So child prostitution is OK now, is it?

South Yorkshire Police were twice warned about the widespread sexual exploitation of children in Rotherham more than a decade ago but ignored the claims because many of the victims were seen as little more than prostitutes, it has emerged.

Fresh evidence has emerged of the extent to which the authorities knew that gangs were grooming and abusing girls.

At least two reports, the first in 2003 and then three years later in 2006, warned that the problem was getting out of control with gangs of mainly Pakistani men targeting young vulnerable girls.

But nothing was done by the authorities because the victims were discounted by the police and social workers and were regarded as little more than prostitutes, according to Alan Billings, the local Police Crime Commissioner.

Officer, those kids over there are child prostitutes!”

“Yes, that’s OK sir, they’re child prostitutes!”

67 comments on “So child prostitution is OK now, is it?

  1. Well yes, terrible choice of words there. But at the risk- nay, inevitability- of inspiring the ire of the Ironman, I think that reading between the lines here what was actually the case was that many of these child victims were what we used to call “wayward” teenagers who were anyone’s for 20 Bensons. It is generally ignored, but noteworthy, that the official report sadly describes how many of them- despite significant pressure from counsellors, social workers, police etc- refused to accept that they were victims of anything.

    Hence as I said before, be very cautious of the aggregate number of victims. It is the number of cases of girls known in some way to the authorities who had sex below the age of 18, not the number of rapes, etc.

  2. Well Nick Griffin tried to do something about it and got arrested for his troubles. Serve him right. He should have realized that far as Guardianistas are concerned, grooming is OK if you’ve got brown skin.

  3. ‘Dr Billings said police at the time simply did not understand that grooming constituted child abuse.

    ‘We were ok with it until you came up with a fancy name for it, and now, coops, our bad!’

  4. Yorkshire Police “Services” seem to have lost their way a bit.

    The Westies appear to have become the military wing of the BBC and the Southies appear to be the procurement and protection wing of Pakistani brothels.

  5. Abusing (adult) prostitutes is a near universal “perk” of the bluebottles job worldwide. It is very unlikely that the UK blues (as much as I dislike them) have a taste for child prostitutes anymore than ordinary men. In this case their leftist masters were telling them to ignore and look the other way and this is just another rationalisation to excuse themselves in their own minds.

  6. Careful Timothy.

    We know, because Ironman the Borebarian has spoken, that anyone who raises this issue is really doing it as a cover for his or her hatred of ‘muzzies’ (a word only he uses), and is thus just a Thick.Racist.Prick who requires shouting down, denouncing and harrassing.

  7. In case anyone doubts what Ian’s saying there, there was an estate in Hackney ( or Islington – borders) I used to visit, back in the early ’90s – bloody shithole of a place – I got propositioned by very young girls several times. Some looked barely in their teens. And, being in my forties at the time, I’m guessing I’d be profiling as their regular trade. That & up, I’d guess, being the market goes looking for young meat.
    The offer was usually “suck you off?” but I imagine the full works was probably on offer. Or maybe a mugging, ’cause you don’t really know what you’re buying, do you?

  8. How much was abuse/grooming and how much was survival sex-work for those in precarious situations (e.g. runaways, council care) and in need of income?

  9. In fairness, the joys of multiculturalism were new to Britain. There had always been runaways but Britain used to be a fairly decent place. The mass grooming and brutalisation by people from a brutal and backward culture was outside everyone’s expectations.

    But still we have not learned. Now we are going to have a flood of Syrians to rape some more 12 year olds. And Ironman will froth at the mouth at the suggestion that this is not perfectly proper and righteous.

  10. Well one way of looking at this is that it is what happens when girls from a sexually loose culture (Anglo proletariat) crash into men from a Middle Eastern one (everyone outside your kin group is fair game for plunder).

    Which IIRC David Starkey tried to say but was shouted down as a thick.racist.prick.

    Clan cultures are predicated on women being protected by their clan group, and the price of that protection is the responsibility to be sexually chaste. Members of other clan groups are their males responsibility, and if you can get your hands (or other bodily parts) on one, that’s fine. There are no universalised values in the sense of the same rights applying to all human beings.

    If a non-kin man touches your daughter, you kill him. But if you can get your hands on his…

  11. To add to the comment above:
    It’s experiences like this make me very suspicious of the number of girls involved keeps being touted.
    The nearest street market to my home in North London was Lordship Park/Manor Road. Until the cruising blitz chased the street girls off. The only other pitches within striking distance, I’m aware of, were back of Kings Cross station round Goods Way. The Lordships might offer 4 or 5 on a busy night. The Cross girls…maybe 20 at times. Harlesden had some working girls, hung about. I’m a Cockney, so what goes on south of the river remains, thankfully, a mystery.
    I’ve just stuck N4 postal code into the Adult Work search engine with a three mile radius & only come up with 250 profiles. Half of those will be dead & half the rest will actually be off area. Despite the post code they’ve profiled they’re touting right across the West End.
    OK. I’m not looking at agencies, phonebox cards & fag shop ads but see how few working girls I’m coming up withR And this is 30 odd square miles of the capital city. You could lose Rotherham in it & not notice. And this is everything from cheap scrubbers to quality hooker.
    It’s not the girls I have trouble with. I really wouldn’t be surprised if their were a few thousand teens on the patch would be only too happy to turn tricks for a few quid. But where the hell are the punters? Because numbers of working girls working is a damn good indicator of punters punting. How many punters are going to be interested in youngsters? I just reset the parameters on AW from all-comers to >21. And, let’s be honest. This is hookerdom. There’ll be 30 y/os pitching as 21. Thirty-one. That’s how many.
    And that’s the problem I’m having with Pakis pimping Rotherham totty. To sell the meat you need a market to sell the meat into. It’s implying every Aziz & his cousin are buying on a regular basis. So why isn’t there the same problem over in our Pakiland in the E postal codes? We’re not exactly short of them.
    Doesn’t make sense to me.

