Called free speech honey

Books why deny the Holocaust are available on Amazon:

Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said Amazon’s decision to promote Holocaust deniers on the platform was “shocking and wrong”.

“The Holocaust was one of the most well documented and researched periods in history, yet even in 2017, over 70 years later, there are still those who deliberately deny, denigrate and belittle the memory of the Holocaust,” she said.

“Holocaust denial is highly offensive and the intent is anti-semitism, pure and simple. To have this offensive material widely accessible via any retailer is shocking and wrong.”

See headline.

53 comments on “Called free speech honey

  1. Hey, so here’s a funny story from the Jewish Telegraph- ‘Remember the 11 million’? Why an inflated victims tally irks Holocaust historians”

    Basically, Holocaust advocates are now saying that the number of about five million non-Jews killed in the Holocaust- a mix of homosexuals, communists, and Gypsies, most of whom deserved it- with Poles and other Slavs, who decidedly did not- was made up. A convenient untruth. A lie. With no basis in fact. Created by the ‘famous’ Simon Wiesenthal.

    The number of non-Jewish casualties was simply made up, because it enabled the people using it to advocate their own cause. Makes you think, eh?

  2. @Paul,

    So 5 million gay, gyppo, JW, and commie victims were made up because of course, the rest of the world was so sympathetic to gays, gyppos, JWs, and commies?

    Rilly?

  3. As Homer would say: “Mmmmm, free speech honey”. Or did you mean “Called free speech, honey”?

    Freemasons were also killed in the holocaust, estimated at between 80,000 and 200,000. When Field-Marshal Paulus surrendered at Stalingrad, he was denounced as a “high-grade Freemason”.

  4. “Basically, Holocaust advocates are now saying that the number of about five million non-Jews killed in the Holocaust- a mix of homosexuals, communists, and Gypsies, most of whom deserved it”

    Much as I hate to agree with Biggie and much as I understand the motivation to repay Marxian scum for their evil “deserved it” is a lousy thing to say. Apart from a very small number of predators the vast majority of homosexuals are harmless when not being used as a tool by the left and predatory Gypsies/Tinkers are best chastised by means of a call to the police or , more effectively, a fistfight rather than socialist mass-murder programs.

  5. I don’t doubt the holocaust happened; I also don’t doubt that the Jewish diaspora have milked it for all its worth.

  6. What folks like Karen Pollock don’t appear get is that free speech allows complete idiots – such as holocaust deniers, socialists, and the like – to announce to the world that they are complete idiots.

    It’s actually quite useful.

    These days, I almost like it when someone says “WAYCISM!” because they’ve just let me know I can safely choose to ignore any opinions they have. Saves time and effort.

  7. Have several times come across Jews who deny 11 million died. To the victims and the families of the victims is there really a difference between being killed for one reason over another? The victims are still dead.
    Not all but a number of Jews really don’t want people talking about 11 million dead – have been called a holocaust denier myself for mentioning all the dead. I have no problem with the fact the holocaust happened – I am in no way I can see a holocaust denier. Just I am also not a ‘Germans and allies killed people’ denier either.

    I do not make light of the holocaust however it is one part of a larger issue. To deny that issue to focus on the part is to me incredibly wrong.

    Now if individuals have a problem with what books someone else writes maybe that’s between them and those individuals. Perhaps they can write books refuting whats in the denial books. Like other people do over disagreements.

  8. Now if you want mass killing of people because of who they are try the Chinese. Nanking, where many thousands of Chinese were saved from being killed by the Japanese. And they were saved by a Nazi.
    Which shows that not everyone was the same. 🙂

  9. When I was a laddie the number bruited about was 8 million. Whether that was intended to correspond to the present-day 6 million or the present-day 11 million, I have no idea.

    As for the 6 million figure being authoritative because Historians, I remark that I’ve met a few historians in my time. Only one was really clever, and there were a couple whom I wouldn’t trust an inch.

    Why would it matter whether there were 5, 6 or 7 million murdered? The poor buggers were slaughtered on a massive scale: isn’t it rather missing the point to obsess about the number to use in headlines?

  10. @dearieme, quite. And trying to understand the process that creates a regime/nation where such ‘solutions’ are conscionable.

    Note also, by the way, that technology is already ‘denormalising’ fringe opinions like this. What’s the betting that, given her browser history, Ms Pollock is getting a lot more of these books in her amazon recommendations than almost everyone else?

