Yep, it’s my fault

Why we Ukippers should be ashamed of ourselves

As Nigel has been saying as he tours the studios, to have thought that winning meant we had won was a gross, hubristic, error. So now, with Paul Nuttall gone, we are going to find out whether there are second acts in political lives.

For our point is that regardless of who sits in 10 Downing Street, it is there and in Westminster that the power should be held. If we collectively decide to change – or lose – our minds then we should be at liberty to do so rather than be locked into governance from afar. The fight is far from over.

60 comments on “Yep, it’s my fault

  1. “For our point is that regardless of who sits in 10 Downing Street, it is there and in Westminster that the power should be held.”

    Exactly that. The entire thrust of the Remain campaign was that we were too stupid to be allowed to make our own decisions, that we must be protected against Evil Tories by the benevolent EU because we would never have the sense to kick them out, that 300 years of environmental, workers, and personal protection legislation was imaginary and only came about by the magic of EU membership.

  2. UKIP is a victim of its own success and its electoral destruction reflects the reality of that. In delivering on BRExit, UKIP has made itself an irrelevance and the remaining support has ebbed away simply because it has now become rudderless and without direction.

    Take away the focus on exit from the European Union and the wider UKIP membership and supporters have little in common with each other.

    There will be no return to UKIP for Farage as he’s not so foolish as to keep flogging a dead horse.

  3. You’ve made the same mistake U.S. conservatives have been making for years (and are still making).

    U.S. conservatives have always wanted to believe (desperately so, in fact) that the Republican Party actually believed in the conservative principles they’ve claimed to support. The evidence has been there for decades that it simply wasn’t true, but for whatever reason, conservatives have doggedly held to the idea that with a bit more persuasion and the hint of a nudge, the Party will actually do what they want it to do. Look at the Republican Party now… They are in the position to repeal Obamacare and they refuse. They’re just as comfortable with Obamacare as without.

    Donald Trump exists not as a response to Hillary Clinton, but as a response to a Republican Party establishment that thinks Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush are fine conservatives, and that reforming tax codes, repealing Obamacare and ending corporate welfare are nothing more than convenient talking points.

    Your enemy isn’t – and never was – Jeremy Corbyn and Labour. It is Theresa May and the Conservative Party. Labour hates Brexit and that is known. No danger in that. The danger is in a Conservative Party that simply doesn’t care whether Brexit happens or not… In the final analysis that is the real danger: Running along side a political party that is just as comfortable inside the EU as it would be outside the EU. The sooner you UKIP types come to understand that, the better off you’ll be. Find your Donald Trump and begin the process of tearing apart both Labour and the Conservatives. If you don’t you’re just jerking off.

  4. Labour hates Brexit and that is known.

    Up to a point, Lord Copper. Labour campaigned to leave in 1983, when Corbyn was elected, and for the far left leaving the EU is an essential step on the road to Glorious Socialism.

    Most of modern metrosexual Labour is very much pro-EU, because sun-dried prosecco and Thatcher. But they’re a different species altogether.

  5. @DtP,

    Couldn’t agree more. But we don’t have a Trump, we have a collection of numpties and therein lies our biggest problem.

  6. I gotta give it to May, though, in calling for the election. It was bold leadership. Didn’t work out, but bold leadership is a valuable and rare commodity in the 21st century.

  7. I gotta give it to May, though, in calling for the election. It was bold leadership. Didn’t work out, but bold leadership is a valuable and rare commodity in the 21st century.

    Nope. Just naked opportunism. Nothing wrong with that of course, if you win, but she didn’t.

  8. “The sooner you UKIP types come to understand that, the better off you’ll be. Find your Donald Trump and begin the process of tearing apart both Labour and the Conservatives. If you don’t you’re just jerking off.”

    ???

    The UKIP types *don’t vote Conservative*, they vote UKIP, and destroying the Conservatives, and obviously Labour as well, is just what they’ve been trying to do for twenty years. Farage was supposed to be the British Donald Trump. (Or, rather, vice versa, Trump is a more successful Farage.)

