This goes from reasonable to absurd

In its annual audit of the far right, Hope not Hate, the UK’s largest anti-racism and anti-extremism movement, said that although conventional far right groups such as the English Defence League continue to fracture, new forces have surfaced that can reach a vast international audience and bolster support for the “alt-right”, which is defined as the far right with a fringe “white nationalist element” that opposes multiculturalism and defends “western values”.

There’s something of a difference between calling for Jews to be reintroduced to gas ovens and wondering whether the vibrancy offered in Rotherham to the young girls in council care is a good idea.

But apparently all are the same now.

An example of these activities is provided by London-based Paul Watson, described as “editor, staff writer” for the conspiracy website InfoWars – whose most popular article on Friday morning was headlined: “Trump destroys leftist judges.” Watson, who has 483,000 Twitter followers and 764,872 subscribers on YouTube, is named as a central disseminator of the conspiracy theory concerning Hillary Clinton having debilitating health issues in the runup to the US election, including the “Is Hillary Dying?” hoax.

I’ve no idea about this bloke and maybe he is one to stoke up the ovens. But given that Hillary did in fact publicly collapse from “pneumonia” it’s hardly either Alt Right or Ctrl Left to question her physical fitness now, is it?

By the way, the answer to the dying question is “Yes.” As with all of us, one day at a time.

During a series of unashamedly conspiratorial videos that were viewed millions of times, Watson, originally from Sheffield, suggested Clinton might have had syphilis, brain damage and Parkinson’s disease as well as alleging she was a drug abuser.

Syphilis, in these days of antibiotics, is most unlikely. But we do in fact know that she has brain damage–that knock on the head did indeed produce a blood blockage. Now you might not want to term that brain damage but it is, in a strict sense, exactly that. And Parkinsons is a possibility although there’s vanishingly little proof.

But the important point here is that sure, there really are vile people out there with some horrible views. Asking whether Hills is ill doesn’t make you one of them nor is it a vile view to hold.

Another Briton said to have had an influential intervention in the US elections is 52-year-old Jim Dowson, a Scottish Calvinist who founded the far right, anti-Muslim party Britain First. Dowson, from a hub in Hungary, set up a network of US-focused websites and Facebook groups with the intention of promoting Trump and denigrating his rival during the US election.

Dowson’s websites include Patriot News Agency – whose postings have been viewed and shared tens of thousands of times in the US – and whose articles on Friday include a critique of a new Netflix series which it accused of stoking anti-white racism. An investigation by the New York Times in December claimed that although a sizeable volume of US election fake news emanated from central and Eastern Europe, Dowson’s operation was the only obviously politically inspired intervention.

Horrors, eh? Free speech rights being exercised by the wrong person.

And then the reveal. Of course, the obvious dividing line between these behaviours has to be blurred so that they can get Milo and Steve Bannon into he evil stoke the ovens grouping.

Sorry to have to tell he Hope not Hate folks this but simply disagreeing with you is not evidence of anything other than simply disagreeing with you on the design of The Good Society. Shouting Heil Trump and listening to David Irving respectfully are good evidence of idiocy if nothing else but really, you’re doing your whole cause a disservice by equating this with sneering at Hills.

37 comments on “This goes from reasonable to absurd

  1. So basically the nazi fascist movement in the UK is so small that we can name and report on each individual?
    Game over. Job done. Find another problem to solve.

  2. Shouting Heil Trump and listening to David Irving respectfully are good evidence of idiocy if nothing else but really, you’re doing your whole cause a disservice by equating this with sneering at Hills.

    Some of Irving’s early work is actually very good. Or so people tell me. I haven’t read any of it. However his work has certainly been cited well by people who should know. I am not sure that what he did was much worse than what any other historian has done.

    But the Alt-Right and the Ctl-Left presumably are like the Nazis and the German Communist party in one way – they both want to destroy the middle ground. Both of them want to say there are only two choices – pushing Jews into ovens or celebrating the rape of girls in Rotherham.

    To that end the Nazis and the KPD co-operated to destroy the Social Democrats and the Centre Party. I am not sure these people are not tacitly co-operating either.

  3. “…set up a network of US-focused websites and Facebook groups with the intention of promoting Trump and denigrating his rival…”

    The blackguard! The cad! The absolute bounder!

  4. “Hope not Hate” –what a sick name for the same socialist vermin responsible for mass murder and the Gulags–are a gang of Marxian agitators on the lines of Black Lives Matter or the Southern Poverty Law Centre. In short–lying, deceiving scum. If they called themselves “Marxian Agitators Matter–But You Don’t” that would be a better name for them.

    Anybody who counters the endless lies of leftist scum is of course Hitler. In fact PJW is extremely mild. He calls out the left for the scum they are and they don’t like it. Alex Jones is loud, shouty and has anger issues (I should talk) and if he were a bit more calm and measured he would be more effective but his heart is in the trim–ie set against socialist scum who have murdered millions and are looking to keep their evil going with the blood of millions more.

  5. opposes multiculturalism and defends “western values”.

