41 comments on “Interesting question

  1. Watch for Dear Mr Khan and his RoP friends looking to build a RoP power base on the mess Corbyn will leave behind.

    For this reason ZaNu’s behind-the-scenes antics remain of importance.

  2. BiND: “Whatever happened to the great thinkers and orators?”

    The Party went down the line of identity politics instead. What you see is the result.

  3. Have no idea if this is significant, but if you google Clive Lewis Norwich, where he is an MP you get John Lewis the dept store !

  4. And Dan Jarvis’ only qualification to be leader was that he looked pretty cool in camouflage toting a rifle.
    Rebecca L-B is just ghastly – a fluent duckspeaker. If she’s the best Labour can come up with, they really are screwed. So, when the time comes, let’s get our three quids out and vote for her.

  5. JuliaM – “The Party went down the line of identity politics instead. What you see is the result”

    +1. The Left has been intellectually bankrupt for a long time. All the interesting thinkers are on the Right and have been for at least a generation. The leadership contest is just the end result of a talent pool that has been declining since well before Blair.

  6. Lewis is far too young and callow. Perhaps he’s the Kinnock lookalike to drag them back & then get trampled by the artful & power-crazed when he’s done the job.

  7. Clive Lewis blamed racism for his failure to make progress as a BBC political reporter

    Yes, definitely Labour leader potential. He ticks all the boxes – identity politics, zero experience, lunatic sense of grievance.

  8. BiND,

    “Whatever happened to the great thinkers and orators?”

    Communism and socialism were still seen as probably the best way forwards back then. And to a certain extent, higher transaction costs made markets in many things more difficult. So they still attracted reasonable people.

    But what Blair learnt through focus groups before the 97 election is that the country just didn’t want socialism any longer. It didn’t care about “community” in that sense. That’s why it was all markets + higher taxes.

    And my theory on this is that politics in general just isn’t attractive enough to “great thinkers”. It’s like cars, or PCs. It’s basically done. There’s no large chunk of the middle ground that wants what Corbyn is selling.

  9. All bets are off for political careers in a situation where Cameron’s Remain in Europe government has changed into a UKIP arse sniffing anti immigrant shanbles without constiutional legitimacy.And the media say this party is united under a strong leader!!
    Economically , successive Tory “governments” comprise an insane project to inflate house prices to buy votes offf the ever so grateful working-classes which has left renters and mortgage slaves with not enough to spend , creating a permanent recession. They have now realised it doesn’t work but all opposition has been crushed .

  10. “Arse-sniffing” Reedy? Crude phrases like that were not used in your beloved 1950s. Shame on you.

    Paragraph 2 of your tripe needs to be cooled in an ice-bath before translation into English. So mortgages and renting use up most of our money? Cos everybody except leftist scum like you is a house-price obsessed loon and thick as pigshit?

    Project much do you?

  11. People were sensible enough to realise you still had a community when you had a market economy. Socialism destroys communities.

  12. “without constitutional legitimacy” – bollocks.

    The Conservative government was elected on a mandate to hold the referendum and then to implement the result.

    Unless you’re referring to Mrs May as PM, in which case you’re talking big, sweaty, hairy bollocks because Prime Ministers are not directly elected – they are generally selected from within the governing party.

  13. His former boss at the BBC really doesn’t speak highly of him.

    @DBCR – “without constiutional legitimacy”; your knowledge of the UK constitution is up there with Lewis’s it seems.

  14. Bloke in Wiltshire

    “Communism and socialism were still seen as probably the best way forwards back then. And to a certain extent, higher transaction costs made markets in many things more difficult. So they still attracted reasonable people.”

    I’m not sure all the great thinkers and orators of Labour were communists. I’ll give Healy and Callaghan the benefit of the doubt. Wilson was a self centred slimy git but he was a good orator and I’d give him a pass as well.

    Come to think of it, there many many in the current Conservative Party. Certainly Oliver Letwin, John Redwood, and Dan Hannan as thinkers, but who gets the masses interested with a great speech? May is a bland as a wet fish with ideas that are more old Labour than Conservative and Cameron was worse when it came to speeches.

    Or maybe its just me getting old and even more cynical?

  15. Renters and mortgage slaves with not enough to spend?

    That would account for the retail sales figures? There are variations over time but the spending figures suggest that people do have enough to spend. And are spending it.
    Now if mortgage rates go up to say 5% then yes you could argue that mortgage slaves, whatever they may be, will struggle as their payments will have gone up a chunk. But at the moment?

  16. “@DBCR – “without constiutional legitimacy”; your knowledge of the UK constitution is up there with Lewis’s it seems.”

    And sadly most of the population as well. It doesn’t help that the BBC does nothing to point out this mistake, which shows either ignorance or a certain deliberation, either of which is another reason to defund and Eckspurge them.

  17. I would refer to the article in the current New Age by Associate Prof Pavlos Eleftheriadis from Oxford , entitled “The Illegitimacy of Brexit” as the basis for my claim that May is acting unconstitutionally over Brexit .Briefly: by insisting on border controls on Europeans coming here to work and pay tax and rejecting the European Court of Justice ,May has arrogantly taken it upon herself to restrict this country to a Hard Brexit only -which is unconstitutional.
    As Martin Wolf has magisterially demolished the economic case in the FT , the manic Brexiteers and UKIP silly persons should in a real world be giving up .

  18. DBC Reed: Briefly: by insisting on border controls on Europeans coming here to work and pay tax and rejecting the European Court of Justice
    What’s so special about Europeans that makes border controls unconstitutional? After all, we have border controls on everyone else.

