Hypergamy’s a bitch

Researchers found that in more than 90 per cent of cases, the women were attempting to buy extra time because they could not find a partner to settle down with, amid a “dearth of educated men”.

Experts said the research bust the myth that “selfish career women” were choosing to out their fertility on ice in a bid to put their careers first.

They said sweeping social changes meant that many professional women now struggled to find a partner that felt like an equal match.

Higher social status, whatever it is that the society defines as that, is the way men get laid. This ‘ere is the flip side of that. You’ll just have to lower your sights ladies.

69 comments on “Hypergamy’s a bitch

  1. I wonder, perhaps if we did something to improve the academic performance of boys we’d not just get better educated boys buy happier women too.

  2. Just goes to show you have to be careful what you wish for.

    You might get it, and some….

    Second order effects etc.

  3. and not one mention in that article of age affecting value of women in mating, that what men want is hotness and youth. “I’ll freeze my eggs because I can’t get a hot rich man right now” as if you’ll get one in 10 years time.

    Seems to me that maybe women using university for assortive mating probably isn’t a good idea. Men don’t want to commit at 21. They’ve still got a few more years. But your stock is going down in value for those 3 years as a woman. You could go to work and be mixing with 25-28 year old men who would rather like to be banging you, and are at the settling down stage.

  4. Educated 37 year old women can’t find husbands, whereas uneducated 22 years old women can. I don’t think education is the problem here.

  5. I love the way that things like this are put down to social constructs, Teh Patriarchiez etc.

    But it goes far further back than that – it’s Mr. Darwin exerting himself.

  6. You’ll just have to lower your sights ladies.

    Which is just what the inherent nature of hypergamy rejects and if they do “settle” for someone to fulfill their biological imperative for children, woe betide that poor schmuck, because she will make his life a living hell before she eventually pulls the plug.

    This is nothing new, Caesar Augustus was well known for railing against the same problem, when he passed the “Lex Julia de maritandis ordinibus” (Julian Marriage Laws) in 18 AD, which penalised “celibacy” and young widows who refused remarriage.

    This was also the reason for marrying children off when they were in their late teens as well as social disapproval of eternal bachelors. The attempt being to ensure that the best use was made of a woman’s beauty and fertility in youth.

    To suddenly express surprise that reality cannot be denied is the worst possible combination of arrogance, ignorance and stupidity.

  7. “the worst possible combination of arrogance, ignorance and stupidity” should be the textbook definition of:

    1. Post-modernism
    2. Marxism
    3. Feminism
    4. The Spudmeister
    5. The bloke who designed my garden shredder

    (pick one!)

  8. ” British fertility experts said the gulf was “terrifying”. Dr Gillian Lockwood, executive director, IVI said: “It exacerbates the problem of men not wanting to ‘settle down’ and start a family until it’s almost too late for the woman to conceive naturally.

    And if she insists, he’s quite likely to leave for a younger woman whose biological clock isn’t ticking quite so loudly.” ”

    May I gently suggest (and gently is probably the way to approach this one) that “terrifying” rather depends on one’s own perspective doesn’t it.

  9. I completely buy this analysis

    I am at that dad dancing age when my attractiveness should all be sepia tinted and slightly embellished memories. However, I have a couple of Facebook friends who are attractive/ very attractive single women in their twenties. They are genuine and nice people. They should should have no problems at all finding boyfriends -by the dozen. But there they are, sending me messages and pitcures of their girls weekends in various European cities. And there are their friends, all attractive and wasn’t women in their twenties. A chance encounter on a night out explained it all: the girl I met could spend her evening introducing this middle-aged married man to her friends, or she could “lower her sights” and get chatted up by the inarticulate idiots who made up the majority of young males on the scene. I honestly think she took the right option and, no, that is not a self-serving judgement

  10. A single mother in her 30s and 40s is going to raise her children very differently to one in her teens and 20s: if she has waited she is not going to blow it by allowing them to become undisciplined unaspirational yobs, more likely overachievers and good citizens. If she has a good career she will be hunting for good genetic not husband material.

  11. Has somebody already written an article on the market theory of spouse finding/keeping?

  12. “A dearth of educated men”

    Or a glut of sensible men who don’t want to marry a ball-breaker and have her coldly steal the house when she gets bored of them?

