70 comments on “Hmm

  1. What category would an extreme genitally mutilated hormonally enhanced crossdresser get to compete in at the Olympics?

  2. So what?
    Not really any of your damn business, is it?
    You put up a smart-arse comment implying disapproval without offering any reasons that people can analyse and disect, and you make no comment and suggest no concern for the turmoil that this woman has personally been through.
    Heaven knows how I’ve come to this site from a more or less right-wing site. I understand part of being right-wing is to support freedom of the individual and not to indulge in mean-spirited sanctimonious disapproval.
    This post is, I hope, one of your worst.

  3. James Strong: unstopper your smelling salts! Who is contesting an individual’s right to alter his appearance and dress in a way that is contra his biology, but a surgically created hole is not a vagina, he has never bought a tampon or risked pregnancy, so no, he has not become a woman in any biological sense.

  4. James Strong – “Not really any of your damn business, is it?”

    It is when he makes it our business.

    “You put up a smart-arse comment implying disapproval without offering any reasons that people can analyse and disect”

    What possible reason is needed? What possible analysis is necessary? What you mean is that he does not give you an excuse to call him a bigot. This is classy Concern Trolling.

    “and you make no comment and suggest no concern for the turmoil that this woman has personally been through.”

    So f**king what? Why should anyone give a damn about the personality problems of this man? It is tragic, yes. What more is needed to be said? It is certain that he and his lobby is not concerned about us.

    “Heaven knows how I’ve come to this site from a more or less right-wing site.”

    That is nice for you.

    “I understand part of being right-wing is to support freedom of the individual and not to indulge in mean-spirited sanctimonious disapproval.”

    Individuals have the right to mean-spirited sanctimonious disapproval too. Freedom does not mean the sort of bullying we get from people like you for expressing a perfectly natural and sensible reaction to this sort of thing.

    “This post is, I hope, one of your worst.”

    Even better Concern Trolling.

  5. James Strong
    “Not really any of your damn business, is it?”

    If it’s not anyone’s business, I’m curious to know why it’s all over major newspapers worldwide.

  6. Tim, how dare you show a picture of a man who thinks he is a woman but is still actually a man. You should suspend all rational judgement and join the bovine unthinking herd

  7. I’m a libertarian or economic right-winger, whatever you might want to call it. I follow this and similar blogs. We’d all agree on the Laffer Curve and other economic matters.
    I’m also transgender.
    I’d like to say that the whole “once a man, always a man” or “but Y chromosome” arguments are exactly the same sort of “obvious, but actually quite stupid in detail” arguments as “raising taxes will raise more money” or “but smoking is bad for you” which most on here would laugh at.
    It’s all rather more complicated than that, even in raw biological and medical terms.
    In any case rest assured that I haven’t been ‘got to’ by cultural marxists; I haven’t joined a cult. My own attitude to these matters has been shaped through hard years of experience, backed up with scientific and medical fact.
    Reading this post and comments is more disappointing for me than anything else. I would like to think that the likes of you would know better.

  8. X,

    Rest assured, some of us do.

    But “conservative” isn’t the same thing as “libertarian”, and libertarians ought to believe in free speech. People who don’t like having to accommodate blurred gender lines have a place in this world, too.

  9. X

    Rest assured, some of us, if we don’t know better, are certainly stopping and taking the time to try to understand.

    Some of us, however, as perfectly illustrated by this post, are Thick.Racist.Mysoginistic.Pricks. The usual suspects.

  10. Ironman aka Neil the South African accountant and Liverpool FC bore – you’re the one who hates “ugly women”. So if you’re going to accuse others of misogyny you really ought a) not exhibit it and b) be able to spell it.

    That deals with your intelligence, too.

    Your many hate filled posts about “muzzies” and “nig nogs” (I assume your latent Saffa comes out while drunk or away from your pills) deal with your own vile racism.

    Your prickishness is self evident.

    X – all I’m saying is that it’s a bit weird. By definition it is. But if it’s you and your way that’s cool by me. Knock yourself out.

  11. I’m a big fan of this blog and of Tim’s views more generally, but am rather disappointed by this post. No-one’s perfect I guess.

    Keep up the good work more broadly Tim.

    Charlie T.

  12. I do love the ‘more in sorrow than in anger’ attacks that this particular topic always generates from people whose handle I never seem to recognise from their many other contributions to these comment spaces.

