It ain’t for you to say Dearie

Police have condemned people stuck in traffic who taunted a distressed woman as negotiators tried to save her life by talking her down from a bridge.
Officers said it was “completely unacceptable” after members of the public made offensive remarks as officers tried to help the woman to safety.
The incident forced the closure of the M3 at Sunbury in Surrey for more than two hours after emergency teams were alerted just after 11am.
One Twitter user, Frankie Maicourt, tweeted Surrey Police: “Tell her to get on with it. Bloody ruining everyone’s weekend. Sat in this for an hour and a half now.”
Another user, Sara Russell, wrote: “To the person causing traffic jam on the M3/A316, you selfish, selfish t**t.”
She added: “Surrey police, can’t you rubber bullet the jumper on M3/A316 and get the traffic moving? Or get net ready & charge her? Ridiculous.”
The woman was detained under the Mental Health Act after being helped to safety from the pedestrian bridge, Surrey Police said.
Inspector Julie Hillman said: “Having members of the public taunt somebody who is clearly in a distressed state as we did earlier today is completely unacceptable.

It’s rude, crude, callous and all the rest of it. But you’re a police officer Dearie. you don’t get to decide what other people can say.

Strange idea, this free speech shit, but that is what it does mean. The freedom to be a complete twat.

79 comments on “It ain’t for you to say Dearie

  1. Similarly, a police officer has the freedom of speech to describe someone else’s actions as unacceptable, no?

  2. “”I appreciate that being stuck in traffic is the last thing that people want to be doing, particularly on a weekend when the weather is hot, but on this occasion it was completely necessary to ensure officers saw this woman to safety.””

    So there have been other occasions when you’ve caused traffic jams when it wasn’t completely necessary? Do tell…

  3. Oh FFS! Plod is supposed to be adept at solving murders from minuscule clues but isn’t able to spot travellers venting their frustrations? Do these Uniformed Social Workers not realise that those sending the messages are not to be taken literally?! They’re just people who, quite understandably, are pissed off at having their journey delayed? When I found my Eurostar was cancelled last year because somebody had jumped in front of an earlier train, my main thought was “You selfish c*nt, next time take yourself off to Beachy Head”. If I’d had four kids in tow and train to catch, like one family in front of me, I’d still be thinking that.

  4. Ah – Belgian doctors may not encourage people to commit suicide, those being inconvenienced by attempted suiciders may. Got that.

  5. @Interested,

    I’m assuming “taunting” and “making remarks as officers attempted to lead her to safety” were vocalisations by people at the scene.

    If this is _just_ Twatter and Farcebook stuff then fuck the lot of them.

  6. @Fatty

    I think it’s the word “unacceptable”, which suggests one has the power not to accept it.

    It’s the sort of word I use with my kids when they get properly out of line.

    It’s also uttered by someone who has authority (and seems to have forgotten she’s a public servant).

    If she’d said “unpleasant”, fair enough.

  7. @BiG oh come on. There is a world of difference even if they were at the scene. It is analogous to saying to a doctor “Tell her to commit suicide”. S/he can ignore it totally.

  8. Also – I may well have missed it but are Belgian doctors encouraging (as in urging) or just facilitating?

  9. Apparently Belgian doctors are suiciding people without asking first. Which is kinda bad, especially if you are residually Catholic thus believe that those dying in excruciating agony must be made to suffer every extra day of torture they can get for the sake of their eternal souls. But it has been happening for, like, ever, and has nothing to do with recent legislation.

  10. “Do these uniformed Social Workers not realise that those sending the messages are not to be taken literally?!”

    Don’t these blog contributers realise that ‘Unacceptanle’ here is being used in the sense that no decent person would find it acceptable; not any totalitarian sense?

    And the reaction to this Police woman’s comment seems to be ( not for the first time) the classic “I’ve got a right to free speech. How dare you call me offensive!”

  11. Don’t these blog contributers realise that ‘Unacceptanle’ here is being used in the sense that no decent person would find it acceptable; not any totalitarian sense?

    Firstly, if that is the case then why do we need plod to point out the bleedin’ obvious? Plod’s opinion is of no public interest whatsoever and they have no business expressing their personal opinions in their capacity as a police officer.

    Secondly, this wouldn’t matter had we not seen a robust pattern of things denounced as “unacceptable” making it into legislation in pretty short order.

