Proof that Scottish Independence is a great idea

Well, this is actually pretty easy. When you look at the people who are arguing against it then obviously Scottish independence is a seriously good idea.

No, really, anything opposed by George Galloway, David Cameron, Gordon Brown and Barack Obama must have bleedin’ something going for it.

That the Wee Eck is in favour of it does tip the other way but even he’s not enough to outweigh those four.

So, vote Yes!

And finally we’ll be shot of the lot of you.

44 comments on “Proof that Scottish Independence is a great idea

  1. I am hoping for a yes, as it seems we need an example of a country ran by socialists actually connected by land mass as an example of how not to run a country.

  2. Farage is a yes. Although he says the entire UKIP manifesto is rubbish, so maybe we shouldn’t assume he means what he says.

  3. Scott Hastings is and No. And even if he cannot make a cogent argument, he can tell the Yes gobshites to shut it in a way nobody else has so far. Well played Rory Stewart last night as well for not allowing anyone – Jon Snow or that made wimmens’ rights nutter next to him – to shout him down.

  4. And who the hell thought it was appropriate to thank Irvine Welsh for flying in from Chicago at the last minute to display his patriotism? Or Brian “I do live here; no I don’t have a vote” Cox: wanker.

  5. Thought you meant Brian Cox the science chappie at first – then I remembered he’s a northern not a caber tosser.

    Brian Cox the actor saying something twattish……yes I can see that. His appearance on Question Time was peak smug – at one point he flat out said “well, I don’t know thing one about economics but heres what my gut tells me…’long string of lefty cliches about moustache twirling, top-hatted capitalists’.” Cox can go hang.

  6. Fingers crossed here for a Yes, though with sympathy for non Nats who are about to be brought low by the fried Mars Bar eating classes. The proportion of registered voters, 97pc, means the electorate will contain more Ds and Es than would otherwise be the case. They, plus the teens, are more likely, surely, to swallow Wee Eck’s fantasy economics. It pains me to say it, but Cameron should go if there is a Yes vote not because 307 years of history will be turned on its head but for incompetence in agreeing to such gerrymandered terms.

  7. “but Cameron should go if there is a Yes vote”

    I’m more concerned with the half arsed ‘no’ vote promises that have been made. I’d have preferred a yes vote, but now I’m praying for one because I think the results of a ‘yes’ will be less disruptive for the rest of the UK.

  8. Here’s what I think, if anyone cares.

    It seriously pisses me off that most of us are not getting a vote in our own nationality. Scotland was not invaded by the English and is not a colony, and it is appalling that it gets to decide secession as if it were. This is a union of two nations, both of which agreed to go into that union, and its destruction should also be by the agreement of both. I’m Britsh, not English, and I don’t appreciate having my nationality changed without being consulted. I suspect I’m going to keep being British after the word ceases to have any real legal meaning, like those Iranians you occasionally meet who insist that they’re Persian.

  9. ST, the right to national self-determination trumps your concerns. You agree we’re a nation so we get to choose ourselves. Wouldn’t it be funny though if England decides it wants to play that game too and tells everyone else goodbye?

  10. Coming up to help dig those border ditches will exacerbate both conditions it’s true. But the profit to be made from smuggling refugees will make it all worthwhile of course.

  11. To a large extent the result of the vote no longer matters.

    If it’s no, England will cede enough power and money to Scotland so that it will be the equivalent of independence. Similarly, if they vote yes, the independence will require England to finance Scotland anyway.

    I would have quite liked a yes vote, as long as politicians had said “ok, be independent” and left it at that. The Fat Ecks 10% tax rate on 1 million workers versus £500 billion of debt. Seeems legit.

  12. @ Steve Crook

    Wouldn’t argue with any of that. Westminster parties have been craven. But I also want to see the great Cuba with Drizzle experiment fail due to the realities of a too-small tax base etc. Not persuaded by the English parliament shtick since there is still a UK to govern.

  13. If they want independence, then fine; we’ve no moral right to force them to stay.

    But if they want more autonomy within the Union, the rest of us ought to get a vote on that.

  14. GlenDorran
    September 18, 2014 at 9:37 am

    “And finally we’ll be shot of the lot of you.”

    Thanks Tim.

    I really hope your knee and shoulder keep hurting.

    Best put down I heard along those lines was “… and I hope your next shit’s a hedgehog”

    Squander Two
    September 18, 2014 at 9:23 am

    Here’s what I think, if anyone cares.

    It seriously pisses me off that most of us are not getting a vote in our own nationality. Scotland was not invaded by the English and is not a colony, and it is appalling that it gets to decide secession as if it were. This is a union of two nations, both of which agreed to go into that union, and its destruction should also be by the agreement of both.

    But if the English and Welsh also voted and the outcome was No when Scotland’s element was yes then that would be colonisation.

  15. Since all the referenced parties are weapons-grade tossers, that’s a nice opening for UKIP: offer the rest of the UK a referendum on subsidizing the Scots (Yes or No they’ll be demanding subsidies).

  16. The other way to look at it is that when even those guys have figured out it’s a bad idea, it’s probably incredibly stupid.

