Yes, but Dan, you’re the problem

Before Jeremy Corbyn, I would never have dreamed of joining a mainstream political party. Brought up in Wales in a progressive humanist family, my politics was totally alien to the endless parade of shiny careerist politicians who ran the show. My parents had long since torn up their Labour membership over the Iraq war and I was resigned to a political identity on the left without a party. To me and many of my contemporaries Labour was a party without a soul, whose leadership had poisoned the party with its blinkered pro-business dogma and their illegal wars.

But Corbyn changed all that: his distinctly socialist approach based on principled politics inspired me and thousands of others to come in from the political wilderness and join a party that we previously distrusted. I found myself and many members of my family, friends and colleagues suddenly enthusiastic and full of hope for the future. There was still the huge challenge of defeating the Tories ahead of us, but at least that challenge finally meant something. No more putting a cross in a box next to the lesser of two evils.

There’s maybe 5% of the population that believe this shit.

Not enough to support a mass political party……

27 comments on “Yes, but Dan, you’re the problem

  1. “Principled politics”, Marxist friend of the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah, and all round anti-semit. Dan Iles is a twat.

  2. And now he has a leadership who has poisoned the party with its blinkered pro-terrorist sympathy and failure to recognise when it’s beaten.

    Good going, kid!

  3. Oh, principles in a politician – fine, I just wish his principles weren’t quite so terrifying.

    How’s principled policitcs working out in Venezuela, eh?

  4. And if you’re in a bubble that consists at the 75% level of people in this loony 5%, you can convince yourself there’s a massive groundswell for such lunace. Which is all to the good!

  5. @abacab, to be honest, I think we all suffer from the echo chamber effect. Look at how many people (remove & leave) were absolutely convinced that their side was going to win, because ‘everybody’ agreed with them. The final result showed that to be wrong.

    Which makes me wonder if the BBC might be getting *something* right as they seem to manage to be simultaneously be accused of left- and right-wing bias… (or just pro-Blair bias, but we’ll be able to test that shortly!)

  6. @Ben S

    I don’t really share that analysis – the loonies currently occupying the labour party see anything other than slavish devotion to their party line as being unacceptable Rightism.

    And a while back the BBC used to attack the Tories from the left, and also used to attack Labour… from the left. this might have changed somewhat now the trots and stalinists are ascendant.

    So I’ll perhaps start to believe it when the BBC take a pro-free-market, low-tax line of attack on Labour.

  7. Which makes me wonder if the BBC might be getting *something* right as they seem to manage to be simultaneously be accused of left- and right-wing bias… (or just pro-Blair bias, but we’ll be able to test that shortly!)

    The problem isn’t so much a right/left thing with the BBC, it’s more that you know in advance what stance they will take on every single subject. Most of the time it’s a kind of muddled, slightly lefty view that is so common among members of the establishment and upper middle classes that are not completely stupid but not half as bright as they think they are.

  8. Tim Newman has it. The BBC reflects the biases of London-based university educated 20-50s. It’s a visceral thing, not an attitude of “how can we help Labour today”.

  9. So Corbyn is a politician of rare principles is he?

    So, if I spend today contacting women, on Twitter, hurling misogynistic abuse at them, threatening them with rape and worse… Would that make me principled?

  10. @Ironman – nope, but if you get your minions to do it while remaining silent then I guess so 😉

  11. His pitch reads like a perverted toothpaste advert:

    “I used to be reconciled to suffering the pain of sensitive teeth.

    BUT NOW–Thanks to Comrade Jeremy Corbyn’s new Arm and Hammer and Sickle Tooth Hammer I can knock all my own teeth out as well as those of thousands of Revisionist Zionist Running Dogs.

    Thanks be to Dear Comrade Corbyn”

  12. I can’t see what is wrong with either Momentum or Corbyn myself.

    Both are in the process of flushing the Labour party down the shitter where it belongs. That’s in everybody’s best interests except for the loony left members of Momentum and Corbyn, surely?

    Sure, we’ll need a new party that represents the conservative (small c) working class who would rather have bollock surgery than vote Tory, but that’s probably a post-BRExit version of UKIP. Not ideal, but at least they aren’t actually working against those they claim to represent.

    Labour has despised its “natural base” as being too white, too male and too racist since forever, which is why it attempted to import a new electorate.

    Nope, let Labour vanish into the land of the unelectable, just as the Liberal Democrats are doing.

  13. The great news is that the small number of morons attracted to this shit is viewed as ‘civil society’ or even ‘society’ by one Richard J Murphy Esq – as it inevitably fails to register with real people his disillusion will grow which might make him even more of a laughing stock than he is currently…..

  14. Ironman – “So, if I spend today contacting women, on Twitter, hurling misogynistic abuse at them, threatening them with rape and worse… Would that make me principled?”

    Well this is pretty much how you do spend your days. Just not reserving your abuse for women. And you do seem to think it is principled. Very principled.

    So the lack of awareness is the most interesting thing here.