  12. @BiG – “suiciding people without asking first” is not analogous to the above, surely? Normally I find you to be a model of logic and clear thought but on this occasion, unusually, I think you are some way off.

  13. A police inspector, in the context of her role, saying “this electronic communication is completely unacceptable” is not that far off her adding “and one of my minions is considering whether an investigation regarding possible breaches of s127 Communications Act 2003 or s4 Protection from Harassment Act 1997 is justified in the interest of making us look tough on the causes of callousness.”

  14. And the reaction to this Police woman’s comment seems to be ( not for the first time) the classic “I’ve got a right to free speech. How dare you call me offensive!”

    I’m sorry, but it is not the job of the police to make social commentary. As private individuals they may make whatever remarks they like, but in their capacity as police officers they do not have the right to freedom of speech. Not for the first time, plod appears to have forgotten what their job is.

  15. Some people are closet authoritarians. Those who constantly seek to dictate to others what they may and may not say are among them. This cheeky inspector and a well known troll of these parts are essentially bedfellows.

  16. Fatty said
    “Similarly, a police officer has the freedom of speech to describe someone else’s actions as unacceptable, no?”

    No, not when speaking as a police officer, no.

    Because of the implied threat that they will therefore use their authority to do something about it.

  17. Tim

    “I’m sorry, but it is not the job of the police to make social commentary.”

    I’m afraid you are a bit late on that one.

  18. “unacceptable” is the modern word of choice for people who have no power to prevent or change what they consider to be “unacceptable”.

  19. Implied threats aren’t enough for me, I’m afraid. Some big ugly bruiser with a menacing aspect also has freedom of speech, regardless of the threat you may infer from his words.

  20. @Fatty

    If you want to take it to circular extremes, and it seems you might, then you have no right to tell others that they have no right to tell others not to call this sort of behaviour ‘unacceptable’.

    Anyway.

    I would agree with your basic proposition, if the big ugly bruiser didn’t have a bunch of other people in yellow jackets at her disposal, who are quite likely to detain you on her whim, throw you in a cell and at the very least inconvenience you.

    Didn’t happen here, but ‘unacceptable’ is close to a warning that it might in future.

    Note also that no-one commenting here is assuming the power to tell this copper what to say, just commenting on it.

    @Rob

    I know what you mean but I think you are missing the next stage. I would have agreed had you written:

    “unacceptable” is the modern word of choice for people who have no power to prevent or change what they consider to be “unacceptable” but are working to achieve that power.

  21. There are selfish twattish ways of ending one’s life like snarling road traffic, tube or rail or flying into a mountainside with a load of passengers and unselfish untwattish private ways. I think I should be allowed to judge a stranger’s character on the basis of how they choose to end their lives.

  22. Tim,

    > Do these Uniformed Social Workers not realise that those sending the messages are not to be taken literally?!

    Think you’ve read the piece too literally (or not cynically enough). The police haven’t said a damn thing about Twitter. I’ve read at least six articles on this now, and not one single mention of social media from the police. The police have quite clearly referred to members of the public taunting the woman as they tried to talk her down.

    Modern journalism, sadly, largely revolves around cutting and pasting off of Twitter. So “reporters” covering the story have grabbed some quotes off Twitter, presumably because that way they can get actual direct quotes from named people rather than a statement from the police saying “Some people who we can’t name were shouting this sort of thing.” And of course they don’t have to leave their desks.

    Go back to the local press in that area and you do get this:

    Officers became aware of a number of people taunting the woman and there were numerous unsavoury statements on social media.

    If you can find a quote from the police referring to Twitter, cool. Otherwise, I bet on journalistic laziness. Especially since all the articles are almost word-for-word identical.

    A few weeks ago, a guy killed himself jumping from a building. A load of people in the crowd were shouting “Jump!” and filmed it on their mobiles. So this does appear to be a thing now. Cunts.

  23. Ljh,

    > There are selfish twattish ways of ending one’s life like snarling road traffic, tube or rail or flying into a mountainside with a load of passengers and unselfish untwattish private ways. I think I should be allowed to judge a stranger’s character on the basis of how they choose to end their lives.

    I agree — although there is a world of difference between traumatising or harming bystanders and just delaying them. And there are selfish twattish times and ways to bring that to the attention of the would-be suicide. While they’re being talked down is quite a bad choice of time.

