Complete Argle Bargle in the Telegraph

Non-EU citizens will be able to work in Britain after Bulgarian restrictions lifted.

Complete nonsense.

Hundreds of thousands of people from poor countries outside the European Union will be free to find jobs in Britain as a result of restrictions on Romanians and Bulgarians being lifted on New Year’s Day.

Romania and Bulgaria, whose citizens will now have the right to work freely in the UK, are offering passports to people in non-EU countries including Moldova and Macedonia.

Historic ties also mean that some Serbs, Ukrainians and Turks are eligible to claim passports that would allow them to work anywhere in the EU.

People who used not to be EU citizens but who are now EU citizens will be able to work in the UK.

And in the case of places like Moldova it’s probably the best damn thing that could happen to the place.

33 comments on “Complete Argle Bargle in the Telegraph

  1. Well, it doesn’t appear to be complete nonsense; the implication here rather is that ISTM the passports are like a flag of convenience.

    Also, I’m not entirely sure why we should care what is good for Moldova. Does Moldova care particularly about what is good for us? Moldovan GDP/cap appears to be little more than $4000 according to Wiki. If these people are of some merit to an economy, wouldn’t it be better for them to achieve something of economic merit in Moldova?

    I mean, in the spirit of new year’s good will or whatever, why specifically is it supposed to be a good idea for every foreigner with a donkey and cart to cram into western Europe? I mean, other than that fucker from Domino’s wanting cheap pizza makers?

  2. Ian, the implication here is that there are indigenous Romanians in in Serbia, Moldova and the Ukraine. They’re given Romanian passports because they’re Romanian.

  3. Well, Ian, after decades of selective immigration – you know – taking the qualified and professionals from all over the world to keep down the salaries of the likes of me, having the scut jobs opened up to cheap competition is merely redressing the balance. It should leave me with more money in my pocket, which is great by me, seeing as the protectionist socialist scumbags chose to deliberately suppress wages for professionals by inviting competition in, but inflate wages for scuts by keeping competition out, let’s see how they like it up’em.

  4. @Pat
    Please. This is Romania we’re talking about. There’s a Romanian down the road from me would sort you a Romanian passport easier than you could get a TV license. Or Bulgarian, if that’s your preference.
    I’m tempted myself.

  5. I think the article may be right but for other reasons. As Ian B says, employers like “that fucker at Dominos” who can’t get staff at crap wages have always petitioned to be allowed to have non-EU and/or Romanian/Bulgarian workers. Ie people who will take wages the Poles won’t. Now that Romanians and Bulgarians won’t be so easily exploited, Dominos and such like will want workers from North Korea etc.

  6. James V, you may be right, but my own experience (of law firms) is that the professionals are English with a few (white) commonwealth, while the cleaners are African. Not sure the scuts have been that protected.

  7. Luke: “…Dominos and such like will want workers from North Korea etc.”

    Hmm, tree bark & dog flesh pizza is even less appealing than a ham & pineapple one, somehow.

  8. There are lots of people working in the EU with EU passports who grew up somewhere else with parents of grandparents from somewhere in the EU, and who only took advantage of that citizenship to come and live and work in the EU later. EU law gives them the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, and they do. There are lots of Australians in the UK with Irish or Italian or Greek or Cypriot or Maltese of other passports. (There are lots of Latin Americans with Spanish passports, too, but they are less likely to come to London). There is nothing new in this, and the number of people from Moldova and Macedonia who will come with Romanian or Bulgarian passports is quite small compared to the number doing it already.

    As for Moldovans, Romanian law allows people who are the descendants of Romanian citizens prior to World War 2 in territories that were part of Romania then to obtain Romanian citizenship. (This means from modern Moldova west of the Dniester, basically). Essentially, people who had their Romanian citizenship stolen by Stalin are being given it back. Damn right.

  9. There is nothing new in this, and the number of people from Moldova and Macedonia who will come with Romanian or Bulgarian passports is quite small compared to the number doing it already.

    Exactly. These people will likely number in the low thousands, possibly hundreds. Hardly the Mongol hordes.

  10. Tim. If Nigerian passports gave right of entry to the UK, how much of Africa’s population would be Nigerian? Would once having seen a picture of Lagos in a newspaper & a fist full of wonga make one a Nigerian national?

  11. From speaking to several non-Nigerian Africans, I think they’d rather die than become Nigerian. They appear to be universally detested by other Africans.

  12. There are lots of Latin Americans with Spanish passports, too, but they are less likely to come to London

    For fear the filth will shoot them to death.

  13. Forced migration after the two world wars created much more ethnically and confessionally homogeneous states, so the numbers actually qualifying from Moldova, Ukraine or wherever are likely to be low.
    On the other hand, if you have a problem immigrant and you want to get rid of him discreetly, what better way than issuing a EU passport?

  14. Telling UK residents what’s good for them, Tim, would come better from someone who hadn’t fled the country.

  15. Ah yes,Tim I do know what you mean. I know several Nigerians.Even they prefer to say they’re from somewhere else. When Jamaica’s a better choice, one can feel their pain.