    Strange, that, innit?

  13. JuliaM,

    Possibly they don’t want to let people who clearly hate them know who they are…?

    Seriously, I read quite a few more blogs than I comment on. I’ll only comment there if something is said I feel strongly about. I’d guess it’s the same thing.

  14. Before I realised the pic was of this Jenner chap, I assumed it was of some East German lady shot-putter of a certain era and pedigree.

    Can’t see that the original post invites us to do any more than consider what, indeed, is a woman. Or a man.And with the best will in the world, adult transgenderism is a profoundly incomprehensible phenomenon to most of us: We are asked to understand that which we cannot. So let’s live and let live. But we can’t pretend there’s nothing going on here of note. For that matter, the likes of Jenner demand we take note.

  15. If some people are confused and psychologically traumatised by their sexual/gender identity then they have my sympathy.

    I do note that they are not so traumatised that they can’t just shut the fuck up about it.

  16. They’re not traumatised by their own gender identity, they’re traumatised by the conflict between that gender identity and the segregated restrictions society imposes on them on the grounds of gender.

    In the same way that black people are not traumatised by being black, they’re traumatised by the racial segregation imposed on them by society because they’re black.

    As for “shutting the fuck up”, so much for the libertarian principles of free speech…

  17. Shutting up has been tried, it didn’t work. It turns out the only way to get rights is to make a lot of noise.

  18. Matthew, those aren’t rights, they’re impositions.

    Incidentally, the Fail today reports on a certain Veronica Bolina, who has been treated in the most bestial manner.

  19. James Strong – Heaven knows how I’ve come to this site from a more or less right-wing site. I understand part of being right-wing is to support freedom of the individual and not to indulge in mean-spirited sanctimonious disapproval.

    James, if an adult chap wants to get his man-bits removed and call himself a chapess, that’s his business.

    If he wants to force us to treat him as a chapess, using hysterical politically correct shaming tactics and/or the malign force of the state, that is everyone’s business.

    Unfortunately a not insignificant number of transgenderers are batshit insane social justice fanatics who are making their private troubles everyone’s business.

    That way lies the madness of “gender neutral” primary schools, men in skirts entering women’s changing rooms, and little kids being pumped full of toxic hormones because their temporary enthusiasm for pretending to be the opposite sex is misdiagnosed as transsexualism.

    Bruce Jenner may honestly feel like a woman, or a penguin, or a bowl of petunias. But he isn’t one. Facts count for a lot more than feelings, James. Water is wet. “Women” don’t have penises or Y-chromosomes. There… are… FOUR… lights!

  20. Bloke in Germany – “What’s good for Deirdre McCloskey or Nikki Sinclaire…”

    I am interested. What do you think is good for Deirdre McCloskey?

    NiV – “They’re not traumatised by their own gender identity, they’re traumatised by the conflict between that gender identity and the segregated restrictions society imposes on them on the grounds of gender.”

    The evidence for this is what? Do tell us about all the evidence that proves that it is society’s fault. You do notice that the advantage of blaming all our unhappiness and faults on society is that we do not have to take any responsibility for them?

    “In the same way that black people are not traumatised by being black, they’re traumatised by the racial segregation imposed on them by society because they’re black.”

    There is remarkably little evidence that Black people are traumatised. Black people, in my experience, love being Black and wouldn’t be anything else. The cringe factor that comes when someone points out some bizarre feature of Black life does not usually come from Black people but from White people who assume their values are universal.

    Matthew L – “Shutting up has been tried, it didn’t work. It turns out the only way to get rights is to make a lot of noise.”

    What rights don’t they have? Self-righteous bullying of others gets you a lot. Until it doesn’t.

  21. NiVPossibly they don’t want to let people who clearly hate them know who they are…?

    Seriously, I read quite a few more blogs than I comment on. I’ll only comment there if something is said I feel strongly about. I’d guess it’s the same thing.

  22. NiV – “Possibly they don’t want to let people who clearly hate them know who they are…?”

    There is no evidence of hate on this blog except from Ironman. Who does seem to have some issues. But that is not the point. Clearly there are activists cruising the net looking for someone disrespecting the Narrative. And then they do their usual Concern Troll shtick.

  23. “Not really any of your damn business, is it?”

