Guardian commentators, eh?

What we need is Jeremy Corbyn. Only Jeremy can end austerity and the myth of trickle down economics. By increasing taxes on corporations and people earning over £80,000 per year he will ensure a fair allocation of money, great public services and high quality jobs.

If more people voted for Jeremy then we would not see these problems in our cities. Only by taxing the rich and the corporations can we ensure a prosperous future for our cities.

Need to run that one past Poe’s Law don’t we?

Especially as the original piece is about Detroit.

37 comments on “Guardian commentators, eh?

  1. If more people voted for Jeremy then we would not see these problems in our cities.
    Isn’t agriculture returning to Detroit as blocks of empty houses are razed? The population has shrunk so much is it still a city?

  2. I can’t find that excerpt in the linked article – was it in one of the comments?

    Amongst Detroit’s many problems, the city’s property taxes are still based on old (higher) valuations. Until that is fixed, nobody would want to invest there.

  3. Why £80,000 particularly? Why not £75,000 or £100,000 or £67,281.33?

    The arrogance of these arseholes is breathtaking. Just who granted them the right to make such arbitrary proclamations about the life and welfare of people they will never meet – and about companies on whose boards they will never sit, or whose shares they will never own?

  4. And what do they think will happen once they’ve taxed “the rich” and “teh corporationses” out of existence?

    “Oh, but we meant well!” No you effing didn’t. You convinced yourself you did, but you didn’t.

  5. What we need is Jeremy Corbyn.

    Sadly, I think that is correct. People have forgotten the malicious uselessness of socialism. Only a Corbyn government will teach them.

    Perhaps it will also teach the Tories that being a marginally posher version of New Labour is not the way forward.

  6. MC–The issue is that if Corbyn and McNasty ever got In they will never allow themselves to be voted out.

    Even bringing in 2-3-4 million beardboys to vote for them might not be enough to keep their vote up after 5 years of Jezza actually on the job. But this is hardline Marxist scum we are speaking of. Their aim is irreversible transformation (into a shithole) . The “serves you right/teach you a lesson” is no good. Unless you want a millions dead soviet/chicom style lesson.

  7. “People have forgotten the malicious uselessness of socialism. Only a Corbyn government will teach them.”

    It would be quick, for sure. Corbyn’s talked himself into a corner. He’s promised the earth, and said no-one under £80k income will have to pay for it. Thats virtually everyone, in absolute numbers terms. So there is no way he can raise the taxes enough to get enough extra revenue for all the pledged spending.

    We all know that the wealthy are able to legally avoid taxes, and if push comes to shove are able to fuck off elsewhere a lot easier these days than the 1960s and 70s. Similarly corporations aren’t stupid and can arrange their affairs such that they pay little tax in the UK if they wanted to. Many big companies could leave the UK and just pay tax on UK profits rather than worldwide ones. Revenues would be stagnant at best, dropping even.

    So it would all unravel very quickly. Taxes would go up on the ‘the rich’, revenue wouldn’t rise by very much, if at all. The spending would go ahead anyway, the deficit would explode, the pound would drop through the floor, inflation would start to rise. They would then face either a) having to cut the spending or b) raise taxes on the sub £80k public. Either of which are electoral suicide.

    Small state Tories (if such things exist any more) need to be positioning themselves for this – they need to be the ones crying in the wilderness for a radical cutback of the State now, so that when Corbynism goes belly up they are the ones given the mandate to implement their solution.

  8. People have forgotten the malicious uselessness of socialism.

    That’s because New Labour called it something else and millions of people benefited. The armies of useless public sector employees Brown created are hardly free-market capitalists, are they?

  9. @TN – Good point; but the depredations of Corbyn and McDonnell would be of a different magnitude.

  10. Jim–Correct–which is why Corbog & McNasty won’t allow themselves to be voted out.

    They will move to secure enough firepower–Venezuela-style–to ensure that.

    Don’t be kidding yourselves with the “We’re special–that can’t happen here” crap.