  12. Great post Tom. You’ve brought all.my favourite people onto one thread and left.them to try to figure out how they all agree with each other.

    “Shouting down, denouncing and harrassing”. All by myself! You seem to think an awful lot of me.

  13. This was always a child prostitution issue. That is how it was treated by the councils and the police. The official term is “child sexual exploitation”, which has confused a lot of the reporting, but for the professionals involved that’s just a euphemism.

    Doesn’t make it OK. But it is very hard to police, particularly in an environment where consensual underage sex is routinely winked at.

  14. AnomalyUK

    Well, if you think that ‘consensual’ sex with underage girls isn’t necessarily wrong….

    Or maybe it is wrong and it happens on this scale in this country only when certain non-whites types are involved.

    Or maybe it’s not wrong, but is wrong when the men involved are from certain non-whites backgrounds.

    You know, it can be hard to know what certain people think on this topic. That is, hard to know what certain people, who would otherwise regard themselves as pretty fearless, think.

  15. Maybe, Ian, the full.stops are pauses to.wipe the foam from the corners of the mouth.

    You do, Ironman, give the impression of having been brought up on the sound stage of the Archers (As does SMfS at times. But he doesn’t seem to have read the scripts) Do you not think it might be better to leave the conversation to those who’ve had some experience of this rather grubby world, without interjecting?

    But
    “You know, it can be hard to know what certain people think on this topic. That is, hard to know what certain people, who would otherwise regard themselves as pretty fearless, think”

    I mostly live in a country where the AoC is 12. Their country, their laws, their business. So I am dealing with real life decision stuff here. Not fantasyland. Would I? Well I’d want to check the caveats on that law. Which I’ve never bothered to. But why not? If I genuinely believed that’s what she wanted & no harm would result. And I’ve every reason to believe, from experience, there’s 12 year olds would satisfy that criteria. Because not all of them grew up on the sound stage of Los Arqueros. Some of them have more experience of the world than I have. But I haven’t. And I’m not likely to. No interest in 12 year olds.

    Will that satisfy you?

  16. Well, that can’t apply to me, since nobody has been more clear about what they think on this and related issues, and endeavoured to explain my reasoning, despite some thick.pompous.cunt just calling me names in response.

  17. Let’s be clear what happened. Groups of men in particular towns and all from one particular ethnic background did NOT force themselves on white girls. Instead they became the boyfriends of white girls in those towns, most often from vulnerable backgrounds and most definitely usually under the legal age of consent in the UK.

    Although this was illegal the police and local councils – always Labour – in those towns, for reasons of politics or careerism, chose to ignore what was happening. If talking about it directly they would describe it as “prostitution”. So the men carried on targeting these girls and even transporting then to different towns where they would introduce them to male friends, for a fee.

    Now Bloke in Spain and IanB don’t think the term ‘Child Prostitution’ is appropriate, preferring just ‘prostitution’ or perhaps ‘ girlfriends’ (?)

    Meanwhile Mr Ecks and SMFS have previously been very loud about this subject, indicating that the cultural and ethnic background of these non -whites was a major contributory factor on this scandal.

    Yet SMFS and Mr Ecks seem unable to offer any view at all on IanB’s take on life and love. By the same token, I have never read any comment from IanB on SMFS’ racial theory of child sex grooming.

    What do I conclude? That you’re full of it.

  18. This is why I can’t be bothered arguing with you any more Ironman. It’s like you don’t understand a word I write. If I wrote that the sky is blue, you’d start denouncing me for declaring the sky to be red, and then just denounce me for having some suspicious motive. It’s pointless.

    Look, I know you’re not stupid, or not particularly stupid anyway. It’s just that you’re incapable of standing back from your emotional certainties. This is quite normal in humans; we all have a taboo system in our head that gets values plugged into it, and we find it virtually impossible to think straight when it kicks in.

    But at least try to understand what I’m saying when you read my comments, if you’re going to respond to them.

  19. And I didn’t expect the play-the-man response!

    Better than talking about the subject matter here isn’t it.

  20. Any time you start talking about the issues and stop playing the man I’m all ears, Rusty.

  21. Oh I think what happened was revolting and the men are rapists. I think the ethnic grouping from which they come is in denial and its members will never be able to take a full place in UK society until it faces this issue directly. I think the local authorities, councillors, socualservice ‘professionals’ and police should never be allowed anywhere near social services, the police, local government or any public office again. And I think this isn’t an aberration, it sums up what Labour is today.

    Actually you haven’t spoken on this before, not when Mr Ecks or SMFS are speaking. So do so now!! What do you think?

