Oh my, so, no doesn’t mean no in this Brave New World

Families of potential organ donors could be overruled under a new model of “presumed consent,” a public consultation suggests.

The thing is that even this wouldn’t solve the shortage of organs for transplant. Simply put, not enough of us die in a manner, place or time that makes organs suitable for transplant. Even if every organ o everyone dying is government property and confiscated immediately this *still* doesn’t solve the problem.

There are only two solutions.

1) Live and paid transplant. Has to be paid as there aren’t enough unpaid volunteers. Obviously this doesn’t work for hearts but it does for liver, kidney and lungs (partial transplants work and we’ve two kidneys).

2) Xenotransplant.

It has always amused – amused as in “what in buggery are these people doing” rather than “amused ha ha” sense – that so much effort is put into presumed consent when it doesn’t in fact solve the problem at hand.

36 comments on “Oh my, so, no doesn’t mean no in this Brave New World

  1. “Theresa May has vowed to introduce a new model of organ donation…”

    Has the vapid cow nothing more useful on which to concentrate her efforts?

    “In Wales the number of donors has not increased since an opt-out system was introduced two years ago.”

    See?

  2. The fact that it doesn’t provide an organ for everyone who needs one is not a reason for doing it. I have carried a donor card for thirty years but I am uneasy about presumed consent – too many in the NHS whose attitude to organ ownership is like Murphy’s views on the government’s right over our money.

  3. Julia is there first but the key words are Trasher Fucking May.

    Like foxhunting this is another bit of jumped up school ma’m arrogance that is a sure fire vote-loser. The only way that such unbelievable stupidity can be understood–for there can’t BE a human being as thick as that Cow seems to be–is that she is not just trying to wreck Brexit but to get Corbin voted in to finish the destruction of the UK on behalf of her Global “Elite” masters.

    It is not enough that she is out and ruined financially. We need a national charity event.

    Whoever puts up the most cash to charity gets her handed over to them and no comeback whatsoever. It would be money well spent. Doubtless the likes of us would be vastly out-bid within mere seconds. I have little doubt the money raised for good causes would be colossal.

  4. Sorry

    My body is not State Property

    If presumed consent is enacted I will deliberately opt out

    Soylent green anyone?

  5. There is a third option – we harvest the organs of criminals. This has two positive advantages. 1. It reduces crime by reducing the numbers of criminals. 2. It increases support for the death penalty by saving lives.

    Theoretically every murderer could save four or five lives.

    Most criminals are young, male, and fit. Ideal for organ donation. Sure, it is unpleasant to think about but when you get over that, it is an excellent idea. I suggest a three strikes and you’re an involuntary donor policy.

  6. Mr Ecks – “Julia is there first but the key words are Trasher Fucking May. Like foxhunting this is another bit of jumped up school ma’m arrogance that is a sure fire vote-loser.”

    But apart from that, yes, what Ecks says. May is spineless and weak. She is not a Tory in anything but name. The faceless bureaucrats who think they are our Lords and Masters want this policy. She is too witless to explain to them why they are wrong.

  7. The issue is not the foxhunt. It is bringing such crap out at a time when every vote is needed. I know three people–Brexit voters all–who abstained because of the fox-hunting cockrot. Whatever the rights/wrongs it is an issue for another time. That the stupid bitch threw it into the pot without thought or reason is what matters.

    SHE HAS TO GO. Or everything worthwhile still in existence will under Corbin’s evil.

    Over on Samizdata they have a piece about McNasty’s plans to take over nationalise investment and scientific research ie back to the worst of the 70s. That HAS to be stopped.

  8. Has to be paid as there aren’t enough unpaid volunteers.

    Never underestimate the ingenuity of a ruling class, especially a Progressive one. Volunteers can always be found.

  9. As long as the inveterate invertebrate remains prime minister, the government will find itself bullied into corners by special interest groups.

  10. SMFS,

    Science fiction beat you to it by four or five decades – Larry Niven explored exactly this issue, together with the way that the level of offence that got you put in the organ banks dropped: introduced for critical death-penalty felonies (we’re killin’ em anyway, why not break them for parts anyway?), the near-immortality allowed by “if any given part wears out or breaks down, replace it” and the demand thus spawned led to people being sentenced to the organ banks for traffic violations with the enthusiastic consent of the electorate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organlegging

    Niven’s an interesting writer – not bad on the “science” part of the science fiction and likes to explore questions, rather than battering you over the head with “Here is the problem! And here is the only sensible solution!” like Heinlein.

    I’m personally neutral on the opt-in / opt-out issue, but then I’ve always carried a donor card (though I pity whoever’s unfortunate enough to get my liver) and would personally rather any usable bits of me were useful to others: so naturally I’m predisposed to consider “opt out” a reasonable scheme, and therefore stay on the fence because others may not wish to become exhibits in a biological breakers’ yard (anyone else remember those?)

