This leaves rather a lot in play in the negotiations, doesn’t it?

The UK could walk away from the European Union in 2019 without paying a penny, the House of Lords has said, in a report bound to raise tensions with Brussels in the run-up to Brexit talks.

The British government would have no legal obligation to either pay a €60bn (£52bn) Brexit bill mooted by the European commission or honour payments into the EU budget promised by the former prime minister David Cameron, according to analysis by the House of Lords EU financial affairs sub-committee.

49 comments on “This leaves rather a lot in play in the negotiations, doesn’t it?

  1. What could they offer us that would be worth a cent? We need to walk away in anger and bitterness. We do not want a deal on “Europeans” already in the UK. Those living in the EU can take their chances.

    We need to get up and leave – and defy them to do their worst. Anything else is likely to be a sell out by our treasonous “elites”.

  2. The important part of that report is “what court would have jurisdiction?”

    ECJ? No longer a Member State. Have fun 🙂

    ECHR? The EU has no “human rights”. And try bringing a class action on behalf of the citizens of the remaining victims of the Berlaymont dictatorship. Go on. Sniggers.

    ICJ? We’ll hear it. Don’t worry yourself. But it will be Juncker and his cronies in the dock for extortion. Well, no, it won’t but it’s early enough in the morning for vague hopeful dreams.

  3. I would need to read the report. Not enough to go on there, just a bit of vague journalism designed to scare some and reinforce wishful thinking in others.

    Not long ago Tim was getting excited that we might be legally “entitled” to a few bottles of wine. Now it’s that there is no law and we’re liable for nothing.

    I hope the UK govt is able to hire some negotiators with some sense of perspective and not leave it to the rabid on either side.

    Is it normal to publish reports on a Saturday?

  4. Well done Tim! So we might not, in addition to rendering ourselves a poor weak bigoted international laughing stock, have to throw most of our annual deficit in the sea. Would anyone care to join me ina jig of joy ?

  5. Actually, a deal WITH, rather than IN, the Customs Union would be of benefit. A good deal would leave the UK able to make deals with whomever it chose arounf the world AND with the EU/EEA. It would be better than needing to declare ourselves a unilateral free trade zone. The EU would benefit as it would still have access to its financial services industry in London etc. And there is the not insignificant matter of our red line on freedom of movement of EU citizens.

    So being the 2nd largest net contributor and having no legal obligation to keep paying is a very useful negotiating tool.

    The key question is not about the UK at all; is the EU capable of negotiating a deal?

  6. NewRemainia: “Would anyone care to join me ina jig of joy ?”

    Already did that 24th June 2016.

  7. @N
    I agree: the euphoria over National Economic Suicide by Brexit or the risk of it, is an example of the Madness of Crowds.
    It is very easy to imagine the situation where Brexit was a Labour stunt (as indeed it was originally): Fleet Street would be drowned in the shit pouring out even from the Mail or Fishwives’ Favourite.

  8. I find it a struggle not to be a pessimist on this. Mainly because Tony Blair for no other reason than he wanted to be a good european gave away half the EU budget rebate. Yes Theresa’s no Tony,, but before he did such a crazy thing i wouldn’t have believed he would have done it either. So as I say i’m pessimist at the moment.

  9. Reedy–It would have been the most popular thing ZaNu had done since 1945.

    Of course –it is only newspapers/media that determine what the proles think. They have no thoughts of their own.

    And that sort of smuggery is exactly how you lost.

  10. Henry Crun

    How long can a child carry on scweaming and scweaming? The Rempanels seem to be defying the laws of mature on this one

  11. “How was the €B60 calculated?”

    Being a bit generous with ‘calculated’ there. ‘Invented’ would be better.

  12. ‘The UK could walk away from the European Union in 2019 without paying a penny.’

    As SMFS says, you could do it in 2017. And that would be much better.

  13. How long can a child carry on scweaming and scweaming? The Rempanels seem to be defying the laws of mature on this one’#

    I reasonably point out that Brexit was a vote for ethnic cleansing by partasites who believed infantile propaganda and they get their dynamic pants in a twist- some people are so touchy….

  14. Let’s hope the EU guards are French. Then they could accidentally shoots the blighters.

  15. Newmania

    Yep, you’re still scweaming.

    A head’s up for you: you lost. And the result is not going to change.

  16. @N
    In a rare moment of lucidity, Farage said he would n’t mind if Britain was poorer as long as it was ethnically purer (or rid of immigrants or whatever is the current [long word alert] euphemism.) So committing National Economic suicide or (to be fairer) the Awfully Big Adventure is the price we pay to buy off the yobbos whom previous Tory governments at the time of Enoch Powell and Mosley has dismissed with disdain.

  17. Prioritising ethnic purity over economic wellbeing security services and the debts we are leaving to our children is official ,so called-Conservative Policy You could weep … but then I remind myself we are taking advice on divorce form John Redwood and the laughter comes in painful sobs

  18. The Irish believed the economic hit of leaving the UK was a price worth paying. When pushed the SNP admit they beleive the economic hit of leaving the UK is a price worth paying. Why is the economic hit of leaving the EU not a price worth paying? If I leave my local sports club I suffer the economic hit of no longer having free-at-point-of-use use of their facilities. It is my choice to decide if that’s a price worth paying for leaving their club.