  11. A victim, or the member of a victim group, is the thing to be, so, inevitably, the numbers will steadily inflate. Soon, the gender-fluid, the trannies and the whole polymorphously perverse alphabet soup will be claiming that their group(s) were in the gas ovens, too. Even the Holocaust must be inclusive.

    Also, the cynic in me wonders if the left isn’t inclined, at least subconsciously, to boost the Nazi victim total in order to ease its conscience about the far greater numbers killed by communist regimes by claiming some sort of numerical (and so moral) equivalence.

    Anyway, Dearieme nails it, though. This was murder on an industrial scale, and obsessing about a million here or a million there is morally irrelevant.

  12. the trannies … will be claiming that their group(s) were in the gas ovens, too

    Given what I’ve read about the 1920s-’30s nightclub scene in Berlin, they’d probably be correct too.

  13. SE
    Quite so! Let’s have an inclusive and equal opportunity Holocaust! Open to all regardless of gender…contd p94

  14. Why would it matter whether there were 5, 6 or 7 million murdered? The poor buggers were slaughtered on a massive scale: isn’t it rather missing the point to obsess about the number to use in headlines?

    +1

    Both the Holocaust revisionists and Holocaust Sanhedrin seem to be operating under the belief that if Joe Public starts suspecting Hitler “only” murdered 3 million, 4 million or 5,999,999 Jews, he’ll decide: Wtf? I love Hitler now???

    I think normal people made their minds up about Hitler when they heard about the mass murder bit, and are just tired of hearing about the bloody Holocaust.

    Yes, it was awful, terrible, never forget and all that. But it also happened in another country the best part of a century ago, and our grandparents both died in huge numbers and bankrupted Britain to put a stop to the people who did it, and those people have all since died as well.

    So… are we supposed to feel guilty or something? And how many depressing Oscar-bait movies about it do we need to see?

  15. “So… are we supposed to feel guilty or something? And how many depressing Oscar-bait movies about it do we need to see?”

    Well its portrayed as an evil only white people could perpetrate. Conveniently forgetting Rwanda, the Congo, 1400 years of Islamic aggression, etc etc ad utter nauseam.

  16. SE, the trannies probably went to Dachau after the Night of the Long Knives. No need to wait for the 40s before taking measures

  17. If I was Jewish in Europe I might be mentioning it a few times too, given that I would look around me and not be entirely convinced it would never happen again.

  18. Surely we are talking about the wrong victims here.

    I am still recovering from the haunting vision of the Murphatollah’s sons standing in a concentration camp and realising that its victims had so much in common with the Murphatollah himself. Or something. Anyway the holocaust was really about him.

  19. I find the most agressively vociferous advocates of free speech seem to have a problem with free response. So I have no doubt there will be some quite offended by me asking what halfway decent person could possibly use terms such as ‘holcaust advocates’, refer to some of the victims as deserving it or suggest that the murder of many millions is only “one part of a larger issue”.

    And finally, Martin, who assures us he has “no problem with the fact the holocaust happened…” ooh thank you so very much.

  20. Steady on, Martin’s phrasing was perhaps infelicitous but not quite that meaning I think. “I have no problem with the historical evidence that it happened” rather than “I’ve no problem with 11 million people being shot or shoveled into gas ovens”.

  21. Is a “holcaust advocate” one who supported the act or someone who opposes those who say it never happened?

  22. Steady on, Martin’s phrasing was perhaps infelicitous but not quite that meaning I think. “I have no problem with the historical evidence that it happened” rather than “I’ve no problem with 11 million people being shot or shoveled into gas ovens”.

    Yes, that was obvious to me anyway.

  23. Tim

    I understood it to mean “I have no problem accepting it happened”. To which my reply is “ooh thank you”.

  24. “I don’t doubt the holocaust happened; I also don’t doubt that the Jewish diaspora have milked it for all its worth.”

    Certain people with an agenda may do what you say, but as someone who lived in a Jewish area until I married, I can assure you it was never spoken of certainly not in front of me.
    I have an aunt who married a camp survivor complete with tattooed wrist, and he never spoke about it either, for understandable reasons.

  25. I’ve actually read the David Irving stuff, and a lot of it is Dan Brown-ian (or Erik Von Danikensian). Along the lines of: So the most methodical nation in Europe didn’t have a list of everyone who was exterminated like vermin? We honestly don’t know the real numbers? My, there were a lot of Holocaust survivors, weren’t there? And so on. Flubber has it right: the numbers don’t matter, the barbarism does.

