30 comments on “On the subject of Mr MacShane and child rape

  1. The problem is, everyone was walking on eggshells because the allegation came from Nick Griffin alongside a load of nakedly racist tripe. The chances are it’s just a coincidence that Griffin’s lie turned out to be true.

  2. @ Dave
    Are you for real? “lie turned out to be true.” belongs in “1984”
    If Ken Livingstone, a proven cheat and liar, says something I am automatically sceptical but if it is important I check it out in case it is true.
    More importantly, many victims were reporting the crimes to the police in the Peoples Republic of South Yorkshire but got no more response than the Liverpool fans.

  3. John>

    No, if Nick Griffin was telling lies, and it just so happened that one of them turned out to be true, that has nothing to do with 1984.

    It’s still shocking that the police did nothing, although you don’t need to look at racism for an answer given that doing nothing is the police’s main aim in life, but it’s not at all surprising that no-one else believed there was a problem when Griffin was the voice shouting about it.

    Of course Griffin knew that full well. He could care less about the kiddies as long as he managed to make his vile political capital out of it.

  4. @ Dave
    If one them turned out to be true, it was not a lie.
    I thoroughly dislike Nick Griffin (to say “hate” would be too dignifying to him) although we have never met.
    The Rotheram scandal ran for more than a dozen years – to try to excuse the local Labour Party because part-way through Nick Griffin made a true statement (whether or not he knew or even imagined it might be true) makes *you* a condoner of the outrageous behaviour and complicit in gang rape.
    If you do not think that you condone gang rape of children, then you need to change your view that any statement by the odious Nick Griffin musty be rejected without checking it.

  5. John>

    You can argue semantics if you like. Griffin thought it was a lie when he said it. The rest of your post makes no sense at all, so I won’t bother responding to it further.

  6. @ Dave
    So you can read minds? And time travel to do so several years in the past?
    Has no-one explained to you that “Doctor Who” is fiction?
    All of my post makes sense.
    So you are lying to avoid condemning Rotheram Labour Party’s condoning gang rape of children

  7. “Nobody came to me” says McShane–What fucking for?.So ZaNuLab could denounce them as waycists and BNP supporters?.

  8. Dave,

    You’ve lost all contact with reality if you think that Nick Griffin is racist. The Labour and Tory parties took part in the slaughter of a million Muslims in Iraq for no good reason. In contrast, the BNP opposed the war from day one.

    Compared to that, the BNP’s central policy, advocacy of much tighter immigration controls, is as racist as Julie Andrews in Sound of Music.

  9. “The problem is, everyone was walking on eggshells because the allegation came from Nick Griffin alongside a load of nakedly racist tripe. The chances are it’s just a coincidence that Griffin’s lie turned out to be true.”

    Dave, your problem is that the allegation did NOT come from Nick Griffin, it first came from Times journalist Andrew Norfolk in 2003. True, Griffin picked up on it but unless you’re trying to argue that Andrew Norfolk made a “lucky racist guess” all you seem to be doing is trying to create a flimsy excuse for the inaction that followed.

    If Griffin picked up on the allegation for the ‘wrong’ reasons, maybe you should be asking why others did not pick up on it for the ‘right’ reasons.

  10. There were multiple allegations from various entities and a multiplicity of failures by various entities that led to the present report. To point the finger at any one entity or failure is to miss the points made by the 153 page report, which is freely available to read for yourself if you think second- and third-hand accounts of what it says are inadequate to understand what it says. At the very least read the executive summary, just two pages long.

  11. @John77: the Macpherson report, you must have heard of it. The one that stated that any action that was considered by the victim to be racist in motivation was de facto therefore a racist action? That accused the police of institutional racism? It was published in 1999, so slap bang in the middle of all this. Any policeman who fancied getting anywhere on the promotion ladder would have taken one look at the ‘Ooh look, loads of Muslims are involved in something dodgy’ accusations and run a mile in the opposite direction.Utterly wrong of course, but rather understandable given the time and political atmosphere that existed then. Any policeman who stuck his head above the parapet to investigate all this would have had it shot off in short order by the political establishment. New Labour were the new bosses remember and they didn’t want anyone showing up their multicultural paradise for the cess pit it was.

  12. Jim,

    That rather supports the notion that coppers are useless, self-serving bastards rather than in the force to serve the public.

  13. That rather supports the notion that coppers are useless, self-serving bastards rather than in the force to serve the public.

    Or (to play devils advocate) that the coppers had the common sense to take the long term view that they could do more good if they stayed on the force and helped people instead of being sacrificed on the New Labour altar to multicultural paradise happiness with everybody holding hands, smiling, laughter, rainbows and kittens.

    Not saying it’s right, but getting shot down without making a difference doesn’t help anyone.

  14. And, Jim, the Muslims weren’t doing something “dodgy”, they were raping and abusing young girls and messing up their lives. It is neither understandable nor acceptable that coppers would have put their careers before the welfare of those young girls. I’d rather give up my career and be able to sleep at night.

    Wasp,

    What good in the future is likely to trump protecting 1400 young girls? The South Yorkshire police have form for being useless, self-serving, lying bastards.

  15. Jim,

    The one that stated that any action that was considered by the victim to be racist in motivation was de facto therefore a racist action? That accused the police of institutional racism? It was published in 1999, so slap bang in the middle of all this. Any policeman who fancied getting anywhere on the promotion ladder would have taken one look at the ‘Ooh look, loads of Muslims are involved in something dodgy’ accusations and run a mile in the opposite direction.

    In what sense do you consider the Rotherham perpetrators of child abuse the victims? If you do not consider them the victims, your comment seems to be nonsense.

