What Horrors, What Horrors

Part of the problem is that during the campaign and beyond, the sources of right-wing disinformation have been diffuse. Some of it comes from Russian-backed sources, absolutely. But a lot comes from sleazy right-wing operators stateside. Many of these folks aren’t even getting paid, but are part of a volunteer army of “alt-right” propagandists.

Isn’t it just appalling when the citizenry talk among themselves? They might even be guilty of Notgoodthink, eh?

43 comments on “What Horrors, What Horrors

  1. The fact that lots of people don’t like Hillary Clinton or the Democratic party is simply unimaginable to them, so they’re all ‘Traitors’ or ‘Nazis’.

  2. A year out from Donald Trump’s astonishing and disturbing presidential win, it’s become clear that the absolute sea of disinformation — much of which was Russia-funded and most of which was disseminated through the internet — was critical in helping push a know-nothing reality TV star–turned-wannabe-dictator into power.

    I like to think she typed this Menschian screed with blood coming out of her whatever, like a shrieking middle-aged Carrie.

    Sad!

  3. So the author is surprised that much of the opposition is not getting paid. Which makes me question the author’s motives. Without pay who, if anyone, would she support?

  4. With the 2018 elections less than a year away, the pressing question now is: How we stop this from happening again?

    If wearing pink vagina hats, calling everyone racists, and holding rallies to scream at the sky won’t convince people to vote Democrat, I don’t know what will.

  5. “People are sharing psychological, academic research” about how people develop false beliefs in “alt-right” forums, Wardle said.

    “They probably don’t even believe in the Science that there’s 57 genders, that Islam is a Religion of Peace, and that drag queens make great preschool teachers. What are they – nuts?”

  6. The one overriding reason the dems will not get re-elected is that they are really, really bad at anatomy. They were dressed up as vulvas, not vaginas. I know this for sure because I did O Level biology and we ALL remember that lesson! And if your re-election strategy is vagina-based but fronts up at vulva-based then the vaginas will get irked at the rampant vulvaism and pull out. Of course they’d be much, much better advised to put a giant inflatable chicken with a Donald haircut in front of the Washington monument. That’d make 2020 a foregone conclusion.

  7. Salon considers the opposition to be evil. Standard Nazi stuff. Salon feels justified in doing anything, including murder, to stop evil.

  8. Salon, being that great Left-wing purveyor of fake news, should pour itself a nice steamy hot cup of STFU.

  9. “Part of the problem is that during the 2017 UK election campaign and beyond, the sources of left-wing disinformation have been diffuse. Some of it comes from Russian-backed sources, absolutely. But a lot comes from sleazy left-wing operators in the UK. Many of these folks aren’t even getting paid, but are part of a volunteer army of “alt-left” propagandists.”

    Sums up the recent general election campaign success on-line by Corbyn and Co. Salon not wringing their hands about that.

    Personally I think we should be applauding unpaid political involvement (grass roots activism is the term isn’t it) even if it is misguided.

  10. I see that saopy joe is pontificating in the guardian about funding of eu vote- noticeably ignoring 1) the whole weight of government behind remain. 2) eu propaganda to remain 3) bbc bias – but thats ok because they had right think on their side.

  11. We have to take away people’s keyboards, just as we took away their guns. The government needs a monopoly on verbal abuse, to match their existing monopoly on violence.

  12. This manure came from the same hole as the belief that UK universities are “permeated with neo-liberalism”. Just fevered ragings of a disordered mind.

  13. Some of the fake news I’ve been reading on all those alt-right sites I frequent:

    – A Bernie supporter shot up a field where a bunch of republican congressmen were practising baseball, seriously injuring one of them.

    – (Republican) Senator Rand Paul was viciously blindsided by his Democrat neighbour in an unprovoked attack which left him with five broken ribs, a pierced lung and pneumonia.

    – The republican Governor of Texas received a bomb in the mail which fortunately failed to explode.

    I say these stories are examples of fake news because the MSM barely covered them or managed to change the narrative.

    It’s an old cry but I’ll repeat it: “What would the coverage be like if these guys had been Democrats?”

  14. I went out for a pint with a Leftists friend of mine lately and we got talking about “the centre ground”

    I pointed out to him that there is seemingly only two sides now.

    1 – “Left-wing”
    2 – “Far-right”

    I asked him who he considered to be the authentic voice of the “moderate right” these days, and when he couldn’t name anyone I pointed out that’s because the centre ground has been shifted left by the media. There is no longer a moderate right or a far left as a result.

    The Salon author should be asked to give us an example of a right-wing commentator that is NOT a Russian propagandist or slinger of disinformation.

    The resulting silence should reveal their horrific bias, even to them.

  15. OT: this Uber data hack thing is interesting – one wonders if somewhere on the dark web there isn’t a copy floating around, and whether a certain Mr Sadiq Khan of London might be shown to have been a Uber user a few years ago, before doing so was considered a no-no on the left?

  16. I went out for a pint with a Leftists friend of mine lately and we got talking about “the centre ground”

    I reckon there’s still – barely – a Fake Consensus in Westminster, or they wouldn’t have been so overwhelmingly butthurt about Brexit, but the mood of the country is more polarised than I can remember and it’s telling that the St. Jo narrative never gained any useful traction. Member how we were all supposed to vote Remain because it’s what St. Jo would’ve wanted?

