Surprise!

One of Britain’s most senior female judges warned drunken women that they will be a target for rapists as she retired from the bench today.
Lindsey Kushner QC said all women were entitled to ‘drink themselves into the ground’ but she warned their ‘disinhibited behaviour’ put them in danger of being raped by men who ‘gravitate’ to drunken females.

There really are vile monsters out there and yes, they will gravitate towards those less likely to resist.

That there will be those who argue about this shows quite how far wrong we’ve gone.

49 comments on “Surprise!

  1. “‘How I see it is burglars are out there and nobody says burglars are OK but we do say ‘please don’t leave your back door open at night, take steps to protect yourselves’.”

    I’ve been pointing out the police’s almost schizophrenic attitude to crime for years!

  2. But equality! If men can drink themselves insensible and not get raped, it is just wrong women can’t as well.

    Reality – the Left has been struggling against it since 1968

  3. That Canadian judge’s behaviour does not seem all that outrageous except for this:

    The judge also made derisory comments about the complainant, who he repeatedly referred to as ‘the accused’ during the trial – even after being corrected by the Crown.

    He really shouldn’t have done that.

    Still, his colleagues did not have a big problem. It is just a handful of academics. Canada would be better served by firing them.

  4. “Reality – the Left has been struggling against it since 1968”

    Yes, indeed. But they implicitly assume that a change in the dominant ideology will result in a new reality. Or some such Marxoid wibble.

  5. “He really shouldn’t have done that.”

    You are right: he shouldn’t. However, his general point about her keeping her knees together was not unreasonable. Male penetration of a woman is not so easy, unless she’s had children. So, unless she has a knife at her throat, a woman can deny a minimally violent rapist entry. Alternatively, she can deter her attacker by emptying her bowels – not many rapists are coprophiles.

  6. Note that she issued the warning AS she retired from the bench. Presumably earlier, she didn’t consider the issue important enough to hazard her career. And has her pension rights buttoned up securely.

  7. “‘How I see it is burglars are out there and nobody says burglars are OK but we do say ‘please don’t leave your back door open at night, take steps to protect yourselves’.”

    How they see it is that SJW thugs who will smash you in the face with a baseball bat if you say politically incorrect things are out there, and nobody says people hitting other people with baseball bats is OK, but we do say ‘please don’t say politically incorrect things that might cause offence to others, take steps to protect yourself’.

    Likewise with cartoons about Mohammad. I think there was a certain attitude of ‘they were asking for it’ in the limited sympathy the Danish cartoonists got from the left.

  8. “Note that she issued the warning AS she retired from the bench. Presumably earlier, she didn’t consider the issue important enough to hazard her career. And has her pension rights buttoned up securely.”

    Yes, she’s not got the balls (ha ha) to make such a statement when it would have cost her dear, so colour me not that impressed at it being made now.

  9. There really are vile monsters out there and yes, they will gravitate towards those less likely to resist.

    That there will be those who argue about this shows quite how far wrong we’ve gone.

    There is a context: a lot of victim blaming over many decades. So while it is literally true that you can reduce risk by changing your behaviour, the context increases the risk of people misconstruing your statements about that

    It is also true that you can reduce the risk of being misconstrued.

  10. What UKL said. It’s not hard, there are lots of people who blame victims for rape – far more than for other crimes. So you have to be very careful about how you phrase comments on the subject. Especially when you’re a middle-aged bloke with a lived-in face who is, being charitable, about as far as it’s possible to get from being a potential rape victim.

  11. Like Theo here:

    However, his general point about her keeping her knees together was not unreasonable. Male penetration of a woman is not so easy, unless she’s had children. So, unless she has a knife at her throat, a woman can deny a minimally violent rapist entry. Alternatively, she can deter her attacker by emptying her bowels – not many rapists are coprophiles.

    I’m sure Theo is a lovely person in real life but above he comes across as a victim-blaming edgelord fuckwit.

  12. Wow, that’s charitable. Could the bit you quoted sound any more like it comes from extensive experience?

  13. No. I’d defend both the judge & Theo on this. You ever tried screw a woman over a basin in the bathroom? From either direction(Sometimes I wonder some of the commenters have achieved the act anywhere. In mixed company) It’s not easy at the best of times. All the bits are in the wrong places to line up. The slightest movement on her part & he’ll miss the putt. So, – absent a credible threat of violence, of which there’s no claim – to say the least she wasn’t trying to reject his advances very strenuously.