  22. Maybe they’re out doing something else, for fuck’s sake.

    If you look up the thread, you’ll notice that I’ve already given an opinion. What I didn’t do was try to explain an aggregation of hundreds of incidents, without proper data, based on, um, it’s all the fault of the Labour Party. Or whatever you think you’re saying.

  23. No you haven’t. You’ve talked about being wary of agree gating and ‘clan cultures’ and everything to avoid say whether you think the men should be regarded as rapists, the girls as victims, etc. In short, you’re wriggling again.

    Now, I don’t think my opinion is unclear. What bits do you agree with? What bits do you reject? Front up.

  24. Do you really think that you can give an aggregate description to 1400 or more cases? Where a man has raped a woman by definition he is a rapist and she is a victim. That’s tautologically true. Where they have had consensual sex, he is not a rapist and she is not a victim. I have no idea how many of these cases are in which category, and niether do you, since the aggregate figure consists of every girl known to social services under 18, as I said.

    I think you want me to say that every sexual encounter under the age of consent is rape, and you already know that I do not agree with that statement. I have already made it clear that I do not believe that human agency (sexual or otherwise) switches on on a person’s 18th birthday- ironically the law agrees with that in not only not prosecuting cases where both are underage (as yet, expect it to change) but in assigning legal responsibility at the age of 10(!).

    The funny thing is that here we see taboo poker going on, which is the inverse of victimhood poker. You’re normally the first to denounce people as racist, but when a greater taboo (your obsession with underage sex) activates, you’re happy to join in with a simplistic racial profiling. Interesting isn’t it?

  25. It may or may be “simplistic”; it is, however, simple fact that the perpetrators were of Pakistani origin and the victims were, by a large majority, white. I have never shied away from stating the simple fact.

    Now at least we do have, for the first time in THIS context, a statement from you that these men have done nothing wrong unless the sex was forced. Which is funny; because whenever SMFS or Mr Ecks have been ranting about non-white men raping young girls being the inevitable result of our immigration policy because they’re not civilised white people, you are always very, very quiet. Yes I denounce them as racist; you keep quiet.

    Your friends may be “out FFS”; they may not be. They remain very quiet though.

  26. I actually addressed the cultural issue above, and suggested a reason for the phenomenon in those terms.

    As to the numbers; from reading the report, clearly some of the girls refused to declare themselves victims despite considerable pressure and considered themselves to be in relationships, which was simply dismissed as their foolishness. I find this troubling, since as I keep saying, the headline figure is every girl known to social services which the review thought, from the case notes, might be part of the phenomenon, not “1400 rapes”. This might include a 16 or 17 year old with a slightly older Asian boyfriend for instance.

    There were clearly some very bad things that happened, including rapes. There were also quite clearly what we now call “safeguarding” issues. But I am not at all convinced by the argument that everyone was turning a blind eye on orders based on political correctness. As discussed by myself and B(n)IS above, “wayward” teenage girls is hardly a new phenomenon; it is only under (ironically) PC that it is now verboten to suggest anything than that every girl is an innocent ingenue led astray. So how much of it was police dealing with the reality of that, we don’t know, but considering the quote that started this off, it seems to have been quote a lot.

    It’s just reality; among the urban proletariat, morals do not conform to those of Hampstead. I’ll give a personal example; a while ago I was on the dole and had to sign on at the same time as this chatty woman who SMFS would not unreasonably consider a scrounging chav. She had no intention of ever working, and talked mainly (despite my disinterested body language and grunted replies) about her two daughter, who were the light of her life. Both had themselves had children underage, and she was proud as punch of her rapidly expanding family.

    One day, ignoring her she started on at the man sitting the other side of me, talking past me, and he seemed more enthusiastic about the conversation. So at one point, to break the monotony, I came out with the Believe It Or Not youngest ever mother age from Wikipedia. They both went silent for a beat or two, and then she went, “oh, well that’s a bit too young, isn’t it?”.

    We really do need to take such things into account before rushing to simple judgements on complex social issues.

  27. Ironman says “Let’s be clear what happened. Groups of men in particular towns and all from one particular ethnic background did NOT force themselves on white girls. Instead they became the boyfriends of white girls in those towns, most often from vulnerable backgrounds” & later “Oh I think what happened was revolting and the men are rapists.”

    None of this is clear at all. It’s just what a lot of people, who’ve no idea what actually happened, are saying.
    Let’s for a start leave AoC matters out of this. It may be the law, but as girls under sixteen aren’t fitted with chastity belts & a license to be applied for in triplicate to get the key, the law is totally & utterly irrelevant. The girls concerned aren’t interested, are they? The law’s simply a finger to point after the fact.
    Now “…most often from vulnerable backgrounds” In who’s opinions? I’ll tell you, Ironman, if it’s a matter of vulnerable backgrounds, it’s Ironman I’d be worried about. There’s teen girls off of estates’d eat you alive & spit out the pips.
    It’s one of the reasons I have problems with this Pakistani men grooming girls for sex thing. i start wondering who were the victims here. Some streetwise little sluts or some naive villagers from Peshawar?
    Like I commented above. The market will supply. If there’s a market for hot totty in Northern towns, there’ll be hot totty stampeding north to supply it. Why would one try & recruit for a saturated market?