    Should we criminalize watching “Keeping Up With the Kardashians?”

  24. I do like the way that non-whole-hearted-support for transgender issues is assumed to be a “right wing” stance by the progressive totalitarians.

    Perhaps some metro-leftists need to get out of their organic cafes and have a chat with the much more conservative hoard that are their ignored (even despised?) base voters.

    I think you’ll find it is an age-based divide rather than a left-right divide.

    I’ll note that these comments come from practical experience of my activist involvement in the “equal marriage” debate in Scotland. I’m pretty much an economic extremist, but a JSM liberal. Almost everybody in the debate is to my left, sometimes by several country miles. Yet quite a lot of them are much more socially conservative than me. YMMV.

  25. In reply to various people at the same time;
    I’m not posting under my usual name because I’m not totally out yet. I’m still weighing up my options, making preparations etc. My usual posting name is the same across many sites, I don’t want the possibility of someone making mischief for me in real life, not yet.
    Unlike some I don’t want to silence anyone and I utterly believe in free speech. There are no rights that I demand, I consider what is already in place (in the UK) to be perhaps excessive.
    It genuinely IS all rather weird, not least to me and other people involved. The transgender people shouting from the rooftops that they ARE women/men and were all along, despite having the bodies of the opposite are very much in the minority. The majority accept that they are permanently stuck as some mix of both, and want to quietly get on with life and hopefully be happy at it.
    Why am I posting about this? I for one until relatively recently agreed that transgenderism was an illegitimate, dangerous fantasy; just another kind of madness. This is despite actually experiencing it myself. Many people are in the same situation of denial, self-loathing and depression. The suicide rate is truly enormous among those who can be identified as having been transgender. Imagine how enormous it is among those who have never told a soul about it. On the off chance that someone like that may read what I write and end up in a slightly better place, I will pipe up about it on sites like this now and then.
    For what it’s worth I do pipe up about the sort of politics we’d agree on, on the sort of sites where trans issues are rather popular and those politics less so.
    Read about the science of this stuff if you’re ever at a loss for something to do. The interplay of genes and hormones that 999 times out of 1000 leads to a normal man or woman really is fascinating.

  26. From the wiki: “Jenner will star in a reality show about his transitioning, beginning in July 2015.”

    But God forbid should anyone voice a negative opinion.

  27. M’learned Mr Lud. Please. Thanks to you, for the second time this morning I’ve been diverted to the Mail. In the case of your comment, having to scroll down about 9 yards of front page to find what you’re referring to. Please have a care. There is the right-hand column. There’s articles like this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3055074/Amber-Rose-ditches-underwear-shows-ample-assets-plunging-purple-dress-latest-stop-club-tour.html Heavens! I didn’t realise there were night clubs in Milton Keynes. It sounds so improbable.
    Please. Have consideration for the week willed. Supply links.

  28. @ JuliaM
    Am a daily reader and have been for a while (years). I normally only post when:
    i) I disagree with the blog post; and
    ii) can be arsed.
    I think this happy combination of circumstances has occurred perhaps 3 or 4 times.
    Sorry I don’t meet your standards for “community engagement”.

  29. SE – I do like the way that non-whole-hearted-support for transgender issues is assumed to be a “right wing” stance by the progressive totalitarians.

    Yarp. Your average Labour voter isn’t a huge fan of that sort of thing.

    I think you’ll find it is an age-based divide rather than a left-right divide.

    Pretty much. Young people are naturally gullible, and our shitty state schools (and, indeed, now almost entirely worthless universities) have left a generation unequipped with the tools to think.

    Instead, they feel.

  30. And after loving him/her for all of 5 minutes, the left now hates Jenner because he/she came out as a Republican.

  31. Everybody should be entitled to state heir opinion. Indeed some are on tuis blog because it possibly provides them the only safe space to state their particular opinion.

    But by the same token everybody else is entitled to point out what ugly people they are. In my case they confirm my opinion by their fantastically dirty response.

    So we have: “These people are mentally ill”; not offered as an expression of concern.

    We have the glorious SMFS at 7.55am. Thank for proclaiming your right to display you’re an spirited sanctimonious disapproval. Oh and thank you for describing that as “natural and sensible”.

    BTW he didn’t make it your your business as you claim. He publicised it… and you chose to read it. So you madee it your business. Fuckwit.

