Damn these idiot hicks!

But tonight’s election results do not leave me comfortable with the state of American politics. If Moore had merely been a candidate who believed Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to serve in Congress, that the laws of the United States of America should be superseded by his interpretation of the Bible, that homosexuality should be illegal, he would have won in a landslide. Even multiple credible reports that Moore serially preyed on teenage girls were barely enough to lose him the election.

Like Donald Trump before him, Moore is proof that there is no depravity so unforgivable, no behavior so immoral, that it assures a candidate will lose his party’s voters. What cannot be condoned will be denied.

Ezra Klein bemoaning the manner in which American voters just won’t leave everything to the technocrats like him.

36 comments on “Damn these idiot hicks!

  1. If Moore had merely been a candidate who believed Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to serve in Congress, that the laws of the United States of America should be superseded by his interpretation of the Bible, that homosexuality should be illegal, he would have won in a landslide.

    Heh. Stupid rednecks who don’t want their kids molested or blown up, their culture and religion spat on, or tranny cocks in their daughters’ changing room… what’s really important is ethnic food trucks and the freedom to insert foreign objects in your rectum, bigots!

  2. Ben Shapiro presents it, from the conservative perspective, as having to choose between a man credibly accused of sexual misconduct, vs a man definitely supporting the killing of the unborn.

    It’s not hard to see why people still support Moore, even if you don’t agree with the perspective.

  3. I can well understand the technoratio frustration that people will bote for him even knowing these horrible and credible allegations. Heck I share that frustration.
    However, this really is one of those moments when it appears dishonesty rules and the Ezra Kleins of this world refuse to acknowledge that they are NOT democrats. The truth is they don’t believe in democracy because they don’t like or don’t trust the demos.
    For this at large in the nearer wild see Remainers.

  4. or tranny cocks in their daughters’ changing room…

    Bloody hell, Steve, did you have to?

    We’ll have NiV along shortly to tell us all what nasty, sniggering bigots we all are and how it’s all perfectly normal because he has the links to prove it. So there!

  5. First things first: Ezra Klein is not a technocrat. The only thing he knows how to do is run his mouth. He is a courtier, and a minor one at that.

    And because Ezra Klein isn’t worth a shit at doing his job, he’s missed the most significant aspect of Roy Moore’s candidacy… Roy Moore defeated Luther Strange – the Establishment Republican Party’s hand-picked successor to Jeff Sessions – in the Republican Party primary.

    “Journalists” keep trying to pretend that the rise of Donald Trump was in response to Democratic Party policies and candidates. That is mistaken. If beating Hillary Clinton was the object, any old Republican would have done. There was no reason to reject Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, etc. just to get to Donald Trump if the Democratic nominee was the issue.

    Donald Trump is the response of Republican voters who have come to the conclusion that the Republican Party no longer represents their interests. Roy Moore is part and parcel of that, as Donald Trump well understood. Luther Strange was an apparatchik, and Alabama Republicans fully accepted the idea that they’d rather gamble on having a Democrat win the seat (as has happened) as having the wrong sort of Republican (which Strange was) remain in office.

  6. ‘Like Donald Trump before him, Moore is proof that there is no depravity so unforgivable, no behavior so immoral, that it assures a candidate will lose his party’s voters. What cannot be condoned will be denied.’

    Ten Commandments in court house vs Bengazi, email server, Uranium One, Bimbo Eruptions, etc.

  7. “refuse to acknowledge that they are NOT democrats.”

    True. The post-Trump election eruption is a broad-based, very public rejection of democracy. The refusal to accept the results of an election, the largest national election, is damning. The basis for democratic elections is deceased.

    I’m reminded of what the inimitable Oliver of John Boy & Billy fame, “If your cat were bigger, it would eat you.”

    If the Dems had more power, they’d kill Trump, Republicans, and white men. As if we were Kulaks or Untermensch.

  8. I saw a clip of an interview with some Moore supporters a couple of days ago. The interviewer kept badgering her about the molestation allegations, she replied: remember, in our system you are innocent until proven guilty, come back when you have proof. I could almost hear the journo wailing: but that means the system’s broken!!!

  9. Donald Trump is the response of Republican voters who have come to the conclusion that the Republican Party no longer represents their interests. Roy Moore is part and parcel of that, as Donald Trump well understood

    Yarp.

    I reckon there’s some important differences between the two though.

    Trumpism is populist nationalism lite. Basically the sort of broad pro-American agenda nobody would’ve blinked an eye at under JFK, Nixon, or Reagan. It’s only because politics has moved so sharply towards globalism since 1991 – and because of his unconventional style – that Trump looks like an outlier.

    Moore strikes me as more of a throwback to bible-bashing 80’s moral majority politics.

    Trump’s more of a cultural Christian, a guy who obviously respects the Church but isn’t exactly an altar boy himself. His message is primarily about jobs, security, and law enforcement, not morality or religiosity.

    Moore spent an awful lot of time talking about abortion and was previously best known for his 10 Commandments stunt/noble stand. That sort of thing plays to shrinking crowds, even in the Deep South. He also isn’t very likeable. That’s why he lost, where Trump got 63% of the Alabamian vote.

    The combined efforts of the Republicans, Democrats and the entire US media wouldn’t have been enough to defeat him if he was just a little bit sharper in his message and more appealing to the folks who elected President Trump.

  10. Alabama Republicans understood quite well that Roy Moore was an inferior candidate… Even before the sex allegations. He won the primary because Alabama Republicans decided they’d vote for anybody rather than the sort of non-Republican Republican Luther Strange was. And I doubt many of Moore’s supporters are, today, doing much in the way of gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair. From their perspective, it might just be better to have a senator who is The Enemy than have a senator who poses as A Friend and betrays them at every turn.

    Example: Luther Strange would never vote to repeal Obamacare. Neither would Doug Jones. So if you’re a Republican who really wants Obamacare repealed, why would you get all shook up over a Doug Jones win?

  11. If you go 50 miles in from any major American city you will find a lot of angry people. This might even be particularly the case for the blue states where their hinterlands are simply overwhelmingly dominated by their largest city. I’ve always believed that Trump secured the nomination and eventually the presidency because these angry people proved to be numerous enough to pip him over the top in a few rust belt states. They sic’d Trump on the establishment of both parties as one might sic a mad dog.

    I don’t blame them for being angry, but if you haven’t been focused on politics and Trump’s behavior for the past year life’s been pretty good. Stock market and retirement accounts are up. Municipal pension fund managers are breathing a bit easier. The economy is growing. Jobs are more plentiful. Wages apparently haven’t grown much, but they should as the labor market tightens. I recall that Mr Worstall has argued that people are happiest when they perceive that they have prospects – perhaps even more so than after they’ve realized their ambitions.

    That Moore won the nomination against Strange shows that there are still angry people out there. That he lost in Alabama of all places suggests that the anger is abating.

  12. I recall that Mr Worstall has argued that people are happiest when they perceive that they have prospects

    Yes.

    If you go 50 miles in from any major American city you will find a lot of angry people.

    Meh. The anger is mostly on the American left. It’s not right wingers who had a collective, pussyhatted fit over the election.

    That he lost in Alabama of all places suggests that the anger is abating

    Nah. He was a poor candidate, with an unimpressive track record in his previous state elections, who was outspent 10-1, not including the tsunami of free media support his opponent got. His personal negatives proved too high to overcome the angry lefties out to IMPEACH BLUMPF

    So if you’re a Republican who really wants Obamacare repealed, why would you get all shook up over a Doug Jones win?

    Sure. All I’m saying is, despite his (fumbled) attempts to hitch his wagon to the Trump train, Moore wasn’t really a MAGA candidate. Too much baggage and too much of the 80’s televangelist about him. He got only 40-something percent of the folks who voted Trump, which is very poor even in the circumstances he faced.

    A Paul Nehlen figure would’ve won.

    Otoh, realignments mean dropping old pretenses as they are no longer credible. The GOPe certainly showed what they’re all about.

  13. I live in Silicon Valley but am in places like Fresno or Susanville often enough. There were and are a lot of pissed off people out there. They were angry enough to vote for Trump, though certainly insufficient in numbers to offset the votes in the Bay Area, LA and San Diego. However, my point is that they are less angry today, and the past year has been pretty good if you’re not an angry liberal having a hissy fit.

    As for Moore being a poor candidate. Possibly. He’s not my cup of tea. But he only fell about 20,000 votes short out of 1.3 million. That’s pretty close. He’d probably have won if just enough people hadn’t found the allegations against him credible.

  14. Squirrel. Thank you. But the past 30 years have been a interesting run. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. I’ll probably shift out in the next year or two as the traffic is starting to wear. Might sell the house and buy Montana.

