13 comments on “Timmy elsewhere

  1. Given that Polly has never been right about ANYTHING whatsoever and yet blithely continues to parrot her obsessions – all of which have been debunked so often that it is tedious to do so again – she is unlikely to be at all concerned. The one thing that Polly does well is to ignore evidence.

  2. As I think Polly could tell you, the neoiberal conspiracy starts in the creche and the kindergarten. Our minds are warped before we ever get anywhere near a newspaper.

    I personally am now a neoliberal zombie, following my leader Rupert’s instructions blindly.

  3. On ther other hand it is a fact that amongst UK newspapers the Mail came out against the Iraq war forst and hardest.
    Why? Because it recognised UK public sentiment on foreign interventions a decade before it dawned on our politicians.
    Why? Because it knows its readers.

  4. Daily Mail and foreign interventions

    ok, going way off topic…:)

    For me, there is a massive difference between defence – and which included the Falklands, and Kuwait in the sense that it was an ex protectorate calling for help – and the ghastly Blair (and his followers) with his “progressive interventionism”, which too often meant sticking your ugly nose in where it wasn’t welcome.

    The first is (very loosely) defending your own sovereign interests, the second is interfering in someone else’s sovereign interests.

    Even Afghanistan, first time round, was invoking NATO’s Article 5, and hence determined to be an act of self defence.

    Bit simplistic I know, but the broad distinction is crucial; and I suspect most British people are perfectly comfortable with the former whilst firmly against the latter.

  5. there has never been any research conducted anywhere that shows that newspapers drive the views of their readers, every single piece of research shows (as this does) that the opposite applies. As Tim says, newspapers reflect their readers’ views and when a new issue comes along they have to second-guess which line to take. If they get it wrong then the skilled editors will swiftly change the stance or risk losing readership, and as we all know the sole purpose of papers is not the conveying of information, it’s the selling of advertising.

  6. Yah, but the American Economy Association is obviously just another apologist running-dog lackey for the neoliberal capitalist neoconservative baby-eating bastard military-industrial-newspaper complex global 1% ownership-class oppressor.

  7. All this talk on the Left of “neoliberal ideology”. What books and pamphlets are/were NATO soldiers expected to read on the subject? We know that Ostblok soldiers were expected to read certain works of Communist theory, so what were the equivalent works for Western soldiers?

    Enquiring minds need to know and all that

  8. “Survive to Fight”, “On War”, and the “Indifferent Alcoholics Guide to the Beers of Germany”.

  9. Polly is kept on as a well paid columnist precisely because her bosses know that she reflects the views of a large proportion of her readership, not because her ultimate bosses think she has a brain. That’s not important.

    ‘All right thinking people agree with me and the news of this is kept out of the media by a conspiracy’.

    I’d venture that other columnists for exactly the same reasons – they are as batshit crazy as their readers.

    Peter Hitchens now… have no idea why he’s kept on and great respect to the Mail on Sunday for doing so.

  10. There is a stark example here in Australia. News Corp, despite owning about one third of newspapers, accounts for about two thirds of newspaper sales because it clearly supplies what its readers want. The left wing Fairfax Group is bleeding to death because there are not enough people willing to pay to read a leftish perspective on life.

    During the nightmare of the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years, there were calls for media regulation because News Corp “owns” two thirds of papers, despite the fact that the largest media organisation in Australia is by far and away the unashamedly left wing ABC.

  11. There’s a simple way of testing the theory. Swap the content of the Mail and Guardian and see what happens to the readership.

    My guess is it will take less than 24 hours for the heart attack survivors to swap to the one that reflects their views.

  12. @Bloke with a Boat:

    History has already done an effective test.

    The circulation of Neues Deutschland was 1m prior to the Wall coming down and it’s now less than 50k.

    True, there has been a general decline in newspaper readership but not of a 95% order of magnitude.

  13. But Polly Toynbee will not be annoyed that you continue to big her up as a representative of the Far Left because the Left has not forgiven her for her support of the Social Democrat Party in the 80’s which she has not really disavowed > See her “Some SDP thinking might strengthen Labour’s Nerve” (2011).
    Her sustained attack on the 1983 Labour Manifesto ,which she helped turn into a Stalinist laughing-stock electorally , remains an issue, since, in retrospect, it got much more right than wrong in ways which would have avoided the present mess .

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