  32. And I do like Interested ‘ s injured innocence. All he did was point out it was a bit weird. Not “a bit weird IN MY OPINION” or ” a bit bit weird but live and let live”. No, those sentiments don’t arrive in his head until he is challenged.

    You’re not a very nice person; keep posting.

  33. Thanks for posting, X. I hope you find a greater contentment in any path you may choose.

  34. The right response in this circumstance is surely to wish well to all concerned. I hope the point of this Tim’s post was not to poke fun but rather to point out this being one of life’s mysteries – I can respect something even if I can’t comprehend it. But I don’t think even those going through it can comprehend it totally, so what chance do the rest of us have? Being an individual human being is a fundamentally isolated experience – there are experiences and feelings that no amount of words or grunts or body language or painted pictures or morse-code-tapped-out-on-feet can convey any but the smallest inkling of, and those left outside can never claim to truly understand.

  35. Mr (n) in Spain, I apologise.

    Interesting to hear that Milton Keynes still exists, though.

  36. X – don’t do it.

    Read what Danielle Bunton went through:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110725030149/http://www.anticlockwise.com/dani/personal/changes/dont.htm

    You may feel like a woman, but science can’t make you one. That is the awful truth, not just my bigoted cispatriarchy talking – look at what’s become of people who get “sex changes” – the surgery and hormones screw them up, and they lose everything.

    The suicide rate for the transconfused is shocking. And it only gets higher after hormones and surgery.

  37. Steve

    You may well be right. You may be wrong; I for one just don’t know. What I do know is I don’t feel entitled to point and laugh at people like X as if to shout “Hah hah, look at the freak”.
    It’s nice to see you don’t either.

  38. @Gunker, no, far from it! I’m just cutting back on the posting (and not replying to comments) while I fight off a nasty vision problem. I can make short comments & Tweets, but eyes get tired after a while.

    Hopefully, normal service will soon be resumed, and I’ll have a lot of catching up to do!

  39. Since X is now a member of this virtual village, I feel sympathy for him and the dilemma he faces. I’d try to comfort or defend a friend or neighbour if I knew one who was uncomfortable in their own skin.

    But this is a Californian celebridee, a long way from my village, so my horrible facetious sexist alter-ego kicks in.

    Is his chest rug being used for someone going the other way? Is his wedding tackle going to end up in a museum? Is there a public auction or a TV series coming up where the curious or prurient can ogle the new or the missing parts? Will he stand (no pun intended) for the first TG governor of California?

    Now I’ll go and wash my hands.

  40. “I for one just don’t know. What I do know is I don’t feel entitled to point and laugh at people like X as if to shout “Hah hah, look at the freak”.

    Well, no Ironman. We do actually need a certain amount of finger pointing and “Look at the freak” And to feel entitled to do so.
    Because it’s a degree of censure holds a culture together. Or you’ll get to a point where you don’t have culture, at all. Some bits having gone so far off in their own direction they’ve lost touch with other bits.
    And this is where I start to lose touch with some liberal/libertarian thinking. Because we’ve been doing that non-judgemental, non-critical stuff for a while now. Rather too much of it. And some parts of the culture *have* lost touch with other parts. There’s other cultures appeared in our midst, we don’t have much mutually comprehensible to say to each other & little imperative on either side to seek anything.
    It’s not likely to end well

  41. Ironman – “In my case they confirm my opinion by their fantastically dirty response.”

    I just love Ironman’s projection. The only person who habitually responds with four letter words and nothing else is, of course, our resident Guardianista, Ironman. He does not have anything else coherent or logical to say. But of course he has to blame everyone else for his faults.

    “So we have: “These people are mentally ill”; not offered as an expression of concern.”

    So what? Someone needs to Concern Troll before he is allowed to express an opinion? You do not know in what spirit that was offered up. And actually, before Tatchell and his merry band of bullies got on the case, it was widely accepted that what he is displaying was a sign of mental illness. In my experience most psychiatrists still quietly think it is a sign of mental illness. It is central to the Freudian world view after all. The first step to health is recognition of the problem. So it is a more helpful and compassionate comment than anything Ironman has offered.

    “We have the glorious SMFS at 7.55am. Thank for proclaiming your right to display you’re an spirited sanctimonious disapproval. Oh and thank you for describing that as “natural and sensible”.”