  19. Reedy and Newmania in one post? Together they are the best argument for Brexit. If people like THAT are Remainers and EUphiles then, well, I do not want to be on that side.

  20. Remainia

    Prioritising ethnic purity over..

    That’s good, because it means you still don’t really get it. The less you understand it the more likely you are to screw up any continued resistance.

    comes in painful sobs

    Now you know how many of us have felt for years, whilst our traitor class wilfully handed over more and more sovereignty to Brussels.

    btw, have they, err, ‘dispensed with your services’ yet – or are you still sucking away at the EU teat..;)

  21. Both sides are full of shit. Brexit will likely be remarkable for how little difference it makes to anything, either side of the channel. Anyone thinking they’ll get any sovereignty back is deluded – it’ll still be a distant and hard-to-fire class of career-political scum running your life.

  22. If the UK is responsible for its share of the debts of the EU, surely it is also entitled to its share of the assets of the EU as well?

    Time to tally up all those EU property and other assets. I’m sure they are well documented in the accou….

    Oh.

  23. BiG

    Indeed, and you may well be completely right, but – in a democracy – that would be down to the electorate. One of the “virtues” of the EU was to continue to make that link ever more tenuous (as in non existent).

    Of course, if one doesn’t believe in democracy, demos, or in the idea of nation with regard to identity, then sure, it becomes even more academic.

  24. What happens to the UK citizens living and working in the EU? Kicked out as illegal immigrants?

    Its fine for part of our government to say there is nothing to pay. Perhaps the other over 2 dozen governments will also have something to say on that?

  25. You sold out long ago Biggie and are a cuck from a land of majority cucks. Not kissing RoP arse is about the best you can hope for as a future for you and any offspring you may have.

    And given the German cuck level you have zero chance of that.

    As for the EU kicking ours out–we kick out theirs who are on benefits/tax credits. Those paying their way can stay. No sense in cutting off our nose. A quarter of a million Frenchmen who like more economic freedom over here are enriching us as well as themselves. They are over here to escape both the scum of the French state and the EU.

    Both Reed and NewRemainia support the destruction of nations in favour of CM tyranny and the destruction of white Western civilisation tho’ they are doubtless both white themselves. They are both scum. Reed openly supports the Death-Cult . Of the two the BluLabour slime that is NewRemainia is the worse. A well-off, middle class, cultural Marxist, London Bubble, I’m-Alright-Jack-So-The–Rest-Of-You-Can-Slurp-Shit-And-Die traitor. A civil war would be a good thing if it brought down his kind.

    Brexit is going through regardless of scum. Get used to it.

  26. @Snag,

    So the UK government has its assets on its balance sheet does it?

    @PF, the point has been made repeatedly so that anyone beyond retardation or ideological hatred can get it: all the EU decision-making bodies are at least as democratic as those in the UK (Lords, anyone?). The EU parliament is directly elected, the council consists of elected ministers of the national governments, and the commission, the least democratic bit, is composed of people appointed by the national governments. In what way is that not under your control as a voter? It’s under as much control, if not more, than your MP in a safe seat.

  27. The only sensible response to the should brigade is a short sharp “shut up”. If that is not satisfying enough then a “fuck off” would suffice. Anything more is only going to encourage them.

  28. @Fecks,

    I’m in the fortunate position of not having to give a shit about Brexit any more.

  29. I’m in the fortunate position of not having to give a shit about Brexit any more.

    It shows.

    Not.

  30. “It’ll still be a distant and hard-to-fire class of career-political scum running your life.”

    So let me see – the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the UK as of 22 June 2016 are currently unemployed and a backbench MP respectively, purely as the result of a vote of the UK electorate. Tell me, can this happen in Germany?

    And do you think UK politicians will be more or less reflective of UK electoral opinion now they can’t blame Brussels for whatever new laws they pass? There’ll be no more ‘You can’t do this any more, EU directive innit’, there’ll only be ‘We want you to stop doing this because we say so’, which can easily be countered by ‘Well we’re not voting for you or your party then, bye bye!’.

    Fear of electoral death is a powerful tool of control for the People over their political class, the peoples of Europe should try it some time.

  31. Biggie–The Future–or lack of one–of your chosen homeland and the fate of your children’s children (esp the female ones) should concern you a lot more than Brexit.

  32. the point has been made repeatedly so that anyone beyond retardation or ideological hatred can get it: all the EU decision-making bodies are at least as democratic as those in the UK (Lords, anyone?)

    That maybe so in theory, but what about in practice? I voted Leave for one simple reason: the EU has a pre-set goal, and as a result bad decisions made are also pretty well irrevocable. Forget MEP’s; they may be wonderfully well provided for, but they’re not important. An organisation that insists on loyalty in the way the EU does is a cult. Allowing criticism from within would make it a lot more likable.