  15. Speaking of anger, btw (and I’m not a fan of the term in this context, sounds like writing off millions of folks’ political views as an emotional spasm), bring pissed off with the status quo isn’t just a Right thing.

    Bernie Sanders (who may well have won if the system wasn’t rigged by the Clintons) was the Left’s expression of discontent.

    And why not? Who does the status quo really benefit? So, California is supposed to be America in 20 or 30 years time. And demographically, it’s a thin white crust of autistic billionaires lording over teeming hordes of brown serfs. Not an attractive prospect if you aren’t in the donor class.

    Clownworld progress means ‘How can we eat?’ -> ‘Why do we eat?’ -> ‘Where shall we have lunch? -> ‘Does this go in my butt?’ -> ‘Does this thing in my butt have wireless?’

    Is it any wonder that this iteration of modernity, in all its premium mediocre atomised shittiness and hollow, social media mediated ersatz relationships, has its discontents?

    I don’t think Moore-style cowboy-hatted Bible-bashing is the alternative, but there’s definitely a better option than turning your country into nothing more than a bunch of airports and malls connecting megafavelas and gated community Bantustans from sea to shining sea.

  16. theres some freak in todays mail – it reckons it’s male but has just had a baby. Had one child as a female but “transitioned to a man” – married to some other bloke – now has a baby . In a sane world “it” would be locked up- not pandered to. Poor child is going to be fucked up.

  17. There were multiple credible reports. The report of preying on an UNDERAGE girl was neither multiple nor credible. Pollster Frank Luntz assembled a focus group and begged them that “you can’t believe they are ALL lying, can you?” They might well be; they were all marshalled by a political opponent against a candidate with a long record of writing verdicts against people. One can’t prove a negative, so no one comes forward with testimony that Moore did NOT molest her. One of Luntz’s persons-on-the-street explained that 40 years ago (and probably today in many places), marrying your young daughter off to a thirty-something professional would be Epic Win.

    Meanwhile, Senator Menendez from New Jersey is obviously guilty of dispensing regulatory relief for campaign cash (though his first jury could not decide, one juror asking the judge, “What’s a Senator?”) and there is no outrage, nor even news reports. Trump must quit next, for having been a cad once.

  18. PS to Dennis the Peasant and Solid Steve–Yep. I voted for Trump believing he could shake things up. (Also because nothing about Hillary’s four decades in government has been on-the-level.) Moore reflects the same impulse, though Moore obviously has a Bible-based agenda and Trump mostly has a Twitter account. Both guys want to go to Washington to do something more than stay in Washington.

    Long before Moore, though, the well-defined plank of repealing Obama-care had become the undefinable “repeal and replace.” The program to certify individual gallons of petrol as being watered down with home-grown ethanol survives; as does the Export-Import Bank, which dishes favors mostly to Boeing by setting the price of credit wrong. It’s easy to reduce tax rates, and could produce explosive new growth, even if it doesn’t “pay for itself.” It’s much harder, especially now with a margin of 1 Senator, to rein in the flow of Free Money. Even Ronald Reagan couldn’t do that.

  19. “In a sane world “it” would be locked up- not pandered to. Poor child is going to be fucked up.”

    There are people who would argue that all the homophobes and transphobes and right-wingers ought to be locked up – not pandered to.

    Can’t say I approve, but it’s pretty hard to argue with the justice of it. If you spit on other people’s culture, you get spat on.

    You have to pity their poor transphobic kids though, brought up with such a crippling, hate-filled mindset… They’re going to wind up as messed-up pariahs, wondering what the hell *they* did to deserve being spat on so much. Parents, eh?

    “We’ll have NiV along shortly to tell us all what nasty, sniggering bigots we all are […] because he has the links to prove it.”

    Who needs links to prove it? You’re doing such a brilliant job all on your own.

    Thanks for the attempt, though.

  20. NiV–Disagreement with you might reflect something other than a “phobia”–notably, “homophobia,” which was originally used to suggest that one’s adversary fears the strength of his own sexual identity. So stop the name-calling.

    The current state of our politics is that no one objects to a person playing the pretend game of his choice. The current battlefield is on proposals that everyone from bakers to little girls in the locker room be compelled to participate in the game of pretend (the taxpayer having to pay for mutilation of other people’s bodies), and that schoolteachers not presume that an 8-year-old “LGBT person” has the understanding to make such a decision.

    For a pre-pubescent boy to want to be a girl is already “messed up”; this does not depend on the “hate” of anyone else; and it ought not be regarded as a given, with the rest of the world required to adjust to it. This was one of the functions of education–when we used to do it.

  21. “There are people who would argue that all the homophobes and transphobes and right-wingers ought to be locked up – not pandered to.”

    You and your SJW pals should try your luck with that NiV. I’d like a chance to bring your bulllshit to a fitting conclusion.

    I don’t mind the mentally ill except when they are happy to be pawns –like you–of socialist evil. As for your “transphobic hate screws you up” cockrot–yeah right. Go look at a few sad photos of your disordered chums and read their poisonous SJW ramblings–and then get back to us with news of who is screwed up.

    How’s it going with the Jihadis?–cos I think they’re a lot better at killing kids than you are at friendly fucking persuasion.

  22. You have to pity their poor transphobic kids though, brought up with such a crippling, hate-filled mindset… They’re going to wind up as messed-up pariahs, wondering what the hell *they* did to deserve being spat on so much.

    Well said. And in a similar vein, if anyone here refuses to accept* that I am Space Emperor Napoleon Boniface Bonaparte the Umpteenth and a 12 year old Nigerian of no fixed gender, then I will come round and spit at your children.

    And it will be your fault, haterz.

    *I say accept, I mean celebrate.

  23. NIV – men cannot give birth. That’s a fact – only females can. To pretend otherwise is sheer delusion. This fucked up person who has given birth is not male despite his delusions and all the drugs in the world. He’s pretending – and in a sane society would be not given the encouragement to live this delusion. Take advice from an expert – https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgendered-men-dont-become-women-they-become – he knows more than your “feelings”

  24. “Disagreement with you might reflect something other than a “phobia”–notably, “homophobia,” which was originally used to suggest that one’s adversary fears the strength of his own sexual identity.”

    Don’t think so.

    Psychologist George Weinberg invented the word in his book “Society and the Healthy Homosexual”. It was originally described as: “a phobia about homosexuals….It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.”

    However, the meaning has since mutated to a more general irrational aversion. For example, the Oxford English Dictionary define it “dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people”. Merriam-Webster: “irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.” Collins English Dictionary: “Homophobia is a strong and unreasonable dislike of homosexual people, especially homosexual men.”

    A lot of words change meaning over time. My usage is perfectly standard.

    “So stop the name-calling.”

    So will you stop with the “tranny” and “freak” name-calling? Or tell people who use such name-calling the same? No, I didn’t think so.

    It’s rank hypocrisy to moan like a snowflake about being called names while using language like that yourselves. If you spend all your time spitting on other people’s culture, you get yours spat upon.

    “The current state of our politics is that no one objects to a person playing the pretend game of his choice.”

    Yes. You can *pretend* that TGs are deluded, or that you’re still part of a moral majority in disapproving of them. You can talk about it all you like, just as the rest of society can point out why you’re wrong. But you don’t get to tell other people what to do, except to prevent direct harm.

    “The current battlefield is on proposals that everyone from bakers to little girls in the locker room be compelled to participate in the game of pretend”

    You mean you’re being compelled to stop bullying them.

    And it’s not a “game of pretend” for them, whatever you may think.

    “and that schoolteachers not presume that an 8-year-old “LGBT person” has the understanding to make such a decision.”

    The problem is with people like *you* thinking you *do* have the understanding to make such a decision on behalf of an eight year old you’ve never met, their parents, their doctors, and anyone else who doesn’t do what you would do. And mostly your opinions are based on crap you’ve just made up, to try to justify your prejudices.

    The problem is that choosing not to do anything is *also* a decision, and one that can have horrific consequences for the kid in question. But you never think about that. All that matters is that people conform to your demands.

    “For a pre-pubescent boy to want to be a girl is already “messed up””

    Yes, absolutely. The problem is that the brain is female, and the body male, but is it a girl born with the wrong body, or a boy born with the wrong brain?

    Objectively, all you can say is that different parts of them are inconsistent with one another. They’re a mixture of both sexes. But medical technology cannot do anything about re-wiring the brain, while fixing the body does stop them committing suicide in such high numbers, so from the point of view of reducing harm, fixing the body is the best they can do.

    TGs would certainly agree that they’re “messed up”. They just disagree about which bit of them is “wrong”.