    No problems. It is a pleasure to enlighten and educate.

    “BTW he didn’t make it your your business as you claim. He publicised it… and you chose to read it. So you madee it your business. Fuckwit.”

    Actually I first read it here. But no. He and his friends are making it my business. By law. By public shaming. I am happy for people to do all sorts of damage to themselves in the privacy of their own home – although this is so extreme I think we ought to intervene to help. It becomes my problem when it becomes a matter of Social Justice Warrior campaigning and efforts designed to silence people and even have them jailed. As with J. Michael Bailey.

  42. Ironman – “What I do know is I don’t feel entitled to point and laugh at people like X as if to shout “Hah hah, look at the freak”.”

    No but you police your moral bounds with far more vigour and vitriol than anyone else here. It is not that you are opposed to hate or to finger pointing. Just that you do not think it is appropriate here.

    That does not make you morally superior. It makes you uncomfortable in the friends you have chosen I suspect.

  43. “And this is where I start to lose touch with some liberal/libertarian thinking.”

    Quite. It’s always the same: “Of course I believe in liberty, but that surely wasn’t meant to include…”

    “It’s not likely to end well”

    Agreed. Because in building a society that imposes its rules on its members, you don’t get to decide which rules get imposed, and you’re as likely to be on the losing side as with the winners.

    Maybe it’ll be the gays and trans who get persecuted and excluded. Maybe it’ll be the homophobes and transphobes. But whichever way it goes, it’ll be the authoritarians who end up running the show, so long as there are enough people who “lose touch with liberal thinking” when it comes to enforcing their own personal moral limits.

    We don’t do the non-judgmental stuff because we don’t have views. We don’t judge lest we be Judged ourselves. We do it out of self-protection, because quite frankly libertarians are a tiny minority who loudly and irritatingly oppose everything the authoritarians stand for on every issue and are therefore clearly ripe for a good kicking when they finally get back into power.

    You’re not kidding it’s not likely to end well.

  44. NiV – “Because in building a society that imposes its rules on its members, you don’t get to decide which rules get imposed, and you’re as likely to be on the losing side as with the winners. Maybe it’ll be the gays and trans who get persecuted and excluded.”

    Maybe. Given that Gays are an insignificantly small proportion of the population and the Trans are even less, it is quite likely. Actually.

    “Maybe it’ll be the homophobes and transphobes. But whichever way it goes, it’ll be the authoritarians who end up running the show, so long as there are enough people who “lose touch with liberal thinking” when it comes to enforcing their own personal moral limits.”

    The authoritarians are running the show and it is, at the moment, normal people who are being persecuted. Look at what has happened on Twitter. Some people make a few perfectly sensible comments and we get the usual SJW mass attack. However that is not likely to last. People who are both an insignificant minority *and* grossly illiberal need to re-consider one or other of those positions. Once they get the liberal institutions changed, as they are bust trying as we speak, they are likely to come to regret the passing of that White heteronormative society that protected them.

    It is not the “homophobes” who have been pushing to make life uncomfortable for anyone. They are not trying to get people jailed. They are not getting people fired for small donations to political campaigns. Again you are Concern Trolling and this one is particularly shameless. If you believe a word of it, defend Brendan Eich.

  45. “The authoritarians are running the show and it is, at the moment, normal people who are being persecuted. Look at what has happened on Twitter. Some people make a few perfectly sensible comments and we get the usual SJW mass attack.”

    Yes, that’s what I was alluding to.

    “It is not the “homophobes” who have been pushing to make life uncomfortable for anyone. They are not trying to get people jailed. They are not getting people fired for small donations to political campaigns.”

    In regard to the current SJW thing, I agree. But you need to bear in mind that 60 years ago it was the other way round, and I don’t regard the principle as any different. Those attitudes haven’t entirely disappeared, and to a large extent people still *are* pushing for life to be made uncomfortable for them. Maybe not as uncomfortable as it used to be, or as the SJWs are doing, but still more uncomfortable than it might be. People *here* have, and others have expressed their discomfort with it.

    I’m definitely not in favour of the stream of professional victims going to court to enforce the new morality on the older folks, but I’m very much in favour of people doing it voluntarily, out of compassion and principle, and finding better ways around such conflicts.

    ‘Tolerance’ of things that don’t bother you is easy.

