Shouldn’t worse workers get less money?

Women suffer considerably higher levels of work-related stress, anxiety and depression than men, with workplace sexism and familial responsibilities providing additional career pressures, a leading psychiatrist has said.

It comes as official figures show that women aged 25-54 are more stressed than their male colleagues, with this pressure peaking for those aged 35-44, when many women are juggling family responsibilities, such as caring for children and elderly parents.

Dr Judith Mohring, lead consultant psychiatrist at Priory’s Wellbeing Centre in the City of London, said women were under constant, intense pressure, with company restructuring, lack of managerial support and balancing work and family life leaving them feeling drained.

Women faced additional workplace pressures, such as having to prove they were as good as men, not being valued or promoted, unequal pay, and being expected to “look the part”, added Mohring, who treats many female professionals.

38 comments on “Shouldn’t worse workers get less money?

  1. Almost too easy…

    “workplace sexism”

    Barely exists. Mostly aimed at men anyway.

    “and familial responsibilities providing additional career pressures, a leading psychiatrist has said.”

    No different for men. Next!

    “It comes as official figures show that women aged 25-54 are more stressed than their male colleagues, with this pressure peaking for those aged 35-44, when many women are juggling family responsibilities, such as caring for children and elderly parents.”

    Men also have children and parents, you fucking idiot. Basic biology.

    “Dr Judith Mohring, lead consultant psychiatrist at Priory’s Wellbeing Centre in the City of London, said women were under constant, intense pressure, with ”

    Wait for it…

    “company restructuring,”

    Same for men.

    “lack of managerial support”

    Same for men.

    “and balancing work and family life”

    Same for men.

    “leaving them feeling drained.”

    Same for men.

    “Women faced additional workplace pressures, such as having to prove they were as good as men,”

    Men have to prove they are as good as other men too, you know. Or maybe you don’t.

    “not being valued or promoted,”

    That happens to everyone.

    “unequal pay,”

    Yes, women often get paid more and work fewer hours.

    “and being expected to ‘look the part’,”

    Men obviously don’t have to dress in suits or suitable overalls. Never happens.

    “added Mohring, who treats many female professionals.”

    Ah, there’s money in it for Mohring.

  2. Just to focus on one stupidity on that article, it is this:

    and being expected to ‘look the part’

    Companies often have dress codes; those employing professionals almost certainly will. However, I have found that where staff don’t have to meet clients, it is the men who still have to wear the suits while the women tend to get away with just about anything.

    This article reads as one long fucking whinge. One factor she hasn’t considered, because it is completely beyond her comprehension: men shrug off a lot of the crap she is weeping about in the toilet cubicle and just get on with it

    There are people in my office who stress about absolutely fuck all. They wind themselves and each other up, and become ‘stressed’. The issues they are complaining about are utterly trivial.

  3. “There are people in my office who stress about absolutely fuck all. They wind themselves and each other up, and become ‘stressed’. The issues they are complaining about are utterly trivial.”

    Every HR dept in existence. Mainly staffed by…

  4. These people operate from a bullshit axiom that men and women are identical. Therefore any psychological differences are the fault of discrimination etc. You’ll never win because in their syphilitic minds equality is as set in stone as two parallel lines never meeting.

  5. Also, a man that burst into tears and retreated to the bogs at the slightest criticism would be considered unhinged.

  6. Women faced additional workplace pressures, such as having to prove they were as good as men,

    No. This isn’t early 80’s Britain circa ASHES TO ASHES. Nobody wears deely boppers and you can’t smoke in the office either.

    not being valued or promoted,

    Welcome to the world of work. Sorry someone stuffed your head with bollocks about how empowering a “career” is, but employers generally don’t give a fuck about your personal aspirations.

    unequal pay

    Symbolic of their struggle against reality.

    and being expected to “look the part”

    See the Welcome to Work pack referenced above.

  7. One has to wonder whether we should rejoice that we live in a society wealthy enough to indulge this kind of cockrot, or whether we should be concerned that we actually don’t.

    Me, I’m afraid this is a sign of decadence rather than success.

  8. DJ

    These people operate from a bullshit axiom that men and women are identical.

    Yes, up to a point. That point being when it’s in their interests to claim that women are not identical to men. When they want (say) equal pay or status, women are identical to men. When they want (say) period leave every month (with no loss of pay), women aren’t identical to men because they have special sex-specific ‘needs’ that it would be discriminatory to ignore.

  9. I wonder if there was a date we could commemorate when the national mood changed from mild stoicism to whining, neurotic tantrums?