    Watching the Yes supporters on Newsnight was kinda disturbing. I don’t mind people supporting independence, but the “why” reasons were just tosh, a mix of Scottish romanticism, delusion about their years under the English and socialist worker anti-neoliberalism. There was no-one who I thought would turn it into a good country and lots that I thought would drive it to McVenezuela.

  17. One wonders which of Salmond and Brown is the more angry, bitter and psychopathic? Presumably the one whose side wins?

    Anyway, obviously neither are true Scots as they have not settled the point in traditional fashion by having a square go.

  18. Anyway, the enemy of my enemy is my friend so here’s to you Mr Brown, and it seems Mr Cameron agrees with me.

  19. The radical penumbra of Yes Scotland – the Greens, the Scottsh Socialist Party – are fairly reliable bellwethers of wrongness…

  20. In all seriousness, Devo-Max cannot happen without the English getting the same level of control over their affairs. And that control includes us all paying for it ourselves, with no fiscal transfers.
    That last qualification is the key one, the one that would cause Scots, Welsh and Irish to decide they like things just fine as they are. I think it’s too late though; they are all going to get Devo-Max now whether they want it or not; they asked too hard.
    My sense of whimsy is triggered by the incipient debate where the Tories are now offering quite extensive powers – i.e. welfare, INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO PAY FOR IT YOURSELVES. This according to Messrs Brown and Miliband isn’t necessary- there isn’t any “demand” for it. Well I’m English and I say there is! Expect the most peculiar auction in history over the next few months as the parties of devolution (Labour, LibDems) and independence (SNP, Plaed Cymru) fall over themselves to LIMIT the powers that are transfered.
    Don’t beleive me? Then take a look at the Tax Research blog. Richard “I would vote yes. The Scots are articulating a desire for freedom, self determination and a fair society” Murphy has suddenly had an epiphany. Now he has “never been a federalist” and is being kept up all night at the ghastly thought. He seems to have modified (completely changed) his view from last week that any attempt to limit the manifested will of the peole is undemocratic. Now he thinks that states can’t be allowed to fail.
    The devo-gang have had this coming.

  21. And that control includes us all paying for it ourselves, with no fiscal transfers.

    I don’t believe that will happen, even under Devo Ultra Max for heavy flow days. Someone will whine about oil revenue splits or something and Westminster will cave in and pay for everything as usual.

  22. In the unlikely event of a no vote, I’m sure they will get Devo Max. But they won’t get it good and hard (i.e. without those fiscal transfers).

  23. Can anyone provide an answer to the following question please?

    If Scotland votes YES, it has been mooted that the banks will move their registered offices to England, to the shelter of the Bank of England. If they do that, is there any way they can choose which jurisdiction their Corporation Tax is paid in? I suspect they would have to pay UK Corporation Tax.

  24. it has been mooted that the banks will move their registered offices to England, to the shelter of the Bank of England. If they do that, is there any way they can choose which jurisdiction their Corporation Tax is paid in?

    You (EU) pays your CT where your brass plate is. But the sneaky thing would be to have your brass plate in Eire and your banking licence in London so you get BoE umbrella and Irish CT.

    I purposely avoided learning enough about banking while my job was having them sacked to actually know if that one is permissible under banking licence regs. Bet you a pint-in-person it is, though 🙂

  25. Speaking of Gordon Brown, spotted this one on reddit:

    It’s no wonder Brown is doing so well in the campaign. He’s used to addressing large crowds with no supporters.

  26. From the Telegraph live blog:

    10.30 The future of Doncaster, South Yorkshire, is up in the air, local historians claim, because of a medieval treaty which reveals it may be owned by Scotland.

    Doncaster was signed over to Scotland more than 900 years ago as part of the Treaty of Durham, after King David successfully stormed large areas of northern England.

    It remained in Scottish hands for 21 years until Henry II appeared to reclaim the town under English rule in 1157 – but it was never formally given back.

    Until now, the claim to the land has been overlooked by Scots. Ed Miliband is the MP for Doncaster North.

    So a yes vote could get rid of Miliband *and* Brown?

  27. It’s in the Telegraph, it’s tosh.

    “It remained in Scottish hands for 21 years until…1157”
    – so this was the Treaty of Durham in 1136

    “Doncaster was signed over to Scotland more than 900 years ago”
    so it’s now 2037 or later.

    TLDR
    In reality, Doncaster was never signed over to Scotland: it and other fiefs were granted to King David’s son in return for his allegiance to King Stephen. So Stephen retained suzerainty.

  28. Sorry Tim.

    Early indications from the counts are showing the No vote are doing way better than the polls suggested. Salmond is being the “feartie” he accused everyone else of being and has cancelled his planned appearance at his local count. That says it all.

    I’m guessing it will end up being around 60-40 No.

    I’m also breathing a sigh of relief.

  29. Ironman – “In all seriousness, Devo-Max cannot happen without the English getting the same level of control over their affairs. And that control includes us all paying for it ourselves, with no fiscal transfers.”

    It can actually. There is no end of the ways to screw over the tax paying middle classes.

    But there is a simple solution to this – we need to copy the Scandinavian model. Which means DevoMax – more Max than Cameron could stomach – for the historic counties. All income tax rights should go to the counties – in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland alike. In Denmark, the local authorities control vast powers. The Scots can have local control over local matters, the same as the English do. And the Scottish Parliament can be reduced to a powerless empty talking shop.

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