How amusing

Darkly amusing, you understand:

The decision was described as “a disgrace” by one alleged victim who claimed the former MP was “being protected” because of his VIP status.

Leicestershire Police, which traced 25 potential victims during a two-year investigation launched in the wake of the Jimmy Savile scandal, said the CPS’s decision was “the wrong one” and the force is now taking legal advice on challenging it.

Greville Janner MP, as he was at the time, was interviewed by Leicestershire Police in 1991 after a former occupant of a children’s home accused him of abusing him for two years when he was aged between 13 and 15. The claims were made during the trial of another man who was later jailed for abusing more than 100 children.

When Ashcroft took ermine there was all sorts of rumpus and broohaha over whether he was actually tax resident in the UK or not. And shouts that if he wasn’t then he shouldn’t be wearing that stoat. And yet a few years earlier everyone stood around and cheered as a kiddie buggerer joined their Lordships.

Interesting how political beliefs influence things, isn’t it?

51 comments on “How amusing

  1. These people would feed their own parents, or children, to wolves in pursuit of their greater good. They belong to a movement which has killed and immiserated millions; what’s a few fiddled kids? Just eggs in the omelette.

  2. “Innocent until Alison Saunders tells the media you’re guilty”. I’m not sure that’s how the system is supposed to work.

  3. A couple of things:

    Yes indeed not is amazing how political affiliations impact on our views on justice and probity etc.

    But I understand he has dementia. If that is the case it certainly wouldn’t be in the public interest to prosecute.

    Then…Interested; to what ‘movement’ would you be referring exactly? You’ve lost me I’m afraid.

  4. Ironman, how long do we wait after Janner joins Jimmy Savile to trash his reputation in the press? Or does that all depend on how much cash he has stashed away for “compensation”?

  5. “And yet a few years earlier everyone stood around and cheered as a kiddie buggerer joined their Lordships.”

    Don’t we need an “alleged” in there?

  6. I think you only need quotes. You can’t call somebody a donkey-fellater. But you can call them a “donkey-fellater”.

  7. Shouldn’t that be donkey-fellator rather than donkey-fellater?
    Can’t be sure because I’ve only kept goats.

  8. @Neil

    The international socialist movement – you know, the one you’re a member of?

    🙂

  9. “You can’t call somebody a donkey-fellater.”
    Quite right – they can’t answer back.

  10. I should say – by the way – that I’m not suggesting Janner is guilty. I don’t know. I’m simply saying that it’s not surprising to me that the sins of fellow travellers might be ignored, especially by those who believe in the greater good

  11. Round these parts most of the lowlifes say they can’t remember. And a fat lot of good it does them. Yet in England this seems to be a stay out of jail card.

    Can we expect an Ernest Saunders style miracle cure any time soon?

  12. It’s bizarre to view this as a left-vs-right thing, when it’s abundantly clear that there were kiddy-buggerers on both sides of both houses (and, like Sir Cyril, the cross-benches) who were directly involved in the same groups as each other.

    (and yes, I do also make this point to left-wingers who go on about Tory kiddy-rapists)

  13. I only ask because Greville Janner is Jewish and accusing him of being part of a movement that has killed and immiserated millions could be seen as a bit…oops.

    Anyway, we don’t need quotation marks if we are quite certain the kiddie-buggerer can’t sue. I think it fair to mote that Tim isn’t waiting till he’s dead to point him out.

  14. Ironman, you made the point about it not being in the public interest to prosecute so I was merely asking how long after Janner pops his clogs will it be for his reputation to be trashed in the press. It was not intended as a dig at you personally.

  15. @JohnB

    Absolutely right, except that the point Tim is making is that left wing people made a fuss over Ashcroft but not one over Janner.

    Of course, the opposite would quite possible have obtained too.

    Slightly OT, and slightly to argue against my own original post, non lawyers (and non English law lawyers) perhaps don’t appreciate how serious this kind of thing is becoming.

    A friend of mine recently defended on a private basis a man whose wife had accused him of domestic violence.

    Apart from a bruise (and she fell over all the time) there was literally no evidence – I read the case papers – other than her word against his.

    The really killer fact?

    The woman had advanced dementia and even the prosecution expert said she was incapable of knowing what time of day it was, never mind whether her husband had hit her.

    Further, she had made similar allegations against everyone from the postman to her children to the nurse who came in to care for her every day.

    Knowing this, the CPS charged him.

    The case was thrown out once the prosecution medical evidence was disclosed – and disclosure took forever, despite repeated requests (largely because the CPS are overstretched and stupid) – but had he not had the cash to pay a barrister privately then there’s every possibility that those reports would have stayed buried somewhere. Who knows? Maybe he’d have pleaded guilty on advice.

    Even if he’d been acquitted, the punishment is the process.

    It still cost him several thousand pounds that he can’t get back (and my friend waived half her fee in disgust).