  16. Bloke in France: That is the case, but not so much for Bulgaria and Moldova. In this case, a border was imposed through the middle of an ethnic group, and there was no bulk resettlement of populations the way there was in Ukraine and Poland in particular. As a consequence, the bulk of the population or Moldova are entitled to Romanian citizenship. There is nothing frivolous or fraudulent about it, though. There is nothing terribly unusual about it, either. Lots of central and Eastern European countries (including a few other EU members) offer citizenship to descendants of their citizens who were displaced and/or otherwise lost citizenship when bad stuff happened in WWII. While the number of people in Moldova (2.5 million or so) to who this applies is large as a percentage of the Moldovan population, it is not especially large compared to the number of citizens of EU counties in total to whom similar things apply. (There are many more people entitled to Irish citizenship outside Ireland than inside it). It is also not especially large compared to the total population of Romania (21m). And oddly enough, the bulk of Moldovans who seek out Romanian citizenship do so because they want to go to Romania, not the UK. (The Romanian economy is one of the great post-communist success stories. And Bucharest is a fun, fun place).

    There are also a couple of hundred thousand Gagauz people in southern Moldova who speak a language closely related to Turkish and are entitled to Bulgarian citizenship because their ancestors were forcibly relocated to Bessarabia from Bulgaria by Tsarist Russia in 1824. And possibly a million ethnic Russians who either were resettled from Russia post 1945 or to Trans-dniestr either pre or post 1945, and these people are not entitled to EU citizenship of any kind.

    Bulgaria/Macedonia is like Romania/Moldova in the sense that an artificial border was placed down the middle of a language/ethnic group without forcibly moving populations. However this happened longer ago (Balkan Wars, around 1911), a much stronger separate national identity now exists in Macedonia than does in Moldova, and there is no general entitlement to citizenship. There are a few Macedonians who are entitled to Bulgarian citizenship due to family ties and/or migration, but the number is negligible – a few tens of thousands at the most.

  17. I think the best damn thing that could happen to Moldova would be straightforward reunification with Romania, actually. There seems to be quite strong support for this in Romania, too.

    Unfortunately, it cannot happen until the Transnistrian question is settled. This is probably why the Russians are happy to make sure that the Transnistrian question is not settled.

  18. Thank you Mr Jennings.
    Is the Transnistrian question a bit like the Schleswig-Holstein question?

  19. It all sounds a bit like the Sudetenland question to me.

    But fascinating as it is, I think the bigger question is why the ethnic or indigenous or otherwise nature of people who are or are not intrinisically Romanian would give them any particular right to fetch up at Luton airport to be publicly fondled by Keith Vaz MP.

  20. Tim Newman – “Exactly. These people will likely number in the low thousands, possibly hundreds. Hardly the Mongol hordes.”

    They keep saying that and the numbers turn out vastly larger. Britain is on track to top 90 million people within the life time of some of the people on this blog. It is going to over-take both Germany and Russia in terms of population – at least it will if Russia does not do something to halt its decline.

    That is an unprecedented change. It also means the end of the sort of English Liberal tradition so beloved of this blog. Only WASPs vote for it. The Labour Party scoured the world for new voters. The Tories are following them by caving into Big Business. It means the end of the Tory Party as we know it. And the end of Britain as we know it.

    This is not far off a Mongol horde.

  21. I think not, SMFS
    If the English Liberal tradition is only attractive to WASPS there’d be little point in defending it. As it happens, the E L t is in fact part of the attraction to the immigrants.

  22. bloke in france – “If the English Liberal tradition is only attractive to WASPS there’d be little point in defending it. As it happens, the E L t is in fact part of the attraction to the immigrants.”

    Sorry but why would there be little point defending it? Isn’t one small beacon of freedom and development worth protecting?

    The *results* of the English Liberal tradition is what attracts immigrants here. But it is a complex tradition that is not easily transferable.

    The French have had a lot of exposure to it, for instance. They have produced fine economists in the liberal tradition. They have even experimented with the idea of liberalism. They have not produced a liberal culture or a strong free market political party. Even the Germans, who are closer to the English in culture, don’t take to it. They have a liberal party. It was almost extinguished in the last election and has never been particularly significant.

    An even better example would be Britain’s vibrant multi-cultural communities. Who turned their own countries into complete sh!tholes. A verdict that I don’t think even they would dispute. And so they come to Britain to benefit from someone else’s culture – and they insist on retaining their own. To the point of turning parts of Britain into sh!tholes too. That is as true of Brixton’s Yardies as it is of Bradford’s Islamists. Look who they vote for. Tell me how England’s Liberal tradition is doing in Tower Hamlets.

    We see this as clearly in America – the other major example of England’s liberal tradition. There, it cannot survive outside the White community either. Illegal immigration has turned what used to be a White majority California into a Minority Majority economic basket case. Detroit is even worse. New York seems doomed to follow. Obama would not have been elected but for the refusal to enforce America’s immigration laws.

