Oh dear Dave, you’re not understanding things at all

He said that Ukip would “build fortress Britain” and “give up on the world” while the Conservatives would negotiate for the reform of the European Union before offering the public a referendum.

We actually argue that we should leave the EU so that we can have free trade with the entire globe.

And you know this so you’re lying, aren’t you?

30 comments on “Oh dear Dave, you’re not understanding things at all

  1. Ferrously challenged Dave telling porkies pies surely shum mistake. UKIP has put the shits up the Liblabcon, nice to see them squirm.

  2. Let’s face it, without the EU the UK is such a tiny, insignificant country that it could never negotiate a free trade agreement with China like that economic powerhouse, New Zealand……

  3. I would prefer reform of the EU to leaving it.

    However, I have not noticed any signs of the Tories starting negotiations since they took office.

  4. Can you have free trade with the entire globe?

    If you get free trade with Cuba, will the US give you free trade? If you get free trade with the US, will the EU give you free trade?

    UKIP seems to think it can have a one-sided relationship with the entire world. It’s seriously mistaken in that view.

    Tim adds: We can have unilateral free trade with absolutely anyone we like. You know, unilaterally.

  5. @BiG: on the basis that BMW (and Mercedes, and VW etc etc) would be quite keen on still being able to sell its cars to the 70m people in the UK (one fifth of the population of Europe and still in the 10 ten largest world economies), yes I suggest that an independent UK could negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU, whether or not it had any similar agreements with the US, China or whoever.

    As for Cuba, I mean seriously. If thats the best argument for staying in the EU, that if we were independent we couldn’t have a free trade agreement with Cuba AND the USA, then I think you’re scraping the barrel a bit.

  6. Actually my belief in free trade is one of the reasons I can’t vote UKIP. You see, the UKIP deputy leader, MEP and Bootle skinhead Paul Nuttall has called for foreign firms to be barred from tendering to replace Merseyrail rolling here in Liverpool. That isn’t free trade; it is Fortress Britain.

    So Nigel Farage is on to a loser if his own deputy takes his economic lessons from Colin Hines and Richard Murphy (Yes, I know what Farage himmself thinks and I agree with him).

    I’m trying to get the socialists out of Liverpool; not invite them in.

  7. I think free trade agreements between two states are commonly called bilateral free trade agreements, Tim.

  8. Tim adds: We can have unilateral free trade with absolutely anyone we like. You know, unilaterally.

    I think you mean bilateral, Tim.

  9. Agreed we can have unilateral – i.e. the BritGov is free to set all import duties from all countries at zero. Meanwhile in the real world, trade is regrettably subject to politics. Cuba was used not as some argument for the EU, rather because trade with Cuba is politically sensitive. Free-trade with Cuba and the USA will probably not free-trade with you. So the ideologically-sound zero-tarrif policy ends up causing more damage than good.

  10. In many respects UKIP are, of course, a bunch of jokers but they are the only option to frighten the current cartel out of its smug condescending complacency.

    The final straw (following other final straws) – a Conservative government wanting HMRC to plunder the bank a/c of whoever the fuck they like – sorry, of those it decides owes them money.

    Could a conservative please explain the difference between them and Labour?

  11. If I vote UKIP, I might let Labour in.

    But I think of it as deferred gratification.

    UKIP need to get 10% in 2015 so they can then get 25% in 2020.

    I’ve accepted that a Labour government might be the price I have to pay in the short-term to accomplish that.

  12. Ivor

    Given that half of all Ukip voters at the upcoming euro elections will be over 65, what deferred gratification?

    Sorry, I’m not a fan of the pinko bollocks Cameron talks either, but I either vote Conservative or I get Labour.

  13. “Could a conservative please explain the difference between them and Labour?”

    Surely the difference is that Labour didn’t pass a law giving HMRC redress-free crown immunity-protected access to your readies.

  14. O noes, not Labour!

    They’ll do… more or less exactly what the Tories do. But with red ties. Red, I tell you! We’d better all vote for Kang to stop Kodos getting in!

