So Scotland is leaving then

Gordon Brown is to take centre stage in the knife-edge fight to save the United Kingdom after announcing an exhausting tour across Scotland to persuade voters “change is coming” even if there is a No vote.

The former Prime Minister will travel the length and breadth of the country in the final 10 days of the campaign with stops in villages, towns and cities including Clydebank, Kilmarnock, Kirkcaldy, Inverness, Galashiels, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen.

So that’s nine cities that will be voting yes then.

How many more do we have to send him to to seal the deal?

21 comments on “So Scotland is leaving then

  1. Someone asked me what would have happened if there was a LibLab coalition after the last election, with Brown staying on as PM (waving away that they didn’t have quite enough seats). I suggested that England would have demanded the right to vote in the Scottish independence referendum, and a narrow Scottish vote for no would have been outweighed by a massive landslide YES from the English.

  2. It was probably a mistake to leave it to the Scots themselves – Darling, Dougie Alexander, Brown, etc. Maybe we should have stuck our noses in earlier. Then again, if we had, it could now be 70/30 in favour of Yes.

  3. Surely it is no coincidence that the “Aye” camp has enjoyed a surge in its support since McDoom joined the fray.

  4. I thought there was no chance of them leaving. Now I wonder. I still think all the talk will evaporate on the day but maybe, just maybe.

    What I can’t understand is why Cameron and Co want the union to remain in place. It helps the (economically) right wing cause in England (and eventually, by example, would help Scotland) if they go.

    It’s almost like Cameron isn’t sound.

  5. Be interesting to see what happens to the Brtish Army if they go. Not that long ago the Saffa govt was talking about making it illegal for Saffas to serve in any foreign Army – which would have led to about a thousand (probably mostly oustanding) soldiers leaving. If Salmond gets in and goes down that route we could lose half the Army! Certainly a powerful bargaining chip for the wee smug slug.

  6. All I want is that if they go that we rapidly boot the Scots out and change the locks. If Scotland find they can’t get into the EU, we don’t look after them until they can. We don’t share the Bank of England. The Scots get their cut and they set up their own Bank, their own DVLA, their own patent office. All those institutions that exist that look after 70m people have to be duplicated for the 10m.

    If the Scots think they can act like a student who brings home washing to mum on the holidays, they’re going to get a pretty nasty surprise.

  7. Or they pay us to operate those parts of the govt for them? In gold or US $ (or perhaps renminbi these days).

  8. Do they have the same visceral loathing of Gordon Brown up there as we do here?

    One has to hope they come close to it.

  9. Interested,

    Personally, I’d like to get them to have to set it all up, just for the effect on Scottish finances. All that money they think they’re going to have, swallowed up on billions in computer systems. I think that’s even what they’ll do soon afterwards. It’ll be a bunch of nationalist/socialist politicians running the place and they’ll therefore want to create jobs and for those jobs to be in Scotland.

    It has a real chance of following the same history as Venezuela under Chavez – blame someone abroad for your ills, increase the size of the state, get a brain drain that leaves more poor people etc. Sure, you’ll keep the people who own B&Bs on Islay even if you raise taxes a bit, but anyone who is say, in software or engineering can pretty easily move to England.

  10. If they get independence it might be a good time to buy commercial property in Great Yarmouth, as the oil service firms in Aberdeen plan their escape. It’ll only be a matter of time before they’re taxed to death.

  11. @The Stigler:

    Yes, the point where I went from being mildly No to virulently anti-Yes was when the Yessers started discussing financial regulation.

    Their view is that the banks, insurance companies etc will remain in Scotland, will report to the UK regulators and also to a new Scottish regulator (which they said will only cost a few million to set up apparently).

    Knowing a fair bit about this subject I could see just how absurd this idea was. At that point I followed Tim’s off-repeated mantra: If they were making shit like this up about things I know about then they must be doing the same about everything else.

    Part of me agrees with you, that if there is a Yes vote then Scotland deserves what it is going to get. But I like living here and I know that there are a large number of Scots who do buy into the left wing crap.

    I am getting a bit worried.

  12. Tim Newman … Having clocked up a fair number of years in both locations, I’d plumb for an overseas posting – though perhaps not Nigeria.

  13. GlenDorran,

    “Their view is that the banks, insurance companies etc will remain in Scotland, will report to the UK regulators and also to a new Scottish regulator (which they said will only cost a few million to set up apparently).”

    If the New UK government supported this, it would pile votes into UKIP. Even if the pols agree to this, the public won’t.

    The only reason the English aren’t kicking the Scots out is a fair-minded view of self-determination and the sense of union. If the Scots walk away the rest of the UK will turn their back on them. It’ll be no different to most of us than our relationship to the Netherlands or Denmark.

    And the sheer arrogance of the SNP is breathtaking. “We’re going to be partners in the Bank of England and still get the BBC”. Uh, you might think that, but you have no power whatsoever after you walk away. It’s like telling your boss that you’re quitting, but you’ll still be using the car park. And it’ll be so small and powerless that it’ll be the junior partner negotiating with everyone. The EU have to treat Britain quite well as it’s a country of 70m people that puts a load of money in. Scotland is less than 10m people. The EU can negotiate from a position of if they lose Scotland *shrug*

    And I’m not saying all Scots are like this. I’ve got friends up there and have worked with bright people who might have made some gentle humour about me being English, but never treated me any different. I suspect that 40+% think this is nuts. The voters for independence will likely be clients of the state. The sort of cretins who think Thatcher destroyed their industry (rather than robots and Koreans).

  14. Like GlenDorran, I am worried, but of course for family and friends left in Scotland.

    I was a Nat in the 1970s. Anyone sentient then will guess why: Britain was a mess. Later, I got a look at the people who would come to the fore if we became independent, and knowing a few of them personally, I decided I was British.

    (As Labour came to look like winning the 1997 election, I had exactly the same feelings, for the same reasons.)

    Recently, a couple of friends said they would have put No posters in their front windows, but were afraid of getting a brick or two through the glass.

  15. I too know that the Yes campaign are talking utter mince in a whole number of areas with wildly inaccurate and optimistic financial assumptions and lying with impunity in every area of debate but what can anyone do?

    The rabble have been roused and they’re not interested in knowing or exposing the truth – they’re only interested in “Freedum”.

    I must live in a good area. A No poster has been up in a window for a couple of weeks without incident so far.

    I’m worried too – I’m wondering what my plans should be in the event of a Yes. I was born in Edinburgh and, despite having worked in London, Paris, Budapest, Zurich and Dusseldorf, I like living in what I believe to be the best city in the UK.

  16. I have always been really irritated by people who ‘know’ what is going to happen – on any subject. But… There is no way Scotland will vote Yes. The Yes campaign is an adolescent rant. I am convinced the No vote will be somewhere between 5-10% bigger than the Yes.

  17. Richard Murphy wets his pants every time he thinks of a yes vote and writes about “The Scots want freedom”; enough said.

  18. TimN, BernieG
    Try Easington. Even more of a dump than Great Yarmouth but better port facilities. (Or was.) And you can pick up some only mildly contaminated industrial land for the price of a deep fried mars bar.

  19. Looks like the vote is pretty evenly split at this point. That’s going to lead to a lot of future trouble whichever way it goes. And probably Wee Eck will hang on. If it went massively no then he’d be out on his ear. If it was significantly yes, then he would probably be strung up on Calton Hill or chucked off Salisbury Crags once everyone realises just how crap things are going to be from then on.

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