  28. Ironman: “whenever SMFS or Mr Ecks have been ranting about non-white men raping young girls being the inevitable result of our immigration policy because they’re not civilised white people, you are always very, very quiet. Yes I denounce them as racist; you keep quiet.”

    You are broadcasting from off planet again chum. Please point out where I have made any such statement. Not that I give a rat’s arse for your waaycist whining. If you re-read my posts–and I am sure you will not as you certainly did not read them to begin with-my main point on this topic was to cast doubt on Ian’s belief that maybe the Rotherham etc affair was exaggerated. My point all along was that I tend to doubt it because the usual leftist scum who are shouting up the supposed crimes of the old white men have maintained stony silence over the activities of the RoP congregation.

    “Oh I think what happened was revolting and the men are rapists. I think the ethnic grouping from which they come is in denial and its members will never be able to take a full place in UK society until it faces this issue directly. I think the local authorities, councillors, socualservice ‘professionals’ and police should never be allowed anywhere near social services, the police, local government or any public office again. And I think this isn’t an aberration, it sums up what Labour is today.”

    Your own words.

    “what happened was revolting and the men are rapists. I think the ethnic grouping from which they come is in denial and its members will never be able to take a full place in UK society until it faces this issue directly.”

    Sounds pretty waycist to me. Just a mealy-mouth milk-and-water way of saying it that’s all.

    Just to clarify the point. I don’t care what colour people are. I do care what kind of people and what kind of culture they are from. I have no hesitation in declaring Western culture–or what it used to be –the best civilisation on the planet and the only one to have regard for individual freedom. It is that regard for freedom that has made wealthy and powerful to begin with. With the rise of statism and socialism we have prepared our own death sentence and even a hysterical loon like yourself is playing your own small part in our downfall. But we may yet go out will a bang rather than a whimper.

  29. And like I said, I originally addressed the culture issue and why it may have caused this phenomenon. Maybe my description of Middle Eastern culture as “any girl outside your kin is fair game” was written in terms too polite to indicate that I wasn’t admiring that cultural value.

  30. Trouble is, Ian, let’s be honest. “Any girl outside your kin is fair game” has been written in fine pencil in every Brit military pay book ever issued. Not to mention included in the small print in the contracts of civvies headed where the lassies are tinted.
    It’s not exactly an exclusive Mid East custom.

  31. B(n)IS-

    No, it’s not the same thing. It’s fair game for plunder and rapine, not fair game for a bit of legover.

  32. B(N)IS: I don’t follow your meaning. Are you suggesting that dicking 12 year-old girls is a long-standing custom of the British Army?. Evidence/examples please.

  33. This is something hilarious about Brits. Talk to them about prostitution in their own country & it”s all tut, tut & sucking teeth & what me? Never!
    They get away from the place, flash a shiny little Latina past their eyes & their wallets come out so fast they heat with air friction. But of course, tasty tanned girls don’t count, do they?

  34. I’ll tell you what. No-one has ever asked me the Spanish for “Are you over eighteen?”

  35. I have no doubt the Army has shagged nearly as many as it has killed –but again–are you saying that the British Army makes a habit of shagging 12 year old girls?. There may be some that young who look older–altho’ I doubt many 12 year olds could pass for full adult today let alone in the past– and yes–outside the barrack gate few questions are likely asked –but are you saying that the British soldiers systematically seek out 12 year old girls?

  36. So that’s settled then. Everyone here doubts the Rotherham story is true and I must have been imagining the long line of posts that screamed about the political.correctness that caused it. Nope, just never happened on this blog.
    And that Nigel Farage heh. What an opportunistic scumbag he must be, heading up to Rotherham to make political capital out of a non- problem. Yep, people like him should be denied the space to spread their crap.

    And SMFS, still so very very quiet.

  37. Iron: You seem to have mastered reading apart from the comprehension bit. If you want to talk to yourself please stop wasting electrons and do it in your own home.

  38. There was a little comedy used to play nightly at a club I know. Back then they had a tiny Romanian-says-she’s-Italian, stood about 4’10” in her fishnets & whatever her paperwork said, could have passed for anything from 15 downwards. The middle-aged overweight Brit golfers spotted her, it was like putting strawberry jam down in front of wasps. So she’d swat one & drag him upstairs in the lift. They used to come back down looking haunted. She’d get through half a dozen on a good night. Heaven knows what she put them through but some came back for seconds. Maybe they didn’t believe the first time round.

    Dunno. Your guess is as good as mine. Point might be, did they much care?

  39. I’m signing off for tonight as I appear to have wandered into the episode of the Twilight Zone (or the Outer Limits) were everybody start talking gibberish whenever the protagonist says anything.

  40. The title of the post was “so child prostitution is OK now is it?”

    And the answer seems to be “Yes it is. Though we would prefer not to refer to them as children”.

  41. Ironman – “You know, it can be hard to know what certain people think on this topic. That is, hard to know what certain people, who would otherwise regard themselves as pretty fearless, think.”

    It is only hard when you are so full of self righteous rage you don’t bother to actually read what anyone else writes.

  42. Ironman – “Let’s be clear what happened. Groups of men in particular towns and all from one particular ethnic background did NOT force themselves on white girls.”