  11. Jim,

    > and if push comes to shove are able to fuck off elsewhere a lot easier these days than the 1960s and 70s

    A lot of our high earners came from foreign parts in the first place. If Britain gets uncomfortable, they have fewer ties to keep them here.

  12. @ MC
    Yes: Denis “Pips Squeak” Healey had to call in the IMF when he had his back to a cliff-edge, but with a floating currency McDonnell can simply welch on his debts like the Peronists in Argentina

  13. “which is why Corbog & McNasty won’t allow themselves to be voted out.”

    Don’t be daft. The last thing we need to do right now is fall into the ‘literally Hitler’ trap that the Left have been blundering into in recent times. If Labour win the next election, they aren’t going to abolish elections. This is not a tinpot South American country. There is a huge amount of non executive power that would prevent any such attempts, not least that ultimately all power resides in the Head of State and the Armed Forces swear loyalty to that.

    Corbyn and Co have the ability to do serious damage to the UK economy, lets focus on that, not tinfoil hat fantasies about them turning the UK into Venezuela.

  14. @Mr Ecks
    “Jim–Correct–which is why Corbog & McNasty won’t allow themselves to be voted out.

    They will move to secure enough firepower–Venezuela-style–to ensure that.

    Don’t be kidding yourselves with the “We’re special–that can’t happen here” crap.

    I asked a Venezuelan about this and she said no one thought that Chavez would be that bad.
    BTW despite disliking the Government she used to be too scared to vote against them and she was worried they would try to mess up her visa here if she did!

  15. Jim

    Yes, the rich can bugger off, but, for the Brits amongst them, most of their wealth is in the U.K. in the form of property.

  16. I don’t post often but put this on facebook a few months ago.

    As a reasonably numerate engineer, I calculate that Labour plans will attempt to raise £100,000 per person in tax. Can people check my arithmetic please? All figures approximate:
    – They want to raise 60BN and claim only 5% of taxpayers will pay more (95% pay no more tax).
    – about half of UK population of 60MN have an income (exclude children, pensioners, students, economically inactive, unemployed)
    – 40% of these are below tax threshold and so pay no tax
    – so taxpayers = 60M x 50% x 40% = 12MN people
    – 5% of these = 600,000 people paying more tax
    – therefore tax bill per person = 60BN / 600K = £100K

    Have I done this correctly? Comments appreciated.

  17. @Recusant
    “Yes, the rich can bugger off, but, for the Brits amongst them, most of their wealth is in the U.K. in the form of property.”
    But under Corbyn their wealth will be a lot less – so how can he tax them on it?

  18. “myth of trickle down economics”

    Wot? You mean I haven’t been able to buy a mobile phone for £5, a car for £400, a TV for £25, have access to 65 channels for £145/yr, buy a computer with more power than the entire Apollo programme for £200, *aluminium foil!!*, household electricity, f****, paracetamol at 1p per tab, all available because rich idiots spent their money on developing technologies allowing them to develop into cheap technologies.

  19. The Graun has been telling us for months that companies and banks are itching to leave this country because of Brexit. There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that many of them have thought about at least reducing their presence here.

    If you’re a company mulling it over, a higher rate of corporation tax is suddenly a big point in the positive column for leaving.

    If you’re a bank struggling to convince high profile employees to work outside of the UK, a jacked up top rate of tax makes your job a lot easier.

    We know that Corbyn doesn’t want a soft cuddly Brexit – even Guardian editorials acknowledge this. Why are these people so bloody stupid?

  20. Firefoxx,

    According to HMRC in 2017-18 they estimate there will be 30.3m taxpayers of which 4.16m will pay the higher rate and of those 364k will pay the additional rate. Its not a straight line but lets assume that 2m tax payers earn £80k+. By my calculation they’ll have to find £30k each.

    Or looking at it another way 5% of 30.3m is 1.5m which would be £40k each.

    Obviously it’s going to be skewed toward the higher end but if it was paid mainly by those in the additional rate band it would £165k each.