    This article and this opinion needs to be more widely spread, especially in Labour constituencies in the North. People need to know that they are fascists and nazis for opposing multiculturalism and defending (SCARE QUOTES!!) things like free speech, equality before the Law and other extremist nonsense.

    That’s how you get the working class back.

  6. “Shouting Heil Trump and listening to David Irving respectfully are good evidence of idiocy if nothing else but really, you’re doing your whole cause a disservice by equating this with sneering at Hills.” – Nail and head.

    But that applies equally to the Left (and I can hear Mr Ecks rolling his eyes from here) – not everyone to the left of Tony Blair wants gulags and full collectivism under the almighty State.

    I sometimes wonder how useful it would be if both schools of thought took the time and effort to expose their OWN extremists instead of creating caricatures of their opponents.

  7. Hillary Clinton is one of those people, give me the impression isn’t dying one day at a time. I’ve a suspicion she sleeps in a coffin nights & has an aversion to sunlight & crosses.

  8. “not everyone to the left of Tony Blair wants gulags and full collectivism under the almighty State.”

    If you don’t want to help Satan then don’t become a Satanist.

    “But I’m a milk-and-water Satanist” doesn’t cut it either.

  9. @SMFS: Easy enough to correct, many of his books are available to read on his fantastic 1990s vintage website. I recommend his book on Sikorski’s death. Very moderate. Covers more than any other source I’ve read on the matter.

    I welcome the hysteria. I am not, personally, a fully committed bonehead, but the more that these communist scum force people with vaguely patriotic sentiments as far to the right as possible, the further the general political average will shift towards some sort of common-sense Powellism.

  10. @Ecks
    Sorry old chap, but that’s the exact same error that the Hope not Hate boys are making – tarring everyone with the same brush.
    The centre-left aren’t helping Satan – if anything, it’s the other way around. The nutty Corbynistas are hindering the centre-left because they’re never getting into power with their loonies in the ascendant as at present (which is a good thing, by the way).

  11. The Guardian doesn’t mind liberally dishing out labels of racist and white nationalist. But when I suggested an article was racist because it talked negatively of white people, my account was immediately closed.

  12. Hope not Hate (Yeah right) are funded by George Soros.

    Their goal is unlimited immigration and rampant communism leading to ethnic genocide.

    Yup.Not a lot of hate there. .

  13. SMFS

    I was directed to David Irving as a source text while studying at Oxbridge – I am also reminded of a quote from the late great Peter Simple.

    ‘reflecting on the trial of David Irving, I find myself admiring (and I do not yet think it is illegal to say this) his prodigious audacity. He must have known he could not win.’

    That was in 2000- fast forward 17 years and you can be damn sure that Hope Not Hate want to make fairly sure that to even think of admiring David Irving is criminalised. Everyone on the Hope not Hate mailing list ought to be a prime candidate for a socialist tax and also ought to be forced to take in refugees (especially those whose origins and criminal backgrounds are unknown) if they have spare rooms in their house. They are a really vicious collection of misanthropes….

  14. Geoff Taylor–There is no centre left. Anymore than water running downhill is a “stable” phenomena. This is Reedy and his “mixed economy” malarkey again. Comrade Lenin himself said that socialism is the road to communism. Sure you can be a wank-weak middle class CM prick but that isn’t going to last any more than Venezuela is going to stabilize with one foot in Hell and one foot out. Once you start with socialism it is a down-bound train Brother. The less you start with the longer the journey may take–thus creating the illusion of a stable –but it is an illusion. The train will pick up speed as the gradient continues.

    Hatred and envious, spiteful evil and ruin are the very essence of socialism. Just because prosperous middle-class types are mouthing low-key evil rather than spouting enough bilious fire to burn their gobs like HNH doesn’t alter the ultimate destination of the nasty little journey that is leftism.

  15. I think it’s sad that this Jim Dawson has to set up the websites in Hungary. He’s living in Britain and commenting about the US, both countries ostensibly democracies where speech is free, and he has to set up the websites in Hungary? That smells of the cold war era where Radio Free Europe was broadcasting to the oppressed people of Eastern Europe, including Hungary.

    Times have changed.

  16. “And Parkinsons is a possibility although there’s vanishingly little proof.” There could only be proof if she subjected herself to a medical examination and published the results. Fat chance.

    There are clues, though. Look up the blue-lensed sunglasses she wore at the 9/11 memorial service, on a day so unsunny that nobody near her was wearing shades. Look at the way she was flung like a sack of tatties into her van/ambulance that day.

    She’s crook in both the Yankee and the Aussie sense.

  17. “…far right with a fringe “white nationalist element” that opposes multiculturalism and defends “western values”.”

    That is what WWII was about, defending Western values – not persecuting minorities because of their political views, values or race.

    But persecution of minorities – fringe, because of race – White, politics – Far Right, multiculturism – nationalistic, values – Western, is popular with the CtrlLeft – it is of course called Fascism which is Left, not Right by the by.

    The folk in Hope Not Hate should get a mirror.

  18. There’s something of a difference between calling for Jews to be reintroduced to gas ovens and wondering whether the vibrancy offered in Rotherham to the young girls in council care is a good idea.