    “this does not depend on the “hate” of anyone else;”

    No. Agreed. But when they get beaten up, assaulted, harassed, insulted, described as “freaks”, and rejected at every turn in life for the sin of not conforming to other people’s demands about how everyone is to live, that *does* depend on other people’s hate.

    “and it ought not be regarded as a given, with the rest of the world required to adjust to it”

    All you’re being required to do is treat them like everyone else of their gender.

    If the rules society imposes are doing immense harm to a group of people for no good reason (i.e. not to prevent any greater harm), then society is required to change its rules. Establishing this as a basic principle is to everyone’s advantage, because it means you can use the same principle to defend your own interests.


    “Well said. And in a similar vein, if anyone here refuses to accept* that I am Space Emperor Napoleon Boniface Bonaparte the Umpteenth and a 12 year old Nigerian of no fixed gender, then I will come round and spit at your children.”

    Under common law, you can change your name to whatever you like. That’s based on the same principle. Are you denying that freedom?

    “NIV – men cannot give birth. That’s a fact – only females can.”

    Hence the jargon of “sex” and “gender”. ‘Sex’ is about what’s between your legs, ‘gender’ is about what’s between your ears. It’s perfectly possible for someone of the female sex and male gender to give birth. And the legal principle is that where mind and body differ, the legal identity of the person is attached to the mind. A person is declared dead when their brain dies, even if the rest of the body is still alive. Donated organs are considered to belong to the person they’re donated to, they’re not still parts of the donor. They’re considered to be a male mind in a female body, and hence ‘male’.

    Other people can of course pick different definitions, but barring any clear reason for preferring them, nobody else has to pay any attention to their delusions.

    “He’s pretending – and in a sane society would be not given the encouragement to live this delusion.”

    He’s not pretending. Nobody would go through that level of pain and suffering voluntarily.

    “Take advice from an expert”

    He’s not an expert, he’s a partisan fruitcake. He gets the story wrong, repeatedly.

    — “stressed that the cultural meme, or idea that “one’s sex is fluid and a matter of choice” is extremely damaging, especially to young people.” The consensus position is that gender is *not* fluid or a matter of choice, it’s wired in to the brain. The problem is that some people are born with the wrong wiring, due to things like mutated genes for androgen receptor proteins.

    — “The idea that one’s sexuality is a feeling and not a biological fact” Same thing. Everyone agrees it is a biological fact. That’s the problem.

    — “They rarely find therapists who are willing to help them “work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions,” said McHugh. “Rather, they and their families find only ‘gender counselors’ who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.”” That’s because nobody else in the profession agrees with him. Because he’s a nutter.

    — ““As part of our dedication to protecting America’s youth, this administration supports efforts to ban the use of conversion therapy for minors,”” That’s the same shit they tried on the gays: electric shock torture ‘aversion therapy’ was used for a number of years, before everyone pointed out it didn’t work.

    — “However, there is plenty of evidence showing that “transgendering” is a “psychological rather than a biological matter,” said Dr. McHugh.” No, there isn’t.

    — “In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder,” No it isn’t. He’s confusing dysphoria with dysmorphia. They’re entirely distinct categories.

    — “Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction,” They treat anorexia with counselling because it sometimes works. They tried using counselling on TGs but it doesn’t work. That’s why they stopped using it.

    — “In fact, at Johns Hopkins, where they pioneered sex-change-surgery, “we demonstrated that the practice brought no important benefits,”” There are dozens of papers out there demonstrating clear benefits. Either he’s not reading the literature, or he’s being willfully blind, or he’s lying.

    — “Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers,” Bollocks! The background attempted suicide rate is 42%, what’s 20 x 42%?! The suicide rate drops with SRS.

    Pulling this sort of crap is like telling anxious parents that vaccination causes autism, or that mobile phones cause brain cancer. You can still find people who will try to “cure” homosexuality. It’s immensely damaging.

    The Soviet equivalent classified right-wing anti-Soviet tendencies as a mental illness, and incarcerated people who insisted that their right-wing beliefs were true. Be careful of what precedents you set.

  25. NiV–If you think that you are going to tire everybody out by attrition –guess again.

    ” Psychologist George Weinberg”

    Who was a leftist liberal SOS.

    ” invented the word in his book “Society and the Healthy Homosexual”. It was originally described as: “a phobia about homosexuals….It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.”

    Religion calls out sodomy since, living few, poor and miserable as most of humanity has for most of time, Humankind could not afford to waste time on antics that didn’t lead to reproduction. Much like white folks today.

    “However, the meaning has since mutated to a more general irrational aversion.”

    No the meaning has been taken by the scum of cultural Marxism –whose stooge you are and remain–and used to promote evil and tyranny.

    “For example, the Oxford English Dictionary define it “dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people”.

    So what?

    “Merriam-Webster: “irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.” Collins English Dictionary: “Homophobia is a strong and unreasonable dislike of homosexual people, especially homosexual men.”

    There is nothing irrational or unreasonable about disliking anyone whose behaviours and attitudes you disapprove of. You are living proof of that proposition NiV –just as much as the rest of us.–it is a choice. And when substantial numbers of whatever group are friends and active allies of socialist evil such animosity is entirely reasonable.

    “A lot of words change meaning over time. My usage is perfectly standard.”

    Especially when those words are hi-jacked in the service of evil and accepted by mugs like you NiV.

    “So will you stop with the “tranny” and “freak” name-calling? Or tell people who use such name-calling the same? No, I didn’t think so.”

    Quite right. I decide what I say not SJW cunts or any other fucker. Nor do I see any sign of any sort of forbearance amongst your leftist allies in their verbal abuse. Frankly nor do I care. I’d still call those I dislike.

    “It’s rank hypocrisy to moan like a snowflake about being called names while using language like that yourselves.”

    Whose moaning? Your crime–apart from being an SJW controlled marxian stooge– is the cod pseudo-science bullshit you rake up to “justify” your cockrot.

    ” If you spend all your time spitting on other people’s culture, you get yours spat upon.”

    Evil, tyranny and for that matter perversion are not “culture”.

    “The current state of our politics is that no one objects to a person playing the pretend game of his choice.”

    “Yes. You can *pretend* that TGs are deluded,”

    No–they ARE fucking deluded. The 46 year old punk who dresses like Shirley Temple and says he identifies as a six year old girl? Just fuck off. And fuck of with your scientism as well. You can’t have it both ways. Pseudo-science when it can be twisted to offer some seeming support to your tripe but marxian subjective “indentifies as” bullshit the rest of the time?

    “or that you’re still part of a moral majority in disapproving of them. You can talk about it all you like, just as the rest of society can point out why you’re wrong.”

    More of your lies and trickery NiV. “The rest of society” shares our views not yours and you can cod up all the bullshit leftist sociological “surveys” you like. You are still part of a tiny SJW controlled freak-show.

    ” But you don’t get to tell other people what to do, except to prevent direct harm.”

    No one is telling them anything except that. Which is why they aren’t going into women’s bogs. They also don’t tell us what our opinions will be.

    “The current battlefield is on proposals that everyone from bakers to little girls in the locker room be compelled to participate in the game of pretend”

    “You mean you’re being compelled to stop bullying them.
    And it’s not a “game of pretend” for them, whatever you may think.”

    The mentally ill are such if they can’t tell what is lets pretend. See I don’t care about the “6 year old” fool mentioned above so long as he doesn’t think that his delusions are going to see him sitting in the middle of a class of other peoples 6 year old daughters. He can play silly buggers with adults all he –and other willing adult fools–like.

    “and that schoolteachers not presume that an 8-year-old “LGBT person” has the understanding to make such a decision.”

    “The problem is with people like *you* thinking you *do* have the understanding to make such a decision on behalf of an eight year old you’ve never met, their parents, their doctors, and anyone else who doesn’t do what you would do. ”

    So in short NiV here we reach the essence of your evil. You are quite willing for young children to be brainwashed by Marxian bullshitters and to be lead into freakshow life. NO child of that age is competent to be making decisions about what path his adult life should take. Not when subject to the vile circus of perverted weirdos that are trying to influence such kids. Is the loopy fuckwit alleged singer “Pink” entitled to decide her kid is going to be gender-free? Because the bitch is up-her-own-arse enamoured with leftist politics? If you agree to that you are an evil man NiV–no question.

    “And mostly your opinions are based on crap you’ve just made up, to try to justify your prejudices.”

    Which would be about the same as yours. Once your cod science pretensions are debunked.

    “The problem is that choosing not to do anything is *also* a decision, and one that can have horrific consequences for the kid in question. But you never think about that. All that matters is that people conform to your demands.”

    And the only thing you are whining about is that kids aren’t being forced to conform to the tranny bullshit being peddled by you and your SJW owners.