  21. “Don’t be daft.”

    Why not? You are.

    “The last thing we need to do right now is fall into the ‘literally Hitler’ trap that the Left have been blundering into in recent times.”

    If Trump had crew such as McNasty and friends around him the left might have had a point. The right certainly did re Killery and Co.

    ” If Labour win the next election, they aren’t going to abolish elections.”

    Well thank God you made that clear. And your basis for this assertion is?

    ” This is not a tinpot South American country.”

    Compared to what this country was it is already tinpot–a tin piss-pot in fact. You are correct that it is not located in South America.

    “There is a huge amount of non executive power that would prevent any such attempts, ”

    Which is what exactly? And what force has it against men armed with guns as Maduro has done in Venez.

    “not least that ultimately all power resides in the Head of State”

    I’m sure that Jezza and McNasty are all eaten up with loyalty to Her Majesty.

    “and the Armed Forces swear loyalty to that. ”

    So you are expecting a military coup against an elected Gubmint–even one that is becoming a dictatorship in stages as Chavez did with Venez. In this country?

    And I am unrealistic?

    “Corbyn and Co have the ability to do serious damage to the UK economy, lets focus on that, not tinfoil hat fantasies about them turning the UK into Venezuela.”

    While I normally find you sensible enough Jim you are way off base here.

    These cunts have waited all their scummy lives for this chance to takeover. They will import millions more beard boys to boost their votes and I think it highly likely that if despite that they are still voted out–also highly likely–they won’t be giving up so easily.

    Like I said to think it can’t happen here is the worst kind of smug complacency. Only a few weeks ago Jezza was ZaNu’s death knell. Now fools are talking of him as PM material.

    He is scum and he will ultimately fail because socialism is evil bullshit in opposition to reality. But before that point if you think he and his crew are not evil enough to stage a Marxist takeover of this country you are the tinfoil hatter.

  22. @Firefoxx: not exactly because they would attempt to get extra taxes from corporations before it hit an actual person’s income tax return. So the £80k limit would only apply after corporate taxes had been increased, so Joe Public wouldn’t pay extra tax, instead he have reduced income from investments (or reduced pension pot). So the 60bn tax rise would be spread more widely than just those on £80k or below. Anyone with stock market investments or a pension pot would be affected. Effectively they would be taxing everyone’s pension fund, but by stealth.

  23. Ecks

    “not least that ultimately all power resides in the Head of State”

    I’m sure that Jezza and McNasty are all eaten up with loyalty to Her Majesty.

    “and the Armed Forces swear loyalty to that. ”

    So you are expecting a military coup against an elected Gubmint–even one that is becoming a dictatorship in stages as Chavez did with Venez. In this country?

    Simply on a point of order – as this same debate came up quite a lot decades ago when people were thinking “what if Michael Foot were to do x, y, z” etc – nothing can become law without Brenda’s signature.

    It’s the ultimate check. Jezza can pass any law he wants, and it has no legal basis if Brenda doesn’t sign it.

    And, as we all agree, the monarch is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, and to whom as one they swear loyalty and allegiance.

  24. And, in any case, I refuse to believe he’ll be ever be elected PM.

    The Tories last time were a) utterly fucking useless, and b) didn’t really want to damange him personally, as they wanted people like him (and Abbott and co) to hang on in.

    And no one gave him a prayer, hence, he also got a lot of free mild protest votes.

    I really can’t see all of that happening next time (whatever the opinion polls may currently show).

  25. “And, in any case, I refuse to believe he’ll be ever be elected PM.”

    I’m hoping your right.

    But suggesting that McNasty and the gang can’t takeover because Brenda won’t agree is beyond silly.

    Leaving aside the fact that she has never failed to endorse any of the shit that has appeared before her so far.
    Indeed such refusal would be a benefit for Jezz–giving him the chance to end the “undemocratic” system.

  26. Ecks

    Following this through, and I think we’re agreed it’s entirely hypothetical.

