Those police cuts

If you don’t like me, I don’t care”, was in essence May’s response to police criticism of her funding cuts. In the wake of the Manchester terrorist attack, the federation bravely spoke up about the security impact of losing more than 20,000 staff in the past seven years. A fortnight ago news broke that we are set to lose a further 4,000 officers.

In 1994 there were 128,000 police in England and Wales. In 2016, 124,000. That’s not exactly a drastic cut over time, is it?

Sure, population is up but I don’t think that includes 15,000 or so PCSOs. Invented in 2002.

41 comments on “Those police cuts

  1. We also need to know how many of those were desk jobs that have been converted to civilian roles.

  2. Should have also said I want the stats to annoy a load of people who keep telling me how bad police numbers are…

  3. I don’t know what the population differences between 1994 and today in raw numbers, but it has changed quite a bit in demographic make up. If half the people you interact with speak no English that takes up quite a bit more time. Plus all the left-wing bullshit that has been piled on top of the cops – e.g. two officers having to transport any prisoner who claims he has chest pains to hospital immediately, lecturing people about Facebook posts, arresting kids for playing conkers roughly et cetera

  4. Considering that we have around 8m recorded crimes today compared to 20m reported crimes in 1994, we might ask what the fuck they’re all doing.

  5. Should say, the way that labour and the rest are using the terrorist attacks in Manchester and London as a stick to beat the Tories with is disgusting, insofar as they are trying to suggest that a few extra beat bobbies would make any difference. Pure exploitation of grief.

  6. It would be interesting to hear what Ms. Abbott would do with extra police. Have them check for nasty tweet

  7. Having murdered 150 million people they are hardly going to stop at lies and emotional exploitation.

    If more people pointed out what socialism is and what it has done the scum would not be able to posture as having some sort of moral high ground on ANY issue.

  8. it’s not a lack of police -it’s a surplus of muslims that’s the problem. Less muzzies= less terrorism.

  9. I’ll consider the possibility that the police may be too over-stretched to tackle terrorism when they cease investigating groping incidents from the 1970s. Or warning people about ‘abusive’ tweets.

  10. It is irrelevant to look at police numbers. As we see with ordinary criminals, it does not matter how many you arrest if you simply let them go again.

    The Tsarist government had a spy on the Central Committee of the Communist Party. They knew everything Lenin was up to. But they did not bother to punish anyone for it so it did not matter.

    Catch-and-release does not work. The British police does not even bother to do that.

  11. Having themselves largely destroyed the trust and confidence they used to enjoy, I don’t think there are many people left who think more police is the answer to anything except too much free speech.

    Get back to me about more police numbers when there is a government in place willing to take the necessary steps to expunge the evil creed of Islam from Britain.

  12. “Moquifen, that’s a dreadful thing to say! For shame!

    It should be ‘fewer muzzies’…”

    Hangs head in shame

  13. “If you don’t like me, I don’t care”

    If only May was saying that. I’m fucking sick of leaders who want to look warm and cuddly.

    I’d much prefer it if they wanted to be respected, and gave a clear indication that they’d do the necessary, irrespective of what the columnists thought. May is better than Cameron was, but only marginally.

    Politicians nowadays seem to be a bunch of bedwetters, cowering in a backroom whilst they wait for a focus group pontificates on what policy should be.

  14. J Square: And you think U-turn May is something different ?

    She tough talks only when she thinks there is nothing you can do.

    In a situation where people can and might do something about her she pees her knickers and drops her bottle quicker than a greasy milkman.

    Ask yourself how much the Tories are spending–TV/Inet/ full page newspaper ads etc–because she (and they) are scared shitless about her lacklustre bungling and her lack of (or piss-poor) judgement.

  15. Grimly amusing hearing leftists who no doubt call the police ‘pigs’ in private, bemoaning a decline in police numbers.

  16. Pat, Ms. Flabbott is no longer Shadow Home Secretary and has been replaced by Lyn Brown. Apparently Ms. Flabbott is poorly.