    Anyway, is it just me or does Fortress Britain sound awesome? We could have flying aircraft carriers launching laser-armed Spitfires at the frogs and whatnot.

    Judge Dredd would prowl MegaCity London meting out justice with his iron fists.

    Grange Hill would be back on the telly, and we’d all be using ZX Spectrums instead of poncey foreign computers.

    I’ll take one Fortress Britain, please.

  15. @ MC

    I would prefer reform of the EU to leaving it.

    The kind of reform of the EU that is needed is simply not (and never will be) on offer.

    Dave knows this, we all know this, hence his position on “gaining reform” is nothing more than a farce. More and more people are seeing through his deception.

  16. @ Rob

    “The final straw (following other final straws) – a Conservative government wanting HMRC to plunder the bank a/c of whoever the fuck they like – sorry, of those it decides owes them money.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10818323/Taxman-has-power-to-raid-your-bank-accounts.html

    Osborne (a Conservative..!?) clearly really does want this:

    “We will give HMRC modern powers to collect debts from bank accounts of people who can afford to pay but have repeatedly refused to, like most other Western countries,” he said. By Western, I presume he meant “EU” (clue).

    Who in their right mind would give this kind of unfettered power to an organisation as inept as HMRC. As I understand it currently, HMRC simply has to persuade a judge / court, and they can collect money that is due. Which is fine, there is a proper control is place.

    But to allow tax collectors, with both targets and their failing IT and communication systems, to be both judge and jury themselves – this is utter madness.

  17. Ironman – “I’m trying to get the socialists out of Liverpool; not invite them in.”

    Good luck with that.

    You might as well try to get Glasgwegians to stop drinking. Or Brummies to stop sounding hilarious. Or people from NornIron to stop their shenanigans.

    Liverpool is just a rubbish knock-off of Glasgow anyway. I say we nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure A Flock of Seagulls don’t make a comeback.

  18. Ironman,

    “Sorry, I’m not a fan of the pinko bollocks Cameron talks either, but I either vote Conservative or I get Labour.”

    Which means you’ll keep getting pinko bollocks.

    There’s really nothing about Cameron and the Tories that I find so much more attractive that I’ll tactically vote for them over my preferred choice. And I’ve felt that way ever since he protested about chocolate oranges. He didn’t stop there. He joined in the chorus attacking Starbucks rather than defending a company that was following the law. He’s recently joined in the ridiculous campaign against high school holiday prices. His views are either those of someone with a socialist mindset, or of an appeaser to socialism.

    So, yes, Labour may be a little bit worse. But the Tories will tear themselves apart and either rebuild themselves as a serious party or face UKIP destroying them again.

  19. PF –

    “The kind of reform of the EU that is needed is simply not (and never will be) on offer.

    Dave knows this, we all know this, hence his position on “gaining reform” is nothing more than a farce. More and more people are seeing through his deception.”

    We were told the Common Market was a trade club. That is all the British people ever wanted out of Europe.

    Turns out trade was just the bait in the EU bait and switch.

    We – Joe Public – didn’t sign up for the dissolution of our nation state, vast uncontrolled immigration, a wheen of regulations to micromanage our lifestyle choices, being part of an EU military, or the single currency – which we’d have been forced into had Gordon Brown not put the kibosh on it.

    We will never, ever, ever get what we want from the EU while we’re a member. Our desire for national sovereignty and their commitment to Euro federalism are directly and irreconcilably opposed.

    Despite all evidence to the contrary, David Cameron isn’t a stupid man. He’s just a shameless liar. The political establishment wants to stay on the Euro gravy train and they’ll tell us little people whatever they think we want to hear while selling us down the Channel Tunnel.

    Only the threat of losing their position will potentially change their minds.

  20. @ Ironman

    What the The Stigler said. Strategy vs tactics and all that.

    If people actually want to vote for the Cameroonies, fine, but they might as well vote for Clegg; at least he might actually say no (unlike Cameron/May) to things like the Snooper’s Charter.

    Increasingly, I am not sure what the point of Cameron is?