    Even if he “somehow” got elected, there is no way a “majority” of this country would want to “end democracy”.

    I can’t even see a majority of MPs forcing through a law that somehow (in whatever form) destroys the election process, or otherwise somehow suspends democracy?

    It then has to go through the process of passing the Lords. It would do that ultimately even though it’s not a manifesto issue, but it would take the full permitted time.

    By then, there would be enough public outrage (from normal people, ie the overwhelming majority), that this would then be the biggest constitutional issue in centuries.

    At that point – somehow, who knows how or what – “something” will happen that will stop it, even if it had to be technicality of Brenda not signing (but I don’t care if it’s not that), or “an accident” or whatever?

    It’s just not going to happen. I know he’s a nutter, and all that, but not even most of his more moderate fruitcake supporters want democracy suspended, never mind “the people”, hence, no way.

    My two pennies worth?

  27. The same things have certainly been said almost everywhere the left have taken over.

    Corbog would hardly be likely to try to push thro’ “Freedom/democracy is kaput” Bill.

    It would be done one step at a time. Ensuring that authority and control –and ultimately shooters–are heading towards their supporters.

    As I say I hope you are right.

    It behooves all of us to do everything we can to ensure it is never put to the test. Evil scum should never be underestimated.

  28. “It behoves all of us to do everything we can to ensure it is never put to the test. Evil scum should never be underestimated.”

    Yep, I think most on here would agree..

  29. And, as we all agree, the monarch is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, and to whom as one they swear loyalty and allegiance.
    And, and don’t believe this hasn’t been discussed in messes in the early morning while the port is subsiding, which way will the blokes with guns jump?

    HM or the democratically elected PM? I’m going to suggest a weak step to the Royalist side but, if there were an attempted coup, the majority of HM troops would side with the law not the putative Crown “loyalists”.

    We have history with the right-foot boggies, for example.

  30. You’re wrong Mr Ecks. Give me the example of a democratic country with a developed economy going communist. There’s a few that went in that direction, briefly. Germany post WW1, Italy, Spain, couple of S.American, maybe. What happens is a right wing reaction backed by those about to have their wealth redistributed with help from the military. A “strong leader” arises to rescue the country from its fate.
    I think I’ll invest in a company makes jackboots, way Corbyn’s going.

  31. Although where Corbyn’ll be heading is that room with the muffled screaming & gunshot.

  32. SE

    and don’t believe this hasn’t been discussed

    Of course I believe you.

    But who’s leading the coup? A democratically elected PM that might be trying to restrict democracy (and almost certainly against the will of the people)?

    And what is the law? The monarch legally calls and dissolves Parliament and signs every Act of Parliament into law?

    Isn’t that the problem, in this context, with the notion or concept of democracy attempting a coup upon itself?

    As you say, probably better discussed after copious amounts of port…

    “that room with the muffled screaming & gunshot.”

    Makes a lot of sense to me..

  33. SE

    I probably posted too quickly and didn’t think through sufficiently what you were trying to say.

    I simply believe that “someone like Corbyn” – in spite of the democratic process – would not have (anything like) the will of the people, at the point that any attempt was made to curtail democracy, which I think potentially muddies or confuses that particular debate (wrt references to coup etc)?

  34. “I simply believe that “someone like Corbyn” – in spite of the democratic process – would not have (anything like) the will of the people, at the point that any attempt was made to curtail democracy, which I think potentially muddies or confuses that particular debate (wrt references to coup etc)?”

    Precisely. If a Corbyn led government managed to have enough Labour MPs of his ilk to pass a ‘No more elections’ Bill, presumably not having made that a manifesto pledge, then the coup is by Corbyn, not anyone who opposed it.

    In such a scenario , such a Bill having eventually passed both HoP, I would expect the Head of State to refuse to sign it into law, dissolve Parliament and declare new elections, so the policy could be put to the vote by the electorate. And the HoS having the pledge of allegiance of the Police and judiciary and the Armed Forces should be able to ensure that is enforced.

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