  9. “I gotta give it to May, though, in calling for the election. It was bold leadership. Didn’t work out, but bold leadership is a valuable and rare commodity in the 21st century.”

    Thing is, although it was objectively risky, she and her team thought she was playing safe. So I wouldn’t call it bold. I’d say it was stupid, risky, and they were too dumb to see the risks, but I wouldn’t call it bold. I’d call it complacent. They thought they were going to walk it in, and establish themselves for a decade or more.

  10. With hindsight, UKIP missed out on a golden opportunity after the 2015 election to take Labour’s place as the party of the working classes. They should have rebranded as something like UK Common Party and broadened their scope, presented themselves as a party of government and not just as a single-issue party.

    You’ll rightly point out that UKIP always had a complete manifesto, but for 90% of voters the name alone implied that you never had any intention of actually forming a government.

  11. Dennis, I don’t really know what is going on. I just want to be left alone. Apparently that’s too much to ask.

  12. Gamecock

    The problem was that they clearly believed they had nothing to worry about. The retards at HMT told them they needed cash, so Ben Gummer and Nick Timothy wrote a manifesto pledging to reduce pensions, reduce winter fuel allowance, raise a dementia tax and raise income taxes, because if you’re ahead 20% why not take some hard choices.

    They might have survived this colossal cock-up had it not been for U-turn May showing that she was weak and wobbly.

    I’m happy to see Gummer has gotten his just desserts and I sincerely hope to see Nick Timothy’s head on a pole somewhere shortly. Certainly it is the minimum that the rest of the cabinet should demand of the moron May. “Yes, Theresa, you can stay – but no more idiotic ideas from your so called ‘Brain'”.

  13. @Tel
    The UKIP types *don’t vote Conservative*, they vote UKIP, and destroying the Conservatives, and obviously Labour as well, is just what they’ve been trying to do for twenty years.

    The problem is though that people who voted UKIP weren’t all *UKIP* types they were just voters who wanted to see us leave the EU. Once they thought that had been accomplished they could back to supporting their natural parties, which they did.

    If there is to be a revolution in British politics it will have to be a Palace revolution. That is a Trump like figure must emerge in the Conservative party. After all Trump didn’t stand as an Independent, he needed the legitimacy of the Republican Party to stage his campaign.

  14. “Then what would doing nothing have been?”

    Deciding to get on with the job they were supposed to do instead of faffing about trying to increase their majority.

  15. May mistook becoming pm through sheer luck, which she has, with being actually any good.

  16. “The problem is though that people who voted UKIP weren’t all *UKIP* types they were just voters who wanted to see us leave the EU. Once they thought that had been accomplished they could back to supporting their natural parties, which they did.”

    Most of the UKIP types you’re talking about voted Conservative this time because they were the party delivering Brexit, and because Corbyn as PM was a frightening prospect.

    “If there is to be a revolution in British politics it will have to be a Palace revolution. That is a Trump like figure must emerge in the Conservative party. After all Trump didn’t stand as an Independent, he needed the legitimacy of the Republican Party to stage his campaign.”

    Sure, but the Conservative Party had one of those, she was called Thatcher, and they killed her off. Since then potential Thatchers have been in short supply.

    UK politics is different to US politics, which has a presidential system. It’s harder for an outsider to take over the Conservative Party than it was for Trump to get nominated. But I agree that new, maverick charismatic right-wing figures are desperately needed, inc. ones who can appeal to the young and not just to golf-club types.

  17. Corbyn isn’t Trump, he’s Sanders. Nothing but politics to his name, insane policies, and he came second. Not to say he didn’t do well – but I’d ask SJW (if he voted Labour) and any other Labour voters reading this one question: Do you really want Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott in No10, No11 and the Home Office?

  18. It’s a horrible thing to say, and I fervently don’t wish for it, but the youing need to experience some of the joys that Corbyn will bring before they turn to the right, no matter how charismatic the chosen one is.

