Has Soapy Joe ever heard of trade tariffs?

And international agreements that limit them?

A very substantial source of avoidance – practised by the usual suspects, Google, Facebook, Airbnb and others – involves selling into the UK from tax havens abroad. We should tackle this with a Foreign Sales Levy on large companies who engage in that practice. Base yourself here and you can pay corporation tax – but if you choose to game the system by selling to UK customers from tax havens you will pay a substitute for the corporation tax you are dodging.

Of course, a tax on corporate turnover throws up unfairnesses but – a universal answer to those who complain about measures that combat tax dodging, this – those unfairnesses are the consequences of choices made by taxpayers. If you don’t like the turnover tax, operate from within the jurisdiction.

And this?

But quite aside from this it hard to understand why our tax system should prefer the wealthy to higher earners. The trend should be to cut taxes on income and increase taxes on wealth.

Because the entirety of tax efficiency theory says tax income not wealth.

Why are taxes on earned income considerably higher than taxes on the income fruits of wealth? Bring the latter up to the level of the former – not at all difficult to do – and we would generate very substantial additional tax receipts and in a rational and progressive fashion.

Ditto, there are libraries full of this stuff, Nobels have been awarded for it.

37 comments on “Has Soapy Joe ever heard of trade tariffs?

  1. When he says this:
    The trend should be to cut taxes on income and increase taxes on wealth.

    What he actually means is this:
    Bring the latter up to the level of the former […] and we would generate very substantial additional tax receipts…

    Nom nom nom goes the slavering statist.

  2. Taking out NI are taxes on earned income really that different from tax on income from wealth ( e.g. dividends )?
    If NI is the explanation for his claim, then get rid of NI and roll it into income tax. Imv of course.

  3. For a tax barrister, a silk no less, to be writing this cock about cross-border sales is bloody frightening.

  4. A very substantial source of avoidance – practised by the usual suspects, namely British exporters – involves selling into Canada from tax haven UK. Canada should tackle this with a Plonking Pommy Sales Levy.

  5. I recently asked him if by “Uber, a new front” he implied some form of warfare, as in “Western Front”. If so, I requested gently ans politely, what non earth was a leading tax barrister doing announcing these feelings towards a legitimate business.

    For the record: I am very offended at being deleted.

  6. “increase taxes on wealth” and “taxes on the income fruits of wealth” are not exactly the same things are they?

    Why does he bother writing a whole article about whatever this is when we all know that what he means is “I’ll take all your money and give you back some of it because I know better”.

  7. There are two friends, let’s call them Joe and Ritchie. Both earn £100 and pay 30% tax on it. £70 in their pockets. Joe, being a cautious type, saves his. Ritchie spends all his on chips.

    At the end of the year, Joe must pay a wealth tax of £21. Ritchie pays nothing.

    At the end of year 2, Joe pays another wealth tax of £14.70. Ritchie pays nothing.

    At the end of year 3, Joe pays yet another wealth tax of £10.29. Ritchie pays nothing.

    And so on. At the end of ten years, Joe only has about £2.80 of his original £100 left. The taxman has taken the rest. Whereas Ritchie has paid only £30 of tax and spent the rest.

    How is this in any sense of the word fair?

  8. @aaa

    Yes, but Ritchie is now grotesquely obese and his local NHS trust will refuse to treat him should he need treatment for chronic smugness and aggravated mutton-headedness so in the end Joe is the better off of the two and nows that his tax liability has shrunk to 84p for year 11 so the tax burden is gradually reducing his tax liability on the £100.

  9. First Uber, now Airbnb. What is it with parasites like Soapy Joe wanting to tax the shit of things which are making people’s lives better and easier?

  10. Maugham has recently been making sustained efforts to achieve the heady heights of massive cvntishness in tax that Murphy currently occupies alone.

  11. @aaa,

    Your example is the wrong way round.

    Ritchie is the tight arsed fucker so will end up with the savings that are his wealth.

    Meanwhile, a state agency suggested Soapy Joe’s operatic recital room in his restored windmill wasn’t in keeping with the site, but he got it through planning anyway.

  12. “…if you choose to game the system by selling to UK customers from tax havens you will pay a substitute for the corporation tax you are dodging.”

    And how does Jollyold Prawn suggest we tell the difference between companies who ‘choose’ to be based in a tax haven and those who were, for want of a better expression, born there?

    And how do we decide what is and isn’t a ‘tax haven’? If there is any rule of thumb out there at the moment it’s a tax rate below 75% of our own. Which is soon to be 17%. So any country with a rate above 12.75% is OK. And the UK is a tax haven when looked at by any country with a rate 22.67% or higher.

    Although of course, in the world of Prawns & Potatoes, the UK is free to do whatever it likes on tax with no other country ever thinking of doing the same back to us. The whole world really ought to be paying tax in the UK on everything it does.

    And can we tell the difference between an ‘evil tax haven’ and a third-world country that reduces tax rates to encourage business?

    The thing, as always, is that the words and ideas have a flimsy attraction to the economically illiterate but collapse under the mildest scrutiny.

  13. And how does Jollyold Prawn suggest we tell the difference between companies who ‘choose’ to be based in a tax haven and those who were, for want of a better expression, born there?