    I am sorry Ironman, but in what sense do 12 year old girls consent to anything? In what sense is it not forcing yourself on a girl to groom her into agreeing when she is too young to be able to form an opinion? You do accept that this is not merely rape but rape rape, right?

    “If talking about it directly they would describe it as “prostitution”.”

    Actually no. The police seem to have taken the B(n)is line that girls will be girls and some of them will have boyfriends.

    “Yet SMFS and Mr Ecks seem unable to offer any view at all on IanB’s take on life and love.”

    If you have not heard me object to IanB’s views on child sex you are not paying attention.

    “What do I conclude? That you’re full of it.”

    Says the Pot calling the Kettle Afro-Caribbean.

    Ironman – “I think the ethnic grouping from which they come is in denial and its members will never be able to take a full place in UK society until it faces this issue directly.”

    And why do you think they are in denial? It is not as if they were unaware of this problem. It is common in their own homelands. Protecting female purity is a central obsession of a lot of the cultures they come from – and by all accounts, a central obsession of their own home lives in many cases. So why do you think they are denying all knowledge or responsibility?

    “And I think this isn’t an aberration, it sums up what Labour is today.”

    And yet you continue to be part of the problem not merely by endorsing their politically correct bullying of anyone who speaks out, but actually taking part in this leftist SJW Rage Theatre.

    Ironman – “Meanwhile SMFS, Mr Ecks, Interested, your silence is deafening.”

    Sure. We are waiting orders from the Grand Kleagle.

    Ironman – “It may or may be “simplistic”; it is, however, simple fact that the perpetrators were of Pakistani origin and the victims were, by a large majority, white. I have never shied away from stating the simple fact.”

    Actually shying away is precisely what you have been doing. When you are not busy denouncing anyone who points that out as a racist.

    You continue to claim that anyone who says there is a link between what these immigrants did and their culture is a racist. Which is odd. Can we agree that if we let a million Pakistanis into the country, we will get more hallal slaughter? Is that racist? Can we agree if we let a million Pakistanis into the country we will get more honour killings? Is that racist? How about suicide bombings?

    The fact is grooming and raping young non-Muslim girls is very common across the Muslim world and usually leads to non-Muslims adopting Muslim customs where the two live together. So the India of the Kama-sutra becomes the India of purdah. The Spanish adopt veiling. The Greeks honour killing. It may outrage our little Guardianista Rage Monster to say so but it is true and it will remain true no matter how purple Ironman’s face becomes.

    Ironman – “And SMFS, still so very very quiet.”

    It is all part of the plot.

  43. I would urge anyone joining this thread late to read from top to bottom
    You will, first, that these supposedly honest people needed to have their views dragged out of them. And second, such is their apparent desire to receive affirmation- even in an online forum – they will leave a gap of hours before posting anything that doesn’t accord with each other. SMFS left it till past midnight before slipping disagreement with IanB into a rant against me.

    This has been fun!

  44. Jeez! Now we’ve got both the Archers siblings squabbling.

    SMfS. When did the Spanish women adopt the veil? Last time I looked, they seemed to be keener on the thong.
    Or are you talking about the time the English women had adopted the veil. And the French. And every other European country got infected with the Roman strain of Catholicism?

    And did no-one tell you the Indians who practice purdah are generally a whole different people from the ones get off to the Kama Sutra. Indian isn’t a culture. It’s a nationality. There’s several cultures in India. Several totally separate peoples.

  45. Ironman – “And second, such is their apparent desire to receive affirmation- even in an online forum – they will leave a gap of hours before posting anything that doesn’t accord with each other.”

    At some point you will have to accept this is an issue for the mental health professionals. Your problem. Deal with it.

    bloke (not) in spain – “When did the Spanish women adopt the veil? Last time I looked, they seemed to be keener on the thong.”

    These days they probably are. I am not sure how late the veil was normal for Spanish women. As late as the 17th century? Sure. Gabriel Garcia Marquez said that the Spanish-origin women of his childhood did not leave the home.

    “And did no-one tell you the Indians who practice purdah are generally a whole different people from the ones get off to the Kama Sutra. Indian isn’t a culture. It’s a nationality. There’s several cultures in India. Several totally separate peoples.”

    And the north is much more hostile to women than the south. As any traveller will tell you. The north having been ruled by Muslims for a long time.

  46. ” As late as the 17th century? ”
    Contemporary with English witch burnings? Riiiight. Yes SMfS. Obviously. Something.

    Do yourself a favour. Go read Indian history. You need to.

  47. You will, first, that these supposedly honest people needed to have their views dragged out of them.

    This is ludicrous. Nobody has been more clear and straightforward about their opinions than myself. In contrast to you own euphemistic slurs and refusal to ever engage directly with any point I have made. Do you ever interface with reality, Ironman? I’m begining to think you’re ripe for a Downfall spoof.

    Part of the problem by the way is your constant use of “have you stopped beating your wife?” style questions, and then claiming people are being evasive by not answering them with a yes or no. Try being decent in debate and discussion for once.

    Nobody here is a bloc. Some of us agree on various issues. SMFS and I, if you read the blog generally, are poles apart on many. You are paranoid and seem to be lurching into conspiracy theory to justify your failure to grasp why anyone disagrees with you.

