So, is this rape or not?

A man on trial for rape for allegedly refusing to wear a condom on the third time he had sex with a woman in a one-night stand has told the jury it was 100 per cent consensual.

Imomotimi Wilson, 30, met his alleged victim in a pub and she agreed to go back to his house but told him she would only have sex if he used protection.

They had consensual sex twice but on the third occasion claims that Wilson failed to use a condom.

The woman, a 40-year-old, said Wilson treated her ‘like a piece of meat’ as the alleged attack took place.

She said he held her hands over her head and told her ‘if you love me you’ll do it’ before raping her for 15-20 seconds.

But giving evidence at his trial at Cambridge Crown Court Wilson said ‘she said stop and that’s when I stopped’.

He said: ‘She said I feel like having sex again and I said “Yes, I feel like having sex with you as well again but there is no condom”.

‘She was romancing me, touching and kissing, and I said no, I do not want to do that because there is no condom.

‘She started kissing me again and then I penetrated her. I believed 100 per cent it was consensual.

‘Then she said stop and that’s when I stopped. There were three seconds of penetration.’

Interesting question, eh?

At one end of the argument we might have the loonies insisting that as it was penile penetration of the vagina then of course this was rape: for that always is. At the other we might have an unfortunate misunderstanding of consent. One quickly dealt with when the truth became apparent.

And the jury is going to say what do you think?

22 comments on “So, is this rape or not?

  1. The jury SHOULD apply the standards required in a criminal trial: ‘Beyond Reasonable Doubt’. Of course I couldn’t possibly say whether that has been passed here (bats eyes innocently, making it clear to the trial judge that he DOES NOT intend to show any contempt for his/her court.)

  2. Shades of Australia’s 30 Second Rapist. This man did not stop the very microsecond the woman demanded he stop. He took a moment. That is 15-20 seconds of rape.

    I expect he will get five years.

  3. It depends on what actually happened.

    If, as claimed, she allowed him in, then asked him to exit, and he did, it is not rape. If he pushed his way in and didn’t exit on request, it is rape. Previous intercourse is not an issue, nor previous statements of preference regarding condoms.

  4. You should phrase these things hypothetically and without a link (but clearly enough that we can identify the case) so we can comment without risk of being in contempt.

    I will say that I think one of the reasons the conviction rate for rape is so low is that so many cases that have only a very slender chance of securing conviction are prosecuted. I guess there is pressure to prosecute even the most wild and implausible complaints because rape is treated by the public as next to murder, rather than assault.

  5. Ian B – “It depends on what actually happened.”

    Well yes, but as a matter of practicality it depends on what the jury believes happened.

    “If, as claimed, she allowed him in, then asked him to exit, and he did, it is not rape.”

    The precedent, in a less than strictly legal sense, is Australia’s Thirty Second rapist – consentual sexual intercourse began. She said she changed her mind. It took him 30 seconds to realise, stop and withdraw. He got seven years. There is nothing in the British law that would suggest a different outcome here.

    “Previous intercourse is not an issue, nor previous statements of preference regarding condoms.”

    The condom issue is an interesting one. When does consent for one sexual act cover another sexual act? We would agree that consent to normal sex was not the same as consent to, say, anal intercourse. And if a man decided he was bored with one way and tried the other, without seeking further consent, I think a lot of people would consider that rape. If they agreed on a condom, does that count? It sounds like she preferred a condom, he said there was none, she kept on, they had sex. That seems to be an implied agreement to go without to me.

    bloke in germany – “I will say that I think one of the reasons the conviction rate for rape is so low is that so many cases that have only a very slender chance of securing conviction are prosecuted.”

    But virtually all cases have a slender chance of conviction these days. Because the violent stranger rapists are in decline. Porn and/or DNA testing has seen to that. Juries have fewer problems with those. What we are left with is acquaintence rape. Who wants to send a boyfriend to jail, ruining his life, because of a miscommunication?