    Auberon Waugh’s central argument in favour, that we should replace our preening, pompous politicians with “the Belgian ticket inspectors”, remains the most beguiling argument I’ve heard. Sadly, the EU has plenty of preening, pompous politicians of its own.

  33. (Lords, anyone?)

    The Lords, actually, seems rather a brilliant idea to me.

    Damage has been done by our new class of Career Politician, but that’s temporary.

  34. BiG

    all the EU decision-making bodies are at least as democratic as those in the UK (Lords, anyone?).

    Is that a confession, as the Lords actually has no ultimate power.

    The EU parliament is directly elected

    The EU Parliament does not represent a demos.

    the council consists of elected ministers of the national governments [ie appointed], and the commission, the least democratic bit, is composed of people appointed by the national governments.

    Every UK minister of state (comprising the Government), in our first past the post system – in the first instance – is directly elected (and must be regularly re-elected) by no more than circa 80,000 immediately local electors. Didn’t you know that?

    In what way is that not under your control as a voter?

    See your first comment above.

    your MP in a safe seat.

    Hey, finally a half valid point. Yes, the safe seat can be a weakness. In the very safest of seats, the MP has to be a total shit to be either not re-elected, or perhaps as likely de-selected. No system is perfect (least worst system and all that). And the electorate aren’t perfect either, which is why the left keep trying to import new ones.

    But no rational person can pretend that that is “the same or less control” than a system where – those same MPs then (broadly) appoint the next levels up (and across 28 countries, ie no sense of demos whatsoever), and it those appointed levels which then have direct power over all (ie another level removed, and outside of that demos).

    In our democracy, the threat to a Prime Minister, or any other person in Government, is that they “can” be periodically and “directly” removed by a relatively small chunk of their local electorate. And because that does happen, the threat is always real.

    We need more direct accountability, not less.

    the point has been made repeatedly so that anyone beyond retardation or ideological hatred can get it

    Hmmm, no comment.

  35. Jim, it seems you believe in alternative facts. Because David Cameron took the Stewardship of the Manor of Northstead, while Osborne no longer has a cabinet position because he was not wanted by May. Neither have ever been fired by the electorate.

    Can that happen in Germany? Yes it can. An MP (yes, even the Chancellor) can resign from the house, and an MP can be fired from a cabinet position but remain in the house. The latter happens quite frequently.

    Jack C: “Allowing criticism from within would make it a lot more likable.”

    Totally agree – this might be the one good thing to emerge from the current situation.

  36. @BiG:OK when was the last time a standing PM in Germany had to resign because his main policy had been thrown out by the electorate? Also ask Michael Portillo and Ed Balls how their political careers are doing right now. Any politician in the UK can be ejected from power by as few as 40k people. That can’t happen in Germany, all the big wigs get the top slots on the PR list and are utterly immovable from politics unless they decide to go themselves.

    I notice you didn’t answer my other point – are UK politicians going to give more consideration to domestic electoral approval of their actions post Brexit, or less?

  37. BiG,
    I did also feel that success for Leave, whatever the long-term impact on the UK, would provide a much needed kick for the EU as a whole. It may still do so, but little evidence so far.

    Success for Remain would have nailed the blinkers in place for a generation.

  38. At some point, the Corbynistas are going to understand what their Leader already knows: without Brexit, Corbynism is not possible.

  39. @Jim, Helmut Schmidt is the closest to that scenario. Seeing as Cameron is the first PM ever in British history to resign “because his policy was thrown out by the electorate” it’s not exactly a common event, is it?

    “are UK politicians going to give more consideration to domestic electoral approval of their actions post Brexit, or less?”

    I suspect it will make very little difference. They will no longer be able to blame everything unpalatable on Brussels, irrespective of whether Brussels had anything to do with it. Apart from that, the total immovability from politics of most Westminster scum (for different mechanical reasons than the German ones) will remain – or do I need to remind you of the other referendum that the Cameron government held and had legislation struck down by?

  40. I’ve never seen “EU quisling” used around here. It’s really not good enough.

    Every UK minister of state (comprising the Government), in our first past the post system – in the first instance – is directly elected (and must be regularly re-elected) by no more than circa 80,000 immediately local electors.

    We don’t elect candidates to ministerial offices, we elect them to seats in the House of Commons.

    Some ministers are Lords. At July 2016, 25 out of the total 118 (21%) ministers in government were in the House of Lords, including 1 Cabinet Minister. About a fifth of the ministers in each government since 1979 have been Lords, including 1 to 3 Cabinet Ministers.

    Incidentally, there is no constitutional requirement for a minister to be a member of either House of Parliament.

  41. We don’t elect candidates to ministerial offices, we elect them to seats in the House of Commons.

    Err, yes, that’s what “in the first instance” meant. Ie, they beome an MP first.

    Though:

    Some ministers are Lords / not Lords etc

    Sure, fair point. But it doesn’t take away from the gist of the point being made.

    And this is not just about MPs (potentially at threat). It’s the Government / majority party as a whole that risks losing that majority (ie power) in the elected Commons; same principle. But you know that already.

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