  14. “No. I’d defend both the judge & Theo on this. You ever tried screw a woman over a basin in the bathroom?”

    Where the hell did you get that lot from?! Bathroom?!

    From the linked article:

    The judge’s comments came at the end of a case which heard how factory worker Ricardo Rodrigues-Gomes, 19, and a work colleague took in turns to have sex with the 18-year old victim on a canal bank.

    The girl, who had been drinking lager and vodka as well as inhaling the party drug amyl nitrite, could be heard saying: ‘No, stop. I don’t want to do it. It’s not fair,’ in footage taken by a passerby.

  15. BiS>

    “So, – absent a credible threat of violence, of which there’s no claim – to say the least she wasn’t trying to reject his advances very strenuously.”

    Unlike Theo, you don’t sound like you’re speaking from long experience of trying to rape people, so I’ll bother explaining to you: there are many ways rape can happen, including coercion. People do not necessarily resist as you imagine they should, for all kinds of reasons. Your stereotypes about what a rape looks like have never been correct, and these days are widely acknowledged to be totally wrong.

    ‘She’ doesn’t have to reject ‘his’ advances at all, physically, let alone ‘very strenuously’. The victim merely has to say ‘no’ (or otherwise indicate that the advances are unwanted).

  16. So this is an example of a comment that might be interpreted as victim blaming:

    to say the least she wasn’t trying to reject his advances very strenuously.

    And that’s part of the context around why people who state well-intentioned and literally true advice are often misconstrued as victim blaming.

  17. “there are lots of people who blame victims for rape – far more than for other crimes”

    That would be the police who send out tweets telling people that their actions and choices can increase their chances of being raped then.

    Oh wait that doesn’t happen, but it does happen for other types of crimes…………..

  18. The woman was pissed out of her head and snorting poppers. Passed out in a nightclub and ejected at 5 am. Likely still the worse for wear. Still doesn’t go home but to a burger bar where she makes the acquaintance of Gomes ( Portuguese he is–HAHA fucking HA–via Somewhere Else obviously. Another one of our free-moving European friends). It doesn’t say how matters moved from burger bar to river bank. It does suggest that a rapist who doesn’t take to his heels once noticed–or at least start walking briskly– is a low IQ moron. If he had pulled up his hoodie/ducked his head and made even moderate progress away from the scene of his crime he would have been long gone by the time coppers arrived instead of being arrested hanging about.

    Did the girl deserve what happened? Absolutely not.

    Would she have been raped without her own stupid lifestyle and actions? Very likely not.

    She could have kept a clear head. Millions don’t but frankly everybody should if there is danger. And there is always danger. Predators look for those in a state and vulnerable. She put herself right in the frame. She could have stayed with her friends and gone home safely. She could have avoided passing out in a public place. She could have got a taxi at 5 am and asked if she could wait with the bouncer til it arrived. She could have avoided the burger bar. If she had to go (why?) she could have had nothing to do with the creep once there. Told someone he was bothering her if he was . Sat on the floor and started screaming if they tried to drag her out. Which would discourage all but the worst scum. Instead there is no claim she was dragged but likely went voluntarily because she was still half-pissed.

    Had she acted at all sensibly she would have gone home safe and reasonably well.

    If you get pissed and step off a cliff you don’t DESERVE that –unless you are a leftist–but you have brought danger that could have been avoided down on your own head. You will be given no pass by reality for pious hopes that nasty things like cliffs and gravity should not exist. You will still splatter on impact.

  19. Because there isn’t a similar context for burglary. No-one says to victims of bag-snatching, “you should emptied your bowels on your bag.”

  20. “If you get pissed and step off a cliff you don’t DESERVE that –unless you are a leftist–but you have brought danger that could have been avoided down on your own head. You will be given no pass by reality for pious hopes that nasty things like cliffs and gravity should not exist. You will still splatter on impact.”

    If you get pissed and insult the prophet Mohammad, then you don’t deserve to die at the hand of Islamist death squads; but you don’t get a pass to reality, everyone knows that Islamist death squads will hunt down the blasphemers and stab them, and pious hopes that we live in a country where free speech prevails won’t save you.