  19. I suspect SJW is not a fan of Trump and therefore wouldn’t make the comparison if he were a whole-hearted supporter of Corbyn.

  20. May didn’t win the keys to Downing Street by winning the leadership of the Conservative Party; she was crowned, her last rival being bullied out of running. Through the election campaign ot showed, oh how did it show. The point is there is a generation of politicians that are used to mayoral hustings, leadership debates, even, God help us, rallies. She couldn’t debate, so she tried to hide away. I’m afraI’d she was found out

  21. I really can’t see how May can continue for long. Corbyn can’t possibly maintain a minority government, so I think we’ll get a second election sooner rather than later. May’s successor could limp on with the DUP’s support but it wouldn’t look at all good.

    Since the Tories will be in disarray, with a discredited manifesto and a narrative of linking up with the evuuul-DUP, Corbyn will win the second election, though with luck a certain amount of self-preservation will make it close.

  22. This is an old one but highly apposite. The trouble with political jokes is they get elected.

    I don’t think Trump is a joke but plenty do. Corbyn most certainly is though. Unless the Tories can come up with a credible leader, I think they’re sunk. And I don’t mean Boris, he’s beyond a joke.

    Still cometh the hour cometh the man. There’s a certain man somewhat know in this blog, who is prepared, utterly selflessly of course, to put himself forward, and he wants no credit for it either.

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/06/09/an-attempt-at-calm-reflection/#comment-781298

    It seems but a moment ago we were writing the obituary of the Labour Party. A week really is a long time in politics. Seven weeks an eternity.

  23. “They might have survived this colossal cock-up had it not been for U-turn May showing that she was weak and wobbly.”

    All that was perhaps needed was a few emollient words about extensive consultation, while also presenting the policy as a courageous attempt to deal with the deficit…in the national interest. But, no, she u-turned on her kitten heels.

  24. Ironman

    “May didn’t win the keys to Downing Street by winning the leadership of the Conservative Party; she was crowned, her last rival being bullied out of running. Through the election campaign ot showed, oh how did it show. The point is there is a generation of politicians that are used to mayoral hustings, leadership debates, even, God help us, rallies. She couldn’t debate, so she tried to hide away. I’m afraI’d she was found out”

    Yep, that’s the point of leadership elections.

    We’re only a couple of by-elections away from the next GE so the Tories better get a move on if they expect to go in to it with a new leader or start giving their own MPs regular checkups and pt them on health lifestyle plans. If they don’t they might as well pack up now.

    The only silver lining I can see is that no matter what Brexit we end up with it will be easy for a future Govt to change without the need for a referendum.

    And I’m not sure there’s much UKIP could have done. I suspect even with Nige at the helm their vote would have collapsed and if it hadn’t its likely the Tories would have had even fewer seats and Labour and LibDems more.

    PS I was so hoping the poised dwarf was going to lose, it was close.

  25. “U.S. conservatives have always wanted to believe (desperately so, in fact) that the Republican Party actually believed in the conservative principles they’ve claimed to support.”

    Conservatism is a broad church, just as liberalism or social democracy is. And for good reason: to maximise electoral appeal. For many, feeling self-righteous and ideologically pure in your political sect is no substitute for seeing some of your policies adopted and implemented.

  26. Interested said: “It’s a horrible thing to say, and I fervently don’t wish for it, but the youing need to experience some of the joys that Corbyn will bring before they turn to the right, no matter how charismatic the chosen one is.”

    Problem is they have been told and believe that they have lived through terrible strife via ‘austerity’ and that JC is their saviour.

  27. A chap I know vaguely, Jonny Mercer, quadrupled his majority from 1,000 to 4,000 in a former Labour constituency in Plymouth. I happen to know that he works extremely hard for his constituents. My own MP failed to reply to an email I sent him asking him why he was in favour of Remain despite being a Conservative – he acknowledged it, said he would get back to me and never did despite me sending him a couple of reminders – and he has just lost his seat. (I voted for the cunt, despite him being a cunt, but I am anything but a floating voter.) Tory MPs could try working for the people who vote for them, and even the people who don’t vote for them but live within their area. It’s a crazy idea, but it might just work.