    “For a pre-pubescent boy to want to be a girl is already “messed up””

    “Yes, absolutely. The problem is that the brain is female, and the body male, but is it a girl born with the wrong body, or a boy born with the wrong brain?”

    You say that bullshit NiV but the evidence is near zero save for your cockrot claims.

    “Objectively, all you can say is that different parts of them are inconsistent with one another. They’re a mixture of both sexes.”

    No they are not. Under pressure from leftoid scum they can claim any load of crap. Doesn’t make word one of it true.

    “But medical technology cannot do anything about re-wiring the brain, while fixing the body does stop them committing suicide in such high numbers, so from the point of view of reducing harm, fixing the body is the best they can do.”

    Sheer wickedness. Lots of them top themselves surgery or not. If adults pay for themselves–their business. But neither you nor your SJW masters should get anywhere near malleable kids.

    “TGs would certainly agree that they’re “messed up”. They just disagree about which bit of them is “wrong”.

    Yeah–cos the mentally ill are real good at self-diagnosis.

    “this does not depend on the “hate” of anyone else;”

    “No. Agreed. But when they get beaten up, assaulted, harassed, insulted, described as “freaks”, and rejected at every turn in life for the sin of not conforming to other people’s demands about how everyone is to live, that *does* depend on other people’s hate.”

    First of all who exactly is beating the shit out of trannys? Those who work as prossies and don’t clearly label what is going on may suffer some violence. Again not that likely as most trannies look like Desperate Dan in drag. But the idea that vast gangs of straights are roaming the streets looking for trans to batter is just left-hyped bullshit.

    “and it ought not be regarded as a given, with the rest of the world required to adjust to it”
    All you’re being required to do is treat them like everyone else of their gender.”

    They ARE being treated as the gender they ARE. That is your whinge . That the rest of us won’t accept Marxian subjectivist evil. You are the gender you are not the one you say you are. That you want such subjectivist evil to prevail–undermining all notions of objective reality–shows you plainly as a creature of the left. And a servant of evil.

    “If the rules society imposes are doing immense harm to a group of people for no good reason (i.e. not to prevent any greater harm),”

    Endangering women in toilets and twisting the minds of young kids are very great harms pal.

    ” then society is required to change its rules. ”

    By CM scum.

    “Establishing this as a basic principle is to everyone’s advantage, because it means you can use the same principle to defend your own interests.”

    So what part of morality does “defending my own interests” come under? Assuming of course I have a vast and deceitful gang (such as does the left) to push my interests.


    “Well said. And in a similar vein, if anyone here refuses to accept* that I am Space Emperor Napoleon Boniface Bonaparte the Umpteenth and a 12 year old Nigerian of no fixed gender, then I will come round and spit at your children.”

    “Under common law, you can change your name to whatever you like. That’s based on the same principle. Are you denying that freedom?”

    Changing a label and claiming that truth is lies and lies are truth are rather different NiV. Even a fool like you can see that.

    “NIV – men cannot give birth. That’s a fact – only females can.”

    “Hence the jargon of “sex” and “gender”. ‘Sex’ is about what’s between your legs, ‘gender’ is about what’s between your ears.”

    Pure SJW CM bullshit.

    ” It’s perfectly possible for someone of the female sex and male gender to give birth.”

    No womb/cunt no baby. You might give birth from between your ears NIV but only to abominations.

    ” And the legal principle is that where mind and body differ, the legal identity of the person is attached to the mind.”

    Care to quote the relevant law?

    “A person is declared dead when their brain dies, even if the rest of the body is still alive.”

    And the connection/relevance is?

    “Donated organs are considered to belong to the person they’re donated to, they’re not still parts of the donor.”

    You’re gonna donate your dick??

    ” They’re considered to be a male mind in a female body, and hence ‘male’.”

    Only by you and your SJW buddies.

    “Other people can of course pick different definitions, but barring any clear reason for preferring them, nobody else has to pay any attention to their delusions.”

    “He’s pretending – and in a sane society would be not given the encouragement to live this delusion.”

    “He’s not pretending. ”

    No he is deluded.

    “Nobody would go through that level of pain and suffering voluntarily.”

    Well if they chopped it off without anaesthetics you might have a point NiV. Or not. But depth of delusion is a side issue. They are still deluded as are you.

    “Take advice from an expert”
    “He’s not an expert, he’s a partisan fruitcake. He gets the story wrong, repeatedly.”

    So the expert who isn’t on your team isn’t an expert. Right.

    “— “stressed that the cultural meme, or idea that “one’s sex is fluid and a matter of choice” is extremely damaging, especially to young people.” The consensus position is that gender is *not* fluid or a matter of choice, it’s wired in to the brain. The problem is that some people are born with the wrong wiring, due to things like mutated genes for androgen receptor proteins.”

    More bullshit speculation based on tiny amounts of supposed “evidence” plus scientistic bullshitting.

    “— “The idea that one’s sexuality is a feeling and not a biological fact” Same thing. Everyone agrees it is a biological fact. That’s the problem.

    — “They rarely find therapists who are willing to help them “work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions,” said McHugh. “Rather, they and their families find only ‘gender counselors’ who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.”” That’s because nobody else in the profession agrees with him. Because he’s a nutter.”

    He don’t agree with you and your SJW masters–so “That bloke’s a nutter”. And you are unanimous on that– supported by a profession stuffed with leftist trash.

    “— ““As part of our dedication to protecting America’s youth, this administration supports efforts to ban the use of conversion therapy for minors,”” That’s the same shit they tried on the gays: electric shock torture ‘aversion therapy’ was used for a number of years, before everyone pointed out it didn’t work.”

    So how many homos were jazzed up NiV?–against their will that is. Because those volunteering for it because they didn’t like the (very likely imprinted ) emotions troubling them don’t really count. And are esp hated by the left as well.

    “— “However, there is plenty of evidence showing that “transgendering” is a “psychological rather than a biological matter,” said Dr. McHugh.” No, there isn’t.
    — “In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder,” No it isn’t. He’s confusing dysphoria with dysmorphia. They’re entirely distinct categories.”

    The map ain’t the territory NiV–conditions aren’t controlled by labels. The point he makes is sound.

    “— “Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction,” They treat anorexia with counselling because it sometimes works. They tried using counselling on TGs but it doesn’t work. That’s why they stopped using it.”

    Again massive claims. What would happen to anyone trying to treat trannies by psychological means in todays climate?

    “— “In fact, at Johns Hopkins, where they pioneered sex-change-surgery, “we demonstrated that the practice brought no important benefits,”” There are dozens of papers out there demonstrating clear benefits.”

    And there are dozens of books–also written by leftists–telling what a wonderous miracle socialism is . They are all shite.

    “Either he’s not reading the literature, or he’s being willfully blind, or he’s lying.”

    A big three alternatives there NiV. Could also be he’s read the lit and can recognise politically motivated ordure when he smells it.

    “— “Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers,” Bollocks! The background attempted suicide rate is 42%, what’s 20 x 42%?! The suicide rate drops with SRS.”

    The background suicide rate –of trans you mean rather than society–is 42 %.? That rather tells you something about their psyche does it not. And don’t give me any of that –“its cos you are so nasty to them” shite either. The suicide rate in death camps didn’t reach those kind of levels so you can’t pretend they are just normal , healthy ( even healthy homo) folks who would be fine if it wasn’t for non-SJWs being so wicked.

    “Pulling this sort of crap is like telling anxious parents that vaccination causes autism, or that mobile phones cause brain cancer. You can still find people who will try to “cure” homosexuality. It’s immensely damaging.”

    Are you on about trannies or homos–which is it. And people trying to cure people troubled by homosexual urges are working with people who want to be cured of such. A group also hated by the left.

    “The Soviet equivalent classified right-wing anti-Soviet tendencies as a mental illness, and incarcerated people who insisted that their right-wing beliefs were true. Be careful of what precedents you set.”

    Who is proposing jail for trannies NiV? You ? Cos you are the only one talking about it.

  26. @SS2:

    “… but there’s definitely a better option than turning your country into nothing more than a bunch of airports and malls connecting megafavelas and gated community Bantustans from sea to shining sea.”

    Steve wins the thread.

  27. “NiV–If you think that you are going to tire everybody out by attrition –guess again.”

    Do you think you’re going to tire *me* out? I enjoy our little debates!

    “Religion calls out sodomy since, living few, poor and miserable as most of humanity has for most of time, Humankind could not afford to waste time on antics that didn’t lead to reproduction.”

    What, you mean like art, literature, sport, cookery, watching TV, stamp collecting, exploring, …?

    Religion has called out sodomy since Moses the Slayer rampaged across the desert slaugtering everyone in his path, in his mission to elimate the eating of shellfish and the wearing of clothes of mixed fibres. It’s based on the ravings of a Bronze age theocratic authoritarian lunatic warlord.

