So, not a man then

A former Asda worker will be the first British man to become pregnant and will complete his gender transition after giving birth.
Hayden Cross, from Gloucester, had already undergone the preliminary stages to officially becoming a male, but has delayed the completion until giving birth.
The 20-year-old is four months pregnant after finding a sperm donor on Facebook, which prompted him to put the procedure on hold.

No, really, I do not care about the modern mores here. Someone who is pregnant with child is not a man.

It’s just about possible to think up ways in which they could be – there are recorded cases of a twin being absorbed in the womb (no, really) and so on. But someone who gets knocked up by an egg from the ovary meeting sperm (donated or traditional method) which then implants into the uterine wall and so on…..this is not a man. We can all have the politesse to call the person whatever they want, Fred, Fredericka, whatever, but this simply is not a man.

30 comments on “So, not a man then

  1. As I understand the present Party line, he can be if he wants to be. It does not matter that every single cell in her body has female DNA. It does not matter that her socialisation from birth, while flawed, was female, not male. It does not matter that she does not have, and never has had, a functioning penis.

    All she has to do is wish really hard and tap her red shoes together three times.

    And anyone who says otherwise is a h8r.

  2. The 20-year-old is four months pregnant after finding a sperm donor on Facebook,

    What would go through a “man”‘s mind before “he” would search Facebook for a sperm donor in order to have a child?

    The substance of being a man is sort of implicit in the inability to get pregnant. People who want to imitate what they are not usually imitate what they are not. People who want to be pregnant and what we would normally call women.

  3. “preliminary stages to officially becoming a male”

    I assume this was limited to changing the name to ‘Hayden ‘.

  4. If the woman has used her own resources to do her trans thing that is one case. As a former ASDA worker will she be paying for whatever the hell the surgeons do to her herself?

    If not how much will her delusions cost us?

    We need a “marxian tax” in that those who cheer for these antics have their money seized to pay for it.

  5. Probably and Hayden Cross sounds more like a motorway service station than either a man or a woman. The chaild will be called something like Welcome Break.

  6. Hayden, who lives in a council flat in Gloucester and receives unemployment benefits, has lived legally as man for three years.

    FFS! Mr. & Mrs. Taxpayer are funding this shyte!

  7. @BiC: Yup and will continue to do so while the Red Cross insists we have a ‘humanitarian crisis’* in the NHS…

    *We do, but it’s caused by the lack of humanity in the staff they employ.

  8. “It’s just about possible to think up ways in which they could be – there are recorded cases of a twin being absorbed in the womb (no, really) and so on.”

    What’s your definition?

    I thought at first you was stating (part of) your definition with “Someone who is pregnant with child is not a man.” But then you immediately contradict that by saying it’s not impossible. So presumably you have some other definition in mind? It’s hard to tell whether your initial statement follows if the terms are undefined.

    The definition implied by “modern mores” distinguishes between gender and sex. The “male” in the article refers to gender, while the pregnancy criterion seems only to be related to sex. And in this case, being partway through the transition, that’s ambiguous anyway.

    You could equally well say “someone with a beard is not a woman” and come to the opposite conclusion. There are lots of potential definitions. You’re welcome to use your own of course, but it’s best to be clear that it’s your own personal definition, not the one in official use by the rest of society.

  9. You are m/f be reason of what you are physically.

    You can declare yourself a woman or a horse or the Emperor Napoleon or whatever.

    Does not make it so.

    To claim that it does places Marxian subjectivism over reality.

    And would be the supreme triumph of a crew who have murdered 150 million and use their subjectivist evil to claim they are the good guys.

    Better the end of the world than the triumph of such Marxian evil.

  10. “Someone who is pregnant with child is not a man.”

    Report to the camp for re-education immediately.

  11. “You are m/f be reason of what you are physically.”

    Yep. Agreed!

    “You can declare yourself a woman or a horse or the Emperor Napoleon or whatever.”

    Agreed. And you can declare other people you see to be a woman or a horse or the Emperor Napoleon or whatever. It depends on your personal choice of definitions.

    “And would be the supreme triumph of a crew who have murdered 150 million and use their subjectivist evil to claim they are the good guys.”

    You’ll want to ask Alan Turing about that.

    For at least the past 3400 years homosexuality has carried the death penalty in some part of the world. Funnily enough, the ones doing it claimed to be the “good guys”, too, even while giving people whose sexuality they don’t approve of flying lessons off tall buildings.

    “Better the end of the world than the triumph of such Marxian evil.”

    I’m sure Mohammad would agree.

  12. NiV “For at least the past 3400 years homosexuality has carried the death penalty in some part of the world. Funnily enough, the ones doing it claimed to be the “good guys”, too, even while giving people whose sexuality they don’t approve of flying lessons off tall buildings.”

    The last homosexual hanged in the UK was in 1835 at a time when people were also being hanged for petty theft .