  17. The issue, as far as I can see, is that UK Police forces are far too big. This causes “empire building” and massive HQs but small response and neighbourhood policing teams.
    Comparisons with the 80s are meaningless because they had recently merged forces so had less time to gather their empires.
    Small localised Burgh or District police forces run by Inspecting ranks who are answerable to local councillors as in America for most non specialised crime. That would lead to more accountability and less waste of officers

  18. The Police have been telling us, for the last 50 years, that ‘Bobbies on the Beat’ is a waste of their time and money because it didn’t work, and that anyone calling for its return wants to go back to a ‘Golden Age’ that never existed.

  19. it’s not a lack of police -it’s a surplus of muslims that’s the problem. Less muzzies= less terrorism.

    Don’t flatter yourself, English Types. If half of what has been reported is half true, British counter-terrorism couldn’t successfully track and thwart an attack by an umbrella wielding octogenarian spinster from Wales.

    As usual you Deep Thinkers miss the point: Less Muslims and/or more police isn’t the issue. Your police work sucks… Everything flows from that single fact.

    What part of “He’s on TV waving an ISIS flag and screaming ‘Death to infidels!’ and he lives in London!” didn’t British police and security/intelligence agencies understand?

  20. Oh, and keeping what police you have largely unarmed is always a splendid idea.

    Nothing says you’re taking an existential threat seriously like refusing to issue handguns to those charged with keeping the populace safe from that existential threat.

  21. As opposed to what Dennis –your shower of bluebottle shite who specialise in kneeing on homeless hobo’s chests 6 strong and suffocating them to death?

    The country that gave a security clearance to “Reality Dawns” has got nothing to be boasting about.

    Cultural Marxism infests the UK–as it does the US. That puts a big spoke in from Dress Up May down. And Princess Toni Blair made sure that the top cops career path was only via the PC path. PC PC so to speak. So most of them prefer looking for anti-RoP tweeters to doing much about bearded murder.

  22. Dennis

    ‘Don’t flatter yourself, English Types. If half of what has been reported is half true, British counter-terrorism couldn’t successfully track and thwart an attack by an umbrella wielding octogenarian spinster from Wales.

    As usual you Deep Thinkers miss the point: Less Muslims and/or more police isn’t the issue. Your police work sucks… Everything flows from that single fact.

    What part of “He’s on TV waving an ISIS flag and screaming ‘Death to infidels!’ and he lives in London!” didn’t British police and security/intelligence agencies understand?’

    They (allegedly, but what else can we go on, people have been arrested) broke up five other plots during the period after Westminster. At a given point there may be too many plotting cunts for the cops to deal with – it doesn’t *necessarily* mean incompetence. It may do, sure, but we just don’t know.

    In sheer numbers we’re still doing better than the USA though – more died in Orlando than in all three of our recent jobs together. Though why the fuck you would want to make this USA vs UK I don’t know – we’re supposed to be working together.

  23. The vast majority of American “terror plots” busted by the FBI are plots that the FBI started themselves.

    The full extent of time and resources the Yanks have wasted on plots that would most likely never existed save for official entrapment will probably never be known. We already know it is a lot however.

  24. Climb down off your soapboxes, Mates…

    No where and at no time did I suggest U.S. counterterrorism was better than what you’ve got. Chances are ours is just as bad (and largely for the same reasons). One need only read the 9/11 Commission Report and review the facts of how our intelligence agencies handled the Boston Massacre suspects prior to that massacre to come to that conclusion…

    That doesn’t change the fact that it appears that negligence was a contributing factor to that tragedy. If you want to dismiss that outright, that’s your business.

  25. The country that gave a security clearance to “Reality Dawns” has got nothing to be boasting about.

    No boasting here. But does the country of Philby, Burgess, Maclean and Blunt has license to wag fingers at others on security and intelligence matters?

