Whatever

Islamist terrorist fanatics and the west’s ascendant populist right are now working in tandem. They are feeding off each other. They are interdependent. Their fortunes rise with each other.

More than a bit of projection there, no? Owen seems to be recalling that old revolutionaries’ insistence that the worse capitalism got then the closer the revolt against it. So, let’s make it worse….

43 comments on “Whatever

  1. Also remember the lefts pride when Germany and France lectured the US and UK that they weren’t going to get involved in Iraq?

    How’s that working out for them?

    The Jihadis certainly are grateful for that restraint.

  2. “What kind of contemptible individual mixes horror with vindication?”

    I’d say the very same contemptible twats who accused all Leave campaigners of being responsible for the murder of Jo Cox.

  3. Sorry, but if you’re saying that getting Donald Trump and Brexit leads average muslims to mass murder then we have to destroy islam and probably just nuke the middle east and commit genocide. We have to treat anyone who has been in touch with it like rats.

    I mean, what’s the alternative based on Owen’s hypothesis? That we surrender to people who would use violence? Don’t allow Trump to win an election, despite the will of the people?

    See, I don’t believe that. I think most Muslims are basically decent. I think Islam has problems, and I also think there’s a sizeable minority of Muslims who are fifth columnists out there. I’m not of the “rogue muslim”. There’s too many to go likening them to Timothy McVeighs. You can’t say “well, they’re just the odd nutter” when their attacks exceed white terrorist attacks in Europe, but with a tiny minority of the population.

  4. Given that we were told we were only importing orphans and women and there has been about one new terrorist attack every month by refugees I shudder to think how many terrorist attacks there would have been if we had imported young men aged 18-30 instead. /s

    A friend who works in all the shit holes of the world doing security, risk assessment, land mine disposal etc. tells me that Damascus still feels pretty normal (he visits frequently). However the Syrians he speaks to say they are sending their most incompetent sons to Europe. Anyone with talent can still do ok in Syria, it’s those without who most benefit from moving to the European welfare states.

  5. @ljh

    You see, refusing to hypothetically bake a cake or supply pizza to a gay wedding is far worse than executing gays and anyone who disagrees is a far right extremist and worse than Hitler

  6. “However the Syrians he speaks to say they are sending their most incompetent sons to Europe. ”

    Given that from the photos there is a large cohort that seem aged mostly 18-30 (sorry, “children”) and have middle-class appurtenances like smartphones and designer clothes, this snippet of anecdata does not surprise me.

  7. > they are sending their most incompetent sons to Europe

    That’s perfectly rational even in the absence of a welfare state. I wouldn’t mind working in the U.S. for a bit, get the whole American experience. Legally it’s a right headache though – I’d have to try for an H1-B visa, and they’re like hen’s teeth. I daren’t enter illegally (or overstay a tourist visa) because (a) I’d want to work in a proper job, not picking fruit or washing cars; and (b) I’d like to be able to come and go as I please.

    For your low-skilled / unskilled migrants (“most incompetent”), neither of those factors applies. So the skilled workers play fair and stay at home, while the unskilled have nothing to lose by cheating the system. As Trump said, when Mexico sends its people, they aren’t sending their best.

  8. Well, at least he is using the phrase “terrorist fanatics” or even the word ‘terrorist’, which the BBC refuses to do in connection with Islam but will use for white people.

    Now all Owen has to do is remove the association with “populist right” (or “a majority of ordinary people voting in a way I don’t like”, to give it a more rational meaning) and he might be part of the way to understanding reality.

  9. The “extreme fringe” of UK and European society, as defined by the Guardian, gets bigger every day and is already an actual numerical majority of the population.

    There will come a day when literally everyone outside of the Guardian offices will be ‘extreme’.

  10. “I think most Muslims are basically decent. ”

    I agree and I disagree. Most ‘people’ are basically decent. However a decent person who is also a Muslim has a problem – his religion tells him that non-Muslims are sub human. That they are lesser human beings than his fellow Muslims. I don’t believe most people have the mental fortitude to listen more to their inner voice of decency than to the massive social conditioning and pressure from others to act in other ways. Thus Muslims, however decent, have an inbuilt bias to behave in ways that are not decent, to agree to ideas and acts that are discriminatory (and far worse) to non-Muslims.

    Basically until Islam comes to the conclusion that non-Muslims are worthy of being treated exactly the same as Muslims, both on a personal level and an institutional level, then no-one can live with them in harmony, and we should not attempt to do so.