    The question is, do you keep your mouth shut about Islam, or do you try to make the case that Islamist death squads wandering around society thinking they have the right to kill anyone who offends their religion is unacceptable, and a civilised society really ought to do something to “re-educate” them, instead of trying to re-educate people to keep their mouths shut and not give offence?

    Yes, if you’re going to insult Islam, knowing what they’re like, it makes sense to take precautions. The more prominent speakers against Islam have to live the rest of their lives with armed guards protecting them. But should one of those precautions be to surrender your right to free speech, or your liberty to get drunk, or your freedom to live your life without constantly having to look over your shoulder for evil nutters?

  21. To be more reasonable – if you are going out to get shit-faced and have fun (or the other way around), stay with your mates.

    Blokes have much less chance of being robbed, lasses have much less chance of being robbed or raped.

  22. “Because there isn’t a similar context for burglary. No-one says to victims of bag-snatching, “you should emptied your bowels on your bag.””

    Of course there’s a similar context to burglary. If you go wandering around the scummier ends of town waving your wallet about full of £20s, don’t be surprised when some PoS robs you. Especially if you’re drunk at the same time. If you leave all your doors and windows open, chances of having your stuff nicked are considerably higher.

    And the same applies to a drunk woman wondering around alone in the scummier ends of town at 3am, it increases her chances of being raped exponentially.

    Yet we are repeatedly warned about the former, but the later is verboten for some reason.

    Why is it that the concepts of responsibility and merit are (probably purposely) conflated by those who wish to attack those who say that certain actions WILL increase the chances of being raped? No-one merits being raped, yet some of the responsibility for it happening does lie with the victim, in the way that a degree of responsibility lies with us for all our actions and the outcomes thereof.

    As Ecks rightly points out, reality is a bitch, and actions have consequences. If you get rat arsed and climb a tall wall and fall off resulting in paralysis below the neck, it is you who is responsibility pretty much 100%. Did you deserve that outcome? Of course not, unless you are a scumbag anyway, then perhaps you did, but it would be incidental.

    So just stop equating responsibility and merit. They are NOT the same thing.

  23. NiV–Islamic death squads are a danger sure.

    But which is more dangerous. To slag them as they deserve and live a life on my own ground where I have my wits about me and defensive measures to hand** or to slag them while rolling about Molenbeek pissed out of my head shouting abuse.

    All women should be aware that sex crime is a possibility. It can be countered and defeated and its instigators made sorry they were born by wise actions.

    People who live stupid and destructive lifestyles make bad outcomes more likely and that is it. The accumulated actions of this women were a textbook example of dumb. No, the creep shouldn’t have touched her. But had she been sensible he would never have known she existed let alone been able to violate her.

    If you are defending peoples right to be stupid– fine. But you can’t then complain with much justification when the consequences of being stupid hove into view.

    **Defensive measures only because of the treason of Western poli-pork: attack and destroy is the way to deal with aggressors.

  24. Rape is rather more violating than theft.

    It’s not clear to me what you guys are complaining about here other than “It’s annoying when I’m called out for saying women are partly responsible for being raped and they should have held their legs together and shit themselves, because I’m only trying to help.”

  25. UKLib–Advice to shit herself or whatever is not a lot of help.

    Advice to not act like a fucking idiot is.

    Dangers exist. The weaker creatures of nature can act sensibly around the water-hole or they can shoot their gobs off about how wrong it is that predators exist. And how enough re-education can turn those lions into lambs. Well no. That sort of nonsense is the sound and fury of idiots. Some human creatures are born with black hearts and red hands. And that is that. You can ignore that stupidly or deal with it sensibly. Esp at a time when we are importing extra scum–even as the puke in the case at hand was imported. Twice over possibly.

    The victim in question chose not to be aware in advance and deaden what sense she had during. That doesn’t mean she deserved it but had she retained and used even a modest amount of sense a very unpleasant experience would not have happened to her.

  26. Here’s a thought experiment – a rich white boy walks into a heavily disadvantaged area like Moss Side and starts waving his wad around, flashing his Rolex. He gets mugged. Would the same people criticising the judge say it was the fault of the rich kid for behaving stupidly?

