Ah, no Libby

No, no, that\’s not the point at all:

Government and its regulations exist to defend us from incompetent or bad strangers, not from our mates.

Government is about the exercise of power over others. The expression of the desire to make sure that everyone does as you think they should, not as they would wish.

That\’s why this democracy shtick is only the least worst of all the options: because of the lust for power that those who are prepared to stand for election have.

20 comments on “Ah, no Libby

  1. The point of government should be to protect us against attack by others. There should also be something to protect us against attack by the government. This was the intended purpose of the Constitution of the US, but it hasn’t worked like that for a long time because their government routinely ignores it. In UK, we don’t even have the illusion of anything to protect us from our government, which rather explains the state we’re in now.

    The reality of government is, as Tim says, that those who are in power by virtue of the misguided notion of democracy are able to do whatever they wish.

    I disagree that democracy – three wolves and a goat voting on dinner – is the least worst of all the options; a better situation is one where wolves can eat anything except goats, and goats can eat anything but wolves.

  2. I am going to be a bit Laodicean on this . The State is , both. It is at once the ritual expression of the groups civil arrangements ( Good thing ). Legal Guarantor of freedoms ) as in the King’s Peace ( Good thing ).
    Neither is the rest of it evil. It is a focus of cooperation whereby risks are shared , for example the risk of being sick , or attacked by enemies . Also it is a provider of infra structure like roads and many other functions where central organisation assists cost and continuity .There was no Eden before the State ,life for most was slavery which is not to say that what Tim says is not also true .

    Its a balance we want surely ? The sort of balance David Cameron will try to regain for this wonky country . Now surely we can all agree on that ?

    *hands spread in mute appeal to reason *

  3. Ian B , peace freedom and order are as important as democracy but can you direct me to a place where these have these goodies without it ?

    Perhaps we are not wolves ?

  4. Newmania, alas our democratically elected rulers are, indeed wolves. Having established the principle that numerical superiority legitimises all rulings, no course of action is closed to them; that’s what democracy is. Thus they can legislate my actions however they wish, proscribing activities which have no effect on anyone but me. Tim uses the word bansturbation; banning for the sake of it.

    “There was no Eden before the State ,life for most was slavery”

    The function of the state should be to abolish slavery, not to become the replacement slave-owner; and the fact that the state provides roads does not mean that the state SHOULD provide roads.

    (Incidentally, I am not the Ian B who regularly comments here and in other places.)

  5. “not to become the replacement slave-owner’

    The new rate of tax and NI for those on £100k means that to put £100 into the pocket of an employee, the total cost to the employer is £289. Being forced to give the wolves 63% of your work is close to a modern form of slavery.

  6. • The new rate of tax and NI for those on £100k means that to put £100 into the pocket of an employee, the total cost to the employer is £289. Being forced to give the wolves 63% of your work is close to a modern form of slavery.

    Oh quite Katie such desperate conditions are virtually indistinguishable from being packed off to be used like a beast whilst enduring intermittent rape torture and early death. My problem with the top rate is that it will lose revenue , the suffering of those who pay it I can live with .

    Appreciate your zeal

  7. Incidentally ,as a woman , when you venerate this primordially free state , has it ever struck you that for every dark age ‘Charles the Just’ there are about ten ‘Rob The Ravagers ‘. Not all beer and skittle for the ladies I `m, guessing …..

    Just a thought

  8. James one thing the parties could do is actually pay attention to what the people say and want.

    It’s the parties’ decision to ignore us and treat us with contempt.

    It will come back to bite them, I hope. Unless the people have completely lost their spirit.

  9. I did say a modern form of slavery. If Harriet Harman can call prostitution slavery then I can call 63% tax rates slavery.

  10. Newmania said: “the suffering of those who pay it I can live with”

    That says so much about the mentality of the sayer.

    I for one think it is morally wrong that the state should forcibly take from anyone more than half of what they earn (to be honest I resent them taking any of it by compunction but leaving someone with less than half of their hard-earned seems particularly repugnent).

  11. “the disconnect between representation and actually having a say is too broad”

    The fundamental problem with “representative democracy” is that inpractical terms it’s impossible for anyone to represent all of his constituents. My MP cannot represent both me and my brother, simply because he’s a socialist and I’m not. The solution is a form of governance which permits him to do what he wants and me to do what I want so long as we don’t adversely affect anyone else. That would be fine by me, but it’s not what my brother wants (because he’s a socialist).

  12. “The solution is a form of governance which permits him to do what he wants and me to do what I want so long as we don’t adversely affect anyone else. That would be fine by me, but it’s not what my brother wants (because he’s a socialist).”

    Quite. So the first thing to do is to get socialists at least to admit that this is indeed what they demand and to stop any use of the word “freedom” forthwith as a result.

  13. Cleanthes; I agree, but it won’t help because the socialists’ concept of freedom is not the same as yours or mine. Consider their use of the term “wage slave”. They see freedom as the ability to do whatever you want, or whatever anyone else can do, absent any consideration of how this is to be facilitated.

  14. The belief in democracy is the most egregious example of the triumph of hope over experience.
    How can it make sense to suggest that G Osborne has the wisdom and virtue to control the economic destiny of 60 million people, and that if he doesn’t produce satisfactory results the situation will be remedied by, for example, E Balls?
    That it doesn’t make sense and yet the people still believe demonstrates that God may be dead but religion is not.

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