    When do you plan to start accusing everyone of being shills for Big Oil?

  48. Tell you MrB. I’m starting to suspect. The Man of Steel. SMfS. Both. They’re aficionados of underage hookers. The pair of them. Of course they’re not thrusting their throbbing members into white English tots. Oh no. Better quench them in tight moist places of another culture. Don’t count, you see. Not a sin. Probably these Thai nailbar girls are all the rage these days.
    It;’s guilt. That’s what it is. Suppressed guilt

  49. Protecting female purity is a central obsession of a lot of the cultures they come from – and by all accounts, a central obsession of their own home lives in many cases. So why do you think they are denying all knowledge or responsibility?

    Which comes back to my initial point that this phenomenon owes a lot to people from clan cultures unleashed into a universal values host culture. In clan cultures, it is about protecting the purity of your own women; non-clan members are literally fair game. Ingroup and outgroup.

    For the life of me I can’t fathom whether Ironman even agrees with this or disagrees with it. Is it racist.to.say that cultures have different values and that a culture which teaches that outgroup women are available plunder is going to rape a lot within a universal values culture? Perhaps he could clarify.

  50. B(n)IS-

    No, SMFS is a pretty much canonical conservative and Ironman is a confused Social Justice hysteric. If SMFS sees a pretty 16 year old girl, he’ll just walk on by due to his moral values. Ironman will come out in a fit of hives and go home and beat himself with nettles until he feels his sinful thoughts have gone away.

  51. “it is about protecting the purity of your own women;”

    But this works both ways. It’s what I keep hearing. Those nasty, nasty, (whatever we’re supposed to call them’s) working their evil ways with our innocent, sweet children. They’re animals. All of them.

    FFS!

    I don’t believe that any more than I believe all the little scrubbers i see hanging around are purest angels behind the plastered on mascara & wired bras.

  52. By the way. i just checked Adult Work for the Rotherham area. Emphasis on under 21s.
    Usual bunch of tryers offering all the usual inducements.
    You can rent one for £40 by just picking up the phone.
    Why would you go to all the trouble of grooming them?
    Poodles, maybe. Nice dogs.

  53. But this works both ways. It’s what I keep hearing. Those nasty, nasty, (whatever we’re supposed to call them’s) working their evil ways with our innocent, sweet children. They’re animals. All of them.

    Yes, that’s the point I’ve been making for a long time. The origins of the puritan view in the West extend through various elements of Christianity back to the Middle East. And at times of sexual panic like this, it tends to predominate. This is why the Proggie Left are so fond of Islam, and we had Dave saying we need to become more like British Asians.

  54. Hence my theory about the Archers Two.
    Religious guilt.
    Guilt I tell you!
    Guilt
    They’ll be lashing themselves with chains, next.

  55. Ian,

    > But I am not at all convinced by the argument that everyone was turning a blind eye on orders based on political correctness.

    It’s not an argument. It’s a recorded fact. The woman who wrote one of the earlier reports revealing what was going on was sent on a compulsory “diversity” “awareness” course for her trouble.

    BNIS,

    > None of this is clear at all. It’s just what a lot of people, who’ve no idea what actually happened, are saying.

    No. Just no. There are a lot of commenters here, you included, who like to insist that this is all guesswork and no-one knows what happened. In fact, people have repeatedly spent lots of effort looking into it in depth, and have all independently reached the same conclusions. That, remember, is a large part of the scandal: not only that it was ignored once, but that it was revealed and ignored and revealed and ignored and revealed and ignored again.

    I am cynical about social services and social workers myself. But this is simply not a case of one lone social worker with a weird obsession going off on one with no evidence. Unrelated, independent people investigated this again and again, and all reached the same conclusions, despite the fact that, to the extent that social workers do have ideological bias, that bias runs contrary to their findings.

    > This is something hilarious about Brits. Talk to them about prostitution in their own country & it”s all tut, tut & sucking teeth & what me? Never!
    They get away from the place, flash a shiny little Latina past their eyes & their wallets come out so fast they heat with air friction.

    Er, speak for yourself, I’m sure.

    > You can rent one for £40 by just picking up the phone.
    > Why would you go to all the trouble of grooming them?

    When airport full-body scanners were first introduced, it was pointed out that they enabled operators to see people’s naked bodies. The machines’ designers rationally responded that this was not a problem because the images were simply not remotely pornographic. And then they discovered that some operators were taking pictures home for pleasure. So the design was changed, and the operators no longer have access to the actual images.

    The designers’ initial response was completely rational, and certainly made sense to me at the time, because I was foolishly forgetting that people aren’t rational. Why look at one blurry monochrome picture of a person standing still with their arms by their sides, with vague ghosts of their clothes visible, when hardcore porn is just a couple of clicks away, for free? The answer, of course, is that the sort of people who did exactly that valued the facts that they had had direct contact with the person in the image — maybe they’d frisked them — and that the person in the image had not volunteered. Context matters.

    In short, your argument only makes sense if you assume that all the rapists wanted was sex. People, however, are a bit more complicated than that.

  56. “But this is simply not a case of one lone social worker with a weird obsession going off on one with no evidence. Unrelated, independent people investigated this again and again, and all reached the same conclusions,”

    Christ! We’ve been here enough times already, haven’t we? What’s the latest one? Celebrities who may have been touching up over the AoC females forty years ago?