  13. Bloke in Swindon,

    To a certain point the age thing is slightly moot, in that the biological signals of aging in women are being held back more, mostly by not having to do back-breaking domestic labour – note that not looking after children is still a way for women to be more attractive (other than to their partners, who have a skin in that game) – but also by modern technologies such as skincare and exercise (yes, those are technologies). Or to put it in simple terms, women can stay hot far longer now, especially if they are wealthy and have the time.

    Men may be preconditioned to go for the younger woman, but they will happily settle for an attractive if older woman if she is attractive and attainable – men also have the status issue in mating remember.

  14. It isn’t hypergamy, it’s an inability to grasp that material success doesn’t add to a woman’s SMV, if anything it detracts from it.

    And, as Ironman’s young friends haven’t quite figured out, all you are going to meet on a “night out” are a bunch of PUA wannabes. The guys you actually want to meet are probably working late at an office somewhere.

  15. Men may be preconditioned to go for the younger woman, but they will happily settle for an attractive if older woman if she is attractive and attainable – men also have the status issue in mating remember.

    Indeed. I know a few guys – myself included – who have gone for slightly older women on the grounds that they still look good and aren’t complete fucking headcases. Not being a complete fucking headcase can hide a multitude of sins, but alas finding a single woman over 30 who is not a complete fucking headcase is nigh-on impossible.

  16. The guys you actually want to meet are probably working late at an office somewhere.

    Or in the arms of a smart woman who caught hold of them and isn’t letting go.

  17. I personally think we should have 1.5 year degrees. No hols, 9 to 5, possibly work on Saturday.
    pros- cheaper for grads and drop outs too, money and timewise. People enter the workforce and the baby market at a younger age.

  18. Why is there a shortage of young men going to college?
    Could it be the prejudice of female schoolteachers?

  19. Have met a number of females at uni who were there for their M.R.S degree.
    Not all older women are off their heads, have known some very nice ones.
    And a few nutters. But they were nutters in their early 20s and remain nutters in their mid 30s.
    Even one who, if there ever was a poster for promoting domestic violence she’d be on it.

    In my experience the teens and 20s women want fun, want exotic holidays, want to party, want to travel. The career is great and all but few push the envelope enough to go high management – and those often do so at the expense of relationships. 18 hour days on work stuff will do that.

    I’m married to an older woman. We don’t have kids but that’s down to both of us, not one of us. She is very attractive and still gets attention from men at the age of 46, can still pass for being in the early 30s. Genetically she will always look younger than she is, her dad 40 years my senior looked like my slightly older brother when he was in his late 70s.

    From what female friends tell me (me being a safe, unattractive married man they’ve known for years) there are way too many men who were idiots when younger and remain idiots, nothing forcing them to grow up.

  20. Why is there a shortage of young men going to college?

    Not really, just that the premium of a college degree has been eroded and modern universities have become somewhat toxic, anti-male establishments.

    Given that there is more job security as a plumber or electrician than as computer programmer or chemist it all adds up to create a downwards push on male college enrollment, which is exacerbated in the US by scholarship opportunities which exist for women and minorities, but not for white males.

    I expect to see it get a lot worse before there is any possibility of change.

  21. Given that there is more job security as a plumber or electrician than as computer programmer or chemist it all adds up to create a downwards push on male college enrollment, which is exacerbated in the US by scholarship opportunities which exist for women and minorities, but not for white males.

    That’s exactly what I wrote about here. Corporations are basically telling men they’re not wanted, and the smart ones will find something else to do.

  22. This has nothing to do with ‘education’ and everything to do with £££. Women don’t really care what a man does, as long as he brings in the dollar. No dollar = no woman, eventually. But articles like this can’t put it so bluntly, so they call it ‘education’ instead.

  23. Adding in the problem that all employers demand the top 10% of the population, instead of the top 10% of what they can get, resulting in the bottom 90% being thrown out, and 90% of vacancies unfilled, resulting in thcreeeeems for foreign imports “because there’s no local skills!!!”

  24. “In total 80 per cent of the school workforce are female.”