    “No the meaning has been taken by the scum of cultural Marxism –whose stooge you are and remain–and used to promote evil and tyranny.”

    Authoritarians of the left are identical in motivation to authoritarians of the right. They only differ in what is compulsory and what is forbidden. Homophobia used to be a characteristic of the left – Marx and Engels both spoke out against it (in much the same way you do) and of course there was all that business with the pink triangles… There’s nothing inherently left-wing about support for or opposition to homosexuality. It’s simply that authoritarians of any stripe will seize on any excuse to tell other people what to do. They only support homosexuals because you oppose them, and it’s an easy way to make you look like hate-filled scum. You’re doing their work for them.

    “So what?”

    So that’s the generally accepted definition.

    “There is nothing irrational or unreasonable about disliking anyone whose behaviours and attitudes you disapprove of.”

    It depends on the reasons for the dislike/disapproval.

    Lots of people disapprove of and dislike homophobia, for example. But that’s not irrational, because it’s based on the harm done by such people to homosexuals, when homosexuals doing what consenting adults do are not harming anyone else.

    Whereas homophobia is largely based on nutty religious prohibitions that have been passed down by tradition, and which each generation continue to believe because that’s the way they were brought up.

    “And when substantial numbers of whatever group are friends and active allies of socialist evil such animosity is entirely reasonable.”

    Because you’re *driving* them into the arms of the socialists!!

    TGs live with evil every day. They’re persecuted and bullied endlessly. And which side is allying themselves with this evil? You are!

    You’re not doing it because they’re socialists, either. When Caitlyn Jenner turned out to be a Tea Party-supporting Republican, did you cut her any slack? No! Because you hate TGs more than you care about supporting your own side in the war against the socialists! There’s no wonder TGs turn to the left, when you’re pushing them that way!

    “Quite right. I decide what I say not SJW cunts or any other fucker. Nor do I see any sign of any sort of forbearance amongst your leftist allies in their verbal abuse. Frankly nor do I care. I’d still call those I dislike.”

    I agree that we don’t have to stop the name-calling. But the authoritarians on the left are not *my* allies. In the war between liberty and authoritarianism, they’re yours.

    “Whose moaning?”

    Spike was.

    “Your crime–apart from being an SJW controlled marxian stooge– is the cod pseudo-science bullshit you rake up to “justify” your cockrot.”

    Except that you’ve got no evidence it’s pseudo-science, or that it’s not you talking cock-rot. It’s just out-of-your-arsehole assertions and “shouting louder”. You know nothing. You’ve got nothing. You just keep on re-asserting your delusions in the belief that sufficient repetition of them constitutes an argument.

    “Evil, tyranny and for that matter perversion are not “culture”.”

    Your evil. Your tyranny.

    “No–they ARE fucking deluded.”

    No they’re fucking not.

    “And fuck of with your scientism as well. You can’t have it both ways. Pseudo-science when it can be twisted to offer some seeming support to your tripe but marxian subjective “indentifies as” bullshit the rest of the time?”

    I’m not *trying* to have it both ways.

    “More of your lies and trickery NiV. “The rest of society” shares our views not yours and you can cod up all the bullshit leftist sociological “surveys” you like.”

    Ha! Ha! “Damn your hard evidence, I know because I can just feeeel it.”

    “No one is telling them anything except that. Which is why they aren’t going into women’s bogs.”

    You’re contradicting yourself.

    “The mentally ill are such if they can’t tell what is lets pretend.”

    Homophobia and transphobia are mental illnesses. They’re delusional systems that are immune to any level of contrary evidence. People with delusions will dismiss any surveys proving them wrong, any number medical experts saying they’re wrong, any genetic studies, or brain scans, or hormonal tests saying they’re wrong. They’ll dismiss anything that disagrees with their delusional system as part of a global conspiracy by their enemies to subvert all the evidence. But they are generally unable to present any actual evidence for their own beliefs. A point they explain by citing the bias of everyone researching it. They just know, because it’s “obvious”.

    It’s a classic set of symptoms for schizophrenic delusions. Seriously.

    “So in short NiV here we reach the essence of your evil. You are quite willing for young children to be brainwashed by Marxian bullshitters and to be lead into freakshow life.”

    You’re the ones treating it as a “freakshow”.

    “NO child of that age is competent to be making decisions about what path his adult life should take.”

    Which is why, as you know because we’ve discussed it many times, the decision is delayed until they’re old enough.

    But my point is that it’s *you* who are trying to make that decision for them, overiding the parents, the doctors, the legislators, the majority of the population, and the child themselves! You’ve made your decision, which you consider to be unquestionable, and are outraged that parents, doctors, and the children themselves are allowed to come to any other decision! That’s the pure evil of authoritarianism.

    “Is the loopy fuckwit alleged singer “Pink” entitled to decide her kid is going to be gender-free?”

    Ah yes! Parental responsibility! Parents make decisions on behalf of their children, not the state, and not society, and certainly not a bunch of busybody authoritarians who want to insist that everyone else brings up their children as they tell them to.

    If you don’t want the State to be able to tell you how you’re allowed to bring up your own children – what beliefs you’re allowed to teach them – then don’t fucking tell other people what they’re “entitled” to teach their own kids! That’s more naked authoritarianism.

    “Which would be about the same as yours. Once your cod science pretensions are debunked.”

    So go ahead and debunk them. Do the work.

    “You say that bullshit NiV but the evidence is near zero save for your cockrot claims.”

    Unsupported assertion.

    “No they are not. Under pressure from leftoid scum they can claim any load of crap.”

    Unsupported assertion, and conspiracy theory.

    “Sheer wickedness. Lots of them top themselves surgery or not.”

    Yes, because despite the surgery they still get bullied by the wicked authoritarians, who simply cannot tolerate dissent from their demands, no matter to what lengths people go. The statistics are clear – the primary variables related to suicide risk are social and family acceptance/support.

    They’re topping themselves because of people like you; that’s what I’d consider sheer wickedness.

    “Yeah–cos the mentally ill are real good at self-diagnosis.”

    You don’t appear to be.

    “First of all who exactly is beating the shit out of trannys?”

    Oddly enough, I think the largest category mentioned in the survey was the police.

    “Again not that likely as most trannies look like Desperate Dan in drag.”

    Most of them don’t. And it’s irrelevant anyway what they look like.

    “But the idea that vast gangs of straights are roaming the streets looking for trans to batter is just left-hyped bullshit.”

    There aren’t vast gangs. There’s probably about 0.1% of the population who would go as far as assaulting someone. But if you go out in public and meet 50-100 people a day (the population of a reasonable sized bar or club), it doesn’t take long before you run into one.

    “They ARE being treated as the gender they ARE.”

    Assertion. And obviously false by definition.

    “You are the gender you are not the one you say you are.”

    Er. Yes. People are the gender they *are*, not the gender *you* say they are. *Your* subjectivism, based on no evidence whatsoever, does not override their own observations of the state of their own mind.

    You think that you can tell people that they’re wrong about what’s in their own minds?! That your subjective opinion is better evidence than their direct experiences? Authoritarian arrogance!

    “Endangering women in toilets and twisting the minds of young kids are very great harms pal.”

    TGs don’t endanger women in toilets – that’s bullshit you just made up (the authoritarians’ Group A Group B trick), and contradicted by the statistics in every place it’s been tried. And trying to force a transgender kid to believe they’re cisgender, just to satisfy your twisted beliefs about how people are, is a harm that kills 42% of those kids.

    “By CM scum.”

    By JS Mill’s Harm Principle.

    “So what part of morality does “defending my own interests” come under?”

    See JS Mill. He wrote a lot about the issue.

    “Changing a label and claiming that truth is lies and lies are truth are rather different NiV. Even a fool like you can see that.”

    But people disagree on which are lies and which are truth, which is why people are given the liberty to tell untruths, in order that the truth can never be silenced.

    To try to silence people who speak what *you* consider to be untruth, (and then moan when they do the same to you,) is to oppose the liberty of free speech.

    You are claiming your lies are truth and my truth is lies. Of course I can see the difference.

    “Pure SJW CM bullshit.”

    More unsupported assertion.

    “No womb/cunt no baby. You might give birth from between your ears NIV but only to abominations.”

    I don’t disagree. Strawman.

    “Care to quote the relevant law?”

    You want to look up the Department of Health’s “A Code of Practice for the Diagnosis of Brain Stem Death”.

    “And the connection/relevance is?”

    And the connection is that it operates by the same principle – the ‘legal person’ is associated with the mind, not the body.

    “Only by you and your SJW buddies.”

    And the medical profession, and about 87% of the population.

