Timmy elsewhere

Fortunately, we have a cure for all of this: education and experience. As Trump himself has just shown. And, in fact, as Twain pointed out in a story of his involving a young man who is permanently arguing with his parents, so leaves home at 18 and doesn’t see Pops again until he is 25. At which point, he is amazed at how much his father has learned in only seven years.

Or as we might put it, the reason that people become less utopian and more liberally conservative as they age, is education and experience.

Leaving only the final question: when is Owen Jones going to start?

31 comments on “Timmy elsewhere

  1. Standard Trump. Has an idea. As long as it looks like working he sticks with it. As soon as it looks like not working he dumps it.
    We could wish for someone who gets everything right from the start, but failing that someone who actually learns on the job is probably the best we can hope for.

  2. Contrary to what Tim seems to suggest, the facts haven’t recently changed. There’s just been some slight erosion of Trump’s near-total ignorance.

  3. @SJW.
    – Congress just rejected the Healthcare bill
    – He just met most of the global major political leaders
    – Syria dropped chemical bombs on its own citizens
    – etc etc etc.
    There are hundreds of examples of what has changed in the last 3 months. To suggest nothing has changed is just ludicrous.

  4. “Other such beliefs include the idea that immigrants come over here to steal our jobs. Well, no but yes but – there is no fixed number of jobs and immigrants bring not just their labour but also their desires and demands for goods and services, which we can all get jobs supplying. The net effect is somewhere between nothing and not very much.”

    Well yes but no but…. I reckon you’re talking about some sort of idealised immigrant, there, Tim. What the UK’s had rather a lot of is immigration from rather closed cultures. Sure, they compete for jobs. Much of it at the low end of the labour market. But the upside’s less than obvious. Sure they buy TVs & cars etc. But much of that’s imported, anyway. How much is bought from the domestic economy?
    I’ve had some experience of working for London’s Hassidic Jews. I got the jobs because they’re under the illusion I’m Jewish ( I grew up in a very Jewish part of London – Jewish cultures second nature to me) Otherwise, forget it. A lot of them have businesses but don’t go there looking for a job. They won’t employ you. Or if they do it’ll be at the very lowest level with zero prospects of propmotion. When I took on the work, they had a preferred list of suppliers. All Jewish. When they shop, it’s at a Jewish shop. Guess what religion their lawyers & accountants are?
    Effectively, they’re almost totally cut off from the supply side of the London economy. Although they have absolutely no hesitation in supplying to it. Especially if you’re after a diamond for an engagement ring or wish to rent from their extensive property portfolio. Just don’t expect emergency repairs to get done on a Saturday.
    And the UK’s busily importing more people like this, isn’t it? Whole city districts are slowly turning Asian. Largely self contained communities.
    Where’s the upside to this for Brits?

  5. In other news the grauniad has an article about the massive air bomb dropped on Afghan by the USAF. It has *zero* shares and comments are not allowed (of course).

    They are hilarious.

  6. In answer to the question, young Owen Jones has plenty of education but precious little experience.

    Let him run a corner shop for three months: deal with regulations, taxes, and local yobs nicking the booze; then see how he feels about the world. But as long as he remains in the Guardian’s warm bosom, he’s unlikely to see reason.

  7. That Graun article originally had a beautiful graphic comparing MOAB (11 tons TNT) to Little Boy (15 tons TNT). Because being a left wing twat with an arts degree means never having to learn what a kiloton is.

    Sadly, they’ve removed it now 🙁

  8. Firefoxx, JonnyA;

    Not absolutely convinced, without having sat on the targeting board, that MOAB was absolutely the right choice of munition for ‘effect on target’ rather than ‘effect on audience’ (but then what was the effect and who was meant to be impressed, offended, alarmed, enraged?)

    However, having seen the YouTube videos of MRL-delivered bomblet strikes on entire grid squares courtesy of the Syrians and their Russian suppliers, and noted the determined, vociferous silence about collateral damage, illegal munitions (okay, the Russians didn’t sign up to the Dublin treaty, but when did the US get a free pass for similar use of “other people say you shouldn’t use these Bad Bombs”?) and so on, my give-a fµckometer is stubbornly pegged at zero.