    SQ2, prostitution’s an act. Like any sex act. The only way you can be sure what’s happened is to be there. Preferably recording video & audio. Beyond this, everything is allegations, supposition & hear say. That’s why it’s actually quite hard to nail tarts & punters for soliciting. Or was, until they threw away most of the requirements for actual evidence.
    What gets me is the whole basis of this relies on evidence extracted from individuals everyone & particularly the law, regards as too young to know their own minds on whether to have or sell sex. So what makes you think they know their own minds about anything else?

  57. The other thing is none of it makes any sense.
    Why are girls being groomed when there’ll be enough girls out there, hot to trot, without the necessity.
    Secondly, having groomed a couple of hundred of 13 y/o’s for some hot trotting – & F. knows what you’d do with 200., if you had them; it’s finding the paying customers is the problem – you’ve got two-hundred hot trotting girls all slavering at the bit to trot. And they’ll get better with practice. You could run these for two or three years & they’d still be thirteen to the paying customer. Then you can switch them to the much more remunerative adult stable.
    Why are you going out grooming up another bunch.
    Thirdly, how do you make any money out of this. Sorry. How do you afford to finance doing your hobby. Because, believe me, the returns are going to be zilch. You’re competing against those hot to trot girls, didn’t need grooming & aren’t carry you as an expensive overhead.

    Don’t know how many times I have to say this. All your assumptions are wrong. No-one has ever made a cent controlling prostitutes unless there’s a shortage of prostitutes. And, failing some imposed market restriction. there never is. I’d lay money the the cherished beloved of at least two of the commenters on this thread have sold or seriously contemplated selling their assets. I know about one. It’s men who have trouble with the idea of paying a tart. Hits them in their self regard, forking out for something should be thrust at them free. Women don’t have that problem. They’re getting paid for something they’re otherwise giving away.

  58. What a lot of straw men. Celebrities doing stuff forty years ago, the difficulties of making profit out of prostitution, the pointlessness of grooming children for prostitution when you already have adult prostitutes. Fascinating stuff. And none of it has anything to do with what actually happened, which was men grooming and sexually abusing children in order to rape them.

    You appear not to believe that rape can happen if there’s no money in it. You are also obsessed with men paying for sex. Well, which is it? That men will pay for sex or that the very idea that a man might have committed rape is absurd if it wouldn’t have made him any money?

  59. OK SQ. Then you tell me why there’d be wholesale, not occasional, grooming of young girls for sex? With all the very serious risks involved. And the considerable expense. Over a protracted period. When you can get a better result by simply picking up the phone.
    Now I’ve got a much more likely explanation. There are a few lassies. Some of them underage. Who see an opportunity to make some dosh putting out for Asian guys want a bit of nooky. And having latched onto their goldseam they get the guys to tout their services far & wide. And this will go on, over a period of years. As girls fade out & new ones replace them. Users come & go. Maybe some of the girls later regret & bubble it. Some of the girl’s circle of friends, not participating, do the same. But when anybody tries to pin it down it always evapourates. Isolated difficult to prove cases. Lassies who’ll lie to protect themselves, their friends. In either direction. There was nothing happening or nasty men made me/her do it. Depending on requirements. Because that’s what kids, for that matter adults, do.
    And yes, then there’s the wall of silence from the Asian community. Like there is about vote rigging & all the rest. So there’s no help from that direction. And yes, there’s no enthusiasm to pursue it by certain parties. For political reasons.
    And now everyone’s running round, covering their backs, trying to prove how diligent they are in identifying every possible case. And turning up the Rotherham version of the girl was assaulted by the celebrity at the concert never happened at the city he never played. Except there’s not even any evidence can show things that didn’t happen, didn’t. Read Anna Racoon for manufactured memories.
    I just don’t believe it’s all white on one side & all black on the other. I certainly don’t buy the purported scale.

    I look for the money angle because setting up a charitable institution to groom white chicks for brown blokes seems such a ludicrous suggestion. Because take the money incentive away & why would anybody do it? What is it, a free educational lending library?

    Or there’s another, more simple explanation, altogether. It’s simply young white girls putting out for Asian guys because they like them & they like to fuck. OK. It’s legally rape. But so bloody what? What do you think happens in the real world every day of the week? That underage girls don’t fuck & tend to do so with older guys who’re more attractive than the spotty kid in their class? Like kids don’t smoke or drink underage. or score dope? That kids ignoring the law isn’t normal?
    Hilarious.

    Obsession with the sex industry? I find it fascinating how almost everything believed about it is pure myth. And that understanding it depends on understanding the economics it runs on. I’m seriously considering writing a book on it.

  60. bloke (not) in spain – “Contemporary with English witch burnings? Riiiight. Yes SMfS. Obviously. Something.”

    Sorry but what possible point do you think you are making? The Arabs have not ruled Spain for a long time. Not since, oh, about the time that people discovered America. What possible link do you think there is between what I said and whatever point you are making?

    “Do yourself a favour. Go read Indian history. You need to.”

    No I don’t. Because you are so keen to flame you have not bothered to understand.

    bloke (not) in spain – “Tell you MrB. I’m starting to suspect. The Man of Steel. SMfS. Both.”