  21. @ Steve

    Only the threat of losing their position will potentially change their minds.

    I agree with everything you said above apart from that!

    I don’t believe they have any intention of changing their minds. Further attempts at deception will come far more easily to them!

  22. If lying and talking shite used up as much energy as running Camoron would have died from exhaustion about three years ago.

  23. PF – most likely.

    Dave Cameron will likely expect a peerage or a sinecure on the EU Commission after he’s kicked out of office. Failing that he’ll waltz into a few non-exec directorships and get paid a fortune.

    But some the less pecunious and well connected Conservative backbenchers are starting to see reason on the EU now that UKIP are roasting their nuts over a fire.

  24. What gets me about the EU debate is that we are repeatedly told that if we left, we would be harshly treated by the EU for leaving. So what you are saying is that they are spiteful bastards. It’s a bit like having your hair grabbed and being told, “if you don’t struggle, it won’t hurt” How about not having your hair grabbed in the first place?

  25. @Steve, I think you’ll find that a slight majority of that immigration, and especially the immigration of, shall we say to skirt the issue of political correctness, those with a mutually incompatible culture and religion of peace that must be imposed on us, is very much the purview of Westminster.

    Sure, being in the EU you can’t stop Poles, Swedes, Spaniards and Latvians moving to the UK, but lots of UKites move to those places too and it’s really not so foreign as to be any kind of problem. Very different picture with the one-way tsunami of migration from Goatfuckistan which Westminster could put a stop to tomorrow if they wanted to.

  26. PF: “Increasingly, I am not sure what the point of Cameron is?”.

    Time to revive Private Eye’s cartoon series, “101 uses for a John Major”?

  27. Bloke in Germany – I don’t know the stats but you’re right that we get mass immigration because Westminster wants mass immigration.

    I don’t think leaving the EU is a panacea, but it’s a huge step in the right direction of rooting out the entrenched leftism in our corridors of power. I see the EU, HM Government, the BBC, the senior civil service and the megacharities as like routers on a network or legs on a table. Take one out, and the system won’t necessarily collapse but it will be put under additional strain.

    The EU provides a lot of cover to our elites by providing an excuse for doing things that they want to do anyway, but daren’t risk putting to the electorate. I want them to have fewer places to hide.

    I’ve nothing against Eastern Europeans, but I quite like Britain being British. I don’t want my kids to have to struggle to pick up scraps of learning in a classroom which is a multicultural Tower of Babel. I’d rather not have neighbours who live 20 to a house and barely speak English. We’ve had enough immigration over the past 20 years to last us a lifetime.

  28. Surely a lot depends on what sort of cameroon government you get.

    While Cameron is clearly either an idiot or worse, he currently has cover for much of the stuff he does/doesn’t do in the form of Clegg.

    Re-elect the man with a majority of say 10, and UKIP holding his backbenchers feet to the fire, and all of a sudden Bill Cash, Peter Bone, John Redwood and others of the more sane ilk will have just as much control on the situation as “Call me Dave” – when they say jump, hes going to have to aim for the stars…

    I’m a kipper at heart (of the libaterian type), but living in a tight Tory/Lab marginal, and with a fairly sane backbencher as the current incumbent, it’s going to have to be a tactical Tory vote at the GE.

  29. What gets me about the EU debate is that we are repeatedly told that if we left, we would be harshly treated by the EU for leaving. So what you are saying is that they are spiteful bastards. It’s a bit like having your hair grabbed and being told, “if you don’t struggle, it won’t hurt” How about not having your hair grabbed in the first place?

    Which is why it is not enough to liberate any one country from its grip. It must be destroyed completely, and the inherently totalitarian notion of supranational government thrown on the ash heap of history.

  30. The elected politicians have very little control over the government. The government wants the power to take money at will and they would have got it regardless of who was prime minister. Similarly, they also want to stay in the club of other like minded governments because that amplifies their power. They will get that too, most likely.

    All you really elect is a PR team. What was Dave’s last job again?

    @Steve

    Throw in Dan Dare and you’ve got me.

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