  11. “There will come a day when literally everyone outside of the Guardian offices will be ‘extreme’.”

    Their hubris when “people like them” were in power has generated this nemesis. But they’ll never acknowledge their part in this.

  12. However the Syrians he speaks to say they are sending their most incompetent sons to Europe.

    Why do you think Syria’s neighbours won’t take them in? They know what they’d be getting, that’s why.

  13. I agree and I disagree. Most ‘people’ are basically decent. However a decent person who is also a Muslim has a problem – his religion tells him that non-Muslims are sub human.

    If you think that’s bad, ask him what he thinks of apostates.

  14. We need to stop fannying around. Islam and the West are incompatible, period. So, they live in their places, like the ‘stans, Indonesia etc and we live in ours.

    If we choose to allow them to live here, there will be stringent conditions, and we are allowed to discriminate against them solely on the grounds of their faith.

  15. Ironman – “I’d say the very same contemptible twats who accused all Leave campaigners of being responsible for the murder of Jo Cox.”

    Someone remind me, wasn’t Rusty here the man who said that complaining about Muslim gang rapes in Rotherham was driving more and more Muslims into the arms of the terrorists? You know, exactly the same as the cynical exploitation of Ms Cox’s murder.

    We know what will happen in Europe. The Israeli Labour Party ran and all-but One Party state for generations. The Opposition was mostly even further to the Left. Now it is more or less dead. The Revisionists, that is the quasi-Fascists, run Israel now. What happened to the Left? Hamas happened, that’s what.

  16. “I agree and I disagree. Most ‘people’ are basically decent. However a decent person who is also a Muslim has a problem – his religion tells him that non-Muslims are sub human.”

    I recall the ME human rights lawyer, nonobservant Muslim background, who, when his Western partner decided that their children (whom he was not supporting) would be raised as independent nonMuslim women, decided that the right and fitting thing was to kill them. Twenty odd years later they are still on the run.

  17. Ljh – “I recall the ME human rights lawyer, nonobservant Muslim background,…”

    Rarely ends well. But this is not an Islamist problem:

    On the morning of 17 April 1986, at Heathrow Airport in London, Israeli security guards working for El Al airlines found 1.5 kilograms (3.3 lb) of Semtex explosives in the bag of Anne-Marie Murphy, a five-month pregnant Irishwoman attempting to fly on a flight with 375 fellow passengers to Tel Aviv. In addition, a functioning calculator in the bag was found to be a timed triggering device. She claimed to be unaware of the contents, and that she had been given the bag by her fiancé, Nezar Hindawi, a Jordanian. Murphy maintained that Hindawi had sent her on the flight for the purpose of meeting his parents before marriage.

    One of the problems with dealing with the Third World is that the First World is such a decent place, full of decent people. It means their thinking is all but incomprehensible to your average European.

    What would go through the mind of a man who would do that?

  18. As Tim Newman says, it doesn’t matter if 95% of Muslims are perfectly decent people, because they know what happens if they play nice with infidels, they get declared apostate and moved to the top of the hit list.

  19. BiW,

    Islam has a problems like the Titanic had a problem. Islam was dreamed up by a complete and utter piece of shite as a means to control his followers and justify his behaviour to non-followers. It is no great surprise therefore that the cult he created is evil. Muslims can be decent people if they ignore the nastiest bits of Islam, but there is always the risk that they decide to take their religion seriously.

  20. Roué le Jour – “it doesn’t matter if 95% of Muslims are perfectly decent people, because they know what happens if they play nice with infidels, they get declared apostate and moved to the top of the hit list.”

    Ultimately it doesn’t matter if they are decent people or not. Because in the end they all side with the terrorists – their fellow Muslims – rather than the rest of us. They will not protest the murder of non-Muslims no matter who kills them for what reason. But a cut finger among a fellow sectarian brings them out en masse.

    In the end Salman Rushdie’s book was an insult to Islam worth protesting but a suicide bombing in London is not.

    So what if half of all smokers do not die of smoking-related diseases? So what if the vast majority of cigarettes do you no harm at all? In the end smoking is bad for your health and you should not do it even if only one in a million smokes will actually kill you.

  21. Should the US and Russia now come to some sort of understanding, and this is quite likely, shares in ISIS are set for a fall.

  22. “What would go through the mind of a man who would do that?”
    Something with a healthy muzzle velocity, I’s guess.