  26. ‘That doesn’t change the fact that it appears that negligence was a contributing factor to that tragedy. If you want to dismiss that outright, that’s your business.’

    But I specifically (and clearly) didn’t dismiss it outright – I just said we don’t know, because we don’t. There is a finite number of MI5 officers, and cops and Army intelligence, and a very large number of plots. They have to prioritise somehow; we can’t prove the counterfactual, but it’s entirely possible that the people they did arrest would have caused more death and destruction than those they (perhaps) couldn’t get round to in time.

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing, rarely available to soldiers, police officers and Security Service staff at the point when it would actually help the most.

  27. Truth is a drug that upsets a lot of people Dennis.

    Too much often causes death. One way or another.

    Just ask the Clintons.

  28. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, rarely available to soldiers, police officers and Security Service staff at the point when it would actually help the most.

    That’s rather self-serving, isn’t it? The London attack fits the pattern of small scale, low-tech, known wolf terrorism that emerged years ago in the U.S and Europe. There was nothing new about the type of attack, the kind of actor, or the amount of intelligence available about the actors prior to the attack. I can recall half a dozen such attacks here in the U.S. without effort before moving on to similar incidents in various parts of Europe.

    Soldiers, police and security personnel are all required to learn, anticipate and adapt. If they don’t, they aren’t doing their jobs… There is nothing in the events leading up to the London attack that suggests anyone had learned a thing from Boston, Paris, Orlando, San Bernardino or Manchester.

  29. Copper (and other) Numbers

    2010 there were a total of 171600 officers, in 2016 that number was 151000

    Operational frontline
    2010 – 125,799
    2011 – 122,076
    2012 – 118,482
    2013 – 115,280
    2014 – 113,595
    2015 – 113,134

    Net migration (inward) has been around 250,000 per year however British nationals have been leaving at between 150,000 and 200,000 per year so immigration of foreign nationals has been around 400,000 per year
    (the population of the Greater London area encompassing the London Boroughs, Hemel Hempstead, Watford, Woking, Harlow, St Albans and Bracknell every 18 years).

    Every year since 2010 we have lost 2000 front line coppers and gained 400,000 people who are new to the laws and practices of the UK.

  30. “Every year since 2010 we have lost 2000 front line coppers and gained 400,000 people who are new to the laws and practices of the UK.”

    But that shouldn’t be a problem because the left tells me they’re just like us – right, bigots?

  31. Dennis – usually people have to commit a crime to do more than take them in for questioning.
    To imprison them long term requires a bit more – like committing a crime and being found guilty.
    Though of course much cheaper if can simply kill them in the process of planning a crime there are limits to what can be done by the security services.

  32. Jonathan,

    they mostly are just like us but with a different cultural background, taking a dump in the street might be the done thing back home but over here someone will call the coppers. Once it is explained that we don’t do that sort of thing here then that problem with that individual is solved but it takes time and manpower.
    The vast majority of the 400,000 will be house trained before they arrive but some won’t, given time they will all probably turn out to be model citizens but there are known costs involved that have not been factored in and that were never explained to the rest of us before the doors were opened.

  33. Dennis – usually people have to commit a crime to do more than take them in for questioning. To imprison them long term requires a bit more – like committing a crime and being found guilty. Though of course much cheaper if can simply kill them in the process of planning a crime there are limits to what can be done by the security services.

    Ever heard of TPIM notices? The Terrorist Prevention and Investigation Measures Act of 2011 isn’t much, but the aggressive use of TPIM notices against suspected terrorists could have proved useful in (a) disrupting planning and operations by suspected terrorists and (b) providing a basis for lodging criminal charges against suspected terrorists.

    My question to the police and intelligence communities would be this: Why aren’t you using this tool to its fullest extent?

  34. It’s the optics. If you cut 20,000 police, then there’s terrorist attacks, then you have to justify that decision.

    It might be easy to justify, but you have to stand up, attend the debate and make your case.

    Else voters will use their hindsight to decide whether it was a bad decision.

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