    It is not that these non-British people are stupid. It is not that they do not appreciate the benefits of that liberal tradition. It is just that their traditions and deeply rooted and virtually impossible to change. France is never going to be anything other than an authoritarian over-administered nation. If we asked 50 million French people to move to the UK, the UK would be as well. Instead we are going to ask a bunch of Romanians and Bulgarians (both hardly well functioning societies) to join the other 50 million assorted South Asians, West Indians and Africans who well be ourt new majority any time soon.

    How do you think that is going to work out?

  23. Your slip’s showing, SMFS
    Ideas are worth defending. Privilege (being White, Anglo Saxon and Protestant) isn’t.

  24. bloke in france – “Your slip’s showing, SMFS Ideas are worth defending. Privilege (being White, Anglo Saxon and Protestant) isn’t.”

    This is such a bad response I hardly know where to start. I should ignore the Student Trotism – I am not defending privilege, although actually I think privilege is entirely worth defending. I am defending the society that WASPs produce. I am defending the ideas behind it. Ideas which are, tragically, not transferable. Not even to people of substantially the same culture but of a different race.

    Nor is being a WASP even remotely a privilege. Britain was not great because people were mainly WASPs. Britain was great because its mainly WASP people made it great – and turned being a WASP from all but a synonym for being brutal and poor to being powerful and dominant. No one gave it to them. They earned it.

    Now perhaps I am wrong. It happens. But you have given a non-answer closer to something I would expect to see on CiF. So it ain’t proof I am wrong.

  25. Student Trot replies to SMFS
    This is such a bad response I hardly know where to start, you say.
    Try making the distinction between a principle and a person. That should give you a start.

  26. @ SMFS
    “Britain was great because its mainly WASP people”
    You really should have learned some simple arithmetic at school. WASPs are the largest minority in the UK, but, it is alleged, the reason why Elizabeth allowed Mary to be executed was that even then they were a minority. There were and are Anglo-Saxon Catholics, Celtic Protestants, Celtic Catholics, racial minorities and agnostics/atheists (with a few more variants added in the last 500 years). The only majority was WASCs prior to Henry VIII.

  27. bloke in france – “Try making the distinction between a principle and a person. That should give you a start.”

    You are clearly p!ssed by something I said but you have yet to point out what it is. I did not object to non-WASPs because they are non-WASPs. I object because they persistently refuse to adopt the mechanisms of a modern functioning liberal society. That is, it is their ideas I object to.

    No doubt this is an easier criticism for you to make than to think about what really offends you, but it is not relevant. I have not attacked any person.

    john77 – “You really should have learned some simple arithmetic at school. WASPs are the largest minority in the UK, but, it is alleged, the reason why Elizabeth allowed Mary to be executed was that even then they were a minority.”

    Oh FFS. As time wasting goes, this is pretty f**king time wasting. Yes, let’s all agree that when Britain was a poor, backward, agricultural society on the fringes of Europe it probably had a Catholic majority. Maybe even under Elizabeth I. Perhaps down to Cromwell. But at some point by the time of Victoria, Britain was a WASP nation. And a great Empire. That had invented pretty much the entire modern world.

    There is a reason that the Catholic Church in the Victorian period had to rebuild so much of its infrastructure. It is because before the massive Irish migration to the larger isle, there were so few Catholics left. That is why Westminster Cathedral opened in 1903. The Brompton Oratory in 1884. Even Downside only dates back (as a school, in the UK) to 1814.

  28. Jesus on distant hill: Blessed are the WASPs for they shall build an empire greater than the Roman Empire and introduce liberal ideals to the world.

    Roman Gentleman’s Old Girl: Oh that’s nice, cos they are only a minority.

    Roman Gentleman: Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any white inhabitants of the British Isles.

    Mr. Cheeky: See? If you hadn’t been going on, we’d have heard that, Big Nose.

    etc., etc.

  29. SMFS,

    I don’t disagree with your general point about the immigrants favored by Labour and their numbers. I’m just not convinced many Moldovans will be showing up.

  30. Tim Newman – “I don’t disagree with your general point about the immigrants favored by Labour and their numbers. I’m just not convinced many Moldovans will be showing up.”

    The Labour government told us no one was going to come last time. Millions did. Are you really suggesting all those girls in Moldava, and the rest of Romania, are going to sit there and choose to remain in Romania as the oft-beaten over-worked wife of some drunk or move to the UK and become the next Cheeky Girls?

    I mean there are not many countries that reward third rate talent and second rate looks with millions of pounds. Those places that do are likely to find themselves over run by third rate talents.

    The London City government estimates that Britain’s population will over take that of Russia within your lifetime. A lot of people think that many people will come.

  31. I just think it’s more likely that Moldovans will more likely go the Romania than the UK. For. Moldovans, Romania is the place they’ll be trying to get to, just as Tadjiks try to get to Russia. Just as Tadjiks don’t follow Russians to London, I am not sure Moldovans will follow Romanians to the UK.

    Also, times have changed…I don’t know about Romanians and Moldovans, but the number of Russian women who dream of an idyllic life in the west has diminished to a very small percentage of what it was 10 years ago. I think the fears of a flood of poor Romanian women into London might be outdated.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>