Pity this didn’t come a week earlier really

Every country within the EU could be forced to accept a quota of refugees under highly controversial plans to be unveiled by Brussels this week.

Britain said it would refuse to accept the proposal by the European Commission to share the refugees and asylum seekers – who have arrived in their thousands in southern Italy in recent months – among the EU’s 28 member states.

The plan, driven by Jean-Claude Juncker, head of the European Commission, is “practically seen as a declaration of war”, one senior EU official said.

According to the draft, seen by Italian media ahead of its unveiling on Wednesday, “the EU needs a permanent system for sharing the responsibility for large numbers of refugees and asylum seekers among member states”.

Would have had something of an effect on voting, don’t you think?

BTW, international law on this is very clear. Yes, everyone has the right of asylum on the grounds of presecution, war, famine and so on. And that right is claimable only (and please do note it is *only*) in the first safe country one comes to. A refugee does not get to go jurisdiction shopping.

30 comments on “Pity this didn’t come a week earlier really

  1. Are you sure about that “first country” rule ? My understanding was that it didn’t need to be the first safe country one entered, but rather once the process has been started in a country, you cannot then move and restart in a second.

  2. But the idea is to make the EU one country, isn’t it? JCJ is just acting like it is already.

  3. It’s the first signatory country, not the first safe country. The entire UNHCR process is unfit for purpose, for that reason and many others. The whole thing should be ripped up and started again.

  4. “Pity this didn’t come a week earlier really”.

    Actually, I think Nigel Farage raised this – and it was ignored.

  5. This proposal has been in the pipeline for months. Switzerland declined to join discussions back in January, IIRC.

  6. It’s got to be a more sensible idea than letting Italy and Greece cope with the lot.

    If we were to impose the “first safe country” rule then we’d send’em all back to Tunisia and Libya. Which would also be a functional solution of sorts.

    We might not like forriners from them parts but there is something approaching genocide going on there at the moment. Attitudes were similar to da joooos way back and look where that ended up. On which subject, I’d personally like to see Israel taking more refugees than the trickle they parade in front of the cameras. It would do their international stature a world of good.

  7. As bad as the situation is in Libya/Syria etc–why are large numbers of sub-Saharan Africans among the boat people? Conditions down there are no worse than they have been for decades. These are economic migrants. The fact that they have got themselves into a war zone in N Africa is not our doing or our problem. Now of course the whine will be that we cant send them back. Yes we can. We are not obliged to save the world. The kindest we should be is to hold them ALL (war or economic) in seaside camps in Italy/Greece. Feed them, decent housing , schooling but only in their own languages–not in any European ones. That way–the instant the war is settled–back they go. This would cost probably a little more than the dole over here. But it would stop our countries being swamped with more unwanted aliens.

    The Aussie way is best but the above shows compassion for war victims without being mugs ourselves.

  8. > I’d personally like to see Israel taking more refugees than the trickle they parade in front of the cameras. It would do their international stature a world of good.

    Nonsense. Hatred of Israel is not based on reason, so it is delusion to suppose that it may vanish with good reason. Israel have one of the world’s best earthquake rescue teams and are among the first on the scene whenever a quake hits a populated area, including Nepal last week. Does anyone give a fuck? No. In fact, certain countries, when hit by earthquakes, are known to refuse to let the Israelis in. Saving the lives of your own people is less important than hating fucking Jews.

    The Israelis have finally learnt that there is no point doing things to try and gain the approval of anti-Semitic cunts, so they don’t bother any more. Good for them.

  9. I think we should do the right thing as human beings, even if international law allows us to do something else.

    I understand that UKIP takes the opposite view. But I’m disappointed that Tim thinks the important thing here is the chance for electoral advantage.

  10. SJW,

    No-one’s talking about not letting these refugees settle anywhere at all. What this move represents is other EU member states taking some of their responsibility to take in refugees and foisting it onto other EU member states. Are they doing the right thing as human beings?

    And bear in mind that we already pay a hell of a lot of money into the EU. So, when, say, Spain house some refugees, that is partly funded by the British taxpayer. That’s not us doing nothing.

  11. Social Justice Warrior – “I think we should do the right thing as human beings, even if international law allows us to do something else.”

    And the right thing here is to protect English girls from being groomed and raped. Refugees from the Middle East have nothing to offer us whatsoever. We should take precisely none.

  12. We should do the right thing. Stop them setting off if we can–certainly in the case of sub-Saharan Africans. Fish them out of the drink–feed, educate and house them on the North Med shore–strictly prevented from escaping into Europe. And as soon as it is safe–ship them back. We should also stop meddling in other countries internal antics as far as possible.

  13. Jewish refugees from Germany have nothing to offer us whatsoever. We should take precisely none.

  14. Notice many Jewish refugees spitting at and cursing the bodies of British soldiers lately? Notice any signs on lampposts in Golders Green saying “This is a Mosiac Law area”? Run into any Hasidic patrols on those same streets? Any Jews put turds thro’ your Granny’s letterbox lately to encourage her to stop being the last non-Jewish face in a Jewish area?

  15. This is an economics blog. (hem,hem) So here goes.

    These people have managed to save thousands for their travel. They have satellite phones. They are clearly among the talented and productive of their home nations. Their contribution would be welcomed back home but their added value here is marginal at best.

    Sending them back is therefore the economically sensible option. Delay is a dead loss to all parties.