    What do you expect when the prevailing culture is that any man who is interested in being around children is a peedo?

  25. This has nothing to do with ‘education’ and everything to do with £££. Women don’t really care what a man does, as long as he brings in the dollar. No dollar = no woman, eventually. But articles like this can’t put it so bluntly, so they call it ‘education’ instead.

    Not really.

    You put the guy that owns the plumbing business and the guy who’s a middle manager in large corporate and all else being equal it will be the middle manager that gets the girl, despite the fact that the plumbing guy earns more money.

    This is about status rather than money (although money will be why she divorces him) and in that game a blue collar guy who works with his hands is trumped by the white collar guy with the college degree who works in an office.

  26. ‘They said sweeping social changes meant that many professional women now struggled to find a partner that felt like an equal match.’

    It’s not the social changes, per se. It’s that professional women have developed EGOs to match their positions. Which men find ridiculous and off-putting.

    The feminist movement exists to boost the ego of females. How’s that working out for you, ladies?

  27. Roué le Jour,

    > The guys you actually want to meet are probably working late at an office somewhere.

    Nope. Women expect men to make the effort to leave the office and try to chat them up. Hardly unreasonable. (Chateau Heartiste has plenty to say on this matter.)

    John Galt,

    > it will be the middle manager that gets the girl, despite the fact that the plumbing guy earns more money

    Not sure about that. The blue-collar worker will be in better physical shape, and that counts for something. In the past they were at a disadvantage because the self-employed couldn’t get mortgages; but that’s no longer so much of an isuse.

    Martin,

    > there are way too many men who were idiots when younger and remain idiots, nothing forcing them to grow up.

    What forced them to grow up in the past? Their girlfriends, then their wives and children. Not sure why this pattern hasn’t held.

  28. @Martin:

    “Genetically she will always look younger than she is,”

    Genetically, you’re both dead ends if you don’t have kids, and as Mark Steyn said: ” The future belongs to those who show up for it.”

  29. What are the odds that the State will, in 10 years time, be paying women to have children at £100,000 a pop, or whatever is enough to allow a single woman to raise a child whilst still being able to afford cat food? Maybe it will be paid for by a ‘man’s tax’. Would be VERY interesting to see what their choice of sperm donor says about what they really think about ‘diversity’. Bring on the new Viking age.

  30. And, as was mentioned, I think the problem will eventually sort itself out as women remain ‘hot’ and also fertile for longer due to improvements in medicine and health. This may mean that higher quality men have more marriages, or, at least, children by different mothers and lower quality men get even less action.

    Hallowed Be, great idea – not sure about the odds of it happening though. I would add however that there is only so much learning you can do in a certain amount of time. The brain needs rest. The answer may be to do less in less rather than the same amount in less.

  31. What are the odds that the State will, in 10 years time, be paying women to have children at £100,000 a pop, or whatever is enough to allow a single woman to raise a child whilst still being able to afford cat food?

    You’ve pretty much just described the UK welfare state as it exists today.

    Maybe it will be paid for by a ‘man’s tax’.

    In the last tax year men paid £92 billion in income tax whereas women paid £36.8 billion, which is 60% less.”

    Harriett Baldwin MP, West Worcestershire, House of Commons, February 8, 2013

    Since men already pay the majority of tax and women are overwhelmingly the recipients, it would be hard to say that we don’t have a “man tax” today, in fact we have had a “man tax” since the very beginning of taxation in ancient times.

  32. It’s not the social changes, per se. It’s that professional women have developed EGOs to match their positions. Which men find ridiculous and off-putting.

    As I said here:

    About a year ago I met a corporate high-flyer here in Paris, a well-educated, smart Frenchwoman who was also rather attractive. She was single, and explained a lot of men were so put off by her lofty status in a giant, well-known corporation that she was reluctant to tell them what she did. I assumed this was down to some innate desire of men to be of higher status than their partner, but once I got to know her I changed my mind on that. Basically, the character traits required to gain the high ranks of a modern corporation are not the ones a man wants to see in a partner, i.e. a ball-breaker.

    This might be as much about men being turned off by the personalities of high-flying women as women not wanting to date less-educated men. I suspect it is both, working simultaneously.

