Well, it’s not Cliff, is it?

A British pop star is alleged to have raped a 14-year-old girl after his bodyguard plucked the teenager from the front row of his concert.
The woman says she was plied with champagne by the singer who then pinned her down and attacked her in his hotel suite in the 1970s in an ordeal that ‘affected [her] entire life’.

Batting for the wrong team.

62 comments on “Well, it’s not Cliff, is it?

  1. Has to be someone naff. They don’t arrest cool musicians even if everyone knows they fiddled with a child.

    One of the Bay City Rollers?

  2. Having realised there could have been money in her story, she regrets having only just remembered it.

  3. but because the alleged offence happened abroad it was out of the jurisdiction of detectives

    So, 1970s solo artists who were also popular outside the UK – that limits numbers quite a bit. Or perhaps he was touring resorts in Spain (likely, given that there was a comedian with him); which suggests an artist at the tail end of his career.

    All I heard repetitively as he was pinning me down was, “relax, relax”, ‘It won’t hurt if you relax’.

    Frankie Goes to Hollywood?

  4. Why does this happen when women hit their 50s? All these cases are coming out now.

    Is it the realisation of death and that life passed them by? I mean, maybe they were so destroyed by the event that it did have that effect, in which case, I’m sympathetic, but I’ve met people who blame their problems on one event, and really, it’s just denial. Pretending it’s the fault of the event rather than you sitting around watching TV all day.

  5. It sounds more like a sexual fantasy than an actual attack. The female equivalent of a Penthouse letter. Besides, why would the Sun be handing out free tickets to a performance outside the country?

    A comedian, a female friend of the artist and a backing singer were said to have been waiting in the suite.

    So we know it wasn’t Cliff. I might imagine him hanging around with a backing singer. Maybe a female friend. But a comedian? I don’t think so.

    The Sun said he was a solo artist. Does that imply he wasn’t always a solo artist? George Harrison was in a beat combo but he had a hit as a solo artist in 1970. But he is dead. So that rules him out – she wouldn’t be seeking money from a dead man.

    So I would go with Rod Stewart or Tom Jones.

  6. She was in the front row of a concert abroad alone at fourteen? She was plucked by the bodyguard (played by Milton Reid I presume) and plied with champagne in a hotel room? Does she work for Mills and Boon?

    How many of us can honestly say he never ravished a fourteen year old back in the seventies? I know I can’t. At least, I can’t prove that I didn’t, which seems to amount to the same thing.

    Statute of limitations on this shit, stat.

  7. It has the stench of Yewtree on it. Uncorroborated tale from 50 years ago.

    This kind of bollocks is everywhere now as blupork both national and local jump on the bandwagon with legions of evidence-free accusations from decades ago.

    It is easier and safer than dealing with real criminals in the here-and-now. And serves the Marxian femminst agenda.

    Which Cologne didn’t–so the same femmi-scum twitting “I believe her” about shite like the above were declaring the Cologne victims “unreliable witnesses” within 2 days of the attacks.

    The cops/CPS need to be stepped on but with Dress-Up and Blulabour at the top condoning the nonsense that isn’t going to happen.

  8. Andrew M – “Frankie Goes to Hollywood?”

    I think young girls are fairly safe in their presence. Or if they are not, the girl would have to be very naive not to have noticed something …. unusual.

  9. Only the two frontmen. The three “musicians” were rather more friends of the cispatriarchy than Dorothy.

    Actually, by all tales, that’s what they were in the band for, shagging the birds, because they certainly couldn’t play. The records were entirely session musicians as I understand it.

  10. So Much For Subtlety
    “she wouldn’t be seeking money from a dead man.”

    I doubt she is after money, she is in it to win the victimhood lottery and be judged more worthy because of her ‘suffering’.

  11. Hang on a sec, it’s been under investigation since 2014, 3 years! For a 40 year old ‘crime’?

    It must be a fun lark, far more worthwhile than dealing with an actual crime like a south London stabbing.

  12. Tim Worstall – “Actually, by all tales, that’s what they were in the band for, shagging the birds, because they certainly couldn’t play. The records were entirely session musicians as I understand it.”

    I know that there aren’t that many Gay people around – certainly a lot less than the media implies – but that they did not even make up half Frankie Goes To Hollywood? I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

    Who would have thought that they had to employ beards?

  13. Bloke in Wiltshire

    “Why does this happen when women hit their 50s? All these cases are coming out now.
    Is it the realisation of death and that life passed them by? ”

    Never underestimate a women’s need for attention.