    Mind you, the woman was mentally ill. Not sure quite how much you’re going to achieve anyway by telling her she was selfish.

  24. Think you’ve read the piece too literally (or not cynically enough). The police haven’t said a damn thing about Twitter. I’ve read at least six articles on this now, and not one single mention of social media from the police. The police have quite clearly referred to members of the public taunting the woman as they tried to talk her down.

    Fair enough. Actually shouting at the person on the ledge, as opposed to making generic, frustrated comments well out of earshot, is out of order.

  25. Presumably we’ll never learn whether the woman was a poor mad thing, or a self-indulgent exhibitionist drama-queening to get attention.

  26. Given that few motorway bridges are high enough to ensure certain death it is likely this was a cry for help job. Also–had she jumped into traffic other people could easily have been killed so my sympathy is already muted.

    As SQ2 says abuse on Twitter is not the issue as the would-be suicide is unlikely to be on Twitter while on a parapet (or whatever) trying to decide if it is a go situation. So shouted abuse is most likely what happened. Free speech still covers. Not very nice–but matched by the not-very-niceness of disrupting thousands of people over personal issues. Which are most probably (not certainly but very probably) resolvable with different perspectives and resources.

  27. dearimie:“Presumably we’ll never learn whether the woman was a poor mad thing, or a self-indulgent exhibitionist drama-queening to get attention.”

    I’d love to know how many of these actually jump (SQ2 has provided one example) as opposed to simply enjoying the fuss and attention for a while before deciding to give in.

  28. If it was shouted abuse, how could that have happened? The police would have setup a cordon and road block well away from the bridge so that nothing was in public view. They wouldn’t want the public to see the result if she had jumped. Any shouting would have been stamped on by the police immediately.

    I suspect it was all social media and a bit of lazy journalism converts that into general comments which is read and implied to mean shouting by those of us who weren’t there.

  29. What about the economics of this?

    If she’d jumped, she’d have lost perhaps 40 or 50 years of life, depending on her age now.

    How much time, in aggregate, was lost to the people in the traffic jam?

    OK, we can’t just do that and say she should jump, because she’d have caused damage and hold-ups if she’d done that as well, but it’s an interesting comparison.

  30. Given it was on a noisy motorway, would she actually have been able to hear people shouting “jump!” ?

  31. SBML,

    > The police would have setup a cordon and road block well away from the bridge so that nothing was in public view.

    What, when she called them to give them advance warning of her plans?

  32. Andrew,

    > Given it was on a noisy motorway

    Why would it be noisy? The traffic was stationary.

    > would she actually have been able to hear people shouting “jump!” ?

    The police heard it. Are you suggesting they have super hearing?

  33. Oh for fuck’s sake.

    Maybe she allowed her humanity to come through. Chances are that, as a serving police officer she’s seen the consequences of a suicide and wanted to prevent it.

    People shouting abuse at the poor sod in the middle of that is pretty disgusting.

    Maybe her choice of words wasn’t perfect but we all know what she meant and why she said it.

  34. I would be firmly on the side of those making unacceptable comments. It’s incredibly rude to cause all that hassle on a motorway.

    If they were serious about ending thier lives they could find a quiet canal bridge where they wouldn’t be causing problems and would not be interfered with by coppers ‘helping them to safety’.

    As Buffy the Vampire Slayer said, “A cry for help is when you say ‘Help'”.

  35. Canal bridges aren’t particularly high. Plus, you tend to land in water. You might drown, I suppose, or be hit by a slow moving canal barge, but the odds are against it.

  36. Sorry Bucko, but I’m afraid that many of the suicidal aren’t always in the best place mentally to start thinking about inconvenience to others.

    Perhaps my view is a little coloured by knowing someone who jumped off the Forth Road Bridge. If the police had got there in time then I would have rather that they were able to talk him down, even if that meant that some drivers got to work a bit late that day.

    And by the way – he wasn’t an attention seeker. Just a desperately ill person.

  37. Bucko,

    > I would be firmly on the side of those making unacceptable comments. It’s incredibly rude to cause all that hassle on a motorway.

    You would shout at someone in the middle of attempting suicide to go on and get it over with and stop inconveniencing you because you object to rudeness?

  38. “I think I should be allowed to judge a stranger’s character on the basis of how they choose to end their lives.”