    Are you seriously suggesting that refusing to accept Marxian subjectivism–which is foundational to a creed that has the blood of 150 million on its hands–is equivalent to hanging homosexuals (when even the Judge in the 1835 case wrote to the Home Secretary asking for clemency ).

    And I am baffled by your remark about base-jumping sans a parachute when you yourself endorse allowing into this nation limitless numbers of those who advocate exactly that. On the demented theory that the goodness of Good Old England or Good Old Western Civilisation will magically cause them to embrace the Rainbow flag in short order.

    The danger of subjectivism indeed.

  13. “The last homosexual hanged in the UK was in 1835 at a time when people were also being hanged for petty theft.”

    Who is talking about just the UK? I said “in some part of the world”. Like in those bits your Muslim friends control.

    Or of course there’s the case of the Stalin’s addition of Article 121 to the Soviet criminal code, outlawing homosexuality and sending 800-1000 men each year to the Gulag. I think Maxim Gorky defended the policy saying that the “manly proletariat”, is obliged to persecute homosexuals to protect the youth from their corrupting effect. He also equated homosexuality with fascism, stating that destroying homosexuality would in turn destroy fascism.

    Or there was that other famous socialist and his pink triangles – quite a lot of homosexuals ended up in the death camps.

    It goes right back to the beginnings of Marxism – here’s Engels on the subject being his usual lucid self in a letter to Marx…

    “That is really a very odd ‘Urning’ you just sent me. Those are just unveilings being extremely against nature. The pederasts begin counting themselves and find that they are forming a power within the state. Only an organisation was missing, but according to this it seems to be already existing in the secret. And as they are counting so important men within all the old parties and even in the new ones, from Rösing to Schweitzer, their victory is inevitable. ‘Guerre aux cons, paix aux trous de cul’ it will go now. It is only a luck that we personally are too old to have to fear, this party gaining victory, to have to pay bodily tribute to the victors. But the young generation! By the way, only possible in Germany that a guy like that appears, translates the dirt into a theory and invites: introite, and so on. Unfortunately he was not yet as courageous as to confess openly being ‘That’, and still has to operate coram publico ‘from the front’ even though not ,from the front into as he once says by mistake. But first wait until the new North-German penal law has acknowledged the droits de cul then it will turn out quite differently. As for poor people from the front like us, with our childish favour for women, things will be going badly enough. If one could make use of that Schweitzer, it was to elicit from this strange man of honour the personal details of the high and the highest ranging pederasts, what surely would not be difficult for him as a congenial person….”

    Apparently, Ulrich had sent Marx a pamphlet extolling the virtues of “Uranian love” which he showed to Engels and Engels was not amused. Apparently, there was a secret conspiracy of gays in government doing all this and it was going to go badly for poor heterosexuals like Engels and Marx when they changed the law to acknowledge gay rights.

    History has a tendency to get rewritten by those with political axes to grind. Many of those 150 million were killed for being gay. Marxist support for homosexuality is mostly a more recent phenomenon.

    “And I am baffled by your remark about base-jumping sans a parachute when you yourself endorse allowing into this nation limitless numbers of those who advocate exactly that.”

    No I don’t.

  14. ” Marxist support for homosexuality is mostly a more recent phenomenon.”

    Divorced from reality and cleaving to the subjective they can change their minds more often than their underpants.

    My muslim friends???

    Considering that stopping all future imports and removing their vote were only 2 of the package of measures I advocate in regard to the RoP you have a very strange definition of friendship.

    Amongst other things.

  15. “Divorced from reality and cleaving to the subjective they can change their minds more often than their underpants.”

    Yes. They follow social fashions to try to gain popularity. During the era when society was anti-homosexual, they persecuted homosexuals. When social fashions changed and homosexuality became cool, they persecuted anti-homosexuality instead. It’s all the same.

    Marxists have no essential ideological position on homosexuality, one way or the other. Their aim is the power to persecute, and they’ll start on whatever group the rest of society will tolerate/support them persecuting. The residual resistance from their opponents to their newly-popular edicts justifies their use of more repressive and coercive measures. Once the precedent has been set, they can extend the boundaries to cover who they like.

    “Considering that stopping all future imports and removing their vote were only 2 of the package of measures I advocate in regard to the RoP you have a very strange definition of friendship.”

    Yes. I was using yours. Considering I’ve opposed socialism, authoritarianism, ‘politically correct’ restrictions on free speech, and supported freedom of belief and freedom of speech – it’s really weird that you should think I was a friend to leftists and SJWs. But there you go. If you use weird definitions, you can get some very weird-looking results…

  16. What’s the relevance of he/she/it being a “former ASDA worker”? Does your workplace have some effect on your “gender alignment”? Or are the Sun/Mail saying that if you work at ASDA you’ll end up the duff, whether you’re male or female?

  17. Where are the Mail subs?
    Multiple references to female to male transitions ‘keeping their female bits “in tact!”‘
    It is to weep.