  9. No. There’s the small matter of the meetings Trump just had with Xi, in the course of which Xi endorsed Trump’s strike on Assad and following which agreed his toughened stance with respect to North Korea and rejected imports of NORK coal, turning over a dozen ship loads away, whiloe tolerating the approach of a US ‘armada’.

    What we have here is a quid pro quo, obviously. And it’s a very well negotiated one – Trump gave away things he’d set up for the purpose of negotiating them away. he’s left where he started, losing nothing. China has moved enormously.

    He’s a novelty, is The Donald. He tweets things as bargaining chips, not statements of policy or intention.

  10. Where’s the upside to this for Brits?

    Well, to be fair, 30 years ago we didn’t have nearly as many kebab shops or know what sharia law, female genital mutilation, or child grooming gangs were. So immigration has not only expanded our cultural awareness, but also our experience of intestinal bacteria.

  11. ‘people become less utopian and more liberally conservative as they age, is education and experience.’

    When you are young you believe that the recidivists in charge are misguided but redeemable, when you get old, flogging and hanging for the bastards that steal your money to feather their own nest seems like a more satisfying option (you learn that recidivism is incurable and heritable).

    Trumps military adventures don’t seem to be going too well, Yemen foray was a clusterfuck, the false flag event in Syria showed how crap the Tomahawk really is and the MOAB in Afghanistan is a bizarre weapon of choice, poppy crop was already in so that’s ok. Either it is an elaborate plan to out his embedded enemies or he is a dangerously clueless fuckwit (it is hard to tell at the moment).

  12. “Either it is an elaborate plan to out his embedded enemies or he is a dangerously clueless fuckwit (it is hard to tell at the moment).”

    Personally, I’m going with an elaborate plan to out the embedded enemies of a dangerously clueless fuckwit.

  13. With Trump, it’s more like when he changes his mind, the facts change too, proving he was right all along, both for and against whatever it is. Like NATO not being obsolete anymore, whatever, if anything, that’s supposed to mean.

  14. I suspect a thermobaric weapon might be jolly effective against a tunnel network, or at least against the buggers inside…

  15. Perhaps Trump fully gets these economic questions from the outset. But realises the biggest determinant of success in any situation is psychology and bias. He knows protectionism is a vote winner. And he knows you can’t persuade anyone of anything just by telling them the right answer or the facts. So he lays a pathway by which he can move people towards an end state he wants in a way which is psychologically acceptable to them at each turn. This means, at times, appearing to take a wrong turn. It means not having much regard for the truth. Or for dogma and ideology. My working hypothesis is that Trump is close to a genius at solving problems via psychological manipulation. Part of this genius is modifying the approach as required. Not so much learning – which more implies amassing a body of knowledge and reapplying it – but more operating intuitively based on long ago learned skills and proven rule of thumb strategies. I’m on the lookout for anything that disproves this hypothesis. But Trump is so far confirming it. It could be that part of this genius is that he always minimises failure – actual and perceived. Or that he makes his performance unmeasurable, or that he sets up confirmation bias in people like me.

  16. I’m with Mr Risdon on this. I think what we’re seeing is the difference between a statesman & a businessman. We’re used to seeing politicians who aspire to be statesmen. They want to be seen to be doing “the right thing”. They’re constantly aware of the mark they’ll leave in the history books. Trump’s only interested in the bottom line. Does the potential gain warrant the risk? Try something. If that doesn’t work, cut your losses, try something else. Always keep your adversary off balance. If you see an opportunity, shift direction & exploit it.
    In a leadership sense he’s behaving much less like an elected politician & more like an absolute ruler.
    Three and a half years down the line could be fascinating. The US could be in a much improved position but the usual suspects will still be judging him the the worst president of all time.

  17. Incidentally, the Afghan bomb’s straight out of the terrorists’ playbook. He’s car-bombed them right where they live. Now they’ll be hampered by having to take precautions against the next time he does it.