    More unsupported assertion. Unless the majority of people are SJWs, which they’re not, it’s obviously false.

    “No he is deluded.”

    Unsupported assertion.

    “Well if they chopped it off without anaesthetics you might have a point NiV. Or not.”

    Some do.

    “But depth of delusion is a side issue. They are still deluded as are you.”

    No they’re not.

    “So the expert who isn’t on your team isn’t an expert. Right.”

    Wrong. The “expert” who got their opponent’s position entirely backward clearly isn’t an expert.

    The standard position is that gender is fixed, and not a matter of choice. For him to start off by criticising the claim that gender is fluid and down to choice means he’s completely misunderstood the entire point of the argument he claims to be refuting, and evidently doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    He’s not an expert.

    “More bullshit speculation based on tiny amounts of supposed “evidence” plus scientistic bullshitting.”

    Unsupported assertion.

    “He don’t agree with you and your SJW masters–so “That bloke’s a nutter”. And you are unanimous on that– supported by a profession stuffed with leftist trash.”

    So show me your evidence – surveys, whatever – on the percentage of the medical community that are left or right. Let’s see, did you just make that up, or do you have data?

    “So how many homos were jazzed up NiV?–against their will that is. Because those volunteering for it because they didn’t like the (very likely imprinted ) emotions troubling them don’t really count.”

    Are you going to claim that torture in the name of your deluded politics is OK so long as it’s only of a small number?

    “The map ain’t the territory NiV–conditions aren’t controlled by labels. The point he makes is sound.”

    No it’s not. He was talking about the map. But he’s reading it wrong.

    “Again massive claims. What would happen to anyone trying to treat trannies by psychological means in todays climate? “

    They’d point out that they were using a treatment that was already known not to work – like acupuncture or homeopathy.

    “And there are dozens of books–also written by leftists–telling what a wonderous miracle socialism is . They are all shite.”

    That’s because they don’t have any evidence. Like you.

    “A big three alternatives there NiV. Could also be he’s read the lit and can recognise politically motivated ordure when he smells it.”

    No. It’s not that he’s disagreeing with the literature and presenting evidence to support his disagreement. He’s simply denying that it exists.

    “The background suicide rate –of trans you mean rather than society–is 42 %.? That rather tells you something about their psyche does it not.”

    Yes. And the statistics also show that it’s the bullying that causes the suicides. If they’re not bullied, the suicide rate drops 76%.

    http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2

    Among trans Ontarians, 35.1 % (95 % CI: 27.6, 42.5) seriously considered, and 11.2 % (95 % CI: 6.0, 16.4) attempted, suicide in the past year. Social support, reduced transphobia, and having any personal identification documents changed to an appropriate sex designation were associated with large relative and absolute reductions in suicide risk, as was completing a medical transition through hormones and/or surgeries (when needed). Parental support for gender identity was associated with reduced ideation. Lower self-reported transphobia (10th versus 90th percentile) was associated with a 66 % reduction in ideation (RR?=?0.34, 95 % CI: 0.17, 0.67), and an additional 76 % reduction in attempts among those with ideation (RR?=?0.24; 95 % CI: 0.07, 0.82). This corresponds to potential prevention of 160 ideations per 1000 trans persons, and 200 attempts per 1,000 with ideation, based on a hypothetical reduction of transphobia from current levels to the 10th percentile.

    “And don’t give me any of that –“its cos you are so nasty to them” shite either. The suicide rate in death camps didn’t reach those kind of levels so you can’t pretend they are just normal , healthy ( even healthy homo) folks who would be fine if it wasn’t for non-SJWs being so wicked.”

    Interesting point.

    The people in the death camps had each other for psychological support and they only had to endure to the end of the war. But I suspect that a lot of those people were simply recorded as dying for other reasons.

    “And people trying to cure people troubled by homosexual urges are working with people who want to be cured of such. A group also hated by the left.”

    Fuck the left. This is about the fact that it doesn’t work.

    “Who is proposing jail for trannies NiV?”

    moqifen: “In a sane world “it” would be locked up- not pandered to.”

    “You ? Cos you are the only one talking about it.”

    Lie.

  28. NiV–If you think that you are going to tire everybody out by attrition –guess again.”> (For clarity:^^=my orig quotes “”=NiV’s bullshit )

    “Do you think you’re going to tire *me* out? I enjoy our little debates!”

    I will match you punch for punch SJW. But I’m not going to keep giving you the chance to re-cycle your tired mix of the same lie and delusion over and over. So one more time on this one.

    ^^“Religion calls out sodomy since, living few, poor and miserable as most of humanity has for most of time, Humankind could not afford to waste time on antics that didn’t lead to reproduction.”^^

    “What, you mean like art, literature, sport, cookery, watching TV, stamp collecting, exploring, …?”

    Cos hunter-gatherers had lots of time for those–which is why we keep tripping over 100,000 year old remains of concert halls and the like.

    “Religion has called out sodomy since Moses the Slayer rampaged across the desert slaugtering everyone in his path, in his mission to elimate the eating of shellfish and the wearing of clothes of mixed fibres. It’s based on the ravings of a Bronze age theocratic authoritarian lunatic warlord.”

    Blah,blah — save it for the atheism debate. You try to mix up the first “civilisation” with the desperate and dangerous life of h/g’s –classically nasty, brutish and short. Only with a tiny amount of leisure did elites have a chance to foster the practice of assorted sex antics.

    ^^“No the meaning has been taken by the scum of cultural Marxism –whose stooge you are and remain–and used to promote evil and tyranny.”^^

    “Authoritarians of the left are identical in motivation to authoritarians of the right.” They only differ in what is compulsory and what is forbidden. ”

    Why do you keep throwing in this non-sequetor bullshit? Have I suggested–ever–that homos be arrested etc? Or trannies–apart from those who try to trick/force their way into the ladies or hang around kids. No–so kindly address your idiocy to the points I actually made.

    “Homophobia used to be a characteristic of the left – Marx and Engels both spoke out against it ”

    Against homo-so-called phobia? Really?

    “(in much the same way you do)”

    You’re getting mixed up again NiV.

    ” and of course there was all that business with the pink triangles… There’s nothing inherently left-wing about support for or opposition to homosexuality. ”

    They have weaponised it thro’ brain-washed chumps like you–who say the are unaffected by programming while doing the left’s dirty work.

    “It’s simply that authoritarians of any stripe will seize on any excuse to tell other people what to do.”

    I haven’t apart from telling you and your SJW mates that you aren’t invading the ladies or unleashing a propaganda storm on 6 year olds. And that is telling you what you aren’t going to do. What you get up to with adults is your business. However much I despise both you and your “values”.

    ” They only support homosexuals because you oppose them, and it’s an easy way to make you look like hate-filled scum. You’re doing their work for them.”

    Disliking others habits makes me hateful only to SJWs like you who are already full of hate. Your tripe about mass support is just tripe. And never mind unsupported assertions. Your bullshit “studies” are from social “science” a leftist-filled profession now under fire for its lack of rigour.

    https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2015/11/the_trouble_with_social_science_statistics.html

    ^^“So what?”^^

    “So that’s the generally accepted definition.”

    By the lazy and hard of thought.

    ^^“There is nothing irrational or unreasonable about disliking anyone whose behaviours and attitudes you disapprove of.”^^

    “It depends on the reasons for the dislike/disapproval.”

    So if you approve that would make things ok.

    “Lots of people disapprove of and dislike homophobia, for example.”

    Lots of people are morons. Truth is not decided by numbers.

    ” But that’s not irrational, because it’s based on the harm done by such people to homosexuals,”

    People who dislike homophoboics (sic–and you are) are harming homos? Are you on something NiV cos you are making even less sense than usual. I get what you are trying to say but your mental mixup is getting worse.

    “when homosexuals doing what consenting adults do are not harming anyone else.”

    Never said adults were–so long as it is all volunteers.

    Just for the record –what has all this talk of sodomy got to do with trannies again?

    “Whereas homophobia is largely based on nutty religious prohibitions that have been passed down by tradition, and which each generation continue to believe because that’s the way they were brought up.””

    Err…no. It is based on an innate visceral flesh-crawl such as most people would get if their minds threw up the ugly image of dining on a shit sandwich. I am not an overly religious man nor a Jew and I care nothing for the opinions of Moses but I still think arseholes should just be for expelling shite. Tho’ in your case it seems to be a keyboard that you make use of.

    ^^“And when substantial numbers of whatever group are friends and active allies of socialist evil such animosity is entirely reasonable.”^^

    “Because you’re *driving* them into the arms of the socialists!!”

    And how is that exactly in a society that all but panders to sodomy despite the fact far more people agree with me than you–regardless of your bogus social science twaddle.

    “TGs live with evil every day. They’re persecuted and bullied endlessly.”