  16. “Greville Janner is Jewish and accusing him of being part of a movement that has killed and immiserated millions could be seen as a bit…oops”

    So being Jewish gives you a free pass to be a part of an international political system that was responsible for the murders of tens of millions of people, and no-one can point it out? Ralph Milliband was a nasty piece of Marxist filth, but because he was Jewish that’s all OK I suppose?

  17. So basically, the new system of simply declaring people guilty is now extended from the dead to the demented? Okay.

  18. “I doubt very much that anyone’s going to make the Oscar Wilde mistake again….”

    Oh I don’t know. With modern standards of literacy it is quite likely that several people will call him a somdomite.

  19. @Neil

    It could be ‘seen as a bit oops’, but only if the person doing the ‘seeing’ was stupid, and uninformed, and constantly looking for things that are not there, and didn’t understand that groups of people are not like Easter Island statues, more or less identical, immutable and unchanging.

    The ‘muzzies’ you constantly deride have been victims and oppressors at various times. The same is true of the English, the French, the Zulu, the Maori, the Norsemen…

    The Jews suffered horribly during the Holocaust, and at many other times through history, more than most, but some of them are *still* leftists, despite the fact that leftism has killed and immiserated tens of millions.

    That doesn’t stop Jew-haters like you calling them capitalist pigs, of course.

    Go figure!

  20. More info is needed about both this Janner case (and Cyril Smith–who(m?) far too many people are assuming to be guilty(possibly on the grounds of his physical grossness).

    In the absence of more info no conclusions should be drawn–but , given the track record of bullshit peddled by Yewtree and the CPS, I have think it likely these allegations will evaporate in the light of day like so many more.

  21. Ian B,

    So basically, the new system of simply declaring people guilty is now extended from the dead to the demented? Okay.

    “We’re not going to charge him, but if we were to charge him it would involve this long list of offences.”

  22. @ johnb78
    In case you hadn’t noticed the allegations regarding “hushing up” of allegations about Sir Cyril Smith relate to the period when he was a Labour Councillor in and Labour Mayor of Rochdale.

  23. Interested

    You seem to spend your life obsessing over me. Gratifying in a sense but quite creepy in most others.

    You are clearly a very angry person – almost as if your daughter had run into IanB – but your “old men in dresses” comment suggests you’re losing it a bit.

    If you need to go private for treatment I can help with the bills.

  24. Ian B

    The only time I’ve been threatened with legal action on Twitter – for a tweet which got retweeted about 100 times – was when I called a former GLA councillor a criminal embezzler who had stolen thousands – I agree the quote marks in subsequent tweets seemed to resolve the issue with no problems.

  25. Well, Jimmy Saville was never prosecuted and that doesn’t seem to have done his reputation any harm.

  26. Of course one way to solve this “CPS are crap” thing would be to take the decision of whether there is adequate evidence for a prosecution out of the hands of the State and have a grand jury system instead.

    Ironman-

    Interested’s teenage daughter would be entirely safe with me, unlike with people like yourself who cannot tell whether they fancy children without checking a birth certificate.

  27. He was well enough to still be voting on UK legislation last October (and claiming his £300 per day expenses). His name has been in the public domain as an alleged child-rapist for over twenty years. All that time there was never enough evidence to start a prosecution, now there’s enough for 22 charges, he’s thrown a sickie. Very convenient.

  28. IanB

    What an unusual comment from a man who thinks shagging underage teenage girls should be legal. You are always ALWAYS so quick to deny that personally like girls under the age of 16. I do find you curious. Not as curious as I would find you of I were in the Police, but curious nonetheless.

  29. Classic example of the witch-hunting mindset here. Make accusation: if not challenged, this proves the person is a witch. If challenged, this also proves the person is a witch.

    As I’ve said many times Ironman, you are an exceedingly stupid man. Whether you deny that or not, it will remain true.

  30. But on your own terms the witch-hunting analogy doesn’t stack up, because you say it’s perfectly fine behaviour. So the ‘accusation’ isn’t an accusation in your eyes; it’s just a statement of belief.
    And yet your denials are so very emphatic and immediate. That is what is so curious.

  31. And on the subject of witch-finding, Witchsmeller: your first reaction is to smell a rat and assume it’s a put up job!

    Isn’t it curious, the people on this site who are the first to declare Rolf and Stuart and Jimmy and Max to be innocent victims of politically correct fascists and the first to.declare a Labour peer to be guilty – obviously guilty.

    Change the names and the political affiliations and isn’t this exactly what Tim’s post is all about?

  32. Sorry Ironman, I’m a leftist. And the conspiracy involving paedophile politicians / policemen involves all three of the main political parties. And Jenner obviously has a case to answer, and has had for over twenty years.

  33. Ironman, the sad thing about your constant pointy-finger is that you’ve never understood a word I have said, and that is because your attitude is so narrow that anything I have said just flies over your head. I am actually really tired of this trading of insults. If you once wanted a calm discussion of the issues, I would happily write an extensive comment on the subject, again. But you don’t want one, because you already have the mental shutters slammed shut like any dogmatist. For you, even discussion is dangerous. All you are interested in doing is preventing it.