  33. LPT

    Spot on. That’s exactly what the Gender pay gap discussion is aiming for.

    Men to pay MOAR tax so that women can outsource the raising of their kids.

  34. “You put the guy that owns the plumbing business and the guy who’s a middle manager in large corporate and all else being equal it will be the middle manager that gets the girl, despite the fact that the plumbing guy earns more money.”

    The guy with the key to the corporate bathroom may get the girl first, or the pick of the crop, but the self employed guy coining it in won’t be far behind. Because £££. He’ll be way ahead of bog standard office wallah and other men further down the income chain, even if they do work in offices. Tradespeople can earn some serious coin nowadays, and women are noticing.

  35. Random thought.
    One of the many ways a man can exhibit status is to be a rebel, to flout the norms of society and at least appear to get away with it. Of course the rebel is irresponsible, but girls go for that anyway.
    This gives boys an incentive to act the rebel, and not learn responsibly. Hence a too many of them fail to grow up.
    Which becomes a problem when they are trying to attract women who have grown out of that.
    Shorter version, if girls rejected irresponsible boys those boys would grow up fast.

  36. > Tradespeople can earn some serious coin nowadays

    More importantly, the banks let them have mortgages these days. That didn’t used to be so.

  37. John G
    ” it will be the middle manager that gets the girl, despite the fact that the plumbing guy earns more money”

    A highish manager in an office may have more status for degree educated career women, but those builders and plumbers done good aren’t interested in those girls for making homes and babies with. From those i know they usually married a mate of theirs younger sister.

    LPT –

    “Only do so much learning you can do in a certain amount of time” – yes but it’s funny how the time for the degree was set a very long time ago, and hasn’t seemed to change despite a million different subjects, learning aids, resources etc.

    It’s high time for that to be disrupted. The high performers are the quick learners. Plenty of people take double degrees. Yes, they are the elite but to what extent is it their ability to get up and do work of learning without prompting or their physical ability to absorb, understand and retain knowledge.
    I’d say the motivation to get up and do the work has a very big impact and that can be improved upon to a large extent by applying pressure and expectations. So if you do have a 1.5 year degree the drop out rate would be higher as you simply say off you go to people who don’t come up to snuff. And you can do that with a clear conscience because you have a) saved them time and money of those who do get kicked or leave b) improved the marginal performance of everybody else.
    Yeah it’s likely only to be tried once the greater problem of the objective measurement of educational achievement is solved. Of course people could do a 1.5 year degree. when A double degrees is just that. But somehow doing twice as much in the standard time is impressive but doing the same amount in half the time doesn’t translate to the same.

  38. Andrew M
    You’re missing my point. People meet their life partner through family, friends or work. What you find on a night out is a shag. It’s pointless saying all the guys you meet in bars are jerks, of course they are! That’s what bars and clubs are for, for jerks and sluts to hook up. You’ve no more chance of finding a husband in a bar than finding a wife in a strip club.

  39. You’ve no more chance of finding a husband in a bar than finding a wife in a strip club.

    Alas, this should be written on the landing cards at Thai airports.

  40. Hallowed Be,

    I did my first degree (a BEng(Hons) ) the usual ways, three years at university, and even engineering – one of the busier courses – didn’t feel like much of a stretch. Long holidays and lots of spare time… I didn’t do very well in terms of final mark in large part because it seemed so lackadaisical (I’d come off my A-levels, which were hard work, and then spent a year in industry…)

    I did a MSc through work about fifteen years ago, the first year being six one-week taught modules (9 to 5 teaching Mon-Fri) interspersed with assignments and examinations, and the second year being 25,000 words of dissertation in your own time. Got through that, with a bit of effort, and enjoyed the process too.

    I’ve just finished a MA that was entirely own-time distance learning: over three years, it was four modules[1] each of twelve weeks, each with a series of online discussions and presentations plus three essays for assessment, and then a year to write and submit your dissertation. Paid for it myself (bargain at £4k), had to sweat a bit to fit it all around the day job, but enjoyed it and learned a lot.