    Irving also thinks Dresden was barbaric (who thinks blowing people up is not?), a bit like Peter Hitchens. They simply forget that the Krauts, having invented bombing our cities in a previous war, were shooting off V1s and V2s at the time. I’d be prepared to bet big money that the ceramics factories in Dresden had put aside the moulds for those cutesy baroque figurines and were making spark plugs and insulators for the war effort.

    As for the Nuremberg defence (‘orders are orders’), I suspect that most of us would patrol the wire rather than be shot or have our families share the striped pyjama fate. That doesn’t mean that we would all have made lampshades out of skin.

    Finally, David Irving is undoubtedly a shit, but who thinks the Lippstadt woman isn’t?

  26. Finally, David Irving is undoubtedly a shit, but who thinks the Lippstadt woman isn’t?

    Can’t be arsed with any of them. Irving is a lunatic who called the judge – in court when he was suing for libel after being called a ‘Holocaust denier’ – mein fuhrer.

    Lipstadt is an Abe Vigoda lookalike.

    As for the Holocaust Educational Trust, which boasts One of our earliest achievements was ensuring that the Holocaust formed part of the National Curriculum for History

    I get it why Jews fixate on the Holocaust. But the vast majority of British people are not Jews. So while I’d tend to agree kids should learn about it, a bit of perspective is in order. Especially since we’re the descendants of people who stood up to the Nazis and beat the shit out of them.

    What are the odds, though, that the Holocaust Educational Trust’s nearly £4m annual budget – of which about £2m is hoovered out of UK taxpayers’ pockets – goes on teaching young Britons to be proud that our country sacrificed so much to defeat Naziism?

    As opposed to wanky-danky and most likely counterproductive attempts to inculcate da yoof with a vague sense of guilt over what Germans did?

  27. “Irving also thinks Dresden was barbaric”

    War is barbaric.

    Dresden was a railroad center, a very legitimate target.

  28. …or suggest that the murder of many millions is only “one part of a larger issue”

    But the truth is self-evident, Ironman. If the Nazis hadn’t killed a single Jew (as such – obviously some Jews would have died in WW2 along with their neighbours), and never opened a single concentration camp but merely annexed Austria, grabbed the Sudetenland, invaded Poland, annexed the Baltic states, and then invaded Denmark and Norway… Well, I think we would still have had some problems to deal with, no?
    The holocaust was not the central event of the 1939 – 1945 period. That does not lessen the horror or the inhumanity.

  29. Q. How do you get 50 Jews into a Mini?
    A. In the ash tray.

    That’s a joke doing the rounds on some US alt-right forums. No, I don’t find it particularly funny. But all mirth is good.

  30. Re: Theophrastus

    25 years ago it was:

    Q. How do you get 5 Indian Prime Ministers into a Mini?
    A. Two in the front, two in the back and Indira Ghandi In the ash tray.

    Its an old old gag.

  31. “The holocaust was not the central event of the 1939 – 1945 period.”

    Not at the time, anyway, because the masses didn’t really know it was happening.

  32. As opposed to wanky-danky and most likely counterproductive attempts to inculcate da yoof with a vague sense of guilt over what Germans did?

    You can bet the sense of guilt is intended to be ours though, because whatever you do, don’t mention the war, as it is un-European.

  33. Irving is a lunatic who called the judge – in court when he was suing for libel after being called a ‘Holocaust denier’ – mein fuhrer.

    His Stalingrad moment.

    I have a vision of a defence counsel with his head in his hands as a bright faced sweaty defendent beams triumphantly from the witness box.

  34. I never really understood Holocaust denial. Surely a true far-right extremist would be jolly pleased that it happened?

  35. Andrew M – “I never really understood Holocaust denial. Surely a true far-right extremist would be jolly pleased that it happened?”

    I assume it is baby steps. First get people to accept it didn’t happen, then minimize it some more, then say that there were some bad apples among the guards but everyone manfully did his duty, then suggest it was a jolly good thing, then repeat.

    I expect in private they are jolly pleased.

    Compare and contrast with someone like Eric Hobsbawm. Who said it was all worth it. That sort of justification is never criticised.

  36. Gamecock – “War is barbaric.”

    There are degrees. Otherwise you justify all that Hitler and Stalin did.

    “Dresden was a railroad center, a very legitimate target.”

    If they were trying for the railway yards, this would be an interesting point. They weren’t. They were trying to burn women and children alive. Which they did. This is not, perhaps, a sensible thing to do. Especially as it was mostly a complete waste of resources. Often the right thing to do is also the best thing.