    Busted! Me, Ironman, IanB, GlenDorran, Van_Patten, Steve and Arnald are actually all the same person.

    “They’re aficionados of underage hookers. The pair of them. Of course they’re not thrusting their throbbing members into white English tots. Oh no. Better quench them in tight moist places of another culture. Don’t count, you see. Not a sin. Probably these Thai nailbar girls are all the rage these days. It;’s guilt. That’s what it is. Suppressed guilt”

    Oh huh. Look, you are rapidly moving into Arnald territory. The only person who insists that this is about prostitution is you. You always bring the Rotherham discussion back to the same issue. As far as I can see, no one else does. OK, I get it. You are shacked up with a Third World hooker. It takes all sorts. Some people like that sort of thing. I am not judgmental. But it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. This is not about under-age prostitution. Although if it was, that would not be acceptable either. It is about the abuse of young, some very young, girls.

    You may think this is routine, normal and acceptable, because White working class girls are all prostitutes or something – when of course you are not accusing British soldiers of being child rapists – but I don’t think anyone else is likely to agree with you.

  61. bloke (not) in spain – “Now I’ve got a much more likely explanation. There are a few lassies. Some of them underage. Who see an opportunity to make some dosh putting out for Asian guys want a bit of nooky.”

    So basically you are saying it is the 12 year olds’ fault?

    An interesting approach. Not one many people, especially fathers of 12 year olds, are likely to make. And oddly enough not an argument that outrages Ironman. It is strange that for all his ranting about child sex, it is suggesting that this has something to do with Muslim culture that really annoys him.

    The problem is still that 12 year olds cannot consent in the UK. Not in law and to be honest not in fact. That mass rape took place by Asian men of White girls is undeniable. Even if every single one was begging for a new mobile phone, it would not matter. It would still be wrong.

  62. I just want to reiterate the point that I made or try to make up the thread, that the problem with what we know about this is a very large aggregate statistic (1400 cases) “illustrated by examples”, which seem to be the extreme rather than the mode, if you see what I mean. So it creates the impression of 1400 12 year olds being gang raped, whereas in fact you have a range of ages up to 17 who in some way interacted sexually with Asian community men.

    Pointing this out is not, repeat not, excusing the gang rape or sexual exploitation of 12 year olds. It is saying that this is just not a reliable picture.

    The general problem I’m sort of trying to point out is the recently developed dogma that nobody under 18 has any agency, and thus must be a victim. This does not seem to me to reflect reality. Nobody up until PC descended would have thought it a remarkable observation that a girl who is involved in sexual activity may be acting with agency. In fact, we still apparently do believe that she has agency if the other party is also underage.

    The whole thing is a mess of contradictory beliefs, which is all really I’m ever trying to point out.

  63. @Ian
    Haven’t you advanced the theory, we’ve abandoned the enlightenment & are racing backwards through the history of modern understanding at breaknet speed? I do think you’ve got something. Some of this has the feeling of the witch trials or even the Inquisition.
    As you say, “a possible 1400 girls, some possibly as young as 12”. Becomes at least 1400 12 y/o girls. And I’m sure I read a bid at 11 earlier. It’s like a Dutch auction.
    There’s a total abandonment of scepticism & a whole lot of what seems to be religious fervour. And they reckon the RoP’s primitive

  64. As I’ve time, let’s answer your point on prostitution.
    Like Ian, I believe irrespective of whether they’re under the AoC or not, lassies, at least over 12, have agency over their own wishes. If not legally their actions. So if you’re not going to call her being chatted up by a white boy, grooming. And the bunch of lads the white boy hangs around with a grooming gang. (A White Grooming Gang!) Then you’re obviously a racist. If you’re making out an Asian boy, hangs with his Asian mates, chatting up a white girl, a member of an Asian grooming gang.
    But Tim’s post quote contained the words “sexual exploitation.” I don’t see.chatting up a girl, whether the chatter-up is white or Asian, as exploiting. Exploiting is extracting value from. And for me, extracting value from providing sex is prostitution. What else do you call it?
    And it’s also economics. And economics is numbers.
    And 1400 girls over a dozen years is better than a hundred a year. The number of hookers, of all ages, currently advertising in the Rotherham.area, on the resource I looked at, is 6. Working girls move around a lot, but I had to go back two years to find a hundred who’d worked Rotherham.
    Let’s try some figures from the other direction.
    Total number of Muslim males in Rotherham, 2011 census, was less than 5000. 2001 it was a bit over 2,500. That’s from babes in arms to granpas in Zimmer frames. Christ they’ve been busy.
    Something’s not right about those figures.
    I’d say you’ve got an obsession with prostitution, not me. And so have a lot of other people.
    Sounding more like the ubiquitous Thai nail bar girls every day

  65. To add:
    These people are tribal, backward, ill educated, peasant villagers with a particularly nasty religion. They’re not the Mongol Horde. All this “lock up your daughters, white slavery stuff” is counter productive. If you can’t send them back where they came from, best to undermine their strength. Their religion & their culture. Send in the shock troops of the slutty Brit teen with her crop top & green hair dye. Corrupt the hell out of their sons & keep their minds off the Koran & suicide vests. Instill rebellion in their veiled daughters. A generation on, they’ll have forgotten who they were.

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