    The solution would be to copy murder and have First, Second and even Third degree rape.

  6. BIG
    ‘I will say that I think one of the reasons the conviction rate for rape is so low is that so many cases that have only a very slender chance of securing conviction are prosecuted.’
    I think that the conviction rate for rape cases that go to court it actually quite high. Of course only a small fraction go to court but then that’s the case for crimes of violence as well. I’m pretty sure this has been raked over before.

  7. And if a man decided he was bored with one way and tried the other, without seeking further consent, I think a lot of people would consider that rape.

    The problem is that most of lovemaking is about implied consent, otherwise it would lose much of its spontaneity and fun. There have been occasional lists by PCers/Feminists published saying one must ask formal consent for every act; “may I kiss you?” “may I touch your breasts?” “may I touch your front bottom?” and so on, but this is not really feasible or desirable.

    So we are left with some kind of personal process of indicating that the act that has been initiated by the partner is not desired, and please stop. No, I don’t want your finger up my bum just because you read that men like it Cosmo, love. Please desist. Etc.

  8. Ian B – “No, I don’t want your finger up my bum just because you read that men like it Cosmo, love. Please desist. Etc.”

    So …. you didn’t play rugby at school then?

    Yes we need a way to communicate better. But the law doesn’t seem to allow for that. There was penetration. She withdrew consent, if it was ever given. He took a little while to stop. Let’s see if the jury has an ounce of common sense.

    I like her complaint that he treated her like a piece of meat. She is 40. He is a 30 year old piece of rough. African rough too by the looks of it. I don’t think she was the one being treated like a piece of meat.

    But still, condoms should have been consistently used. There are three main ways to get HIV in Britain. Having sex with Africans is one of them.

  9. ‘So …. you didn’t play rugby at school then?’

    I did, and I don’t like that either.

    ‘But still, condoms should have been consistently used. There are three main ways to get HIV in Britain. Having sex with Africans is one of them.’

    You’ve hardly written a truer word.

    A friend of mine recently prosecuted a Zimbabwean who had AIDS, knew it, was extremely lax about his treatment, and eventually decided that he would pass it on to as many women as he could as an inchoate means of getting back at the world. It’s not fair I got it, and they haven’t.

    Passed it on to several women, including one who was pregnant. Was done for GBH.

    Has been here for a decade, during which time he has never worked, cost a great deal in medical treatment (when he could be bothered), has a council flat, and now has created a number of other HIV-pos people.

    And now he’s costing us to keep him in jail. Oh, and he couldn’t be named or identified so when he gets out in a year or so…

    I’m pro immigration, but…

  10. bloke in germany,

    I will say that I think one of the reasons the conviction rate for rape is so low is that so many cases that have only a very slender chance of securing conviction are prosecuted.

    Eddy,

    I think that the conviction rate for rape cases that go to court it actually quite high. Of course only a small fraction go to court but then that’s the case for crimes of violence as well. I’m pretty sure this has been raked over before.

    Conventionally, a conviction rate is the ratio of convictions to prosecutions. Unfortunately some people have confused this in terms of rape by using the ratio of convictions to reports but this is actually the attrition rate. So we would see for example ‘conviction rates’ of say 55% for murder compared to say 6% for rape – comparing apples and oranges. Also, a report of rape might not result in a conviction of rape but might result in a conviction of a lesser offence, e.g. sexual assault.

    For comparison, in the year that the attrition rate (what people were saying was the conviction rate) for rape was 6.5%, the attrition rate for robbery was 10%, cruelty and neglect to children 9%, and violence against the person 4%.

    In England and Wales the conviction rate for rape is a little higher than it is for other crimes (63% for 2012/13 iirc) but this doesn’t tell us much because the CPS (prosecuting authority for jurisdiction of England and Wales) won’t prosecute if there isn’t a reasonable prospect of conviction, i.e. they will prosecute (assuming it meets the public interest test) if a conviction is more likely than not or if you want to pin a number on it a 51% likelihood. So you would expect conviction rates to be around 51% or higher, purely going by the prosecutor’s policy.