  15. Tim Newman,

    The bias is mostly about the selection of stories and views. A discussion on politics will include The Guardian, which is read by a tiny fraction of all newspaper readers. The Archbishop of Canterbury and trade unions get reported on, even though they represent tiny proportions of the public nowadays.

    It’s worse outside of the news, though. Countryfile is basically a list of stories of people wanting government grants. “Our business is suffering, so the government needs to help us”. Sports coverage is full of “footballers earn too much”/”clubs should be owned by fans” stories. And because it’s not news, there doesn’t have to be someone giving the opposite side of “piss off, if your business doesn’t make money, maybe you need to do something else”.

  16. Look at how many people (remove & leave) were absolutely convinced that their side was going to win, because ‘everybody’ agreed with them.

    I’m sure there were some Leavers who felt that way, but it was much more prevalent among Remainers (possibly because they use social media more, a bit like cyberNats). Personally (as a committed Leaver), I was pretty convinced at 10pm Thursday that we’d lose 45:55 (so was Nigel, it would appear).

    But there were a couple of straws in the wind. A friend and neighbour who’s an emeritus Oxford Philosophy Prof (and always votes a straight SCR/Guardian ticket) told me he was voting Leave. And The Register (a web site quite a few of Tim’s followers will be familiar with) claimed their staff were roughly equally divided. Since they’re about 90% young N London hipsters, I figured the popular vote might be close.

  17. “Brought up in Wales in a progressive humanist family”

    As middle-class as it is possible to be. What insufferable cunts they must be. The smugness must be overwhelming.

  18. Corbyn is right to stay on. He’s known almost no labour MPs have agreed with him since at least 1995. He knew the MPs put him on the ballot to give him and his views a mild kicking. When instead it was themselves who got their heads kicked in, he knew, every one knew that it’s not their support his job depends on. Shadow cabinet wets were going to resign at some point. Probably a year away from the GE when they could point to some polling data. Corbyn had been decent to these people and it probably momentarily surprised him that they could plunge the knife in to the hilt. But immediately after the stabbing it became a like a scene from the Matrix. They realised there is no knife (Spoon). To kill someone politically numbers are your knives. And under the current rules 100,000 members of LP are mightier than 200 members of P. Hang in there JC.
    Angela Eagle as leader? No definitive opinion yet but having seen her teary eyed, i doubt she has it. If she was to become leader it wouldn’t be for long.

  19. >There’s maybe 5% of the population that believe this shit.

    Unfortunately it’s well more than 5%. But yes, not enough to support a mass political party.

  20. The thing I don’t get about about Corbynistas is the man himself. I could sort of, kind of, understand if it was McDonnell (who at least is capable of giving a speech) who they were planning on building 50 foot bronze statues of.

    But Corbyn is such an unrelenting drip. He’s got zero charisma, no sense of humour, is embarrassingly thick and a total incompetent. And this is who they are following over the top?

  21. Dan – “He’s got zero charisma, no sense of humour, is embarrassingly thick and a total incompetent. And this is who they are following over the top?”

    He doesn’t make them feel inferior.

  22. “Which makes me wonder if the BBC might be getting *something* right as they seem to manage to be simultaneously be accused of left- and right-wing bias”

    But it’s the hard left that attacks the BBC for being too right-wing. And the BBC is more right-wing than they are. That doesn’t mean it’s not left-wing, though.

    (Generally the BBC has a lot of similar aims as the hard left, part of the disagreement is how to get there. The hard left wants it now, with revolutions and bombs, whereas the BBC wants to do it slowly and stealthily, gradually taking over institutions, not going in too hard in case they lose the license fee, basically having a well-paid job while the evolutionary process of taking society gradually to the left happens.)

  23. “He’s got zero charisma, no sense of humour, is embarrassingly thick and a total incompetent.”

    So he’s one of them, then.

    But this battle is not about him. It’s about the movement. He’s the symbol of their quasi-religious views.

  24. The problem is that there are 4 levels of party membership.

    – The leader
    – MPs, who are mostly centre-ish.
    – People who care enough about things to sign up to the party, who are mostly leftish
    – People who vote Labour but aren’t members, who are something of a mixture

    What the leadership election system does is slot in that third layer and give it the power to vote in the top person, whereas the fourth layer votes for the second rank.

    So we then have two structures within the same party, and no particular reason why they should have the same politics.

    To get consistency within the party you need Labour voters in general voting for the leader: that’s not easy to arrange, so a sensible proxy would seem to be to have the MPs (or other people responsible to hoi polloi) choose the leader. The current structure just allows the minority of party members to exercise disproportionate power.

  25. Pellinor,
    I agree with your analysis of the problem to an extent(though leftish was a bit mild), but as for solution its not immediately obvious why Lab MPS are a good proxy for Lab voters. You also don’t mention the Unions.

  26. … its not immediately obvious why Lab MPS are a good proxy for Lab voters.

    The traditional rationale is that MPs are interested in being re-elected, and will try to ensure that the leader is a positive addition in any upcoming campaign. Party members, probably less so, and with less experience in actually contacting the voters (Pellinor’s fourth level) and determining what (or who) might appeal to them and what might repel them.

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