And now a strange request

Anyone got a spare ePOS system lying around somewhere?

Portugal\’s got a weird and strange retail law coming in. You\’ve got to add the customers\’ \”fiscal\” number to every receipt now. Which means the entire country now needs new tills/retail systems.

And we\’ve a little shop and so thought we\’d just ask. Needs to be windows based so we can run hte special Portuguese \”fiscal\” collection software on it.

But anyone got one lying around? Upgraded their own version recently or something?

20 comments on “And now a strange request

  1. Internet lingo is always exciting. This is an “electronic” Piece Of Shit. Yes?

    /me still with-it and groovy with the bright young things

  2. Do you really need a till? Why not just use an ordinary PC running Windows and the “fiscal” sw and some epos sw. If you need receipts, just use an ordinary laser printer. Receipts don’t need to be from a till roll.

    Tim adds: That’s what we’re working through. What’s the cheapest method of doing what we legally have to.

    Finding it difficult to find out what the legal requirement for the new software is, nothing unusual in that here.

    Maybe it will run on a £100 till? Or only on a PC? Which version of Windows required if so?

    Etc, etc.

  3. What is a customer fiscal number Timmy? Is it a uniques identifier, something that would allow the treasury to track what individuals are spending their money on?

    Or is it a kind of generic classification, like a tax band?

  4. What is a customer fiscal number Timmy? Is it a unique identifier, something that would allow the treasury to track what individuals are spending their money on?

    Or is it a kind of generic classification, like a tax band?

    Tim adds: “fiscal” is national insurance number.

  5. You can see where that is leading.

    Tax inspectors reviewing how much you’ve spent -v- how much you’ve declared.

    Of course the health nazis will be very interested in how many fags and booze you’ve bought too.

    Loophole I suppose is tourists?

  6. Does this mean that, if you go on holiday to Portugal, you have to get a Portuguese fiscal number before you can do something like paying for your room, buying beer at the supermarket, or getting a pizza at a restaurant?

  7. OK, so they are using this fiscal code to track the spending of the citizens. Looking for people who are making money in the black economy for example, by comparing their spending against their declared income. Stuff like that.

    They’ll probably just end up by boosting the market in fake foreign ID cards and passports.

  8. Can see it now. A small off licence has 11,000 different customers a year – but actually only 2 dozen individuals with additional ID…. plus a little old lady who is the only person in town with one ID.

  9. Coming to the UK and the rest of the EU if the Commission has its way. Or that’s what the FSA told me. The Commission hope to introduce it in mid 2014. Apparently, our lack of a national ID card will make it harder. It’s to accompany the LEI (legal entity identifier).

  10. So where does the responsibility lie with ensuring a false fiscal number is not used? With the shopkeeper? Or does the customer need to show his ID when buying milk?

  11. If the uk are really planning to enforce something like this then this is the poll tax of the European union in the uk. Has anything been announced in the uk?

  12. Are the Portuguese really going to sit still for this? OK, I know the Brits would moan, write letters to the Times, then knuckle under like good little serfs. But the Portuguese? They’ve had fascism. Recently.

  13. They can’t be Fascists because they aren’t wearing military uniforms. You can track every item an individual buys, you can yearn to limit and monitor everything they eat and drink, regulate their right to free expression to the point where you cannot even ‘offend’ someone without being arrested but unless you are wearing a comedy uniform, you cannot be a fascist.

  14. Hold horses a minute – adding a number to a receipt doesn’t mean that the transaction gets logged in some great government database. Though that could of course be the next step.

    I’m still wondering how non-Portuguese will ever be able to buy anything in Portugal again. Or is this only a requirement if the customer cares about their receipt and having their number on it, perhaps for proof that it was their expense, or tax-deductible thingy. I assume green fees are tax-deductible business expenses for certain people.

    Tim adds: Ah, but the till rolls are then (electronically) filed with the VAT man. So yes, it does go into a big database.

    Complete nonsense of course, for if no “fiscal” then enter 99999990. Which is what everyone will be doing.

  15. James V – remember that one of |Gordy’s measures was to combine the Inland Revenue with HM Customs. In a courageous state, with any reasonable database, such a development would give your tax inspector access to your living expenses. A reatiler would get an exemption for say, 10% of transactions with NI number unknown but would be liable for fines on any excess.

    So then, along comes Plod one day, representing your income tax inspector, but with the powers to smash down your front door of the old HM Customs. He starts to ask nasty q’s: “How can you afford to spend £40k when your gross income is only £30k?”

    What’s not to like? /sarc

  16. @Diogenes, I’m not a defender of the idea, though I think it is more a daft waste of money than sinister.

    I still don’t know, if I change planes in Lisbon can I buy a beer without first going to the Portuguese tax office for a fiscal number? Can I get a mars bar out of a vending machine there?

    In other words, is this actually an idiotic obligation on retailers, or is it that if you want to claim some expense for tax you need (as customer) your number there in a harder-to-falsify form, and that retailers are thus obliged to offer this service to said customers? It would rather stop you collecting the whole street’s petrol receipts.

    Tim adds: If you don’t have a fiscal, the retailer can put in 999999990.

    As everywhere else, you can already ask for a VAT receipt for claiming purposes. And you already have to give your fiscal to get that. No, this is really the creation of a national database of everyone who buys anything.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>