  14. “Horn dominated the recording of “Relax” in his effort for perfectionism. The band were overawed and intimidated by Horn’s reputation, and thus were too nervous to make suggestions. Johnson said in his autobiography, “Whatever he said we went along with”.[6] When attempts to record with the full band proved unsatisfactory, Horn hired former Ian Dury backing band the Blockheads for the sessions, with Norman Watt-Roy providing the original bass line. Those sessions were later deemed to be not modern sounding enough. Horn then constructed a more electronic-based version of the song with keyboards by session musician Andy Richards and with rhythm programming assistance from J. J. Jeczalik of Art of Noise. Horn developed this version of the recording in his west London studio while the band remained in their hometown of Liverpool. Horn had made 3 versions of “Relax” prior to Richards and guitarist Stephen Lipson joining his ZTT Production ‘Theam’ in late 1983. Horn left the studio late one night asking for Lipson to erase the multitrack (of version 3) due to lack of progress, but came back into the studio some time later to hear Richards playing a variety of modal chords based around the key of E minor with Lipson playing guitar along to the unerased multitrack.[7][8] Ultimately lead vocalist Johnson was the only band member to perform on the record; the only contribution by the other members was a sample crafted from the sound of the rest of the band jumping into a swimming pool.”

  15. I don’t really get how any of these cases can be prosecuted. How can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that something did or did not happen 40 years ago?

    Sure, if they made a complaint at the time (or nearer the time) then you could make some sort of argument, but I still think that beyond reasonable doubt is out of reach.

  16. “I don’t really get how any of these cases can be prosecuted. How can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that something did or did not happen 40 years ago?”

    They can’t. What they seem to do instead is stack the vague accusations up a mile high and railroad a conviction.

    I imagine that’s why this one has been ‘investigated’ for three years, they are hunting for more accusers, not evidence.

  17. I imagine that’s why this one has been ‘investigated’ for three years, they are hunting for more accusers, not evidence.

    And now the story is public, stand amazed as more women remember similar acts on the 1970s.

  18. Gamecock,
    Not even. The Daily Mail just cribbed from the Sun; at least they had the decency to bury a link to the original article deep in the text.

  19. How many of us can honestly say he never ravished a fourteen year old back in the seventies? I know I can’t. At least, I can’t prove that I didn’t, which seems to amount to the same thing.

    I seem to be younger than the average around here.

    If I had sex with a fourteen year old in the ’70s (I didn’t but can’t prove it), then either they were committing the offence or, right towards the end, it falls (north of the border, anyway) in to “not in the public interest to prosecute” category.

  20. Well, I was having sex with a 14 year old in the 70s…..oh, wait, you mean with someone else?

  21. Holly Johnson used to lure young female fans into his hotel room, ply them with Vimto, force them into the bathroom, and then aggressively style their hair.

  22. SE
    I was only in my twenties in the seventies, a mere callow youth. There are guys around here who clearly remember VE day.

    The seventies are a different country. There was no shortage of underage girls chasing bands. TotP would set the camera low and pan across the miniskirted girls to catch their knickers. The cameramen called them “c-shots”. Some of those girls were under age I know for a fact, a friend whose dad threw polystyrene boulders at Dr Who supplied the tickets.

  23. Imagine if it was Feargal Sharkey who lured you to his room tho. That would just be depressing.

  24. I would say it is probably a very short list:
    1. British solo artist (1970s was a band era)
    2. Dom Perignon served on European tour – limits it to the slightly more pretentious end of the market, the bands and artists grafting on a European tour would typically get a crate of Kronenbourg in the dressing room
    3. Legend – not quite the same status as “Icon”, but notably famous.
    4. Probably not dead – or why would the police be looking into it?

  25. I wonder how she found out that what she originally thought was soda was Dom Perignon? Working out it was alcohol credible. Working out that it was Champagne maybe. But how in retrospect could she be sure of the brand?
    And I can’t help wondering about all those bruises. I can understand a mother hiding a love bite from a “strict father”, but bruising on the scale described?

  26. Theo–How can someone prove what they didn’t do 40 years ago. Innocent until proven guilty no more.

    Justice would start with an accusation against Bliar who removed the burden of proof. However unlike so many other accusations the CPS would doubtless be strangely reluctant to do anything about such a claim should one turn up.

    Still he must be vulnerable if tales of his pre-hetero toiloitering (sic) days have any validity.

  27. a friend whose dad threw polystyrene boulders at Dr Who supplied the tickets.

    Yet another job replaced by automation.

    Why would the police be looking into it?”

    Because their budgets are really stretched so they…oh, wait.

  28. I can’t remember what I had for dinner on Thursday. Unless there’s actual forensics or documentation, cases probably shouldn’t be brought for allegations older than a couple of years.

  29. Of course it’s possible to prove allegations from forty years ago. Harder than proving them from last week, but still possible. I can’t see why it’s taking the cops three years to build a case, mind you.

    If this guy was raping fourteen year old girls then he deserves to get banged up for a very long time. That is a big if, obviously, but I find the reaction of some of you guys mystifying. I get the feminist loon issue completely, and I also question whether the cops haven’t got better things to do, but still.