    Really? So a decision made as a result of an illness lets you judge someone? And if that decision inconveniences you or causes a bit of a mess on the road then you judge their character harshly based on that?

    It must pain you that the suicidal don’t just retreat to their study with whisky and a revolver.

  39. As has been said before, nobody on this blog ever tries to stop free speech. Instead they use free speech to point out what a twat you are if you side with people who encourage an ill person to kill themselves. Funnily enough, that is precisely when the twats choose to invoke free speech and CLAIM that others (‘closet totalitarians and trolls’ apparently) are trying to shut it down.

    Personally I would would have been horrified if that policewoman hadn’t felt compelled to express her disgust.

  40. “Personally I would would have been horrified if that policewoman hadn’t felt compelled to express her disgust.”

    Absolutely. I suspect she used the word “unacceptable” because her true views would have involved some far stronger language.

  41. Actually taunting the woman, directly? Vile. Venting your spleen on Twatter? Entirely understandable. That seems to sum it up. In days gone by the fuzz could probably have nicked actual taunters on Breach of the Peace grounds because, “if you don’t fuck off sonny I am going to lamp you with my truncheon and that will not be very peaceful.”

  42. If she had said that taunts, and or the taunters, were “vile and obnoxious” or “an absolute fucking disgrace” then it would have so much of the ring of “and we’re consider prosecution under s1 Malicious Communciations Act 1988*” about it.

    * I forgot one**.

    ** Although this one clearly doesn’t apply to “verballing”.

  43. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Yes, in days gone by the Police might have done that. Read though the views expressed on this thread. It seems our underlying sentiment is with the roadside trolls who urged this poor person to kill themselves. And it seems we are outraged that a serving Police officer should have the temerity to express her disgust.

  44. Surreptitious Evil

    It was a simple, very understandable and supportable expression of a decent sentiment. It does have a totalitarian ring; that’s your leap. Necessary given the dispicable way this thread has developed, but a leap nonetheless.

  45. If she had said that taunts, and or the taunters, were “vile and obnoxious” or “an absolute fucking disgrace” then I would respond “I completely agree”. I invite you to do the same.

  46. Since the English now have elected police commissioners, I’d hope that senior police officers would catch on and start saying things like “These scummy little shits should have their knackers shoved down their throats” and bask in the votes. But they don’t seem to have caught on yet.

  47. “Venting your spleen on Twatter? Entirely understandable.”

    Except it.was.on this thread and it was dispicable.

    We had had commentator after commentator on this thread expressing the most revolting sentiments. Yet just one throwaway word out of place from one relatively junior policewoman and we’re screaming “s1 Malicious Communciations Act 1988”.

  48. Squander Two

    You’ll.appreciate I’d rather they didn’t use that form.of words. But senior police officers expressing opinions that chime with the law abiding: can’t come soon enough.

  49. Surreptitious Evil

    Oh yes – and with Army officers. In both I found some of the most irredeemable nutters this side of SMFS; some of the most reflective, considered people I have ever met. A real cross-section of our society.

    The motives of ‘the Police’ aren’t in point here though, the motives of this decent policewoman expressing her disgust at the revolting abuse being hurled are. Unless of course you have some personal information about her you wish to impart?

    Can’t we just acknowledge the nature of some of these comments on this thread?

  50. SQ2: ‘Since the English now have elected police commissioners, I’d hope that senior police officers would catch on and start saying things like “These scummy little shits should have their knackers shoved down their throats” and bask in the votes. But they don’t seem to have caught on yet.’

    That’s because they don’t look to ‘the English’ for their votes, but to the few who turn out for such votes – the Common Purpose devotees, the vested interests, the middle aged SJWs and civil servants, the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou prigs like Ironman, etc.

    They mostly despise ‘the English’.

  51. Bucko: ‘If they were serious about ending thier lives they could find a quiet canal bridge where they wouldn’t be causing problems and would not be interfered with by coppers ‘helping them to safety’.’

    This!

  52. Like the depressed woman who wanted to get a doctor to bump her off, potential suicides are perhaps not 100% compos mentis, and therefore not always capable of topping themselves in a considerate and unobtrusive manner.

    It strikes me that, given none of us commenting on this blog were inconvenienced by this woman, we don’t have much to lose by extending her a bit of compassion. The closest I’ve got to thinking about suicide was thinking about what it would be like to be thinking about suicide, and even that wasn’t very nice.