  27. Would the same people criticising the judge say it was the fault of the rich kid for behaving stupidly?

    I expect some of them would say it is the fault of the rich kid. They shouldn’t.

    As has been observed around here, there is no shortage of idiots.

  28. “to be clear, you sound like idiots.”

    Only to you, and reality-denying PC prigs like you.

    The advice to empty your bowels was the sisterhood’s own, as my wife can confirm – and she passed the advice on to our daughter.

    Unless a woman is immobilised by the threat of major violence or drugged/drunk, forced penetration of her dry vagina will result in serious injuries to foreskin and/or phrenum, or simply be impossible.

    As for “victim-blaming”, this is largely a leftist trope. Victims have status on the left, and ‘only’ sympathy on the right. Jim nails the matter of responsibility – or contributory negligence – above.

    Dave

    “Unlike Theo, you don’t sound like you’re speaking from long experience of trying to rape people”

    Rape is a vile crime. Unfortunately, the feminazis have devalued the term by stretching it to cover any vaguely non-consensual form of penetration.

  29. Again–it isn’t the fault of the rich kid. But he marks himself as foolish by putting himself in harms way.

    Despite the correct statement that people should NOT be thieves and rapists and worse,the fact–the un-fucking-changeable fact– is that some of them ARE and some ALWAYS will be.

    You can talk a lot of whining leftist shite about how awful it is that some people will acknowledge that reality is what it IS ( and how that makes them “victim blamers”) or you can accept what IS. And thus hopefully avoid at least some of realities numerous difficulties.

    We can see from his whinge which path UK Lib has chosen. And yet I wonder if he practices what he preaches and strolls around dangerous areas with his pockets full of cash while pissed out of his gourd. I invite him to try the experiment and let us know how it works out.

  30. What’s all this about the back door? I thought it was the front door she was complaining about …

  31. “I expect some of them would say it is the fault of the rich kid. They shouldn’t. As has been observed around here, there is no shortage of idiots.”

    So you agree the police are idiots then? Because they blame the victims of robbery crimes all the time for their actions, even down to threatening not to take any action against the criminals. JuliaM has plenty of examples of official police advice to exactly that effect.

    Also would a judge who criticised a victim of a mugging for flashing his wealth in a poor area risk his career and pension? No of course he wouldn’t. No-one would hardly bat an eyelid at such a comment, because (crucially) EVERYONE AGREES WITH IT. People do stupid things and put themselves at increased risk of crime. This goes for all crimes. Leaving your laptop in your car with the windows down = increased risk of getting it nicked. Woman staying with her violent partner after repeated attacks = increased risk of being murdered. Wandering around alone pissed up at 3am = increased risk of being mugged, or raped if you are female.

    Or are you saying that rape is (unique among human activity) an event that happens entirely at random, and no actions whatsoever on the part of the victim can ever have increased their likelihood of being raped? That a woman is as likely to be raped when out on the town with half a dozen friends drinking diet cokes as one who is pissed out of her head wandering around scummy areas on her own?

  32. There’s another Canadian case recently that’s going to cause issues, drunk insensible woman found partially clothed in taxi, judge said that just because she couldn’t give consent at the time police came across her doesn’t mean she hadn’t been able to give consent earlier and as she couldn’t remember that didn’t mean she hadn’t

  33. If I drink at work I’m sent home to prevent me from hurting myself on machinery.

    That’s victim blaming.

  34. I’m so old that I can remember when rape was supposed to be a forcible action instead of one where the woman can’t remember a few months later that she said “Yes.”

  35. @UKL:
    >I expect some of them would say it is the fault of the rich kid. They shouldn’t.

    They should- but not because he was doing things that were unwise to do in those particular blighted areas. If there are areas where it is not safe for a citizen to walk around, a mob should be formed to burn those areas out.

    As for T’s advice around how she could have at least tried to keep her legs together- well, that might have been more difficult after doing amyls. Does anyone actually take them for non-rooting related purposes? There is a reason that it was suspected that they had something to do with the GRIDS issues that hit homosexuals back in the 80s- you take them when you’re DTF. Of course, not necessarily DTF with the specific men in question in this case, at least on a riverbank, at least on this particular night, at least by the morning after.

  36. ukliberty – “There is a context: a lot of victim blaming over many decades.”

