Lenin Speaks!

Yes, apparently, the Labour Party, the historic party of the organised working class, frequent party of government, creator of the welfare state, and the outright poll leader du jour, needs the ordure, the fascist, semi-fascist and pre-fascist residues, the most outright reactionary, thuggish and ignorant shit in the country. Without appeasing the scum, it seems, Labour will never be a winner.

For all their interest in the proletariat Marxists have never been all that interested in the lumpen proletariat.

Might be something to do with the way they don\’t espouse the correct opinions I suppose.

8 comments on “Lenin Speaks!

  1. I find it incredible that part of the reasoning behind labelling people as fascist or semi-fascist is their persecution of Muslims.

    A majority of Muslims in this country are quite religiously conservative, attend worship frequently, believe in the literal truth of holy doctrine, and support the somewhat non-liberal aspects arising from said doctrine (homophobia et al).

    Had such people been considered Christian conservatives, for exactly the same reasons above, the leftists would be cheering their persecutors onward, yet, because it’s a different religion somehow they get a free pass, and, ironically, some sympathy.

    A lot of organised religion, in particular Islam, has nasty fascist (or semi-fascist) elements to it, so lambasting one group whilst defending a similar group seems a pointless argument.

    You can apply equally the (abridged) phrase “the Labour Party, … needs the fascist, semi-fascist and pre-fascist residues,” to the Left’s wooing of conservative religious minorities of the last few decades, ultimately leading to the cross-cultural clashes we see today.

  2. ….A lot of organised religion, in particular Islam, has nasty fascist (or semi-fascist) elements to it…..

    There are certainly elements that are attacking Jews & Jewish targets.

    For anyone not wedded to Marx, this is all very simple. People should be left alone to live as they wish. To the leftist only certain types of lifestyle are allowed.

  3. The support of the working class has always been a battleground for the left, and the demonisation of any non-soviet, left-wing, working class movement as ‘Fascist’ began in the 1930’s Soviet Union. Hayek himself said that he was always amused at how interchangeable the membership of the Austrian Communist and Nazi parties was.
    Today, ‘Fascist’ simply means someone the left doesn’t approve of, and the conflation of ‘Fascist’ and ‘right-wing’ is fixed in the public mind.

  4. Blimey, Tim, did you manage to read all that stuff in your link?
    Could it be that the backbone of the BNP (the skilled workers and lower middle class, apparently) is also the backbone of England, and might have some legitimate concerns and aspirations?
    So why ain’t the tory scum courting them too?

  5. There are certainly elements that are attacking Jews & Jewish targets.

    I was thinking about the cultural superiority, totalitarian laws and desire for world domination myself, but I suppose the anti-semetic aspect just adds to it.

  6. Yeah, this is feeble even for Tim Worstall.

    The comment being quoted refers to ‘supporters’ of the English Defence League whose ‘supporters’ largely comprise a spine of NF and BNP members, a mass of racist football hooligans, and a periphery of nutters and thugs. Their mode of operating is to travel to a town or city and attempt to beat up and terrorise Muslims. So, it is the presence of pre-fascists, semi-fascists and fascists in the ranks of EDL supporters which leads me to refer to them as pre-fascists, semi-fascists and fascists.

    Secondly, as the above makes clear, this really doesn’t have anything to do with the ‘lumpenproletariat’. Perhaps there’s something about crews of violent men with low education that leads one to think ‘lumpenproletariat’, but I didn’t characterise the EDL in this way. Moreover, I don’t consider the EDL as primarily an expression of the ‘lumpenproletariat’. Aside from the professional far right political activists involved, the EDL would appear to have the support of plenty of middle class people. The middle class elements in the EDL would include dear ‘Tommy Robinson’ himself who is – when not deliberately mispronouncing words and hamming up his ‘uneducated oik’ demeanour – making his money as a small businessman.

    Lastly, in the rush to snigger about – hee hee hee – ‘Lenin’ denouncing the lumpenproles as ordure, the point has been missed. The burden of what I was saying was that the spectacle of a Labour Lord pretending that the Labour Party needs to flatter and woo such detritus is laughable. But perhaps it wouldn’t be as easy to giggle about that.

  7. “Could it be that the backbone of the BNP (the skilled workers and lower middle class, apparently) is also the backbone of England, and might have some legitimate concerns and aspirations?”

    Again, an exercise in point-missing futility. The majority of skilled workers, and even the majority of the lower middle class, have nothing to do with the BNP. The point of discussing the basis of their support is to challenge the claims that they articulate the latent concerns of a univocal ‘white working class’. The evidence doesn’t support such a depiction. Their core electoral support comprises localised (and obviously minority) fractions of different classes, and it is riven with antagonisms along the lines I discussed.

    But I remind you that the people that Lord Glasman wants Labour to court are a few thousand fascists, racists and hooligans – not even BNP voters, most of whom wouldn’t vote for Labour anyway, but supporters of a violent street gang. Yes, undoubtedly they have legitimate concerns – like, maybe they pay too much for some things, or maybe they aren’t taxed fairly, or maybe some of them are stuck in unpleasant jobs etc. Who doesn’t have ‘legitimate concerns’? It’s evasive and trite to think that the mere mention of such concerns solves anything in respect of this argument, which concerns.

    As for skilled workers and the lower middle class being the ‘backbone of England’, this is a boring and self-indulgent morality fable. It depends for its apparent coherence not on a clear analysis of the contribution of different social groups, but on sentiment.

  8. Mr Seymour, what strange views you have on the proprietors of small businesses. Nevertheless, if they were true it would be novel to find faux members of the proletariat other than in the Labour Party.

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