  30. I mean, what would you want them to do if it was your daughter? I know I would want them to undertake a sensible and impartial investigation and then put it to the CPS. I’d like the CPS to take a sensible view and if appropriate put it to a jury – people like us, after all.

    (I would also like anonymity for the defendant and defence costs paid, probably irrespective of the verdict.)

  31. Odd expression.

    “I lost my virginity”

    Like; I lost my keys. Or I lost my way.

    I didn’t ‘lose’ my virginity.

    I gave it away quite deliberately.

  32. @interested

    I agree in principle. But…..

    Memories fade and become unreliable. Witnesses die. There are no forensics.

    It’s why many countries have a statute of limitations.

    In the UK we seem to be heading the other way in sex crimes. The older it is, the more important it seems to be to prosecute.

  33. If it were my daughter I suppose I’d want the plod to make an effort. But I’d say to her, “look, you’re nearly sixty and I’m geriatric; why wait until now to bring it up?”

  34. If you have actual proof, that’s one thing. These cases we’ve seen haven’t had anything more than he said, she said though. I doubt this will be any different.

    And I agree, if he did bad things he should be locked up. But only if we can prove it beyond reasonable doubt. That’s the whole point of the law. Prove wrong-doing and then lock people up. If all you need is a few people to make accusations to get someone locked up then it becomes very scary very quickly.

  35. After watching the CPS throw the poor girl in the Ched Evans case under the nearest number 47, I think I’d be having a quiet word with the bastard myself and asking for a substantial donation to her college fund, rather than running to the popo.

  36. If all you need is a few people to make accusations to get someone locked up then it becomes very scary very quickly.

    That’s the goal. To be able to destroy any man’s life by a mere accusation, no matter how many decades later. No matter how little proof.

    The left are trying to destroy any remaining respect for the law. They don’t seem to realize what will happen after they do.

  37. “To be able to destroy any man’s life by a mere accusation, no matter how many decades later. No matter how little proof.”

    Unless he is an imported friend of the left in which case accusations two days old don’t count.

    50 year old claims with no corroboration should not stand. I don’t care how many tall tales appear. Without proof–of a kind 50 years will have long since erased–NO CASE. Don’t care whose daughter it is. They shouldn’t have waited 50 years. Or does the mystery guest of today’s accusation possess the fantastical “star” power of Jimmy Saville –such that no one would ever have believed the poor girl.* Bullshit.

    *Even if they didn’t believe they would have investigated–and had far more chance of finding the truth then than now.

  38. I don’t think it’s about destroying respect for the law, if ‘it’ exists as a thing, but about destroying relationships between men and women (and people generally). If the state can turn each against the other it has a fighting chance of stepping into the breach. Divide and rule.

  39. BiCR – maybe she waited until her father was dead. I dunno. I do totally get the objections, I just think I’d like to know a bit more before arriving at my conclusion.

  40. Rational Anarchist – “I don’t really get how any of these cases can be prosecuted. How can you prove beyond reasonable doubt that something did or did not happen 40 years ago?”

    Well remember John Demanjuk (or however you spell his name). After decades of prosecutors and witnesses swearing he was a particular SS Guard, he proved he wasn’t. So they turned around and swore he was another SS guard of a similar name.

    I would call that textbook reasonable doubt myself.

    He was still convicted. Juries are odd things.

  41. Alex – “1. British solo artist (1970s was a band era)”

    I may be over-reading it but that “solo” looks like they are stressing he used to be in a band. You wouldn’t say that Tom Jones had a solo career because he has pretty much only had a solo career.

    Rod Stewart on the other hand fell out with the Faces because they did not like his solo career that he was pursuing while technically still with the band.

    “2. Dom Perignon served on European tour – limits it to the slightly more pretentious end of the market, the bands and artists grafting on a European tour would typically get a crate of Kronenbourg in the dressing room”

    European tour? Overseas does not necessarily mean Europe. Tom Jones would have been in Vegas by the 70s I think. And Rod Stewart moved to LA in 1975.

    Interested – “If this guy was raping fourteen year old girls then he deserves to get banged up for a very long time.”

    That would be all of them, wouldn’t it? How many pop stars do you think weren’t banging 14 year olds? Elvis. David Bowie. Page.

    Interested – “I mean, what would you want them to do if it was your daughter?”

    I would want them to have booked me for murder back in 1974. But what was a 14 year old girl doing at a rock concert by herself? Well, with a younger friend. What were her parents thinking?

    Even if her story is utterly true, what good is this now? A sensible prosecution would not even start. How was the star in question supposed to know she was 14? Did she show any ID? You have reasonable doubt right there.

    The problem is that the feminists have so intimidated everyone that there will probably be a prosecution and there may even be a conviction. Just like Rolf Harris was railroaded on bogus charges. That is a danger in the same way rape is.

