Isn’t this just a fabulous argument?

The appalling destruction of Grenfell Tower and the lives of so many who lived there has exposed what society, in its heart, already knows: our housing cannot continue to be subject to the market’s desires, needs or fluctuations. If some housing is regarded as being more valuable, more desirable, corners will always be cut in the places where there is less financial return. The same goes for people: the most disadvantaged always suffer most from the mistakes of the powerful.

Council housing fuck up. Therefore all housing must be by the State.

Whut?

26 comments on “Isn’t this just a fabulous argument?

  1. I can’t find the comments on the Guardian article.

    I don’t understand why not. comment is free surely?

  2. The privileged can buy their safety – high-rise dwellers and the poor are condemned to second-class status

    So stop being poor, you lazy bums.

  3. @TIS
    “The privileged can buy their safety – high-rise dwellers and the poor are condemned to second-class status”

    From what I’ve read there were privately-owned flats in there too, so even the premise is false.

  4. TIS

    “So stop being poor, you lazy bums.”

    I don’t think life is as simple as that. And even if I’m wrong, sufficient numbers agree with me that calling poor people lazy bums is an unlikely route to electoral success.

    Timmy likes the idea of a universal basic income, enough to pay for a basic standard of living.

    I suspect one of the benefits of such a system (intended anyway, don’t know if it would actually play out bearing in find people like their freebies and sense of security) is that we could remove most other “safety net” provisions. So for example John Square’s cunning plan to largely replace social housing by the market becomes feasible.

    If people had their own money and could choose where to spend it, how many would have volunteered for such towers, I wonder?

    (Though I’m not sure how this works in countries with market-based tower block living – once a block becomes an undesirable low-rent kinda place, how can it be turned around? Where does the capital for modernisation come from? Though ironically it may well turn out that it was the refurbishment that led to the death toll here, ultimately decrepitude can prove fatal too.)

  5. MBE – sufficient numbers agree with me that calling poor people lazy bums is an unlikely route to electoral success.

    Good job I’m not running for office. Not that it matters anyway, they’d vote for Pennywise the Dancing Clown if he put on a red rosette.

    The Lord hears the cry of the poor. Everyone else is tired of their endless whingeing.

    UBI would be an absolute, unqualified disaster in this country, effectively formalising the alternate lifestyle of not working for a living as a hyoomin right, and turning every election into an auction for MOAR UBI.

    once a block becomes an undesirable low-rent kinda place, how can it be turned around

    Get rid of Third World residents whose Third World mentality leads them to do retarded Third World shit like have dodgy appliances in the first place, then leg it after they catch fire.

    This sort of easily preventable tragedy happens all the time in Africa. Why would we expect to import swathes of Africa and see different results?

  6. > once a block becomes an undesirable low-rent kinda place, how can it be turned around

    By kicking out the people who make it undesirable. Either slowly kick them out through rising prices (the British way), or throw them in prison for minor offences (the American way: zero tolerance).

    > If people had their own money and could choose where to spend it, how many would have volunteered for such towers, I wonder?

    Plenty of tenants did risk their own money. Look at the Italian couple who rented an ex-council flat in the tower, no doubt paid for out of their own earnings. I’ve rented ex-council myself in the past though never high-rise. A couple of my friends used to rent an high-rise ex-council flat; despite having a spacious flat with stunning views and in an excellent location, they eventually moved out due to persistent anti-social behaviour from the remaining council tenants in the building.

  7. “or throw them in prison for minor offences (the American way: zero tolerance).”

    Curious. I don’t see that happening. I see drug offenses as being ridiculous, but that is not equal to “minor offences,” is it?

  8. High-rise should be limited to luxury flats for the rich and student accommodation for the young who can climb umpteen flights of stairs if the lifts break down.

  9. Gamecock,

    > but that is not equal to “minor offences”

    Doesn’t matter what you class as a minor offence. The point is that by increasing the punishment levels at the low end of the scale, e.g. a $50 fine becomes $400 (with prison for non-payment), or an overnight spell in jail becomes a month in prison, you’ll soon sweep the troublemakers off the streets.

    I say it’s the American way because the NYPD was famous for its zero tolerance programme in the 1990s.

  10. “Get rid of Third World residents whose Third World mentality leads them to do retarded Third World shit like have dodgy appliances in the first place, then leg it after they catch fire.”

    As I understand it, the guy whose fridge blew up was a) white and b) it was one of the new ones filled with what is effectively butane and have exploded creating fireballs in other places, so not some antiquated death trap with bare wires and no insulation.

    So you can put the very cause of the fire down to eco freakery as well as the catastrophic consequences.

  11. And zero tolerance works. Am writing this from singapore…..

    If you allow minor offences to be ignored then people won’t care about committing them. They are no longer offences but normal behaviour. Lots of people have commented how young men were kept in line by older hands in the 50s and before. That stopped. And look where we end up.

  12. Jim – Dunno. I heard it was an Ethiop who promptly legged it without phoning 999 (tho to be fair he was kind enough to alert one of the neighbours, and someone phoned the firemen a few minutes later).

    Haven’t heard it was one of them modern eco-friendly explodey fridges.

  13. “If some housing is regarded as being more valuable, more desirable, corners will always be cut in the places where there is less financial return.”

    Anyone want to bet this numpty values her home rather more than a flat in Grenfell?

    “The privileged can buy their safety – high-rise dwellers and the poor are condemned to second-class status”

    Well, the alternative is to condemn ‘second class’ housing until we can replace it with better, and condemn the occupants to homelessness in the meantime. Your choice, luv.

  14. Francis Urquhart would have known what to do about this tragedy. Theresa May needs to go.

  15. @john77

    “High-rise should be limited to luxury flats for the rich and student accommodation for the young who can climb umpteen flights of stairs if the lifts breaks down”

    This is exactly the mentality results in London & other British cities being such shit holes to live in. That if you’re not pseudo middle class living in a box on a postage stamp you’re somehow not one of us.
    High density, high rise housing is the norm in cities across the rest of the world. They manage to do it quite successfully. Why not the Brits?

  16. To be honest, Julia, there don’t seem to be many Brits left in London these days. And one fewer thanks to me.
    Posted from my penthouse apartment high over this Spanish city, with a wonderful view of the Med. And, if reach it, I will sleep soundly in my bed tonight untroubled by thoughts of fire risks.

  17. “Fridge man is Ethiopian, according to the Daily Mail.”

    My bad, I’d read somewhere he was white.

  18. “The appalling destruction of Grenfell Tower demands we have more gun control.”

    Well, considering the unrest in Kensington (not a combination of words one would hear veryoften), imagine them with AK47s.

  19. Well, there you go, JC.

    ‘The appalling destruction of Grenfell Tower and the lives of so many who lived there’ _____________________.

    Just fill in whatever Lefty cause you can get that might fit. Even if you have to use a shoe horn. The Left couldn’t fvcking care less about the destruction. Their concern is how can they use it to advance their causes, no matter how improbable.

  20. @ BiS
    You have got it 180 degrees wrong which is why we have disasters like this.
    The rich have flats that are safe and multiple lifts so that if one breaks down they can use an alternative
    When I was 30 I lived in a fifth floor flat and worked on the fifth floor of an office block – no problem (if the lift wasn’t waiting for me on the ground floor I could get up quicker by walkling than bvy waiting forthe lift) but I wasn’t a single parent with two children under five.

    I HAVE TOLD YOU WHY the UK system fails – try reading my previous post.

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