    I remember the outrage when some Brit was discovered to have – horrors! – a Swiss bank account, an obvious sign that he’s a rampant tax cheat. Only it turned out he lived there for years and had his salary paid locally.

  14. Anyone know of any grant applications for Jollyboy’s windmill come opera venue renovation? There usually are numerous available

  15. AndrewC

    “And can we tell the difference between an ‘evil tax haven’ and a third-world country that reduces tax rates to encourage business?”

    Where have you been? There is an *authoritative* list of “secrecy jurisdictions” drawn up annually by some Murphy linked organisation staffed by prodnoses and stool inspectors all without any tax or business qualifications or expertise?

  16. What happens to him when British based companies are charged these taxes by foreign countries because they are only paying taxes in the UK?

  17. @Martin – second-order effects. The likes of Joyless Moaghn and Spud think the UK exists in some kind of bubble and the idea of reciprocity coming back to bite them on their ample arses never crosses their tiny minds.

  18. Is the UK on that authoritive list of tax havens? It should be. Standing in the USA with 40% corporation tax, the UK with its 20% corporation tax is clearly a tax shelter.

  19. As the great BF says:

    Maugham is rivalling Murphy in his propensity for evil. In Some ways he may yet be worse as he is ostensibly well qualified in matters related to tax yet chooses to be deliberately otiose. Certainly he should be with the Murphmeister on the first flight to Cuba or North Korea once the deportations begin…..

  20. “Maugham has recently been making sustained efforts to achieve the heady heights of massive cvntishness in tax that Murphy currently occupies alone.”

    Amen bother.

  21. Yes well Nobels have been awarded for saying the opposite as well. I can`t see what is good about discouraging endevour and encouraging inertia .

  22. Any examples of a Nobel being granted for showing that taxing wealth is better than taxing income, Newmania? The orthodoxy seems to be the opposite

  23. First Uber, now Airbnb. What is it with parasites like Soapy Joe wanting to tax the shit of things which are making people’s lives better and easier?

    It is the disquiet of the dim middle classes seeing potential disruption to their ordered place in the world (them above the working classes, forever).

    Add to the “we can’t afford to buy a house in Hampstead like my grandfather did” wail and you have a powerful force of Reaction building up. Anything which turns the clock back to 1960.

  24. NewRemainiac–You voted for corruption, inertia, the open discouragement of anything resembling endeavour and enterprise, economic (as well as political tyranny) etc.

    What you mean is that well-off, well-connecturd middle/upper class, cultural Marxist, London Bubble puke-creepers like you and Joly have the slime-ing skills required to thrive and prosper in state controlled corporate socialist paradise.

    And piss on everybody else.

  25. I was referring to the old joke that Economics was the only science for which a Nobel prize can be awarded to two people saying the opposite thing.
    No idea about this issue to be honest but I doubt Mr Worstall will be genuflecting at the shrine of Krugman on the basis of his gong and he certainly advocates much higher taxes on the rich ( Stiglitz and Sen might also not be his cup of tea )

    I don`t know what the theoretical background is I just don`t understand how taxing income and not wealth is a good thing when taxing income is clearly a tax on work and initiative whereas taxing wealth is a tax on luck largely and also represents far greater inequality than income

  26. “I just don`t understand how taxing income and not wealth is a good thing when taxing income is clearly a tax on work and initiative whereas taxing wealth is a tax on luck largely and also represents far greater inequality than income”

    What do you think creates wealth then, sloth and indolence?

  27. “No idea about this issue” pretty much sums up Newmania and his views. Lazy thinking together with complete ignorance. And these are the types of people by whom we are governed all over the world.

  28. “I doubt Mr Worstall will be genuflecting at the shrine of Krugman on the basis of his gong”
    He does and has – but Tom has been clear that it is for the work that earned him that Nobel.
    I think most people would praise Gascoigne for his work that got him SPOTY, but wouldn’t praise him for his drinking activities at Kettering

  29. A new definition of irony.

    Somebody spouting the inequality of taxing income rather than wealth being unable to spell ende(a)vour. ?

    Coat ?

  30. “The orthodoxy seems to be the opposite”

    Ah, that ‘establishment’.

    Drain the swamp, I say. ‘Experts’ need exterminating because they think they know things.

    Pile of wank socks, the lot of them.

  31. What do you think creates wealth then, sloth and indolence?

    Mostly the luck of birth, although if you were to suggest to me that the population of South Wales lets us say, are inherently slothful and useless I might concede it as a possibility

  32. @ Newmania – you need to read a recent Greg Clark paper on regional inequality.
    It’s about Northern England rather than South Wales but the conclusion is blooming interesting
    https://migrationcluster.ucdavis.edu/events/event-sample

    Those areas like SW and the North attracted the lower skilled when they boomed, and now the trad industries have gone and we subtract those with moxy and brains who migrate they have ended up being even lower skilled and lower IQ. Handouts will not help this.

  33. Thanks for that input Facepainter. You now stand revealed to all as the snobbish cunt you have always been.

    “The EU for the good of me and mine and fuck you proles”.

    As for regeneration–freedom and free markets again and purge away socialist bullshit brainwashing.

    Then we’ll see who can achieve what.

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