    But it was perhaps useful of you to raise the McPherson report, as in that we see a theme common to the Rotherham report and other reports: those in authority failing to appropriately deal with reports of criminal offences.

  16. What good in the future is likely to trump protecting 1400 young girls?

    Stopping a terrorist attack which could kill hundreds, Or maybe even tens of people depending on how loss of life is weighted against abuse.
    How about what you were saying – putting their careers first? I’m sure some of them need their career to provide life’s luxuries for their families like food and shelter.

    I’m not saying that what they did was right, but I can definitely understand why a low ranking copper wouldn’t rock the boat. I hope I never have to deal with that question in reality, I’m not sure I could do the “right” thing if it meant risking my family’s wellbeing. Is it doing the right thing to put strangers before family?
    I’ve sort of wandered there, was just allowing my thoughts to go where they wanted.
    Anyway, the higher ranking officers in this case should all be begging forgiveness – or shot. Up in court anyway…

  17. From a 2013 Commons Select Committee on Child Sexual Exploitation, Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council giving evidence:

    8. Did Denis MacShane, whilst he was still MP for Rotherham, contact you to request a report on the issue of localised grooming in the area? If yes, please provide us with a copy of that report.

    Denis MacShane did not contact us to request a report in relation to localised grooming therefore there is no report to provide.

  18. @DocBud: I described what was going on as ‘dodgy’ on the basis of what it would look like then, not now. Now we know what was going on, crimes of a heinous nature, then there was a lot of allegation, conjecture etc. Something was obviously up, and investigations needed to be made to discover exactly what. But they weren’t. Hence to a copper looking in, ‘dodgy’ goings on.

    @ukliberty: of course the girls were the victims and Muslims the criminals. But given the atmosphere regarding the police and race at the time, if plod had gone steaming in and arrested god knows how many Muslims, the usual idiots would have hit the roof, screamed racism to the high heaven, as would those arrested, using the Macpherson report as evidence the police were out to get ethnic minorities etc etc. The whole thing would have become a PC ‘issue’ and there’s a good chance everything would have been dropped, those arrested given big pay offs, and possibly ended up in the House of Lords, who knows.

    You might fancy taking on the might of the PC Establishment arrayed against you, I certainly don’t. And despite the moral issues I don’t really blame any junior plod for avoiding the issue like the plague. If the senior ranks (and I mean right at the top) knew then they should have done something, and should be held to account now, because they had enough political clout to survive the fall out. Ordinary bog standard officers would have been crucified. Ditto on the ground social workers. Its the ones who had the power to do something and either ignored it or actively suppressed it who need to be strung up right now.

  19. Either we pay people to provide protection for the innocent or we don’t. Either people accept payment to protect the innocent or they don’t. How completely fucked up are we that there are those who excuse cowardly, self-interested dereliction of duty that resulted in the most despicable crimes against young girls from those who accept money to provide protection.

    Wasp, get over yourself, you utter twat. Like any dumb-arsed plod who will always be a dumb-arsed plod calculated that he or she should turn a blind eye to child rape because they might be able to prevent a terrorist act in the future. They did what they did because they are craven cowards who are happy to take money off the taxpayer but expect an easy life with no grief. Senior plod or junior plod, they should all be fired and lose their pensions.

  20. Jim,
    “All the senior officers we interviewed were asked whether ethnic considerations influenced their decision making. All were unequivocal that this did not happen. … The Inquiry team was confident that ethnic issues did not influence professional decision-making in individual cases.” (page 93)

    The report says that the concern about ethnicity and being seen to not be racist was in terms of public discussion, not in enforcing the law.

  21. Yes, senior plod is really going to admit to an official inquiry ‘Yes I swept this under the carpet because I was afraid to investigate serious crimes committed by ethnic minorities’, and put himself in the position of having virtually the entire country wanting him swinging from a lamp post.

  22. That rather supports the notion that coppers are useless, self-serving bastards rather than in the force to serve the public.

    Ding ding ding ding ding! At least, it increasingly seems to be the case here in the US.

  23. This heartfelt and candid statement from Denis MacShane is to be welcomed. Denis, whom I am proud to call a friend, not to mention colleague and political mentor, is a man of unimpeachable integrity and lapidary rectitude.

    Despite being unjustly imprisoned for a simple accounting error Denis has never complained about having to share accommodation (and even dining rooms!) in Belmarsh with ordinary members of the public. Clearly his campaign for better spa facilities and comprehensive secretarial assistance in dedicated detention centres for MPs and other public servants who – through no fault of their own- may have been misled into minor peculation, is wholly disinterested.

    I am aware of the slurs against this upstanding man. Oily toe rag, hypocritical careerist, common thief, etc. But that is not the Denis I know and admire.

    The Denis I know is assiduous in his devotion to the care and resettlement of offenders (the former Mrs Chris Huhne) and his Nelsonian attention to paedophilia, rape, blackmail and pimping in his constituency in the cause of anti-racism and community cohesion.

    There is an old Muslim saying: “Let he that is without sin cast the first stone.” If such be the case, and after due consideration by the authorities and the enquiries that should properly follow, such duties should devolve to the steadfast and zealous public servants of Giro-therham.

    Sadly Parliament has lost a distinguished member who could always be relied on to troop through the Aye lobby in support of illegal wars. Where Parliament has lost an ornament, I hope Brussels will, in due course, find an adornment.

  24. Still it sounds like you approve of ‘hate crime’ laws.
    Inevitably this will enable the ruling people to replace whoever they want. Patriotism is anathema to them.

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