  10. We could go for 06-Sep-97, Princess Di’s funeral. I think the weeping and wailing and chest beating as a virtue signal really started there. Open to suggestions for earlier dates.

  11. It comes as official figures show that women aged 25-54 are more stressed than their male colleagues

    There used to be a school of thought that said women wouldn’t be able to hack it in the workplace and maybe they ought not to enter certain professions. Maybe they were onto something?

    (Personally I don’t think so, but with articles like these…)

  12. Also, a man that burst into tears and retreated to the bogs at the slightest criticism would be considered unhinged.

    I’ve made a man cry at work. Although he was French and the criticism was far from slight.

  13. There used to be a school of thought that said women wouldn’t be able to hack it in the workplace and maybe they ought not to enter certain professions. Maybe they were onto something?

    Well, I wouldn’t be happy about being operated on by a pre-menstrual brain surgeon, and I’m less than keen on the idea of flying with a pre-menstrual pilot. And we know that in general women are more prone to anxiety than men and get more upset by what they perceive as threats, which can make them over-sensitive in certain workplaces. Women’s problem-solving abilities are generally just as good as men’s, assuming similar educational and professional backgrounds; but their hormonal fluctuations and their different emotional architecture can make them unsuitable for some occupations (as indeed are men).

  14. ‘work-related stress, anxiety and depression’

    Self-induced mental trouble, all within their own minds.

    ‘who treats many female professionals’

    And an enabling female professional who encourages it.

  15. A meta question: What is the relationship between the stupidity of a Guardian article, the number of comments, the length of time the comments are left open, the number of moderated comments and very high ratings for negative comments?

    I have a sense that the Guardian closes comments very quickly after a negative comment attracts a lot of upticks, or is obviously correct in pointing out that the article is idiotic.

    A mere 7 hours before I type this, commenter Richard Meal succinctly took apart the article, and good for him.

  16. I’ve long held the theory that individuals have have their own, personal, built-in preferred level of stress & worry & if you take away any of the current causes, they simply find something else to be stressed & worried about. They’ll even be stressed & worried about not having anything to be stressed & worried about.
    Articles like this tend to reinforce it.

  17. OT but…
    The night before Xmas Eve here we were opening all the windows & doors for 10 minutes to let in & capture the Xmas Spirit. Today I’ve been required to clean the entire house & tomorrow I should be handing red envelopes, containing money, to friends & acquaintances. Failure to do all this, amongst other things, will deny good luck for the coming year.
    OK, this is S.American shit but Spain labours under much the same nonsense, as do many other countries infected with the Catholic perversion. Can’t help wondering if this contributes to the underperformance in Latin countries & other cultures where the intervention of spirits or gods are taken seriously. And is there a relationship between how seriously those beliefs are held & how well people perform?.
    Seems to me, if you’re expecting luck or illusory deities to intervene on your behalf, you’re probably missing the opportunity to pull your finger out & achieve something for yourself.

  18. @BiS

    Yep, I’m like that.

    Having finally got myself into a good place in life, I then had to learn how to dismiss the random stressful thoughts that I conjure up instead of having real, current stuff to worry about.

    It’s an annoying software bug, but can be worked around unless one likes to wallow in it.

  19. Also, a man that burst into tears and retreated to the bogs at the slightest criticism would be considered unhinged.

    Or fabulously gay.

  20. tomorrow I should be handing red envelopes, containing money, to friends & acquaintances.

    Are you the leader of the local council?

  21. Search me, Rob. But the envelopes should be coloured red & 20€ notes was suggested.
    Apparently, if you give money, money will come to you.
    Not in my world, it doesn’t.

  22. bis,
    A.A. Milne had this covered:
    “The problem is,” said Eeyore, “there is no problem!”

    But that’s a general feature of society. Venezuela’s left-wing broadsheets moan about toilet paper shortages; ours moan about this sort of thing.

  23. ‘I then had to learn how to dismiss the random stressful thoughts that I conjure up’

    Exactly. The wymons have self-inflicted neurosis. Easily diagnosed by remote laymen. The shrink is engaged in malpractice, convincing the wymons their problems are someone else’s fault. Personality disorder is not the cure for neurosis. Their problems are all in their head.

  24. Cynic

    “Having finally got myself into a good place in life, I then had to learn how to dismiss the random stressful thoughts that I conjure up instead of having real, current stuff to worry about.”

    Arguably, evolution primed our minds to be anxious – ie looking for threats to avoid – but, in secure wealthy societies like ours, our minds have to invent threats to avoid. Jonathan Haidt, in The Happiness Hypothesis (2006), argues that there are three solutions: CBT, meditation or Prozac. Worth a read, as this is a crude summary.

