16 comments on “Timmy elsewhere

  1. The real giveaway to these people’s attitude was when the RSPB decided that people ought to shoot magpies.

  2. Those who resist will be rounded up and placed in Population Matters concentration camps, their houses bulldozed and the land returned to nature.

  3. Tim,
    Read the article again
    “he urged everyone to act.”
    No compulsion just asking, you are free to ignore him.
    Although I try to make my little garden a haven for wildlife (although when I go on holiday my parents try to undo it as much as possible).

  4. Isn’t he one of those loonies who want most of the human race exterminated and the population reduced to a ‘sustainable’ level of under a billion? This is small beer in comparison.

  5. I’m with commented David on this one: Attenborough is merely politely requesting this, he’s not advocating an army of local council spies threatening to measure the square footage of wildlife space in your garden.

  6. David and Andrew are right, although I’d probably avoid the rhetorical “must” if I were making a political speech aimed at voluntary action.

  7. Well. If it were some ordinary joe coming out with this we might be able to dismiss it as somebody’s opinion who we can freely ignore.

    But Attenborough is as much a part of the ruling establishment as the BBC, “charities”, NGOs, etc. who make announcements for an audience of politicians, not for us oiks. Give it a week and we’ll learn he has been in “discussions” with some government department or other and his comments are being cited as the basis of some new policy.

  8. I thought his speech was brilliant. More environmentalism like this, please.

    Tim W,

    Do please point out this nationalisation or theft. I don’t see either. I think you’re hallucinating.

    Rob,

    > Isn’t he one of those loonies who want most of the human race exterminated

    No.

    Tim N,

    > Give it a week and we’ll learn he has been in “discussions” with some government department or other and his comments are being cited as the basis of some new policy.

    OK, I’ll give it a week. Bet you’re wrong.

  9. Andrew M
    September 4, 2014 at 10:05 am

    I’m with commented David on this one: Attenborough is merely politely requesting this, he’s not advocating an army of local council spies threatening to measure the square footage of wildlife space in your garden.

    And we have plenty of evidence that when people ignore the voluntary it very soon becomes compulsory, in their own interests of course.

    David Attenborough:

    “The dangers facing the Earth’s ecosystems are well known and the subject of great concern at all levels. Climate change is high on the list. But there is an underlying and associated cause — population growth.

    Indeed, in Sir David Attenborough’s view, there is no major problem facing our planet that would not be easier to solve if there were fewer people and no problem that does not become harder — and ultimately impossible to solve — with ever more. And yet there seems to be a taboo on bringing the subject into the open.”

    http://www.populationmatters.org/attenborough-talk/

  10. It is not true to state that someone who thinks having a smaller population would be useful wishes to exterminate people. The world is (ironically) full of people who would like to see a smaller population for various reasons, and they’re not all lefties. Indeed, the argument between the Left and Right on this issue is usually about what kind of intervention, if any, is required — the Right claim, correctly, that family sizes automatically decrease when people get wealthier, so Capitalism will reduce population size without any active policy required; the Left tend to want a specific population policy. Saying that all sorts of problems — especially environmental ones — become easier to solve for a smaller population seems like a banally obvious statement to me.

    But Attenborough is not one of the crazies who wants Man wiped from the planet or the environment preserved in aspic. He is generally enthusiastic about the interaction between humans and wildlife and the adoption by wildlife of new artifical environments — foxes in urban areas, for instance. And, in this very speech that’s got you and Tim so incensed, he’s saying that Climate Change has its upside as it will introduce new species to the UK and we should welcome that.

    UKIP seem to want a slightly smaller population for the UK. And I voted for them.

  11. Oh, and….

    > And we have plenty of evidence that when people ignore the voluntary it very soon becomes compulsory, in their own interests of course.

    Do you have evidence of people being forced to do stuff by David Attenborough?

  12. I’m a contrarian: I think if we can defeat, or at least neuter, the misanthropic Left then the world will be perfectly OK with 15 or 20 billion people*. And if you regard people as ends rather than means then that’s just fine.

    * not that it’s likely to get there soon, or ever.

  13. From the same report, on the same conference:

    The conference, which attracted politicians from all parties, heard shadow minister for natural environment and fisheries, Barry Gardiner, pledge to protect and enhance the public role of the Forestry Commission and to hold landowners who received large subsidies more accountable by insisting that they worked more for the public good.

    He said landowners had worked for their own rather than society’s betterment in the past. “Progress has been opposed by big landowners since 1945. Public access has not led to the destruction of landscape. Increasing access is perfectly compatible with sound management of the environment.”

    Attenborough was speaking to an audience of statist thieves.

  14. Do you have evidence of people being forced to do stuff by David Attenborough?

    This is a bit disingenuous. We have no evidence of people being forced to do stuff by any of the lobby groups and fake charities either, but they are very much part of the process of making something law – which the state then enforces.

  15. > This is a bit disingenuous. We have no evidence of people being forced to do stuff by any of the lobby groups and fake charities either, but they are very much part of the process of making something law – which the state then enforces.

    You’re splitting hairs. We have plenty of evidence that the lobby groups and fake charities are very much part of the process of making something law. So does anyone have evidence that David Attenborough is very much part of the process of making something law? Any laws that were instigated by him? Any instances of his giving a speech like this that led to legislation?

    > hold landowners who received large subsidies more accountable by insisting that they worked more for the public good.

    Sounds reasonable to me: why the hell shouldn’t the taxpayer get something in return for loads of money? I assume landowners do have the option of turning down massive public subsidies.

    > Progress has been opposed by big landowners since 1945.

    True, but for longer than that.

    > Public access has not led to the destruction of landscape.

    True, and contrary to what landowners insisted.

    > Increasing access is perfectly compatible with sound management of the environment.

    True again.

    For things that are around longer than us and which affect other people — land, trees, buildings — ownership comes with some responsibilities. When you buy a house, you take on a legal responsibility for its upkeep, within parameters defined by law. If you own a terraced or semi-detached house, you can’t choose to knock it down just because it’s yours. Because your actions affect other people and their property. I see no reason why the same — already existing — principle shouldn’t apply to ownership of great big chunks of Britain. Especially if the owner is being paid by the taxpayer.

    Anyway, since the overwhelming majority of people want wildlife in their gardens and so will be keen to receive advice about how to encourage it, I have no idea what the big fuss is here. “Ah, but when gardeners ban plants and animals from their gardens, then the jackbooted thieves will arrive and force hedgehogs onto the oppressed masses!” You’re on crack.

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