    Problem is that it’s a complicated and emotive topic, historically speaking the police haven’t done good work and of course on many occasions this will ultimately come down to one person’s word against another’s.

  11. The test is whether he had a reasonable belief that she was consenting. The Daily Mail account suggests that he did, but I have no confidence in the Daily Mail.

    …he couldn’t be named or identified…

    Why not? It’s normal to name the accused in such cases.

  12. Ian B,

    The problem is that most of lovemaking is about implied consent, otherwise it would lose much of its spontaneity and fun. There have been occasional lists by PCers/Feminists published saying one must ask formal consent for every act; “may I kiss you?” “may I touch your breasts?” “may I touch your front bottom?” and so on, but this is not really feasible or desirable.

    In any sensible legal system, i.e. one that hasn’t had the feminists shouting about rape conviction rates this case would never have gotten to court. A police officer would have said “right, so you fooled around with him, he warned you he didn’t have a condom, you continued and then you’re surprised that he penetrated you?”.

  13. ‘Why not? It’s normal to name the accused in such cases.’

    It depends on the allegations, who is affected, who the witnesses are, and whether they need protection (of their identity). I won’t be more specific than that for obvious reasons.

  14. It would seem wise to carry a stack of consent forms to be signed off by the female partner every few seconds or so that she is still consenting.

  15. “‘She was romancing me, touching and kissing, and I said no, I do not want to do that because there is no condom.”

    Sounds like sexual assault to me…

    What happens if the man withdraws consent part way through? Is it different?

  16. We, esp men, desperately need classes or degrees of rape with associated punishments.

    This class might be called “Simon says” rape for those cases where he has good reason to proceed but she didn’t say “Simon says proceed.” And the “Simon says” punishment, if convicted, is the victim is to never go out w/ the defendant again. The defendant can plead Nolo contendere to avoid trial w/ stipulation he will never see her again.

    The next level is “You can’t touch this” rape for which the punishment is the victim gets to slap the defendant. This, of course is a higher level infraction, so the higher level punishment.

  17. Interested – “A friend of mine recently prosecuted a Zimbabwean who had AIDS, knew it, was extremely lax about his treatment, and eventually decided that he would pass it on to as many women as he could as an inchoate means of getting back at the world. It’s not fair I got it, and they haven’t.”

    The former lover of a friend of mine was from an immigrant background. He was married in his home country but became Gay leading to him immigrating. He then caught HIV. Which he, last I heard, was trying to spread as far and as wide as possible on the ground that these bast@rd White people had ruined his life by teaching him to be Gay and then giving him HIV.

    Not in jail though.

    Neil Craig – “Just met in a pub. One night stand. “If you love me you’ll do it”. Riight.”

    You cynical brute you, don’t you know it is always Twwuuu Wuuuv?

    The Stigler – “In any sensible legal system, i.e. one that hasn’t had the feminists shouting about rape conviction rates this case would never have gotten to court.”

    Insane media persecution means doctors have to practice defensive medicine and I bet that policemen have to engage in defensive prosecutions. They might know this is stupid, but they don’t want to appear in front of Jeremy Paxman being told they are racist, homophobic sexists. So they are wasting everyone’s time.

    John B – “It would seem wise to carry a stack of consent forms to be signed off by the female partner every few seconds or so that she is still consenting.”

    A couple of Americans have got off because they or one of their friends video taped it on their mobiles. It is probably illegal in Britain but I think that more people should do it anyway. The consequences are less severe.

  18. We had another odd case around here a few years ago.

    Woman A was charged with rape of Woman B (she was convicted of many counts, including sexual battery but not rape, and got 7-to-life).

    Woman B had stolen drugs from Woman A, and hidden them in her vagina. The charge was based on Woman A retrieving those drugs with her fingers.

    A rather expansive definition, no?

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