    BiS

    “I’ve long held the theory that individuals have have their own, personal, built-in preferred level of stress & worry & if you take away any of the current causes, they simply find something else to be stressed & worried about…”

    Correct, and empirically established beyond reasonable doubt. However, you can ‘re-programme’ yourself and diminish your established anxiety levels, if you have the self-awareness and self-discipline to apply appropriate techniques.

  25. Gamecock

    “Their problems are all in their head.”

    True; but that does not make them unreal. They have real problems, and they should deal with their real problems.

  26. BiS–All of Europe and the UK were once just as laden with folkloric capers as you describe. See the books of Nigel Pennick.

    It need make no difference in terms of effort and prosperity. Our forefathers HAD to work hard regardless of what they believed in. I can’t say as to the Spanish or other latins.

  27. ‘True; but that does not make them unreal.’

    You have no way of knowing that.

    A shrink is for mental problems. If ‘They have real problems,’ a shrink can’t help them.

  28. Gamecock

    You are prescriptively defining ‘mental problems/neuroses’ as ‘unreal’. Mental states are real, and mental problems can be cured. The fact that neuroses and psychoses make it harder for someone to engage with reality does not make neuroses and psychoses unreal.

  29. ‘Women suffer considerably higher levels of work-related stress, anxiety and depression than men, with workplace sexism and familial responsibilities providing additional career pressures, a leading psychiatrist has said.’

    Theo, the doctor’s statement has double ought zero to do with mental states. Which is her actual job.

  30. GC
    One duff psychiatrist’s feminìst blatherings don’t mean that neurotic states of mind are not real.

  31. Andrew M said:
    “Venezuela’s left-wing broadsheets moan about toilet paper shortages”

    If you have a broadsheet to hand, is the lack of loo roll a major problem?

  32. You really can train yourself to be less anxious. It has amazing benefits: not necessarily in how your life actually is, but in how you perceive it. And in a great many cases, that perception will then cause your life to get objectively better as a result.

  33. Argumentum ad verecundiam.

    The psychiatrist’s statements on the workplace are junk.

    “don’t mean that neurotic states of mind are not real”

    Real to whom?

  34. Theophrastus – “Mental states are real, and mental problems can be cured. The fact that neuroses and psychoses make it harder for someone to engage with reality does not make neuroses and psychoses unreal.”

    Are mental states real? The problem is how would we know? What goes on in the mind is hard to read and we are not allowed to break the skull open and tinker any more.

    However the main point is that I doubt they can be cured. We can suppress symptoms. We can keep people in idle conversation until the problem resolves itself. And there are some limited options for CBT. We were better at treating schizophrenics in 1910 than we are now. Nigeria has more success than we do and they do nothing.

    I also wonder about cause and effect. Do some people find reality hard to deal with, or do we encourage them to “medicalise” their problems by suggesting they take a psychiatric route? Would we be better off suggesting to women that their problems are the work of the Devil rather than the unresolved issues they have with their fathers? I am beginning to suspect so. See Nigeria.

  35. SMFS

    Are mental states real? The problem is how would we know? What goes on in the mind is hard to read and we are not allowed to break the skull open and tinker any more.

    Are you sceptical about the reality of your own mental states as you read my words? Obviously not. As Descartes showed with his cogito.

    Yes, minds are hard to read, but the social nature of language and human behaviour mean that mental states are not entirely private. Solipsism is not a rational position to hold, as Wittgenstein showed with his Private Language Argument.

    And we know from MRI scans and EEGs that activity in certain areas of the brain is exactly correlated with certain mental states.

    However the main point is that I doubt they can be cured.

    Anxiety and depression can be cured. See my reply to Cynic and BiCR’s post above.

    Do some people find reality hard to deal with, or do we encourage them to “medicalise” their problems by suggesting they take a psychiatric route?

    Many people find reality hard to deal with – not least because we are genetically predisposed to identify potential threats (even when they don’t exist). That said, you are right about the over-medicalisation of such problems. Trick cyclists and counsellors tend to encourage neurotics to believe that they are victims when they should be encouraging them to take responsibility for their own mental health and hygiene. Intelligent and self-aware people can train themselves to be less anxious and depressed. Those who can’t cure themselves without some advice can find out about CBT and meditation on the web or in a good bookshop. In essence, it’s what used to be called the development of character.

  36. Missus invites a houseful over this NY. Makes specific plans for those specific people.

    My mate phones up.

    She invites my mate and his missus.

    My missus is proper stressing this morning because there’s now too many folks coming over for her NY plans to work.

    QED.

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