    We’re approaching Oliver Cromwell levels of popular hatred for MP’s.

    Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

    Also, there’s no middle ground in popular culture anymore. This is due to factors demographic and technological. If politics is downstream of culture, it’s gonna get more argy-bargy and not less.

  17. Russia promotes far right governments in the West.

    Jeremy Corbyn appears on Russia Today.

    The first is disgusting but the second is wonderful,

    This shows that the tragic mistake by the Crone was to utter lefty propaganda and promote a mixture of Conservative and Socialist policies.

    The idiot didn’t realise that if you are in the Conservative Party the lefties will wish you dead even if you promote Stalinist policies.

  18. “Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic exceed his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic. This discrepancy is common in public life, where people are frequently impelled – whether by their own propensities or by the demands of others – to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some degree ignorant. Closely related instances arise from the widespread conviction that it is the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to have opinions about everything, or at least everything that pertains to the conduct of his country’s affairs.” ― Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit

    Harry probably wasn’t thinking about Amanda Marcotte when he wrote this, but he should have been.

  19. Andrew M – government does not have a monopoly on violence unless its employing the people doing the violence to do it.

  20. Has any actually seen much of this fake news? I mean the unironic stuff they are saying exists out there in massive volumes and swings elections?

    NB Raising concerns about the health of a woman sling into a van like a side of beef does not constitute fake news.

  21. Has any actually seen much of this fake news?

    Chancellor delivers stark warning of £15bn tax rises, increase in fuel and alcohol duties and £15bn cuts to health, education and defence if Britain leaves the EU

    Survey finds Hillary Clinton has ‘more than 99% chance’ of winning election over Donald Trump

    Intervening in Libya in 2011 was the right thing to do

  22. moqifen,

    Haven’t you heard, the BBC was biased towards the leave campaign and it’s completely their fault we voted t leave.

    They showed that bus on the news and other programs and let leave campaigners claim that the £ 50m could, not would, be spent on the NHS. Apparently that was fake news and shouldn’t have been allowed and as a consequence all the stupid people, that bring the 52%, went out and voted leave. If they hadn’t shown it it would have been 100% remain.

  23. @magnusw: I remember around the US election the BBC shared supposed examples of fake Russian news that swung voters to Trump. I did not recognize any of it, and that was after a solid 6 months dwelling on breitbart and r/the_donald. All left wing sites are lying.

  24. Journalism: “a profession whose business it is to explain to others what it personally does not understand.” – Alfred Harmsworth, 1st Viscount Northcliffe

  25. ‘comes from sleazy right-wing operators stateside’

    Sleazy?

    ‘marked by low character or quality’

    If it’s of low character or quality, why the fvck are you concerned? Sleazy, right-wing disinformation is enough to defeat you? You make a declaration of rank inferiority that you can be defeated so easily.

    ‘While those on the call were optimistic that social media giants like Facebook and Twitter can do more to slow the onslaught of disinformation — mostly fueled by supporters of authoritarianism, both in and outside of the U.S.’

    The Left fighting authoritarianism. A complete vacuum of self awareness.

  26. “Many of these folks aren’t even getting paid, but are part of a volunteer army of “alt-right” propagandists.”

    Doesn’t this make them community organisers?

  27. They showed that bus on the news and other programs

    I get the politics, but the 350 million claim was surely a mistake as it wasn’t true. That’s what I thought anyway.

    However, the Brexit divorcee bill is shedding new light. I’m looking forward to the inevitable stories along these lines:

    “Incompetent Tories finally capitulate, agreeing a payment to the EU amounting to around 400 million per week for the next x years. This could have been spent on the NHS say Remain campaigners.”

  28. @Jack C

    “I get the politics, but the 350 million claim was surely a mistake as it wasn’t true. That’s what I thought anyway.”

    The issue wasn’t that it wasn’t true – it was, if anything, rounded down to the nearest £50m.

    The issue was that implied that £350m *would* be spent on the NHS and they allowed this implication to continue.

    I say this was / is an issue as, as a Brexiteer, it meant that the argument did not focus on the gross contributions and / or strings attached rebate and furthermore has allowed Remoaners throughout the campaign and ever since to beat us up with it. (Despite it being accurate).

    If we remove the £350m bus campaign issue, Remoaners are stuck, whereas Brexiteers can easily point to the cacophony of lies in Project Fear and abuse of state institutions.

  29. If we remove the £350m bus campaign issue, Remoaners are stuck

    Wrong. They’d just call you a racist.

    The reason Remongs can’t let go of the bus thing is because it was effective rhetoric. That pisses them off, bigly.

    You know you’re over the target when you’re taking flak. The NHS bus was Leave’s most valuable sortie. Even better than Farage’s immigrants poster – which was also great, but probably not hugely persuasive to people who weren’t already on our side.

    it meant that the argument did not focus on the gross contributions and / or strings attached rebate

    If Leave had focused on a dry, spergy argument about gross contributions and how many Eurocrats can dance on the head of a Directive, we’d have gotten every anorak-wearing Eurosceptic swot out to the polls… and lost.