  28. Gareth – yes you make a good point. The sheer untruthfulness of Labour and much of the media is breathtaking. The Tories are liars as well, don’t get me wrong, but they are not Orwellian, they are just shifty.

  29. Dennis, I don’t really know what is going on. I just want to be left alone. Apparently that’s too much to ask.

    And in their heart of hearts, neither Labour nor the Conservatives want you left alone.

    That’s why you need a Trump. The threat you face comes from The State. Who happens to be at the helm of The State at any given time is largely irrelevant to that essential fact.

  30. “The Trump-like figure in UK politics right now is Jeremy Corbyn.”

    It is a really strange situation when the ‘anti-establishment’ figure is a communist advocating massive government with all that entails.

  31. The Trump-like figure in UK politics right now is Jeremy Corbyn.

    How little you understand. Corbyn a true disrupter of the status quo? A foe of the Deep State? Committed to making Britain great again?

    Ha!

    Corbyn is as establishment as they come. He’s a British Bernie Sanders… All posh digs and large expense accounts and lavish pensions. Just another 1%-er claiming to be the champion of the oppressed masses, offering moochers a chance to mooch in exchange for a vote and a salary.

    What is more establishment than that?

  32. After all Trump didn’t stand as an Independent, he needed the legitimacy of the Republican Party to stage his campaign.

    Bullshit. The Republican Party and the Conservative Establishment fought Donald Trump tooth and nail before, during and after the primaries. Everyone from Mitt Romney to John McCain to John Kasich to Mike Bloomberg to Paul Ryan to John Boehner did everything they could to undermine his candidacy, and all those cunts would have been tickled pink – in private – had Hillary Clinton won the presidency. That’s how rotten to the core the Republican Party is.

    The reality of the situation is that the Republican Party needed – and still needs – the legitimacy of Donald Trump to be relevant. They were ready to put up Jeb Bush – Jeb Fucking Bush – as their candidate… And that asshole couldn’t win 5% of the vote in a Republican Party primary!

    Had the Republican Party been left to its own devices, Hillary Clinton would have defeated Jeb Bush in a landslide.

  33. “Corbyn is as establishment as they come. He’s a British Bernie Sanders… All posh digs and large expense accounts and lavish pensions. Just another 1%-er claiming to be the champion of the oppressed masses, offering moochers a chance to mooch in exchange for a vote and a salary.

    What is more establishment than that?”

    Nigel Farage. He’s also able to suckle those lovely EuroTeats.

  34. @Interested, June 9, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    A chap I know vaguely, Jonny Mercer, quadrupled his majority from 1,000 to 4,000 in a former Labour constituency in Plymouth. I happen to know that he works extremely hard for his constituents.

    CCHQ didn’t approve him or support him.

    …he was summoned to a meeting at Tory HQ by two officials. There he was told by one that he needed to be ‘really careful’ and to ‘give up’ on trying to win his seat.

    The official added: ‘Why do you think you should be supported? Who do you think you are? What have you done with your life?’

    Shortly afterwards, Mr Mercer was summoned to a second meeting at Tory HQ in which Sir Lynton Crosby, who is also in charge of the 2017 campaign, told him: ‘You ain’t gonna win, mate.’

    Mr Mercer won his seat in 2015 with a majority of just over 1,000 after organising his own campaign, raising funds by working on a building site and appearing topless in a shower gel advert…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4526360/Army-hero-MP-gagged-Tories.html

    Related:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4525906/Commando-officer-s-gripping-tale-survival.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4548334/Johnny-Mercer-reveals-decided-MP.html

  35. @DtP regardless of whether they needed him, the reality is he needed then. Otherwise he would have run as an independent. My point is that there is no chance that a new party can rise up and become a political force. Any change will have to come from the tanks of the Tories, even if it is an incoming member.