    But apparently all are the same now.

    Where was it that the Nazis ordered all the Jews to wear the star of David, to which the rest of the population all joined in, entirely defeating the intent.

    Isn’t this the same “in reverse”. Except that it’s not the people doing this, the “Nazis” are happily defeating themselves.

    If the cretins label alt-right as all those with a fringe “white nationalist element” that opposes multiculturalism and defends “western values”, then fine. Because, apart from a few awfully clever Oxford PPE types, that covers a large chunk of most normal, decent people (to the right of Jezza) that I know.

    Iriots!

  19. “In its annual audit of the far right, Hope not Hate, the UK’s largest anti-racism and anti-extremism movement…”

    Where’s their annual audit of the far left? They present themselves as being anti-racism and anti-extremism, so they should attack racism and extremism, not rightism.

  20. “Where was it that the Nazis ordered all the Jews to wear the star of David, to which the rest of the population all joined in, entirely defeating the intent.”

    Denmark, where the King lead the protests. Where the entire fishing community ferried the Jewish population to neutral Sweden out of the back door while the Nazis were coming in the front door. Where the police threatened to prosecute the SS for breaking and entering. Where only one Danish Jew ended up being handed over.

  21. Dowson’s websites include Patriot News Agency – whose postings have been viewed and shared tens of thousands of times in the US – and whose articles on Friday include a critique of a new Netflix series which it accused of stoking anti-white racism.

    The name of the Netflix series in question is “Dear White People” and while I won’t watch it, it would not shock me at all if it did indeed stoke anti-white racism.

  22. Actually, if you know anyone with Parkinson’s, they’ll probably be happy to point out that Hillary Clinton exhibits at least two of the classic symptoms of the disease. I know several folks with Parkinson’s, and for them there is no question was to whether Clinton has it or not.

    In fact, my neighbor told me his specialists were the ones who pointed it out to him… And that one of those specialists was even using video of Clinton as part of his educational seminars for those just diagnosed.

  23. The name of the Netflix series in question is “Dear White People” and while I won’t watch it, it would not shock me at all if it did indeed stoke anti-white racism.

    Ya think? Since when do black ‘Mericans hustle a buck off racial healing?

    I’ve seen about 20 minutes of one episode. It’s about “escalating racial tensions at a prestigious ivy league university” from the perspective of four black underclassmen.

    I’m white and have a degree from a land-grant university in Ohio that’s part of the Mid-American Conference. The fact that some of my denser classmates liked to pretend that Miami University was the “Yale of the mid-west” was always good for a laugh. So, if I’m supposed to give a fuck about the trials and tribulations of a few black kids at Harvard, Princeton or Yale, well, sorry, that ain’t gonna happen.

    My thought was this: Hey kids, you’re in the fucking Ivy League – which 99.9% of all ‘Mericans never had a chance of getting accepted to, much less attend – deal with it.

    Besides, I’ve read Tai-Nishi Coates, so I’ve been subjected to the mandatory legal minimum (for all white ‘Mericans) of whiny black folks whose net worth is greater than mine bitching about how tough it is to black in ‘Merica.

  24. Ecks:

    Insofar as I’m aware, “communism” is merely the name given by the Rooskies to their particular brand of socialism.

    I’m not sure where I read that but am fairly confident that, if I ask John Jay Ray, he’ll steer me in the right direction (so I’ll do it)..

  25. Gene Berman: As Claudius said ( “Hamlet” not “I”) “I have nothing for this answer”.

    BTW are you the Gene Berman who does tai chi videos ?

  26. Dennis the Peasant – “The fact that some of my denser classmates liked to pretend that Miami University was the “Yale of the mid-west” was always good for a laugh.”

    I don’t know. This means I know three people from Miami University. Including you and P. J. O’Rourke. I have worked with people from Yale and read a lot more. I think the credit is to Miami so far.

  27. So Much For Subtlety: “Some of Irving’s early work is actually very good.”

    There’s a fucking surprise.

  28. – ‘Insofar as I’m aware, “communism” is merely the name given by the Rooskies to their particular brand of socialism.’

    I believe it was more the case that they had attained socialism and were striving to achieve communism.

    I’m not quite sure where they thought they were lacking though since the entire population was enslaved, with everyone the property of the state.

    ‘Just a few more gulags, comrade, and we’re there!’

  29. I must agree with Mr. Ecks (at 11:52, I have no views on Tai Chi). Redistribution is self reinforcing. Once you start you need to redistribute ever increasing sums to achieve the same effect untill, as Margret put it, you run out of other people’s money.

  30. There’s something wrong with HRC. Aside the blue sunglasses on the not sunny day and so on, when she collapsed at the memorial she didn’t just collapse, she went rigid. You can see it in the whole footage (as usual CNN cut the last second or two of this clip which makes it less obvious).

    Given the huge smack on the head she had three or four years ago, which isn’t in question, I think there is something wrong with her and it wasn’t just “pneumonia” (which it wasn’t anyway as she was hugging children a couple of hours later) ; AFAIR the HRC camp claimed some diagnosis which didn’t actually exist.

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