    But rape is not like other laws. Most of us have an interest in consensual sex. Very few of us have an interest in consensual mobile phone theft. So the problem is to work out what the victim was doing and what was in everyone’s mind at the time. As with any other crime. Except with rape those distinctions are not so clear. What you call victim blaming is just trying to find the truth.

    Dave – “So you have to be very careful about how you phrase comments on the subject.”

    Or in other words, shut up or storm troopers like Dave will come and beat you into submission. You must love Big Brother. Or at least keep silent out of fear.

    ukliberty – “I’m sure Theo is a lovely person in real life but above he comes across as a victim-blaming edgelord fuckwit.”

    And yet the defendant had a plausible alternative explanation – she was a disturbed young woman who consented to the sex but then got angry when he had sex with another girl that night. Notice that he was acquitted twice. That suggests that perhaps Theo is on to something even if he does sound a little callous.

    And it is better to sound callous than to sound like a politically correct bully who is happy to railroad an innocent young man to make a political point. As you do.

  37. Theophrastus – “Unless a woman is immobilised by the threat of major violence or drugged/drunk, forced penetration of her dry vagina will result in serious injuries to foreskin and/or phrenum, or simply be impossible.”

    Actually I am not entirely sure that is true Theo. I am pretty sure the medical evidence will not support this. Rapists do not injure their penises all that often – blood will lubricate if nothing else. Besides, a large part of this is involuntary.

    Didn’t a US Congresscritter fail to win election for saying this?

  38. ukliberty – “It’s not clear to me what you guys are complaining about here other than “It’s annoying when I’m called out for saying women are partly responsible for being raped and they should have held their legs together and shit themselves, because I’m only trying to help.””

    I don’t see anyone saying all rape victims are responsible for being raped. I see people who have said in this case there may be more to the story than meets the eye. As *two* *juries* have also found.

    Perhaps what people are annoyed about is your attempt to bully anyone who contradicts your preferred political narrative into silence by threats and intimidation? Perhaps other people do not like would-be little Red Guards trying to silence debate?

    ukliberty – “to be clear, you sound like idiots.”

    And you continue to sound like you want to railroad an innocent man to push your preferred politics.

    ukliberty – “If you don’t want people to complain about what you say maybe you should pipe down.”

    Silence, Capitalist Running Dog! The Masses are speaking!

  39. Theo,

    The advice to empty your bowels was the sisterhood’s own, as my wife can confirm – and she passed the advice on to our daughter.

    I really don’t give a flying fuck who said it. Although I imagine that when your wife provided her well-intentioned advice she probably did it more empathetically than people who sound like they are on the spectrum (to be charitable).

  40. SMFS,

    ukliberty – “If you don’t want people to complain about what you say maybe you should pipe down.”

    Silence, Capitalist Running Dog! The Masses are speaking!

    Wooosh.

  41. SMFS

    “Actually I am not entirely sure that is true Theo.”

    This truth is largely self evident – that the dry vagina of a woman who is not immobilised by fear or a drug is extremely difficult to penetrate.

    “I am pretty sure the medical evidence will not support this. .”

    Well, perhaps your aim is better than mine, or I’m more enthusiastic than you are, but I have bruised and even torn my membrum virile on several occasions during consensual conjugal congress.

    “Rapists do not injure their penises all that often – blood will lubricate if nothing else.”

    It depends what you mean by “rapists”. Much that passes for rape these days is semi-consensual sex, so it’s not surprising that penile injury is not that common. Also, violent rapists are unlikely to visit A&E with a ripped foreskin in case it incriminates them.

    “Besides, a large part of this is involuntary.”

    Not sure quite what you mean here. But there is some evidence that women do automatically lubricate when threatened with violent or non-consensual penetration. – Perhaps it is an evolutionary response to prevent undue damage to reproductive organs? Of course, to the feminazis, this is appalling, as it suggests that women are aroused by violent rape. From this, they fear it might be concluded that women instinctually want to be raped; but an involuntary, evolutionary response is surely not consent.

    “Didn’t a US Congresscritter fail to win election for saying this?”

    If you note my various qualifications, you’ll see my position is altogether more nuanced than his, though ukl will doubtless have another hissy fit and Dave may well accuse me of being jewish or something.

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