    If you chose to make yourself look like an idiot then you are asking for trouble. Human cruelty is what it is and most people suffer from some of it in life. If you also choose to make yourself look foolish by dragging up etc–well you should expect problems. If a fool such as you NiV decides to identify as Batman and went around everywhere in the outfit you should expect to be the butt of humour and a target for free-floating aggression. Just as someone who climbs tall buildings makes falling off one that much more likely. I don’t agree with mocking the afflicted–at least to their face– but life is what it is not what fools think it should be.

    “And which side is allying themselves with this evil? You are! ”

    Only by your twisted standards.

    “You’re not doing it because they’re socialists, either. ”

    Really–good job you know my mental processes better than I do.

    “When Caitlyn Jenner turned out to be a Tea Party-supporting Republican, did you cut her any slack? ”

    So an obnoxious individual –for that is what Brucie is regardless of his sex delusions–agrees with a tiny fraction of my beliefs. So what? Why should I give regard to a so-called Tea Partist who is actually giving vastly more aid and comfort to marxian subjectivism by his publicly proclaimed nonsense. You sqwark about being a libertarian Nivve but you are much more an SJW stooge than anything else.

    “No! Because you hate TGs more than you care about supporting your own side in the war against the socialists! ”

    A supporter and proclaimer of subjectivist bullshit is ON the side of socialism not working against it in any way shape or form. Whether he attends the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party or any other. Brucie is likely too dim to understand that but I’m not.

    “There’s no wonder TGs turn to the left, when you’re pushing them that way!”

    How does my disdain for a washed up weirdo like Bruce force trannies to do anything? Nor do I drive around the streets with a megaphone car slagging any DDIDs ( Desperate Dans In Drag) I see. Which is so far none anyway. Provincial life eh?

    ^^“Quite right. I decide what I say not SJW cunts or any other fucker. Nor do I see any sign of any sort of forbearance amongst your leftist allies in their verbal abuse. Frankly nor do I care. I’d still call those I dislike.”^^

    “I agree that we don’t have to stop the name-calling. But the authoritarians on the left are not *my* allies. In the war between liberty and authoritarianism, they’re yours.”

    And anyone not accepting your bullshit is an authoritarian how? If I refuse to believe you are Batman–regardless of how heavily you are into playing dress-up–that makes me the KGB?

    ^^“Whose moaning?”^^

    “Spike was.”

    He can speak for himself.

    ^^“Your crime–apart from being an SJW controlled marxian stooge– is the cod pseudo-science bullshit you rake up to “justify” your cockrot.”^^

    “Except that you’ve got no evidence it’s pseudo-science, or that it’s not you talking cock-rot. It’s just out-of-your-arsehole assertions and “shouting louder”. You know nothing. You’ve got nothing. You just keep on re-asserting your delusions in the belief that sufficient repetition of them constitutes an argument.”

    The very mirror-image of my point. All of the above is just as true of you and your tripe.

    ^^“Evil, tyranny and for that matter perversion are not “culture”.”^^

    “Your evil. Your tyranny.”

    My evil consists of what? Not agreeing with you–despite your absolute lack of evidence.

    ^^“No–they ARE fucking deluded.”^^

    “No they’re fucking not.”

    Oh yes they fucking are. But you are not. You are evil. You knowingly and willingly support subjectivist evil.

    ^^“And fuck of with your scientism as well. You can’t have it both ways. Pseudo-science when it can be twisted to offer some seeming support to your tripe but marxian subjective “indentifies as” bullshit the rest of the time?”^^

    “I’m not *trying* to have it both ways.”

    And how is that since it is clear that is exactly what you are about.

    ^^“More of your lies and trickery NiV. “The rest of society” shares our views not yours and you can cod up all the bullshit leftist sociological “surveys” you like.”^^

    “Ha! Ha! “Damn your hard evidence, I know because I can just feeeel it.”

    In true SJW style you project your own nonsense on to me.. You are a boo-hooing Mr Feelz but claim it is I.

    “No one is telling them anything except that. Which is why they aren’t going into women’s bogs.”

    “You’re contradicting yourself.”

    No I clearly said that apart from women’s bogs and getting anywhere near kids adult trans can do what the Hell they like.

    ^^“The mentally ill are such if they can’t tell what is lets pretend.”^^

    “Homophobia and transphobia are mental illnesses.”

    Sez you– you arrogant twat.

    “They’re delusional systems that are immune to any level of contrary evidence.”

    Contrary evidence of what exactly? Evidence that people who don’t want anything to do with certain sex antics either really do or really should? Cos you and leftoid scum say so?

    ” People with delusions will dismiss any surveys proving them wrong, any number medical experts saying they’re wrong, any genetic studies, or brain scans, or hormonal tests saying they’re wrong.”

    You don’t even have any of that chum. Surveys telling you that you should stick a cucumber up your arse because 51 % of people surveyed enjoyed it does not –and indeed should not–alter the opinions of the cucumber averse.

    Nor do you have any scientistic evidence. You have the results of experiments–repeated and replicated how often?–which you SAY show that you are right. There is no indication that your ideas of what means what are Gospel truth. Outside your righteous brainpan. Gene A and Hormone B prove sod all. Legions of non-trans might have exactly the same for all you and the whitecoated wankers know.

    “They’ll dismiss anything that disagrees with their delusional system as part of a global conspiracy by their enemies to subvert all the evidence.”

    You are just rambling now.

    “But they are generally unable to present any actual evidence for their own beliefs.”

    And neither can you.

    “A point they explain by citing the bias of everyone researching it. They just know, because it’s “obvious”.

    With social science bullshit– a “field” totally filled with leftist scum whose dodgy methods are coming under ever greater scrutiny–the bias is obvious. And as for the whitecoats –see above.

    “It’s a classic set of symptoms for schizophrenic delusions. Seriously.”

    If I didn’t take the danger of you infecting others with your delusions seriously I wouldn’t be wasting my time writing this.

    ^^“So in short NiV here we reach the essence of your evil. You are quite willing for young children to be brainwashed by Marxian bullshitters and to be lead into freakshow life.”^^

    “You’re the ones treating it as a “freakshow”.

    Cos it is.

    ^^“NO child of that age is competent to be making decisions about what path his adult life should take.”^^

    “Which is why, as you know because we’ve discussed it many times, the decision is delayed until they’re old enough.”

    Then don’t be standing silent while BluLab and the Girl Guides and the rest of the SJW-controlled hand out tranny lessons for 6 year olds then.

    “But my point is that it’s *you* who are trying to make that decision for them,”

    Consider:

    “overiding the parents,”

    And if parents abuse their kids –beat them etc– should nothing be done? I DON’T like outside let alone state meddling but bashing kids minds with CM wickedness is at least as wrong as punching them.

    ” the doctors, the legislators,”

    SJW fashion-stooges.

    ” the majority of the population,”

    That’s just your lies

    ” and the child themselves!”

    The vast,vast majority of kids are quite happy with what sex they are and wouldn’t even trouble themselves about it were it not for your gang NiV.

    “You’ve made your decision, which you consider to be unquestionable, and are outraged that parents, doctors, and the children themselves are allowed to come to any other decision!”

    None of the above piffle has anything to do with demented agitators like you trying to persuade kids to your poison viewpoint.

    “That’s the pure evil of authoritarianism.”

    Again that = Not endorsing your delusions.

    “Is the loopy fuckwit alleged singer “Pink” entitled to decide her kid is going to be gender-free?”

    “Ah yes! Parental responsibility! Parents make decisions on behalf of their children, not the state, and not society, and certainly not a bunch of busybody authoritarians who want to insist that everyone else brings up their children as they tell them to.”

    As I said the bitch is up herself with trendy leftist bullshit. Obviously a good reason to fuck her kids life up. Has the Father been asked about her choice I wonder?

    “If you don’t want the State to be able to tell you how you’re allowed to bring up your own children – what beliefs you’re allowed to teach them – then don’t fucking tell other people what they’re “entitled” to teach their own kids! That’s more naked authoritarianism.”

    Never suggested that she should be prevented from destroying her kid. Just that she is a cunt for so doing. As are you for your smiling approval of her choice.Again as above I suspect no one gives a shit about the Father’s opinion.

    ^^“Which would be about the same as yours. Once your cod science pretensions are debunked.”^^

    “So go ahead and debunk them. Do the work.”

    Already done so above.

    ^^“You say that bullshit NiV but the evidence is near zero save for your cockrot claims.”^^

    “Unsupported assertion.”

    Just like yours.

  29. ^^“No they are not. Under pressure from leftoid scum they can claim any load of crap.”^^

    “Unsupported assertion,”

    Ditto

    “and conspiracy theory.”