  18. The BBC has someone called Mo. mentioning a mountain of Fire after the bomb went off…

    I would love to see the before and after photos of the tunnel complex.

  19. I don’t think it does much actual damage to the tunnels from what I recall. I think it sucks all available air (and anything that isn’t nailed down) out of the tunnels, killing everyone inside.

  20. I agree Tim, if we’re talking about reasonably deep tunnels of reinforced concrete. But if these have simply been hand dug, then parts of them may well have collapsed.

  21. @TimN
    I think that’s what pretty well any HE bomb does. Sharp high pressure wave followed by a low pressure one. The difference with the MOAB is it’s a fuel/air device. Conventional HE, a large proportion of the explosive’s the oxidiser element. About 4/5ths the mass. A thermobaric utilises oxygen from the air so you get around 5 times the bang for your buck.

  22. “What we have here is a quid pro quo, obviously. And it’s a very well negotiated one – Trump gave away things he’d set up for the purpose of negotiating them away. he’s left where he started, losing nothing. China has moved enormously.

    He’s a novelty, is The Donald. He tweets things as bargaining chips, not statements of policy or intention.”

    I don’t know who first said it, but his supporters take him seriously but not literally, his detractors take him literally but not seriously. That’s a great negotiating position to be in because his tweets and changes of direction won’t piss off his supporters but they will keep his opponents destabilised and off guard.

  23. There’s a party trick a welder mate used to do with his ox-acetylene rig & a binbag replicates it rather well. Get the gas mix right & he could produce a bang you’d hear 5 miles away & set your ears ringing for an hour if you were anywhere near it. The amount of actual gas it took was trivial.

  24. Everything Trump says is consistent with his being a fool and an ignoramus who repeats the last thing he’s been told.

    Alternatively, perhaps he’s a genius who doesn’t mind looking like an idiot, and his public statements are mere ploys aimed indirectly at achieving some cunningly planned result. And the cunning plan can be divined only by finding out what actually happens.

    According to the second narrative, Trump is a secret supporter of Obamacare.

    I doubt that anyone really believes the second narrative. Your guy is a buffoon, and underneath the bluster you know it.

  25. SJW, Trump is certainly a buffoon at times according to the dictionary definition. But I consider that just another of his strengths. Successful people use embarrassment as a form of innoculation from self-inhibition and also ridicule. Consider some of the outlandish things Trump has done such as Wrestlemania. Being comedic is also a way of attracting people. Trump is therefore able to play a wide range of tones from buffoonery to dead seriousness. Richard Branson is similar. Compare that to the monotone of Hillary Clinton.

  26. “Everything Trump says is consistent with his being a fool and an ignoramus who repeats the last thing he’s been told.”
    Again you’re looking at the difference between a “statesman” & a busnessman.
    A politician wants you think he’s cleverer than he really is. The wily businessman wants you to underestimate him. Believe you’re cleverer than he is. Whilst your patting yourself on the back for your supposed superiority he’s just pulled the rug out from beneath your feet.

  27. IIRC, the thing with Jones is that he HASN’T rebelled against his parents; they’re lefties too, and heavily into trade unions.

  28. According to the second narrative, Trump is a secret supporter of Obamacare.

    Healthcare in America is completely screwed, with costs rising much faster than anyone can afford. Fixing it would require enforcing the many laws that healthcare companies have been exempted from, jailing large numbers of healthcare bosses and workers, and the reduced cost would cut GDP by 10% or more in the short term.

    Neither Democrats nor Republicucks will support such a policy. So, when the whole thing collapses in a couple of years, Trump will be in a position to push for radical reform, and blame the Democrats and Republicucks for refusing to pass a healthcare law that might have fixed it.

  29. Your guy is a buffoon, and underneath the bluster you know it.

    Yes. the man who beat the Democrat party, the Republican party and the Dinosaur Media is clearly stupid.

    ‘You so stoopid!’ is about the only argument the lefties have left these days when anyone disagrees with them. That’s Dunning-Kruger for you.

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