    The genius of the £350m NHS slogan was in attaching a cost to being in the EU (boo!), and getting the public to visualise a positive alternative (NHS, yay!). The actual number doesn’t matter, except inasmuch as it showed EU membership as being costly (which it is), and forced the enemy to defend an unpopular thing (sending our money to Brussels).

    Tying the positive outcome Leave offered to the NHS was brilliant, because the NHS is – like it or no – our religion now, which is why the red tops are forever screaming about “angel nurses” and every election is about the evil tories trying to privatise it.

    whereas Brexiteers can easily point to the cacophony of lies in Project Fear and abuse of state institutions.

    And then what?

    We live in a democracy. Most people spend about 10 seconds a week thinking about politics, and half of them are below average intelligence.

    Pointing out hey, those guys are liars! may be true, but isn’t persuasive, which is why good salesmen don’t waste a lot of time rubbishing the competition.

    You need to give short, snappy, memorable reasons for people to do what you want them to do. Dialectic no worky.

  30. It’s funny how Brexiteers defend the £350m thing in one breath and mock the failed NHS as “the wonder of the world” in the next. It’s almost as if there is some cognitive dissonance there.

  31. In fact, it’s as if blowing the money on unproductive Brussels Bureaucracy and unproductive NHS diversity consultants/tranny ops/managers/failed IT projects/malpractice lawsuits isn’t basically the same thing!

  32. The lesser of two weevils Biggie.

    And your dear EU pals had the unlovely NHS in their sights anyway–what with reports about how many more British folk die cos of the NHS than would have died under the tender krau-frog style of corporate socialism.

    And the cash waste might be the same thing–but one helped get us out from under your beloved vile, tyrannical cultural suicide gang . And the other way would have just prolonged Freedom’s agony.

  33. The £350 million was an elephant trap into which Remain fell, and then, when lying bruised at the bottom of the pit, insisted on keeping digging. It was of course, an accurate, gross figure as the BBC’s own web site confirms. If anyone could ever agree on an accurate net amount, does anyone imagine a single vote would have changed had the bus slogan read £200 million a week?

    The only thing voters heard was the (entirely true) message that our EU membership costs us a disproportionate amount of money that could be better spent at home.

  34. Ecks, I’ll tell you what’s so crap about the German system. It’s that if I need to see a specialist, I can usually see them the same day. At 8AM I go to some street where I know there’s a lot of x-ologists, and ask at reception. Repeat until someone can fit you in. If that doesn’t work your insurer holds prebooked appointments all over the country, and you can get one within days, depending on how far you are prepared to travel.

    The wait for an MR scan last time was about 6 days. It was reported with diagnosis about 20 minutes after finishing the scan, then appointment back with specialist the following week.

    That’s in the public part of the system, by the way.

    I’m so glad the wonder of the world works even better!

  35. “It’s funny how Brexiteers defend the £350m thing in one breath and mock the failed NHS as “the wonder of the world” in the next. It’s almost as if there is some cognitive dissonance there.”

    Not really. The NHS is akin to a religion with a decent proportion of the UK electorate, so suggesting that the cash we shovel to Brussels could be shovelled to the NHS instead is great politics. Not exactly 100% honest to be sure, but then lets just agree that politics isn’t very honest, and the Remain camp had as many questionable claims, if not more. How many people were scared into voting Remain by the ‘£4000/household worse off’ claim, or the Osborne’s ‘punishment budget’ or indeed Obama’s ‘Back of the queue’ claim? We’ll never know, and one suspects the net effect of all that politicking was zero – some people were affected to vote Leave by the NHS funding claims, and some to vote Remain by the false claims of the government, and thats about it.

    As Churchill once said about Stalin, “If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.” Sometimes you ally yourself to someone you dislike to defeat a common foe. Doesn’t mean Churchill approved of Stalin, or Brexiteers are worshippers of the NHS Grail.

  36. BiG

    Agreed. Coincidentally, I know someone is going through the exact same example you just describe. Excelpt that it took several months of unnecessary GP faffing before an MRI scan was even proposed / referred.

    They are still in the middle of it all, currently in the “several weeks” between the MRI scan taking place and seeing the specialist to determine what best happens next.

    And all the time, the poor bugger being forced to put up with this is becoming less and less mobile.

    It’s simply total utter shite. Sure, I (personally) know several excellenrt doctors / nurses / consultants, but the systems they are subjected to are not fit for purpose.

  37. Jim

    “and one suspects the net effect of all that politicking was zero”

    Interesting..

    Remain was sold as the safe status quo and Leave as armegeddon.

    I am clear in my own mind – and from talking to various afterwards (who voted Remain but became a lot less concerned once the dust had settled) – that the scaremongering had swayed people towards what was sold as the status quo.

    But, on the other hand, I know some who were influenced towards Leave by the obvious dishonesty of all the scare stories (rather that the NHS claim).

    I guess Remain didn’t really have much choice; they could hardly have been honest: “We envisage a fuure EUSSR / USE – as a stepping stone towards…”

    Who knows!

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.