  46. NiV – “In regard to the current SJW thing, I agree. But you need to bear in mind that 60 years ago it was the other way round, and I don’t regard the principle as any different.”

    Actually 60 years ago society was much more tolerant. At least in the UK. You had to go out of your way to be persecuted by the government for being Gay.

    “‘Tolerance’ of things that don’t bother you is easy.”

    Indeed. But the liberal society of the past is dead. The Marxists killed it. In this Brave New World the choices are 1. we jail people we don’t like or 2. they jail us. The Trans lobby is doing all it can to make sure people like me become extinct. Why precisely should I extend one single inch of tolerance their way? We offered tolerance. They rejected it.

  47. The Trans lobby is doing all it can to make sure people like me become extinct. Why precisely should I extend one single inch of tolerance their way? We offered tolerance. They rejected it.

    But it’s not the trannies who are lobbying. As with ‘gay marriage’, it’s just the left latching onto anything they can use to attack Western culture, and the gays and trannies are the ones who’ll suffer the backlash.

    One of my friends had a sex change years ago, and she’s certainly not out there lobbying for… well, anything, really. Nor are they out there in the media announcing that they’re now a woman. They just want to get on with their life.

    And, I should add, when he had his op, the only people who freaked out about it were the women who now had to share the company toilet with someone who used to be male. Today, I guess, they’d claim he was appropriating their gender victim identity, or some such SJW nonsense.

  48. I have a certain amount of instinctive sympathy for both extremes expressed here – BiF also put it quite well, above. But as a libertarian, I’m with NiV, in the final analysis. And for those who haven’t yet looked – and with apologies in advance, I’m doing this on my ‘phone, so links aren’t easy – do google Veronica Bolina. I’m not too easily shocked, but was by what I saw. And what I saw, besides the bestial treatment meted out, was the frailty and vulnerability of someone whom I don’t know, may be a decent sort, may be a nutter, dunno, but who has been savaged apparently for the incomprehensibility of who she or he is.

    Well, England isn’t Brazil, so no direct comparison. And I realise I’m starting to sound a bit Guardianish, which cant be good. But still. The advantage of live and let live is that the solution to people with whom we don’t, for whatever reason, wish to associate, is not to associate with them. Perhaps that’s a lesson they need to learn, as well as the rest of us.

    Sermon over, he says, visibly affected.

  49. Edward M. Grant – “But it’s not the trannies who are lobbying. As with ‘gay marriage’, it’s just the left latching onto anything they can use to attack Western culture, and the gays and trannies are the ones who’ll suffer the backlash.”

    In both cases the Left has jumped on the bandwagon but of course it has been Gay activists pushing Gay marriage – even though virtually none of them want it – and it has been Trans people out there savaging people who don’t agree with them. Deirdre McCloskey is not a Leftist. MClocskey is Trans.

    “And, I should add, when he had his op, the only people who freaked out about it were the women who now had to share the company toilet with someone who used to be male.”

    Not used to be. Yeah. Who would have guessed that women would object to sharing a very private place with someone who is genetically male.

    Edward Lud – “And for those who haven’t yet looked – and with apologies in advance, I’m doing this on my ‘phone, so links aren’t easy – do google Veronica Bolina. I’m not too easily shocked, but was by what I saw.”

    Weren’t we all? But what is the source of the outrage here? Would this have been acceptable if the victim had been heterosexual? Or a woman? We see police brutality – all too common in Brazil. That is an outrage. But it is not a specifically anti-Trans outrage. This is a vulnerable person who needs protection. Not what was handed out. That protection is best given in an institution. Not throwing troubled people on the street and pretending they can cope.

    “The advantage of live and let live is that the solution to people with whom we don’t, for whatever reason, wish to associate, is not to associate with them. Perhaps that’s a lesson they need to learn, as well as the rest of us.”

    That time is past. We used to live in that sort of society. We do not any more. They will not let us live and let live. Ask Brendan Eich. We live in a society where this sort of thing is deemed normal:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lesbian-teacher-how-i-convince-kids-to-accept-gay-marriage-starting-at-4-ye

    And Ironman will call you names if you dare to dissent.

    “Sermon over, he says, visibly affected.”

    The SJW like to take extreme cases and then argue for as much as possible, well beyond what is reasonable, from that point. So because some farmers suffered in the Dust Bowl, we should endorse Communism. What the Brazilian police do to their own – in a society far more accepting of Trans people (just ask Ronaldo) – has nothing to say about Britain.