  37. “I never really understood Holocaust denial. Surely a true far-right extremist would be jolly pleased that it happened?”

    Well, Moslem Arabs, who are mentally crippled by the most barbaric culture currently in existence, oscillate between saying the Holocaust never happened and decrying Hitler for not finishing the job. It’s this sort of schizophrenia that means they’ll likely never grow up enough to be treated like adults.

  38. Speaking of Free Speech,

    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/11/black-lives-matter-co-founder-appears-to-label-white-people-defects

    TORONTO – A co-founder of Black Lives Matter Toronto argued that white people are “recessive genetic defects” and purportedly mused about how the race could be “wiped out” according to a post on what appears to be her Facebook page.

    Yusra Khogali has faced increased scrutiny over the past year after BLM Toronto gained political influence following their disruption of the Toronto Pride parade and confrontations with Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne.

    On Friday, Toronto police announced they would not participate in this year’s upcoming parade. This has been a longstanding demand of BLM TO and one that the board of Pride Toronto recently backed in a controversial vote.

    Khogali has a track record of inflammatory, divisive rhetoric.

    Only last week during a protest in front of the US consulate Khogali shouted into a microphone that “Justin Trudeau is a white supremacist terrorist” and urged the crowd to “rise up and fight back.”

    “Look at us, we have the numbers,” she said.

    She also faced controversy in the news for a tweet posted a year ago stating: “Plz Allah give me strength to not cuss/kill these men and white folks out here today.”

    While these remarks alarmed many Canadians, they pale in comparison to a statement numerous sources forwarded to the Sun that Khogali appears to have posted on Facebook in late 2015.

    “whiteness is not humxness,” the statement begins. “infact, white skin is sub-humxn.” The post goes on to present a genetics-based argument centred on melanin and enzyme.

    “white ppl are recessive genetic defects. this is factual,” the post reads towards the end. “white ppl need white supremacy as a mechanism to protect their survival as a people because all they can do is produce themselves. black ppl simply through their dominant genes can literally wipe out the white race if we had the power to.”

    When you import people, you import your future ruling class. Good luck with that Canada.

  39. Holocaust denial is of course illegal in Germany and Austria. I can see the logic in that, guilt complex and “never again” .

    There were plans in the EU Parliament to extend this as a crime across Europe.
    An Austrian radio reporter rather snifily said that the only people who would oppose such a law were “Anglo Saxon conservatives who would complain about free speech.”
    I was just hoping that Brown or Cameron would introduce such a law so that I could have some “I deny the holocaust” T shirts and see if I could get arrested after wearing them on telly.

  40. “annexed the Baltic states”: it was the USSR wot dun that, the summer after it invaded Poland as Hitler’s partner in crime.

  41. Thanks Tim, Rob.

    Someone want to suggest to the holocaust education people that perhaps children should at the appropriate age be taught about genocide? Its rather more widespread and damning than the holocaust. And some may have come across it on the TV news at the time.
    My school didn’t teach 20th century history until GCSE so I didn’t get taught the holocaust until uni.
    Not a subject that I would recommend to anyone. Genocide as a subject was worse.

  42. SMFS – yes war is barbaric. However there is a difference between attacking targets of strategic / tactical value and barbaric behaviour such as My Lai massacre or Oradur-Sur-Glane massacre.
    Pretty much every city was subject to targeting by bombers for the purpose of strategic bombing. The effect is the same as some soldier deliberately shooting an unarmed civilian simply for being the wrong nationality – but bomber crews tended to not be charged with war crimes or military justice over their actions. Same effect on the recipient, they are dead or injured – but different military actions afterwards over such things. Even today.

  43. Martin – “However there is a difference between attacking targets of strategic / tactical value and barbaric behaviour such as My Lai massacre or Oradur-Sur-Glane massacre.”

    I agree. And yet the working class suburbs of Hamburg and other cities were not of strategic or tactical value. It was terror bombing and nothing else. There is not a lot of difference between incinerating women and children in Dresden (or Hamburg or London or wherever) and the Oradur massacre. Both were aimed at ending the war through terror. One may have been more effective than the other.

    “but bomber crews tended to not be charged with war crimes or military justice over their actions.”

    As long as they win. Actually Britain jailed a bomber pilot for refusing to bomb because it was contrary to the laws of war.

  44. …“annexed the Baltic states”: it was the USSR wot dun that

    Oops – Yes. Little German fellow would still have been a problem, though.

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