    I’m deeply unconvinced that the standard model of three or four years of thirty weeks at university, attending a dozen or less hours of teaching each week, is the best let alone the only way to do it, even if it offers lots of opportunity for social activity of various sorts…

    [1] I got a bye on one module for being a practicing professional in the field, which gave me a head start on the dissertation…

  41. They’re also doing it for substantially less. Hurrah for outsourcing!

  42. “yes but it’s funny how the time for the degree was set a very long time ago, and hasn’t seemed to change despite a million different subjects, learning aids, resources etc.”

    That was basically my thought at University back in the 80s. It took three years of boredom until my CompSci course got to something interesting, I could have done with being able to do the first two years in one semester.

    I’ve looked at today’s CompSci courses, and they’re three years of teaching you to pee standing up.

  43. Jason: it was several years after univerisity that I discovered I should have done an *Engineering* course, not a BSc. The problem was (and still is) is that “”real”” computing university courses are called “electrical engineering”. Which is completely /not/ what you expect a *computing* course to be called, and certainly not what my school careers advisor guided me into.

  44. @Hallowed Be
    “I personally think we should have 1.5 year degrees. No hols, 9 to 5, possibly work on Saturday.
    pros- cheaper for grads and drop outs too, money and timewise. People enter the workforce and the baby market at a younger age.”
    Good idea although I think you need a little time off.
    Fertility really declines with age, I know a Catholic woman (and she was type of believes in their teachings and not in the UK) who didn’t get pregnant at all after 32 despite being married and not believing in contraception.
    However as she had already had 6 children, it was more of an answer to prayer then making her want to pray more. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future the problems people have now days makes them children today try at a younger age.

  45. @John Galt

    I don’t really care that I pay more income tax than my wife and providing I pay enough for the two of us neither should any one else (I do), it would be more interesting to compare single men to single women.

  46. John Galt. Men (especially white men) never pay enough, let alone moar, tax but you make good points and once the day comes when the ‘man tax’ is being voted on I shall write my MP and make exactly the same points that you are making now. If we all do the same thing the bill is sure to be defeated.

    In seriousness though, increased taxes on men are more likely to be through stealth.

    “Alas, this should be written on the landing cards at Thai airports.”

    Wait, I went to Thailand with my wife and my baby. Was I doing Thailand the wrong way? Or put another way, was that what I was missing?

  47. I’ve known a number of single women who reached their 40s facing a life of solitary confinement and who subsequently married someone they’d have kicked into touch a decade earlier. The men they married were all of a similar disposition. The marriages were all successful.

  48. Maybe it’s just me, but I like successful women. I don’t like smug women.

    ‘She was single, and explained a lot of men were so put off by her lofty status in a giant, well-known corporation’

    I submit she has misread her situation: no one cares what she does. They care that she is a pompous ass.

  49. Hallowed Be,

    “I personally think we should have 1.5 year degrees. No hols, 9 to 5, possibly work on Saturday.
    pros- cheaper for grads and drop outs too, money and timewise. People enter the workforce and the baby market at a younger age.”

    I listened to a dire interview on Today this morning about the costs of university education and student debts and found myself, not for the first time, shouting at the car radio “shorten the fucking course”.

    Same goes for the school year, it’s madness that our education program is based on the needs of agriculture. Mrs BiND taught reception and 1st year and was a specialist reading teacher. She reckoned the long hols always affected the kids with the less bright suffering the most.

  50. Rules of dating according to Mr. Pants.

    1) No fatties.
    2) No tatts.
    3) No Labour voters.
    4) No career bitches.
    5) If you turn up on a date wearing flip-flops I will get pissed and vomit in your hair!

    Simples – and, yes there is a Mrs.Pants and yes, she knows the rules!

  51. John Galt,

    “Given that there is more job security as a plumber or electrician than as computer programmer or chemist it all adds up to create a downwards push on male college enrollment, which is exacerbated in the US by scholarship opportunities which exist for women and minorities, but not for white males.”

    There’s tons of security for computer programmers. It’s still a very good job to go into. If you’ve got a couple of years in something even fairly recent and get made redundant, you can pretty much walk into another job.

    And I’d say this: you can do it without a degree. I know someone who got his Java certs and then got a junior programmer job with it. Cost him less than £500 + his time.