    As to Janner, my attitude is precisely the same as with other people. I think this public declaration of his guilt by the CPS and media is despicable. It is not compatible with what we used to call justice in this country. Just as I was highly critical of the handling of the Clifford case despite my, at an emotional level, considering him one of the most odious individuals in public life.

  34. For what its worth, having followed many of the discussions on here involving the current ‘paedo’ hysteria sweeping the nation, I’d happily have a pint and a chinwag with Ian B, I always look forward to his posts, they are always very interesting and well argued.

  35. Quite apart from the decision re prosecuting Janner, is the question of who it was within the higher levels of the CPS, who blocked the efforts of the police when they wanted to arrest him in 1991. That chain of events should be investigated and the results published. The public need to be confident that no-one is above the law.

  36. I’d happily have a pint and a chinwag with Ian B

    Ditto. And the same goes for most contributors here.

    And I sometimes think Ian B deserves a medal for remaining so calm when being accused of being a paedo, just for posing the question “why is 16 the magic number?”

  37. “And I sometimes think Ian B deserves a medal for remaining so calm when being accused of being a paedo, just for posing the question “why is 16 the magic number?””

    Quite. Especially when there’s more countries in Europe with ages of consent below 16 as there are countries with 16 or above.

    Presumably those French, Germans and Italians are all suspect for daring to have an age of consent below that which our resident moral arbiter decrees correct.

  38. Thanks guys 🙂

    If anything, all I’ve ever been asking is where Ironman- or anyone else- derives their certainties from.

  39. Gruaniad” “A former director of public prosecutions has criticised Crown Prosecution Service officials for failing to present him with new evidence in 2007 of the Labour peer Lord Janner’s alleged abuse of children.

    Lord Macdonald QC said that instead of passing on allegations of serious sexual offences against Janner, local CPS officials in Leicestershire dropped the pursuit of charges without consulting headquarters in London.”

    Well Janner was Labour, and those were known to be Macdonald’s sympathies at the time. Could the Leicester people have decided not to risk their careers by putting it on Macdonald’s desk? The Politicisation of Everything in the Blair years must extract a price.

    P.S. Does anyone know why Macdonald veered around and became a LibDem peer?

  40. I’m quite certain of what you are, that’s all. Jim can join your nut job gang if he wants.

  41. Is this Janner bloke still sitting in the house of lards, sorry, lords? If yes, why? Either he’s too ill to take part in their legislative function, or he should be charged and the matter debated in court. He can’t have it both ways…..

  42. Janner was a turd the whole of his political life and thoroughly merited a good kicking, but the fact that these allegations have surfaced right at the point when he is deemed unfit to stand trial is very fishy indeed. Has the principle that you can’t libel the dead now been extended to you can’t libel the demented?

    One fear that should not be discounted is that this presages a move towards lowering the bar for such allegations (cf. accusations of sexual assault on US university campuses). Just as there, anyone calling for due process to be observed will be accused of supporting malefactors (there, rapists; here, nonces). It’s not quite a witch-hunt because it appears in this case there really are some witches to be found, but I’ll lay odds some ugly scenes lie ahead of us.

  43. BiCR-

    Bear in mind that real witches (communists) existed during the McCarthy Witch Hunts. And indeed, real witches existed during the original witch hunts as well- known as “cunning folk” generally in England, they offered herbal remedies, charms and spells etc.

    The characteristic of a witch hunt (to me anyway) is a mob desire to hunt some sort of person down, ignoring normal standards of evidence, justice etc, because of the perception that their crime or influence is so severe that normal standards can no longer apply.

  44. Ironman – “Isn’t it curious, the people on this site who are the first to declare Rolf and Stuart and Jimmy and Max to be innocent victims of politically correct fascists and the first to.declare a Labour peer to be guilty – obviously guilty.”

    I don’t think Janner is obviously guilty. I am not even sure he is guilty. But there was no evidence against Harris or against Savile. Accusations against Janner have been made and tested, sort of, in a Court of Law. That is a slightly different matter.

    As for his mental state, I can believe it is true. On the other hand I remember Ernest Walter Saunders – one of the Guiness Four. Let out of prison because of his senile dementia and Alzheimer’s. Truly it was a miracle that he subsequently made a full recovery. The only person to make a full recovery from Alzheimer’s as it happens.

  45. johnb78 – “It’s bizarre to view this as a left-vs-right thing, when it’s abundantly clear that there were kiddy-buggerers on both sides of both houses (and, like Sir Cyril, the cross-benches) who were directly involved in the same groups as each other.”

    It is not abundantly clear to me that there was any sexual abuse of children going on by anyone in the Houses of Parliament. I mean, statistically, there must have been. But there have not been a lot of good cases with actual real plausible evidence. Janner is about the best of the lot.

    It is not like France where the Minister of Culture boasted of going to Thailand to f**k boys.

  46. Ian B talks sense. There’s a pint waiting for him at my local (in the unlikely event that he can get here) any time. Ironman shags five-year-olds,

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