  53. “That’s because they don’t look to ‘the English’ for their votes, but to the few who turn out for such votes – the Common Purpose devotees, the vested interests, the middle aged SJWs and civil servants, the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou prigs like Ironman, etc.

    They mostly despise ‘the English’.”

    God, how wet can you get.

  54. Can’t we just acknowledge the nature of some of these comments on this thread?

    Okay. I acknowledge that you are an arsehole. Nearly as much as when you are accusing everybody of racism. Or Jewishness.

  55. Suppose some motorists did goad the poor woman, then if plod should take an over-enthusiastic interest in the road worthiness of their car and make a precautionary impounding of the car pending a proper engineers report and leave the stupid c*** at the side of the road and then that would be ok by me, albeit an abuse of plod’s power.

  56. johnny bonk: “…then that would be ok by me, albeit an abuse of plod’s power.”

    So you’re OK with an abuse of police power in circumstances where you don’t like the target? Yes. That never backfires.

  57. I find it interesting that those tut-tutting so priggishly at the people ‘inconvenienced’ by this event can only imagine the woman’s ‘pain and suffering’.

    Those caught up in her little acting out are just ‘motorists’, delayed at ‘going to work’.

    None of them have lives, families, dramas of their own. None of them are, perhaps, carers to sick wives or partners that they need to get back to see, and are prevented from doing so while some mad bint is tended to like a ticking bomb by the county’s finest.

    Their pain doesn’t count.

  58. If you REALLY want something to shake your heads over, try this instead:

    http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/13370147.Police_constables__abused__by_onlookers_while_saving_man_s_life_after_heart_attack_in_street/

    “In shocking scenes, passers-by who gathered to watch interfered and heckled as the officers’ battled to save his life in West Croydon, police said today.”

    Funny. Didn’t get half as much airtime as the other incident, yet is totally inexcusable.

  59. Surreptitious Evil

    And what you haven’t done is indicate you think here is anything wrong with standing in front of a desparately ill person contemplating suicide and encouraging them to kill themselves.

    So you think I ‘m an arsegole; I can now wear that as a badge of honour an’t I.

  60. JuliaM

    So you genuinely equate the pain of being delayed for work with the pain of.contemplating suicide. Thank God the policewoman at the scene didn’t.

  61. “Tut-tutting so priggishly”

    So thinking that shouting at a suicidal person isn’t really on is “priggish”. Gotcha.

    ” can only imagine the woman’s ‘pain and suffering’.”

    No. I know people who have been suicidal and some who have gone through with it. I’ve also been headed down that road myself. While I don’t know what she was going through, I can understand how she got there.

    “her little acting out”

    The woman has been sectioned. That suggests this wasn’t just a little hissy fit.

    “just ‘motorists’, delayed at ‘going to work’.”

    You’re probably referring to my comment. I was thinking about the death of someone I know and how I wish he was still here. Apologies for not doing a cost-benefit analysis on his final moments. Apologies also for allowing my own experiences to shape my views.

    “None of them have lives, families, dramas of their own. None of them are, perhaps, carers to sick wives or partners that they need to get back to see”

    Who is being emotional now?

    “Tended to like a ticking bomb by the county’s finest.”

    So what’s your solution? Let her jump? Give her a push? He road will then need closed for a clean up, or can people just drive over her?

    Next time there’s a hold-up due to a crash on the motorway I’ll remember your advice. I’ll shout at the paramedics to let the fuckers die. There are more people waiting to get to their own dramas than are in the wreckage.

  62. BICR,

    > It strikes me that, given none of us commenting on this blog were inconvenienced by this woman, we don’t have much to lose by extending her a bit of compassion.

    Well said.

    But apparently no, that’s too much trouble for some.

  63. Julia,

    > I find it interesting that those tut-tutting so priggishly at the people ‘inconvenienced’ by this event can only imagine the woman’s ‘pain and suffering’.

    I find it interesting that suggesting that shouting “Get on with it!” at a prospective suicide is despicable behaviour is now being described as “priggish tut-tutting”. Seriously? You’re not reading back over your own words and thinking, “Oh, hang on, whoops, I’m being an arsehole”?