  50. Why has this gender change thing have become so suddenly inmportant.
    Apropops nothing – what of the tender thoughts for people missing legs and the like. They are ‘real’ people too.

  51. Er SMFS

    Take another look at your 7.55am posting yesterday. You are I’m afraid the last person who can complain about name – calling and the last person to try to deny others the right to tell you what a Thick.Racist.Prick you are.

  52. Nice try NiV, but you didn’t respond to what I wrote, did you? You responded to what you thought I’d written.
    I’ll take one line:

    “We don’t do the non-judgmental stuff because we don’t have views. We don’t judge lest we be Judged ourselves. We do it out of self-protection”

    You may. I don’t. I reserve not the right but the ability to do anything I damn well please. But I welcome & rely on the judgement & opinions of others to influence what that might be. If what I’m about is stupid & unwise, I may not of have appreciated it. Getting taken the piss out of can be an enlightening experience. I strongly recommend it.

  53. SMFS, you write that ‘they’ will not let us live and let live – and, in many cases, you’re right. Which is why I said ‘they’ also need to relearn the lesson. Just because as a society we’ve forgotten that lesson (if we ever learned it) doesn’t mean to say we shouldn’t be pushing back with by invoking precisely this principle. Above all, my sense is that most reactions against the LGBT thing are basically wearied, a combination of Get Over Yourselves and Can We Please Talk About Something Else? Indeed that’s pretty much my reaction, most of the time.

  54. “Nice try NiV, but you didn’t respond to what I wrote, did you? You responded to what you thought I’d written.”

    I responded to what you wrote, but perhaps not in the way you wanted me to.

    You see it as a fight between SJWs and, for want of a better word, traditionalists. I see it as a fight between libertarians in the middle and the two sets of authoritarians in both camps.

    You say: “The Trans lobby is doing all it can to make sure people like me become extinct.” Wrong! It’s the authoritarians among the trans who are doing that, just as it’s the authoritarians among the traditionalists who made trans lives a misery before. Authoritarians don’t much care about the actual issues they latch on to – it’s all about getting power over other people. They pick whatever sort of moral issues and resentments that they know “useful idiots” will support – letting people’s prejudices overrule their caution. Ironically, it’s often the reaction to their last campaign that they latch onto for the new one.

    As you say, the people supporting the new wave of SJWs are in for a shock. Just as you have been, now that the boot is on the other foot.

    “You may. I don’t.”

    Of course. But then, I don’t count you as “one of us”, do I? By which I mean liberal/libertarian.

    In your Brave New World, you appear to be arguing for a “If you can’t beat them, join them” stance. OK then. It’s clear enough which side you’re on.

  55. I think you’re getting a bit confused with who you’re writing at there, NiV. I’ve never said anything remotely like “The Trans lobby is doing all it can to make sure people like me become extinct.” . The particular member of the lobby I regularly meet hasn’t yet, anyway. But I do become concerned with authoritarians like you. If someone thinks I’m being a cnut, I’d rather they didn’t feel inhibited from calling me a cnut. For I may indeed be behaving as a cnut. And it might be in my interest to find out.

  56. My big takeaway from recent posts on here is how angry Ironman is. Get some help before you have a stroke (and I speak as a doctor).

  57. I don’t think anybody is contesting the fellow’s (lassie’s) right to have surgical procedures to bring his/her body mor ein line with his/her emotions etc etc.

    Might not be too happy at having to pay for them if that were the case.

    Plus might very well object to her competing as a women in the olympics when it is quite apparent that his/her physique in terms of size and strength is clearly that of a man.

    Or else we could simply do away with mens and women’s events and effectively do away with the delightful sight of the Australian ladies triathlon team in their sexy little nothings as they would no longer be compeitiive, and that would be a shame.

  58. Andrew
    April 26, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    My big takeaway from recent posts on here is how angry Ironman is.

    ====================

    It’s IronPERSON, DAMMIT!!!

  59. Pingback: Apparently | Longrider

  60. bloke (not) in spain:

    If someone thinks I’m being a cnut, I’d rather they didn’t feel inhibited from calling me a cnut. For I may indeed be behaving as a cnut. And it might be in my interest to find out.

    Seconded….

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