed merely for sympathising.

    Three British subjects, George Armstrong, Duncan Scott-Ford and Theodore Schurch were executed for spying for Germany.

    This website has more, though I haven’t read all of it.

    Several thousand people were interned under Defence regulation 18B. Nearly all of them were let out in 1944.

    As for Cuba – when the files have been opened on every other communist dictatorship the mass executions have been revealed. What makes Cuba different, the sunshine?

  33. “Difficult to prove a negative in the time available to me, but I am pretty sure no one was executed simply for being a sympathiser. Joyce (the most doubtful case) broadcast for the Nazis.”

    Joyce didn’t have secrets to pass on and, if anything, he was good for morale in war-time Britain.

    But more to the point, what of all those who promoted the cause of fascism and flag-waved for the Nazis before the war started? What of them? Why weren’t they tried and executed?

    As for the American corporations who ensured that the Luftwaffe had ample supplies of Tetra-ethyl Lead . . .

  34. ut more to the point, what of all those who promoted the cause of fascism and flag-waved for the Nazis before the war started? What of them? Why weren’t they tried and executed?

    Indeed.

    Why weren’t all the appeasers and peace at any price people tried and executed too. George Lansbury was gone but they could have dug up the corpse a la Cromwell.

    And then we could try and execute all those people who cheered the Soviet Nazi Pact and tried to sabotage the war effort because it was Capitalist’s War.

  35. Harry Cohen is such a toad. Big fat expenses claims,

    http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/search/display.var.540073.0.harry_cohens_expenses_tip_the_scales.php

    housing allowance on a second place in Colchester (not in his constituency) even though he really lives for 90%of his time in London in a house he owns in his constituency, only 6 miles from Westminster.

    http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/search/display.var.2062669.0.leytonwanstead_mp_defends_right_to_claim_home_allowance.php

  36. Bob B – “And then I remembered all that hard work Senator Prescott Bush put into fund raising for the Nazis”

    Please do not compound the Guardian’s vicious and untrue smears with vicious and untrue smears of your own. Prescott Bush worked for an American company that represented Fritz Thyssen. Back in the early 1930s Thyssen, worried about Communism, funded a large number of non-Leftist parties, one of which was the Nazi Party which got some small donations. By 1939 Thyssen had been forced into exile for his opposition to the Nazis. Before he did that, he moved many of his assets into a Dutch holding company to protect them from the Nazis. Prescott Bush worked for an American company that held shares in this Dutch company. So far from working to make the Nazis rich, he was in fact working for a political refugee from the Nazis and trying to keep his assets out of their hands.

    Frankly I find this an entirely worthy and moral activity. It is true that Thyssen got caught up in the purge of “Enemy property” as he was still German. But then a lot of Jewish refugees were also interned for being German. Doesn’t mean they weren’t refugees. Or make them Nazis.

    That article was one of the lowest points the Guardian has ever hit if you ask me. I fail to see what Bush did that was wrong. I’d be proud to do the same.

  37. “That article was one of the lowest points the Guardian has ever hit if you ask me.”

    Give ’em time. I’m supremely confident they can go lower…

  38. TDK – “And then we could try and execute all those people who cheered the Soviet Nazi Pact and tried to sabotage the war effort because it was Capitalist’s War.”

    I wouldn’t miss Eric Hobsbawm.

  39. Btw what of Professor Sutton’s insistence that American corporations ensured the Luftwaffe had secure supplies of Tetra-ethyl Lead?

    Again, I refer to American sources:

    “After the Rockefellers, the next largest stockholder in Standard Oil was I.G. Farben, the giant German chemical company. . .

    “I.G. Farben eventually built its own concentration camp, known as Monowitz, which was closer to the site of the complex than Auschwitz was, in order to eliminate the need to march prisoners several miles to and from the plant every day.

    “This was the company enthusiastically embraced by Standard Oil as well as other major American corporations like Du Pont and General Motors. I do not, however, state that Standard Oil collaborated with the Nazis simply because I.G. Farben was its second largest shareholder. In fact, without the explicit help of Standard Oil, the Nazi air force would never have gotten off the ground in the first place. The planes that made up the Luftwaffe needed tetraethyl lead gasoline in order to fly. At the time, only Standard Oil, Du Pont, and General Motors had the ability to produce this vital substance. In 1938, Walter C. Teagle, then president of Standard Oil, helped Hermann Schmitz of I.G. Farben to acquire 500 tons of tetraethyl lead from Ethyl, a British Standard subsidiary. A year later, Schmitz returned to London and obtained an additional 15 million dollars worth of tetraethyl lead which was to be turned into aviation gasoline back in Germany.

    “After the war began in Europe, the English became angry about U.S. shipments of strategic materials to Nazi Germany. Standard Oil immediately changed the registration of their entire fleet to Panamanian to avoid British search or seizure. These ships continued to carry oil to Tenerife in the Canary Islands, where they refueled and siphoned oil to German tankers for shipment to Hamburg.”
    http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v13/3/oil.html

  40. So Much For Subtlety:

    I can easily cite American sources about US Senator Prescott Bush’s connections with Nazi fund raising.