    They can then try the normal immigration route, student visa.

    Noone wants to see unemployment rates soar but most economists would put unemployment in the people trafficking sector as an example of creative destruction.

  16. So Much For Humanity – “Jewish refugees from Germany have nothing to offer us whatsoever. We should take precisely none.”

    Jewish refugees were indeed a very mixed bag. We got some good ones but I doubt that off set the bad ones. Essentially we got a lot of people who hoped and prayed for a Soviet victory in the Cold War. Some of whom actively worked for that Soviet victory – like Eric Hobsbawm. In retrospect we can down play that danger but at the time it was a real danger. Everyone here would have been murdered if the loudest political tendency in those Jewish refugees got their way.

    Not that it matters. Human rights is not a suicide pact. The present immigration policy is a suicide pact. If we want to survive we need to stop taking our enemies into our homes.

  17. SMfS. Hobsbawm wasn’t German. He was son of a Brit of Polish origins born in Egypt. Miliband senior was Belgian, father also a Pole.
    Political Jews seem to be mostly Eastern European, for some reason. A girlfiend’s father was an active & committed communist. He was Russian.
    German,German Jews you tend to find up in Stanmore. They’re lawyers, accountants, doctors. Often had a granny round the house with a tattooed arm, back when. If she made it. Not much political, at all.

  18. I think we should do the right thing as human beings,

    Ah, the great socialist “we”.

    When Nigel was smacked down about “free” Aids medication, using the same “we” explanation, it was from some who was a net benefactor of the taxpayer, of course, she actually meant “you”.

  19. I wonder how much of SMFS etc is real and how much is provoking idiotic reactions.
    Hi, kids! Look at the GDP of Syria and that of the UK – if the UK took one-twenty-eighth of the poulation of Syria (not just of the refugees) and gave them 90% of the average Syrian income,. would we even notice?

  20. john77 – “Look at the GDP of Syria and that of the UK – if the UK took one-twenty-eighth of the poulation of Syria (not just of the refugees) and gave them 90% of the average Syrian income,. would we even notice?”

    The girls of Rotherham would.

    But if you took one-twenty-eighth of the population of Syria, they would bring over their parents – and their second cousins and their friends. We would also have to take one twenty eighth of the population of Iraq. And Turkey. And Nigeria. There isn’t a country in the world outside the West that isn’t a dump with human rights problems. Well, we won’t be flooded by Japanese I suppose. If you want to take people for specious human rights reasons, we are talking about billions. Nor would they be asking for 90% of the Syrian income. They would be asking for welfare. Forever. As there is no sign that any Muslim community is ever going to come off the welfare teat any time soon.

    We need to stop inviting people who hate us into our homes. The money has nothing to do with it.

  21. bloke (not) in spain – “Hobsbawm wasn’t German. He was son of a Brit of Polish origins born in Egypt. Miliband senior was Belgian, father also a Pole.”

    This is a misuse of the word “Pole”. Eastern European Jews used to belong to a single cultural group, more or less, with some being born in Russia, some in Poland, some elsewhere, but the main feature being their native language was Yiddish. A dialect of German. Hobsbawm was born in Egypt but raised in Vienna and Berlin. His mother was Austrian. I think German is close enough. He was certainly a refugee from the Germans.

    “Political Jews seem to be mostly Eastern European, for some reason. A girlfiend’s father was an active & committed communist. He was Russian.”

    There was heavily discrimination in the US against Russian Jews by German Jews. The German Jews were a lot more assimilated. But it is not as if many of them were not Communists as well.

    Runcie Balspune – “Including two young enterprising chaps who solved the riddle of how much uranium you need to build a bomb before Heisenberg realised.”

    I was reading an interesting book on the spies who stole atomic secrets for the Soviets. The Rosenbergs were the heart of a ring that was formed mainly by former students at City College New York. It was an odd college because while every other university in America had a student body split between people who supported Roosevelt and people who supported the Republicans – with the anti-New-Deal faction the more population, City College’s students were split between Stalinists and Trotskyites. Care to speculate why that might be?

    So sure, Jewish refugees helped the West make nuclear weapons. But virtually everyone who helped the Soviets make nuclear weapons – from the Rosenbergs to Robert Oppenheimer – were also Jewish refugees or the children thereof. Including Neils Bohr (well, not so much a refugee). The exception is Enrico Fermi.

    They hated the West so much, they were happy to help the Soviets build nuclear weapons to use against us. I think this is remarkable. I can understand someone fleeing the Nazis assuming the Soviets were the lesser evil. Although they were not. But why would someone raised in New York think so?

  22. > Eastern European Jews used to belong to a single cultural group, more or less, with some being born in Russia, some in Poland, some elsewhere, but the main feature being their native language was Yiddish.

    > There was heavily discrimination in the US against Russian Jews by German Jews.

    They were all basically the same, part of just one cultural group, with no national identity, that discrimated against each other on the grounds of being from different cultural groups and nations?

  23. Squander Two – “They were all basically the same, part of just one cultural group, with no national identity, that discrimated against each other on the grounds of being from different cultural groups and nations?”

    Like English people from the South don’t discriminate against English people from the North. Or even from the wrong side of the Thames.

    I did actually explain that further down. Although it also depends if you think Germany is part of Eastern Europe. German Jews were a lot more assimilated and so looked down on those from further from the East who were not.

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