  36. “The Trump-like figure in UK politics right now is Jeremy Corbyn.”

    Don’t be a dick, SJW. Corbyn does not stay up all hours when he’s bored and tweet word for word what he’s just heard on the radio; worse tweeting when he’s been drinking some Trump Bourbon and imagining Putin forcing him to spit, lick then swallow. “I can work with him. Clever guy. Smart cookie.”

    Then accuses everyone as liars. Conv-fucking-fefe.

  37. They should have rebranded as something like UK Common Party and broadened their scope, presented themselves as a party of government and not just as a single-issue party.

    This.
    Never mind their manifesto, the optics of UKIP are that of a single-issue party, and after the referendum was won their perceived purpose was extinguished, their voters jumping ship to vote for Labour or the Tories.

  38. Pcar – yep I know Jonny’s story. I was discussing his candidacy with him before he stood. They treated him badly but he’s since become a bit of a darling.

  39. Well done, well done. Political commentary from someone who doesn’t know that Trump is – rather famously, – entirely teetotal.

  40. Why do supporters of UKIP (hahahaha) think that UKIP represent the anti-the-bastard-Establishment. Do you not think that ‘sovereignty’, ‘border control’, and ‘self-governance’ (whatever any of that means) is straight-up-and-down upper-class elitism?

    Why not have a look at the founders, donators and various agents? They are the elite. UKIP were found out and ditched. It’s not that the ‘job was done’: they had a ‘full’ manifesto cut-out-and-keep quarter page ad with Stately Home Angling Monthly, they were shit on by everybody, everywhere.

    It was a right-wing election to win by a landslide: Art 50, terrorism, successful arms deals, Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, alt-right, nationalism. Weeks of constant negative coverage of Corbyn and his allies – including the BBC and Guardian – and yet UKIP got fisted.

    Ecks is still eating cold tinned food from under his Anderson shelter and scweaming eweeitism.

    Fucking slushrakers.

  41. Tim, what a guy. A true hero.

    Still reinforces the point. Not only is Trump Bourbon made from mexican’s sweat, but he can get pissed on it.

    How else can you explain his gobshite…oh I see, amphetamines.

  42. @JC
    I think it’s you who has been on the Trump Bourbon. I don’t recall anybody here saying UKIP would win even a single seat.

  43. “I think it’s you who has been on the Trump Bourbon. I don’t recall anybody here saying UKIP would win even a single seat.”

    I raise glue to your bourbon.

    I didn’t say that. I said it should have been a right-wing walkover. But UKIP, a fledgling soft-hard (semi-?) right party, lost everything.

    The votes they did get were collected by volunteers persuading old folk to vote by proxy.

  44. “This.
    Never mind their manifesto, the optics of UKIP are that of a single-issue party, and after the referendum was won their perceived purpose was extinguished, their voters jumping ship to vote for Labour or the Tories.”

    Indeed. I commented elsewhere that they should be like the anti lead campaigners. Graciously accept victory and disband themselves.

    They could then legitimately form a new party using the same organisation (haha) if that’s what they wanted.

    The country still needs a classic liberal party, the problem is that the rump of UKIP isn’t it, despite Tim’s best efforts.

  45. DtP, amen.

    Way past time for the serious-minded to give a damn about the Tories.

    It’s not even an ideological purity thing. It’s a trust thing.

    Currently, and for some years past, my greatest poltical sadness is that more people who think like me still don’t get it.

  46. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Indeed. I commented elsewhere that they should be like the anti lead campaigners. Graciously accept victory and disband themselves.
    They could then legitimately form a new party using the same organisation (haha) if that’s what they wanted.
    The country still needs a classic liberal party, the problem is that the rump of UKIP isn’t it, despite Tim’s best efforts.”

    That’s what they should have done, disband in triumph.