  11. @Mr Ecks

    Indeed. May wants to pander to everyone.

    Anything done to pander to the left will not make the left hate her/the Tories any less. Anything done to pander to the right gives the left another reason to hate.

    Fox hunting and the dementia tax. ‘strong & stable government’. Not taking part in the debates. FFS. What a way to run an election and she seems to have learned nothing.

    If they dug up Mrs T she’d make a better leader right now than May.

  12. Jason Lynch – “Science fiction beat you to it by four or five decades”

    I am indeed aware of Niven’s outstanding work in this area.

    “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organlegging”

    The problem with the concept of organlegging is that if people want an organ bad enough to kill for it, presumably they will kill even more people for ’em if organ banks are illegal.

    “I’m personally neutral on the opt-in / opt-out issue”

    My body. Not theirs. Not their choice to make.

  13. I suppose I’d quite like a new organ if I needed one so it would be churlish of me to keep my own organs after I stopped needing them.

  14. Live donor transplants are way more successful than harvesting the organs of a dead person. The taxpayer supports many young people unlikely to ever be an asset to an employer, many of whom have proved their physical fitness y reproducing early and often. I don’t think it unfair to ask for their spare kidney, liver lobe and lung in exchange for the support they receive.

  15. If you don’t make a pre-death statement of what to do with your other assets (ie, a will) the state gets to decide what to do with those assets and can ultimately take those assets, so it is a logical extension to make your body one of your post-mortem assets.

  16. My family know that I’m more than happy for doctors to use any bits of me that can help another person, but I will not carry a donor card because if it is a turn off the ventilator situation, I want my wife or children to be the ones making the decision, not some doctor making judgements as to my quality of life (something similar happened to my father-in-law).

    If presumed consent comes in, I’ll opt out on principle, but would expect my family to consent to my organs being used in accordance with my declared wishes.

    What happens in the case of non-UK residents visiting the UK, will they be presumed to have consented by virtue of their decision to set foot in the UK?

  17. ‘Presumed consent’ is a lousy idea.

    But “so much effort is put into presumed consent when it doesn’t in fact solve the problem at hand” is a foolish argument; it implies that ameliorating a problem is no good because it’s not a complete solution. That’s the sort of nonsense that young fart socialists espouse

  18. Has the vapid cow nothing more useful on which to concentrate her efforts?

    She’s like the Beethoven of bad ideas.

    “Hmm, so I’m making a horrible, shitty mess of Brexit, everyone hates me for pandering to Muslims while British children’s remains are scraped off the pavement, and Jeremy Corbyn is looking like a potential Prime Minister. I know! I’ll earn the nickname organ snatcher…”

  19. Excellent, SS2.

    “Organ Snatcher” references the “Milk Snatcher” of yesteryear (will we ever see her like again?). Might Organ Grindr be the next step in giblet reallocation automation?

  20. Jgh,

    Interesting link. Today I learned “impartial and independent” means “agreeing with me”.

  21. Ljh :”The taxpayer supports many young people unlikely to ever be an asset to an employer, many of whom have proved their physical fitness y reproducing early and often. I don’t think it unfair to ask for their spare kidney, liver lobe and lung in exchange for the support they receive.”

    I wish I could be sure this was a joke.

  22. My body is not State Property

    If presumed consent is enacted I will deliberately opt out

    Did so the day it came into force here. But I have no doubt that the records will be conveniently “mislaid” when it comes time for the state to harvest my corpse.

  23. Did so the day it came into force here. But I have no doubt that the records will be conveniently “mislaid” when it comes time for the state to harvest my corpse.

    A judge will happily overturn your wishes. After all, you will be dead. If they are happy to tear up legal agreements between the living to push Progressivism then they aren’t going to worry about the wishes of corpses.

  24. My corpse will be so riddled with the damage that the state (war) and I (fun) have inflicted on it that anybody who actually needs the bits is more likely to die from my organs rejecting them for insufficient blood alcohol level than what they are actually suffering from.

  25. Solution to lack organs from dead:

    Encourage Motorcycles as transport & abolish speed limits – green, less congestion, lower pension costs, more organs…

    State wins. Go on Mrs Weak & Subservient, you have nothing left to lose.

  26. that anybody who actually needs the bits is more likely to die from my organs rejecting them for insufficient blood alcohol level than what they are actually suffering from

    Excellent.

    And, as perverse amusement, this conversation with my doctor would be most fun: “But I need to keep drinking so that when my liver packs in, my body will be better suited to accept any possible transplant…”

  27. Not a new topic for sc-fi, recall theres a harry harrrison shirt story based on opt-out and the issues where the strict law conflicted with people’s wishes, so forgetting to carry your op out card meant being harvested regardless your wishes and family

  28. I suspect a way to stop people harvesting your organs is just to “leave your body to science”. Then it will enter an NHS queue and be deep frozen for decades.

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