  52. BiND,

    “I listened to a dire interview on Today this morning about the costs of university education and student debts and found myself, not for the first time, shouting at the car radio “shorten the fucking course”.”

    I’m working with someone who did a marketing diploma in Australia and it was done more intensively: 9-6 day, 5 days a week, extra work on weekends, only a few weeks off for the year, and they packed a load in and removed a lot of chaff.

    I took a look at a lot of degree courses in comp sci, and there’s a lot of filler. A good comp sci course does need a couple of years I think, but they probably don’t need 3.

    (and even then, most of what companies need to get a junior programmer going takes about 6 months).

  53. Once again Timmi is pretending that he knows about a subject about which he has had absolutely no experience.

    For a man who can’t get it up or form relationships with women, you lot fall for it hook etc.

  54. Anecdata alert! In most of the movies I’ve seen the plumber is the one who ends up getting the girl. I couldn’t say whether they stay together long enough to raise a family as I never quite make the end of the film but things usually appear to be heading in that direction….

  55. These women are victims of feminism, an ideology that makes the false assumption that men and women are essentially the same. They thus assume that, like men, if they climb the work hierarchy, they will become more desirable to the opposite sex. In reality, women are judged according to youth, slenderness, beauty, chastity and fidelity. A woman who has climbed the work hierarchy would associate with high ranked men, so be perceived by men as being potentially unfaithful, and thus a poor long-term partner.

  56. Swindon,

    I did the Royal Signals Foreman of Signals course in 18 months and that included a load of pure military stuff. At the time it was an HND because they wouldn’t allow the Other Ranks to have degrees.

    During that time a niece was doing a Computer Science degree and came to stay with us a lot. She reckoned we did more and to about the same standard as she was doing in 3 years.

    Maybe STEM does need a bit more time than arts degrees but listening to my son’s generation I can’t believe anyone else needs more than 18 months. The added advantage is that it will teach them that life isn’t a beach paid for by someone else and that you have to work hard to get a decent job and salary.

  57. “In reality, women are judged according to youth, slenderness, beauty, chastity and fidelity.”

    Is this serious?

    ” A woman who has climbed the work hierarchy would associate with high ranked men, so be perceived by men as being potentially unfaithful, and thus a poor long-term partner.”

    That’s some fish supper you have on your shoulder, little man.

  58. JC –

    Is this serious?

    As this is predominantly an economics blog, I would answer ‘yes’ based on Revealed Preference Theory.

  59. This reminds me . . . .

    So a Cardinal rushes into the Pope’s office, conspicuously interrupting him.

    “Your Immanence, I have the most wonderful and the most terrible news!”

    “What is the good news?”

    “Jesus Christ, our Savior, HAS RETURNED TO EARTH !!!”

    “OH, MY! . . . Uhhh . . . what could possibly be bad news?”

    “He showed up in Salt Lake City!”

    Or . . . on Tim Worstall’s blog.

  60. “There’s tons of security for computer programmers.”

    If they let you in. I’ve been programming 30+ years, but also have 30+ years of rejected job applications.

    “I know someone who got his Java certs and then got a junior programmer job with it.”

    How???? All and every junior entry position requires a zillion years’ commercial experience.

  61. Yes, I was shouting at that Today report as well, particularly where they said “poor graduates will be paying for 30 years sob sob”. If they’re poor, then by definition they won’t be paying very much, and if they’ve been paying for 30 years, again, they won’t be paying very much, is an extra penny on your income tax for 30 years really such a burden? Three quid a week when you’re on 25 grand? And if you’re a rich graduate you’ll only be paying for a short time because by definition because you’re rich you pay more for a shorter time.

    And *really* poor graduates won’t be paying anything at all.

  62. “There’s tons of security for computer programmers.”

    A programming career is about twenty years or so, (less for games programmers) then you get made redundant and become a minicab driver. The trick is to move up before that happens. It’s a bitch if you like coding and are good at it.

  63. I submit she has misread her situation: no one cares what she does. They care that she is a pompous ass.

    Exactly, although they didn’t even wait to find out she was a pompous ass: they knew by virtue of her position, because none other than a pompous ass could attain it.

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