  23. Bah!
    Great minds eh?

    SMFS

    I was intending point out the difficulty of governing a people more afraid of their own enforcers than of yours. I hope somebody has a copy of the apartheid instruction book because we’re going to need it if we’re going to survive. The curfew section would be most useful over the next couple of weeks.

  24. The key to apartheid were the bantustans. Ideally Muslims would not live in the West, but if we must have them, better that they be contained in ghettos with heavy restrictions on leaving. Fortunately they’ve done half the work for us, we just need to lay land mines around the likes of Luton, Bradford and Blackburn.

  25. It seems to me that terrorists really like a low key, minimal response.
    As a.certain Lance corporal was won’t to say they don’t like it up ’em.
    I seriously doubt that they could do any more than they are, they are already doing their utmost, so we don’t need to worry about provoking them.
    We do need to quit apologising for ourselves and our past. The faults of the recent european empires were as nothing compared with the Arab, Ottoman, Mongol etc. Empires, and none of these were founded in response to anything the west did.
    On that last point we need to understand that Muslims have motivation of their own, it’s not all about us.
    Finally the less success Islamic fanatics are seen to get (in Muslim eyes) the fewer recruits they will get.
    Boils down to hit them as hard as possible and without apology.
    Perhaps we could treat apologists like they treat apostates?

  26. Sorry, but isn’t the real question here,

    “Since you, on the left, created both ISIS and right wing (ostensibly, don’t agree that this is a fair label, they’re usually socialist, at least in Europe) populism, what are you going to do with the shitstorm you’ve landed us all in?”

    Seems a reasonable question

  27. Stop the ritual slaughter of animals and criminalise the sale, distribution and consumption of halaal meat on established animal welfare grounds. This should discourage the shariah half of the hostile colonists.

  28. Nazis. Radical Islam.

    Note that we don’t say “radical” Nazis. “Radical” Islam is foolish.

    I agree with others above, there is no place for Islam in the West. Severely limit their presence here. That’s how you stop Islamic terrorism in the West. There is NO OTHER WAY.

    ‘Berlin will indeed prove more resilient to this kind of atrocity than many European cities’

    WTF does that mean? That Germans will accept continuing attrocities? That makes them BETTER ?!?!

  29. Leftists believe that the West is the root of all evil and the cause of all the world’s problems. So they can’t admit that the Islamist fanatics have their own agenda and their own ideology that exists independently of anything we do. That would mean admitting that not everything is the fault of the West, which is taboo. It is even more taboo for them to admit that anyone else could be worse than the West, so they always have to find some false equivalence between the mass-murdering terrorists and the left’s political opponents. They cannot face reality without admitting that their most fundamental assumptions are wrong.

  30. “They [the Left] cannot face reality without admitting that their most fundamental assumptions are wrong.”

    Well they’re getting a fair dose of reality right now on every front imaginable. And judging by the shrillness of the reactions to the events of 2016, they are struggling to keep the two (or more) sides of their cognitive dissonance from colliding. If by some miracle Wilders and Le Pen win in 2017 and/or the EU implodes, I fully expect a mass outbreak of mental breakdown on the Left.

  31. “I thought leftism was a certifiable mental illness in anyone over 20.”

    Pretty much. I put it down to 2 things:

    1) People who have never fully moved on from being children to being autonomous adults, and thus seek a parent substitute to protect them from life’s vicissitudes. These are less the people who actively promote Leftism, more the ones who will vote for it.

    2) Nasty authoritarian shits who always imagine themselves being the ones at the top of the power structure, power being their real aim, socialism just being the vehicle that allows them to attain it. These are the Richard Murphys, Paul Masons and Jeremy Corbyns etc of this world.

  32. The barbarism of Islam is almost impossible to fathom. By most estimates the Mughal conquest of India killed 80 million people. Timur killed a non-trivial fraction of the entire world’s population. In the 20th century, in addition to the Armenian genocide, the Turks killed 700 thousand Greeks during their war of ethnic cleansing. What can you do against that sort of mindset, except punctiliously and unreservedly administer death to its adherents?

  33. “What can you do against that sort of mindset, except punctiliously and unreservedly administer death to its adherents?”

    You could keep them corralled in the Middle East. Past tense. Obama’s assistance to Iran in building nukes eliminates the last millenia’s successful solution.

  34. Is not the coming Great Game access to adequate supplies of drinking water in the middle east? Surely we can cheaply and efficiently and at distance hold the fuckers to ransom that way?

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