  18. Being forced to participate in someone else’s hallucinations is just fucking rude. That’s what I can’t stand.

  19. NiV – “I think Maxim Gorky defended the policy saying that the “manly proletariat”, is obliged to persecute homosexuals to protect the youth from their corrupting effect. He also equated homosexuality with fascism, stating that destroying homosexuality would in turn destroy fascism.”

    It seems he was on to something there. As Johann Hari pointed out, all the post-war neo-Nazi movements have been led by Gays. Not to mention that more than a few of the Nazis were light in their loafers. It does seem to be a gay thing or at least have a lot of appeal to a certain type of homosexual. All those manly men. In uniform.

    I think most people would agree Gorky was right too. As Britain has showed.

    “Apparently, there was a secret conspiracy of gays in government doing all this and it was going to go badly for poor heterosexuals like Engels and Marx when they changed the law to acknowledge gay rights.”

    I am impressed. Engels was right about something! Who would have thought it?

    “History has a tendency to get rewritten by those with political axes to grind. Many of those 150 million were killed for being gay.”

    Roughly none of those 150 million were killed for being Gay. We see history being re-written before our eyes.

  20. What exactly does persecution of homosexuals have to do with the delusions of the mentally ill about what sex they are?

    There should be complete disregard of the term ‘gender’ in relation to anything other than French nouns.

  21. MC – “What exactly does persecution of homosexuals have to do with the delusions of the mentally ill about what sex they are?”

    Because me and NiV are actually in agreement – refusing to bend reality and the laws to accommodate these delusion nut cases is one short step from locking Gays up.

    Admittedly we view the result of that in very different ways.

  22. @MC

    Because the obvious logical conclusion of this line of argument is that homosexuality is also a form of mental illness, but this view is currently well beyond the pale.

  23. Well it should be beyond the pale because it’s fucking stupid: a category error. Gay people actually are gay, but you can’t have a Y chromosome and be a woman, no matter how fervently you might wish it were otherwise.

  24. Bloke in Costa Rica – “Well it should be beyond the pale because it’s fucking stupid: a category error. Gay people actually are gay, but you can’t have a Y chromosome and be a woman, no matter how fervently you might wish it were otherwise.”

    It is neither a category error nor f*cking stupid. If we are Blank Slates, if we are dominated by our conditioning and upbringing, then you can take a child with a Y chromosome and make it a girl. Or Gay. If, on the other hand, genes have a powerful and dominant effect on behaviour, someone with a Y chromosome is a male. And should be interested in sex with women. If he isn’t, there is something wrong with him.

  25. You’re welcome to use your own of course, but it’s best to be clear that it’s your own personal definition, not the one in official use by the rest of society.

    The one in official use is not the one in use by the rest of society.

  26. I’m going to start telling visitors to my house that my dogs are in fact cats. And I’ll get very angry with them if they call them “dogs”, the bigots.

  27. S2: The more enlightened among your visitors will immediately start showing the effects of allergy to cat hair and dander.

  28. “Gay people actually are gay, but you can’t have a Y chromosome and be a woman, no matter how fervently you might wish it were otherwise.”

    OK. So what’s your view on the Guevedoce boys? Up to puberty, they look and act like girls. At 12, they grow a penis and turn into a boy. Impossible?

    Sexual development is complicated, and does not always work perfectly. The Y chromosome normally causes the testes to release hydroxytestosterone in the womb, and testosterone at puberty, each of which trigger a cascade of other sex hormones which in turn cause different tissues all over the body and in the brain to develop along one pattern or another. These tissues respond in the expected way between 90-99% of the time, but sometimes genetic or developmental faults cause certain bits of the body not to respond as expected, or to respond when they shouldn’t.

    Gay people are gay because the bit of the brain that deals with sexual attraction developed according to the other pattern. Other bits of the brain didn’t – for example, it’s commonly noted that gay men are often as inclined to promiscuity as other men, while lesbians are as monogamous as other women. That other bit developed with the more common pattern.

    The Guevedoce boys have a genetic fault that blocks the production of hydroxytestosterone, but they produce and respond to testosterone normally. So from birth they develop entirely along the girl pattern, but at puberty they get a sex change courtesy of a male hormone shot. It’s entirely natural. They have Y chromosomes, but up until 12 they’re girls, having developed physically precisely as a girl would.

    Some sex-linked characteristics, like the ability to read maps or a facility with language, are fairly common in the other sex, but nobody notices much. Other characteristics, like what sex you’re sexually attracted to cause endless trouble, because there are strong social taboos about conforming to the accepted pattern.

    So the developmental biologists reckon there’s another brain module (or more likely, a group of them) that determines what gender you ‘identify’ as. There’s no doubt we all have one – if you raise a boy as if they were a girl (some radical feminists have tried the experiment) they rebel and carry on acting like boys, despite all the social pressures and bullying applied by peers and parents. They know. People are *wired* to know. And equally well, they can get accidentally wired with the wrong circuitry to ‘know’ they’re mentally the other gender.

    It’s the same sort of thing as homosexuality, or a girl who likes maths. It’s just a different bit of the brain being affected.

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