    The best way to create a classic liberal party is to use the same momentum tactics on the Tory party. Take over from within and push out the wets.

    The problem being that people who believe in classic liberal values are not ruthless enough to do this.

  47. Jesus Christ – “Why do supporters of UKIP (hahahaha) think that UKIP represent the anti-the-bastard-Establishment. Do you not think that ‘sovereignty’, ‘border control’, and ‘self-governance’ (whatever any of that means) is straight-up-and-down upper-class elitism?”

    No I don’t. The Upper Class is now globalised. They want a borderless world with lots of UN and EU quangos that can give jobs to their spouses and slightly dimmer children.

    Border control is an entirely blue collar policy because only the working class suffers from immigration. Their children get raped. Upper Middle Class twats like you get cheap nannies.

    “Why not have a look at the founders, donators and various agents? They are the elite. UKIP were found out and ditched.”

    UKIP has fought against the Establishment the entire way. They have been the most working class party in British politics.

    “It was a right-wing election to win by a landslide: Art 50, terrorism, successful arms deals, Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, alt-right, nationalism.”

    Funny but I don’t remember a word of that. I remember May insisting that Brexit did not mean border controls, that nothing would be done about terrorism and the problem remains White people not the terrorists.

    “Weeks of constant negative coverage of Corbyn and his allies – including the BBC and Guardian – and yet UKIP got fisted.”

    So amusing. It must be sad to be posting from some other alternate reality.

  48. I see Theo’s written an epitaph to the Tory Party, above.

    “Conservatism is a broad church, just as liberalism or social democracy is. And for good reason: to maximise electoral appeal. For many, feeling self-righteous and ideologically pure in your political sect is no substitute for seeing some of your policies adopted and implemented.”

    Who’s that supposed to appeal to, Theo? Apart from 60somethings sitting in front of their TV in Marks ‘n Sparks cardies? The party needs to be attracting the younger voter. Younger voters are idealistic. They want vision not compromise & the safe option.
    Without a new generation of supporters, the Tory Party will fade & die.
    Correction.
    The Tory Party is fading & dying.

  49. “Why we Ukippers should be ashamed of ourselves”

    I’ll tell you who should feel ashamed of themselves — Londoners. Londoners who voted in Diane Abbot with 75% of the vote days after she had proved herself to be incompetent. Days after London had seen 8 people killed by Islamic terrorists. And still they turned out in their droves to vote for this scumbag.

    I lived in London for a while, and while I loved it in many ways, it was noticable that a lot of the people were selfish, self-righteous leftists. The sort of people who didn’t really give a toss about Muslims killing people as long as they avoided it. Laughing and joking at a nearby pub like Owen Jones and his mates because there wasn’t much chance of them getting killed now.

  50. Tel,

    There are 3 types of Londoners:

    1) the extremely wealthy, who, as mentioned above, don’t actually care whether the UK leaves the EU or not.

    2) the people who can’t afford to live in London but still do because everyone else pays for it

    3) people like the commenters on Tim Worstall’s blog.

    1 and 3 did not vote for Abbott, and 2 is a lost cause anyway.

  51. How little you understand…Corbyn is as establishment as they come

    The establishment is opposed to both Corbyn and Trump, for the good reason that neither is equipped to lead their country. I’m not part of the establishment, but I wouldn’t hire either of them to run my whelk stall: Corbyn because I’d expect him to lose the assets, Trump because he’d find a way to help himself to them.

    But they are anti-establishment only to the extent that the establishment seeks to frustrate them. Trump’s not draining the swamp, he’s wallowing in it.

  52. “I’ll tell you who should feel ashamed of themselves — Londoners”

    Wait til they get a concrete idea of what LVT means for them personally, they will do a sharp right turn then. Average house price in London is over £650k, vs under £200k outside the capital. So LVT means much bigger bills for the SE once property taxes are national not local.

  53. SJW–As a good leftist you shouldn’t be running a whelk stall anyway.

    The soviets would have executed you for that.

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