    > Those caught up in her little acting out are just ‘motorists’, delayed at ‘going to work’.

    No, those caught up have lives of their own, and lack of consideration for other people’s unknowable circumstances is something that pisses me off a lot, and is why I have been known to rant at the pompous anuses who think they’re fulfilling some sort of civic duty by refusing to move over and let people overtake if the overtaker would be breaking the speed limit. For all they know, the person behind them is racing to get to hospital.

    But two things. Firstly, you’re conflating two very different behaviours here. I have nothing but contempt for people who jump in front of Tube trains, because it utterly fucks up the drivers. It’s a despicable way to top yourself. But the time to mention this is not just as the guy’s about to jump. There is a world of difference between criticising someone for attempting suicide in an inconsiderate way — perhaps later, perhaps in general terms — and shouting at that person, while they’re on the ledge, to go through with it. And, frankly, I don’t give a fuck if the kind of people who do the latter are inconvenienced. Some peope should be inconvenienced. Some people should be punched in their stupid fucking faces.

    Secondly, we do not live in a perfect world. We live in a world that contains illness and accidents and thunderstorms and other things that cause delays. It happens. If people are inconvenienced by attempted suicide every single day, there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. If they’re inconvenienced by attempted suicide for a few hours every few years, then, annoying though it may be, it is the normal price of living in a world containing other people, and they need to get over it.

    Otherwise, why stop at suicides? I was late to a job interview once because the train I was on hit a small child. Maybe I should start calling that child a fucking cunt. HE INCONVENIENCED ME! I HAVE THINGS TO DO!

    Finally, had someone in the traffic had something truly important to get to — dialysis, say, or they were delivering a transplant organ — we can say with some confidence that (a) it would have been reported and (b) they would have approached the police to explain the problem and the police would at least have tried to sort it out. Funny thing about human behaviour: people experiencing genuine emergencies tend not to discourage others from helping them. We can be pretty damn sure that the people shouting at the woman to top herself didn’t need any such urgent help, because of the way they were going out of their way to ensure no-one would give it to them. So fuck ’em.

    > Didn’t get half as much airtime as the other incident, yet is totally inexcusable.

    That story has no Twitter angle, hence no attributable direct quotes from scum.

  64. SQ2: ‘You’re not reading back over your own words and thinking, “Oh, hang on, whoops, I’m being an arsehole”?’

    Nope.

    But I am chuckling at the audacity of GlenDorran bridling over the thought of these terrible motorists having lives and pain of their own as ’emotional’. Need a re calibration on your irony meter, Glen?

  65. Also puzzled at your idea of journalism shying away from a story simply because ‘there’s no Twitter angle’.

    I’m not modern journalism’s best advocate, but even I give them more credit than that…

  66. “But I am chuckling at the audacity of GlenDorran bridling over the thought of these terrible motorists having lives and pain of their own as ’emotional’. Need a re calibration on your irony meter, Glen?”

    No, not really, but thanks for asking. I didn’t make my point very well; fortunately SQ2 is a much better writer than me.

  67. > Also puzzled at your idea of journalism shying away from a story simply because ‘there’s no Twitter angle’.

    Who said anything about shying away? Not me.

    We have two stories here. Yours is about a man having a heart attack in the street (happens all the time) and the police helping him (happens all the time). Apparently, some people jeered at the police while they were doing so. What people? Don’t know. Don’t remember. It’s been reported by the local press, but there’s no strong hook there to get it picked up.

    The other story is about a prospective suicide causing delays on a major motorway (happens very rarely). And some people shouted at her to get on with it. What people? Don’t know. What exactly did they say? Don’t remember. Ah, but then some of them decided to vent their spleens on Twitter. So, again: What people? Here are their names. What exactly did they say? Here are their direct quotes. That’s an excellent hook, and it is not surprising that the story got picked up.

    No-one shied away from your story. It got exactly as much coverage as you’d expect.

  68. Sorry, don’t know how a whole sentence got dropped there.

    Yours is about a man having a heart attack in the street (happens all the time) and the police helping him (happens all the time). Apparently, some people jeered at the police while they were doing so. What people? Don’t know. What exactly did they say? Don’t remember.

  69. Interesting. This topic and its comments were generated by the prevailing misconception that activity in the higher cortex of the plod brain, is quantifiable.

  70. Pingback: Dark Thoughts | Longrider

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