  42. Edward M. Grant

    “That’s the goal. To be able to destroy any man’s life by a mere accusation, no matter how many decades later. No matter how little proof.”

    The hall mark of a totalitarian society one where everyone is already guilty, it’s only at the discretion of the authorities as to if you are locked up.

    It’s also helpful to the state of fear that the ‘crime’ is ridiculous and implausible., that seems to make those who stand by and watch more likely self-censor and comply.

    This was true of all the Marxist states, all they needed was an accusation from an ’empowered’ person, and you were done. Mao and Stalin were masters at this.

  43. The hall mark of a totalitarian society one where everyone is already guilty

    This is exactly how China works. Everyone is encouraged to break the law in one way or another and nothing is done about it until they want some cash or to put someone away and then they’ve got them on something.

  44. The other side to ‘everyone is guilty of something’ is ‘the process is the punishment’.

    Look at Cliff Richard, I don’t think he even got charged; there was no evidence but he got totally fucked over. Plod could do this to anyone.

  45. “I may be over-reading it but that “solo” looks like they are stressing he used to be in a band. You wouldn’t say that Tom Jones had a solo career because he has pretty much only had a solo career.”

    I don’t read it that way, I’d say they said ‘solo’ to rule out lead singers of bands, as he was also described as the singer. Many people could be described as ‘pop legends’, some are in bands, some aren’t. Solo narrows it down a bit.

    It was also an artist that had backing singers, which also rules out quite a few I’d say.

  46. Of course there’s always the obvious choice, Mr Paul Gadd. Would he be described as a solo artist though?

  47. By a process of elimination, I have come to a conclusion but I am keeping it to myself, because if you get these things wrong you could end up eating a lot of humble pie.

  48. “Artist with backing singers who wore a jumpsuit and drinks Dom Perignon. ”

    The artist wasn’t wearing a jumpsuit, the victim was.

  49. “Rodney?”
    Doubt it. I once had the pleasure/misfortune of sharing an airport lounge with the tartan twat and the stench of booze at 7.30 in the morning was overpowering. If it was him then the smell of booze would have been part of the story.

    Moreover, Rod Stewart is not a “Legend” – tabloid term for someone famous a long time ago, but now largely forgotten by the tabloids. He qualifies as a full-blown tabloid icon.

    Also he is more of a “singer” than a “solo artist”, a term implying someone who at least shakes a tambourine whilst singing.

    To my ears, Legend implies someone who was very big at the time, lots of No 1 hits, but now not heard about much. I have someone in mind who fits that bill with very boyish looks that might have appealed to 14 year old girls.

    My comprehensive filtered list of 70s solo pop Legends goes as follows (feel free to comment):

    Wrong gender
    ============
    Olivia Newton-John

    Differently inclined
    ====================
    Elton John

    Would have been banged to rights already
    ========================================
    Gary Glitter

    Notable maybe, but legend, amybe not?
    =====================================
    Ian Hunter
    Marc Almond
    Steve Harley
    Al Stewart
    Steve Winwood

    Wouldn’t pose in a short white dressing gown
    ============================================
    Brian Eno
    Manfred Mann
    Paul McCartney
    Ringo Starr

    More of a singer than a “solo artist”
    =====================================
    Rod Stewart
    Ian Gillan

    More rock than pop
    ==================
    Jeff Beck
    Ritchie Blackmore

    Dom Perignon – you must be kidding
    ==================================
    Dave Clark
    Mungo Jerry
    Van Morrison

    14 year old girls didn’t go to their concerts
    =============================================
    Elvis Costello
    Eric Clapton
    Joe Jackson
    Robin Trower

    Who’s left??
    ===========

  50. Alex, I think it would be fair to say that Marc Almond fits more comfortably in the “Differently inclined” category. Also in the 1970s he was completely unknown, so no champagne-fuelled Euro tours for him yet. Even in the 1980s, for the first few years of his fame he wasn’t solo.

    Generally, I wonder if we aren’t all taking “legend” too literally. We are talking, after all about the British mainstream press and Yewtree-types squared. Either of them alone would happily hype up “sort of remembered by those of a certain age” up to “global megastar” to suit their purposes.

    As other have implied I suspect that we are talking about a performer who isn’t or wasn’t considered too “credible”. I think the witchfinder generals know that if they went after someone too much beloved of the chattering classes then they would suddenly be facing too much scrutiny from people who matter. They almost overstepped the mark with Cliff Richard. Suddenly people were questioning their whole methodology.
    If they went after the likes of a Bowie or Lennon (to pick random dead icons – completely innocent as far as I know) then the sort of people who wouldn’t give a damn about Glitter, or Savile or even Rolf Harris, would suddenly care a hell of a lot. And many of those would be powerful in the media and elsewhere.

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