  41. Bob B – “I can easily cite American sources about US Senator Prescott Bush’s connections with Nazi fund raising.”

    No you can’t. You can simply find a source that repeats the original smear. Because Prescott Bush had no ties to Nazi Fund raising. Again the source you cite simply proves that PB worked for Thyssen – a refugee from the Nazis. It is absurd to assume that all Germans were Nazis – and that is especially stupid when the German is an ideological opponent of the Nazis who was forced into exile for his political views. PB did not raise funds for the Nazis. He helped a refugee protect his assets from Nazi seizure.

    This is an entirely moral undertaking.

  42. “Because Prescott Bush had no ties to Nazi Fund raising. ”

    Rubbish – face the facts, there are many web sources documenting US Senator Prescott Bush’s connections with fund raising for the Nazis, including evidence collected by John Loftus, a former prosecutor in the Justice Department’s Nazi War Crimes Unit.

    A timeline:
    http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/Bush-Nazi-links.htm

    “Again the source you cite simply proves that PB worked for Thyssen – a refugee from the Nazis.”

    Thyssen only became a refugee from the Nazis in 1938, five years after Hitler was installed as Reich Chancellor because Thyssen evidently had second thoughts.

    Friedrich Flick, a partner of Thyssen in the German Steel Trust that created the Nazi war machine, was sentenced to seven years at the Nuremberg Trials.

    Every time I think back to those times of being bombed in London during WW2, I shall now recall that those bombers were up there because American corporations ensured the Luftwaffe had ample supplies of Tetra-ethyl Lead.

    The fact is that support for the Nazis in America was widespread before WW2. Recall that speech by that American hero Charles Linbergh at Des Moines, Iowa on 11 September 1941:

    “The three most important groups who have been pressing this country [America] toward war [WW2] are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt administration.”
    http://www.charleslindbergh.com/americanfirst/speech.asp

    The is how the American historian William Shirer, author of: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, reported in chp. 25 the situation in the US Congress after Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941:

    “My own impression in Washington at that moment was that it might be difficult for President Roosevelt to get Congress to declare war on Germany. There seemed to be a strong feeling in both Houses as well as in the Army and Navy that the country ought to concentrate its efforts on defeating Japan and not take on the additional burden of fighting Germany at the same time.”

    Germany and Italy declared war on America on 11 December 1941. Britain had been at war since 3 September 1939.

  43. Bob B – “face the facts, there are many web sources documenting US Senator Prescott Bush’s connections with fund raising for the Nazis, including evidence collected by John Loftus, a former prosecutor in the Justice Department’s Nazi War Crimes Unit.”

    There are many web sources documenting the Moon landings were a fake and the Jews did 9-11. Doesn’t make them true. Nor do your claims which are frankly absurd. They are the left wing equivalent of the John Birch society’s allegations that Eisenhower was a Communist.

    Bob B – “Thyssen only became a refugee from the Nazis in 1938, five years after Hitler was installed as Reich Chancellor because Thyssen evidently had second thoughts. ”

    Your point is? You have no idea what Thyssen did or did not think. Indeed he made it clear what he thought – the Nazis turned out to be otherwise than he thought. As this became apparent, he fled.

    Bob B – “Friedrich Flick, a partner of Thyssen in the German Steel Trust that created the Nazi war machine, was sentenced to seven years at the Nuremberg Trials.”

    Flick, of course, did not flee Germany as a refugee. He did not have a problem with Hitler. Thyssen did. Was Prescott Bush Flick’s personal banker? I think not.

    Bob B – “Every time I think back to those times of being bombed in London during WW2, I shall now recall that those bombers were up there because American corporations ensured the Luftwaffe had ample supplies of Tetra-ethyl Lead.”

    By all means, think what you like. That American and British companies did business with German companies is irrelevant. It is not, by the way, as if the Germans could not have got by without the relatively small amount of T-e L they bought from Standard Oil. Doesn’t mean that American companies were all secretly Nazi.

    Bob B – “The fact is that support for the Nazis in America was widespread before WW2.”

    Among small sections of the German community perhaps. But not widely.

    Bob B quoting someone else- ““My own impression in Washington at that moment was that it might be difficult for President Roosevelt to get Congress to declare war on Germany.”

    Isolationism – and a desire to fight the people who actually attacked America – is not a sign of being pro-German much less a Nazi.

    Bob B – “Germany and Italy declared war on America on 11 December 1941. Britain had been at war since 3 September 1939.”

    Which is all very interesting but still does not prove that Prescott Bush was a Nazi – much less that Alan Foster Dulles was.

  44. Can anyone give me the references for the assertion that
    “the aggressive forces within the US Administration … are openly planning their own illegal transition in Cuba”?
    “Openly” must mean that there are such sources.

  45. Pingback: Parliament of Fools » Spectator Blogs

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