  19. Look, be kind to DBC Reed. He’s suffered a great shock over the last year. The Left have suddenly had the rug pulled from under their feet. They were the Establishment, in charge, they got to call the shots regardless of who won elections, red/blue/yellow. Now suddenly a greater power, the electorate, has spoken on a matter that will reverse a massive amount of what the Left have spent the last 30 years putting in place. Its rather akin to how the Tories must have felt in 1945 – who are these upstart Labour Johnnies? How dare the voters vote them in!!! Don’t they know we are in charge of things around here???

    Brexit is going to define the direction of travel for the UK for the next half century in the way the 1945 election did for the UK, and in the opposite direction. The Left just haven’t come to terms with it yet and they’re flailing around.

  20. DBC R

    As Martin Wolf has magisterially demolished the economic case in the FT”

    I was prepared to listen to the evidence in support of your ‘argument’……..until that line!

    That’ll be the same Martin Wolf, magisterial or otherwise, who has been getting his predictions stupendously wrong for the last decade, is it?

  21. DBC Reed – which part of “Leaving the European Union” didn’t you get?

    It’s those who try to pick and choose EU features like there’s some kind of smorgasbord available that are being dishonest. The EU itself says that such cherry-picking will not be acceptable.

    We’re leaving. A constitutionally correct referendum result is being enacted by the legitimate government of the day. You really should quit bellyaching over it.

  22. Really, Reedy?

    Economically , successive Tory “governments” comprise an insane project to inflate house prices to buy votes offf the ever so grateful working-classes which has left renters and mortgage slaves with not enough to spend , creating a permanent recession. They have now realised it doesn’t work but all opposition has been crushed .

    Sorry, but I’m from the working class and I paid my mortgage off in less than ten years, quite recently. Factory worker Dad cleared his by the time he was 50.

    Are you another posh lefty talking shit about things you don’t understand, by any chance?

  23. “But who is he?”

    “Lewis was born in London but grew up on a council estate in Northampton. He studied economics at the University of Bradford before being elected to various student union roles and then serving as vice-president of the National Union of Students. Lewis then worked as a TV reporter for BBC News, becoming BBC Look East’s chief political correspondent. He was also one of the Labour government’s National Black Role Models. In 2006, he passed out of Sandhurst as an infantry officer with the Territorial Army, and he served a three-month tour of duty in Afghanistan in 2009”

    Moar here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Lewis_%28politician%29

  24. I doubt many people have been vice-presidents of the NUS and also served in Afghanistan. Quite a contrast.

  25. Dave Ward / Rob

    Indeed, partially “rescued” in the last sentence…

    Re Reedy – Jim nails it. It explains the increasing delusions / trauma over the last year.

  26. Pavlos Eleftheriadis draws up a complex argument as does Martin Wolf.What’s the way to deal with them? Don’t read them and talk bollocks apparently . Particularly interesting are all the hymns of praise to the housing market and the rush to deny it leaves people short of spending power; it was government stooges who said in the recent Housing White Paper that half of renters pay half their wages in rent. This is actually mad.And how can this market be “broken”? The market is constantly adjusting to changing circumstances blah,blah,blah.

  27. Where are these “hymns of praise to the housing market” that DBC claims to be seeing? It’s early to be hitting the bottle so hard, old chap. As for the chap with the Greek name, it would have to be a complex argument to assert that May is acting unconstitutionally because it is self-evidently an assertion of utter bollocks.

  28. Rob, aren’t you making a very broad assumption here? “I doubt many people have been vice-presidents of the NUS and also served in Afghanistan.”
    Surely it depends whose side he was on?

  29. urely it depends whose side he was on?

    True, but generally ‘served’ is used for fighting in regular armed forces, while ‘fought’ would be more appropriate for a scumbag who spent his time setting roadside bombs or machine gunning women in markets.

  30. @DBC

    I’m working class, bought my first house in 2012. My mortgage payments currently represent ~17% of my pretax income, or ~22% of post tax income, and I’m on track to clear my mortgage by the time I’m 45 (and if I cared, I could very easily make that sooner).

    All this stuff about mortgage slavery is either Londoncentric nonsense (don’t like it, go live somewhere nicer/cheaper), or folks with insane levels of entitlement buying stuff they can’t afford (hint, my mortgage is affordable because I bought a house I could afford, rather than leveraging myself to 20x income to buy a 8 bedroom farmhouse with 6 acres of land or whatever ), or occasionally both.

  31. Reedy–markets are broken or damaged all the time by political –mostly socialist scum.

    You are an increasingly crazy creep who spends his time referring to the deceitful bullshit of one lying psycho after the next and all of them a loon too far.

  32. @MR Ecks
    Please explain how half of renters paying half of their wages in rent is good for generalised spending power( effectual demand).The figures come from the Government( not socialist you may have noticed).
    @ The Prole The problem is that the Londoncentric do not have much choice: they either pay London rents and mortgages or get no good well-paid work at all.This is the market system which is supposed to solve all problems without well-paid decision makers having to do anything.

  33. “The figures come from the Government( not socialist you may have noticed).”

    You what? BluLabour and the Queen of Dress Up aren’t socialist? A dozy cow who parrots cultural Marxist bullshit on a daily basis.

    As ever Reedy your analysis of matters is like to give superficiality a bad name. Your sources are nearly as worthless as your expert commentary on them.

    As for your answer to the Prole–how many fucking times does it have to be fucking explained to you that we do not live in a “free market” society? Yes there is enough freedom–just–that we are not facing the daily agony of slow-death-by-socialism like Venezuela. But every thing in our society is heavily damaged by statism in general and socialism in particular.

  34. @Mr X
    The Queen of Dress Up is the Conservative Prime Minister presumably.
    This exchange is getting too loony for me. By all means carry on talking to yourself: don’t let me stop you.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.