    Yeah cos SJW bullshit spewed everyday isn’t attempted influence is it. You don’t even have enough common sense to cover a comma.

    ^^“Sheer wickedness. Lots of them top themselves surgery or not.”^^

    “Yes, because despite the surgery they still get bullied by the wicked authoritarians, ”

    Yeah–I’m sure ALL of us have bullied several trans to death this year alone. You delusional fuckwit.

    “who simply cannot tolerate dissent from their demands,”

    The only demand being that they keep out of ladies toilets. Yeah –legions must have committed suicide over that.

    “no matter to what lengths people go.”

    ? English translation please.

    “The statistics are clear – the primary variables related to suicide risk are social and family acceptance/support.”

    I feel sorry for such unfortunates. As do I’m sure do most of their families. But the important fact is this: TRUTH IS TRUTH. I won’t deny truth for feelz. Screw compassion. There is NO compassion in destroying the world by accepting the evil of subjectivism. If someone can’t stand that they are what they are and decides to perish that is a shame but their choice. Two plus two still and always shall equal four. Not five because scum say it does.

    “They’re topping themselves because of people like you; that’s what I’d consider sheer wickedness.?”

    What absolute bullshit. I won’t accept lies as truth. You are not something you are not because you say you are. Two and two does not make five and fuck all bleeding hearts like you. Truth is and you will not succeed in destroying that. Regardless of who tops themselves.

    “Yeah–cos the mentally ill are real good at self-diagnosis.”

    “You don’t appear to be.”

    And yet I have you pegged for the dross you are.

    ^^“First of all who exactly is beating the shit out of trannys?”^^

    “Oddly enough, I think the largest category mentioned in the survey was the police.”

    The Police. Our dear PC controlled, Common Purpose owned Plod are dishing it out to trannies left, right and centre are they?

    Got some names, cases etc–above one or two in number preferably Mr Evidence.

    ^^“Again not that likely as most trannies look like Desperate Dan in drag.”^^

    “Most of them don’t.”

    Yes they do. Brucie is a fairly typical example of those I’ve seen on TV( no pun intended). Real life merchants–not comedy intended draggers like the Widow Twanky type drag-ups.

    “And it’s irrelevant anyway what they look like.”

    No it isn’t. DDiDs are setting themselves up as weirds. Proclaiming the untruth at their heart to everybody to see so to speak.

    ^^“But the idea that vast gangs of straights are roaming the streets looking for trans to batter is just left-hyped bullshit.”^^

    “There aren’t vast gangs. There’s probably about 0.1% of the population who would go as far as assaulting someone.”

    Glad you agree.

    “But if you go out in public and meet 50-100 people a day (the population of a reasonable sized bar or club), it doesn’t take long before you run into one.”

    That is true of anybody. Spend lots of time in boozy shithole dives and your chances of being assaulted rise markedly. Draw attention to yourself and your chances rise again. I bet a normal flashing cash in dives stands a considerably higher chance of being battered than any tran.

    ^^“They ARE being treated as the gender they ARE.”^^

    “Assertion. And obviously false by definition.”

    marxist subjectivist evil.

    ^^“You are the gender you are not the one you say you are.”^^

    “Er. Yes. People are the gender they *are*, not the gender *you* say they are. ”

    They are the gender their body says they are.

    “Your* subjectivism, based on no evidence whatsoever, ”

    Your dick may indeed be nothing whatsoever but speak for yourself. Mind has nothing to do with it..

    “You think that you can tell people that they’re wrong about what’s in their own minds?! ”

    Mind does not decide. The body does.

    “That your subjective opinion is better evidence than their direct experiences? Authoritarian arrogance!”

    And you’re Batman –cos you decide you are. Fuck off Bats.

    ^^Endangering women in toilets and twisting the minds of young kids are very great harms pal.”^^

    “TGs don’t endanger women in toilets – that’s bullshit you just made up (the authoritarians’ Group A Group B trick), ”

    Had this debate so many times–so many times I have said that not Trans as such but the perverts they hold the door open for are the issue. You are conning again.

    ” contradicted by the statistics in every place it’s been tried. And trying to force a transgender kid to believe they’re cisgender, just to satisfy your twisted beliefs about how people are, is a harm that kills 42% of those kids.”

    Bullfucking shit. The pandering of garbage like you likely does more harm by stirring a pot of impossible delusion and false destructive hope.

    ^^By CM scum.”^^

    “By JS Mill’s Harm Principle.”

    Said principle would keep trans out of the ladies and SJW scum away from 6 year olds.

    “So what part of morality does “defending my own interests” come under?”

    See JS Mill. He wrote a lot about the issue.

    ^^“Changing a label and claiming that truth is lies and lies are truth are rather different NiV. Even a fool like you can see that.”^^

    “But people disagree on which are lies and which are truth”

    Some body has to be nearer to the truth if not dead on. It isn’t you.

    “which is why people are given the liberty to tell untruths,”

    You talking about yourself?

    ” in order that the truth can never be silenced.”

    You are working on doing just that every day.

    “To try to silence people who speak what *you* consider to be untruth, (and then moan when they do the same to you,) is to oppose the liberty of free speech.”

    I’m sick of your bullshit but I have opposed your brainless evil not tried to silence you.

    “You are claiming your lies are truth and my truth is lies. Of course I can see the difference.”

    Vice versa.

    “Pure SJW CM bullshit.”

    “More unsupported assertion.”

    It’ll be the inscription on your gravestone NiV-0-take it as Gospel.

    ^^“No womb/cunt no baby. You might give birth from between your ears NIV but only to abominations.”^^

    “I don’t disagree. Strawman.”

    “Care to quote the relevant law?”

    You want to look up the Department of Health’s “A Code of Practice for the Diagnosis of Brain Stem Death”.

    Not the death bit–this bit ” And the legal principle is that where mind and body differ, the legal identity of the person is attached to the mind.” How do mind and body differ as to identity please–as a matter of law not your malarkey. Unless your malark has been made law in which case it needs to be unmade double quick.

    ^^“And the connection/relevance is?”^^

    “And the connection is that it operates by the same principle – the ‘legal person’ is associated with the mind, not the body.”

    Section, paragraph etc please. I don’t believe that the law says this nor can I think of any area that it could apply other than leftists having written your trans crap into law. Quite possible with the FishFaced Cow on the job.

    ^^“Only by you and your SJW buddies.”^^

    “And the medical profession, and about 87% of the population.”

    Your standard lies.

    “More unsupported assertion. Unless the majority of people are SJWs, which they’re not, it’s obviously false.”

    You are 87% tripe NiV.

    ^^“No he is deluded.”^^

    “Unsupported assertion.”

    Physical reality gives you and him the lie NiV. Squirm all you like.

    ^^“Well if they chopped it off without anaesthetics you might have a point NiV. Or not.”^^

    “Some do.”

    Wait up-I’ll get my violin.

    ^^“But depth of delusion is a side issue. They are still deluded as are you.”^^

    “No they’re not.”

    Yes they are.

    ^^“So the expert who isn’t on your team isn’t an expert. Right.”^^

    “Wrong. The “expert” who got their opponent’s position entirely backward clearly isn’t an expert.
    The standard position is that gender is fixed, and not a matter of choice. For him to start off by criticising the claim that gender is fluid and down to choice means he’s completely misunderstood the entire point of the argument he claims to be refuting, and evidently doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”

    That paragraph literally makes no sense.

    “He’s not an expert.”

    Of course not–he doesn’t agree with you and the SJWs.

    ^^“More bullshit speculation based on tiny amounts of supposed “evidence” plus scientistic bullshitting.”^^

    “Unsupported assertion.”

    Read on McNutt.

    ^^“He don’t agree with you and your SJW masters–so “That bloke’s a nutter”. And you are unanimous on that– supported by a profession stuffed with leftist trash.”^^

    “So show me your evidence – surveys, whatever – on the percentage of the medical community that are left or right. Let’s see, did you just make that up, or do you have data?”

    Again you distort to deceive. Either you can’t comprehend what you read or you know well that the “profession” I spoke of was the social “sciences” not medicine in general.

    ^^“So how many homos were jazzed up NiV?–against their will that is. Because those volunteering for it because they didn’t like the (very likely imprinted ) emotions troubling them don’t really count.”^^

    “Are you going to claim that torture in the name of your deluded politics is OK so long as it’s only of a small number?”

    I’m claiming it is likely none in the West –but lets have your count and examples.

    ^^“The map ain’t the territory NiV–conditions aren’t controlled by labels. The point he makes is sound.”^^

    “No it’s not. He was talking about the map. But he’s reading it wrong.”

    Sez you.

    ^^“Again massive claims. What would happen to anyone trying to treat trannies by psychological means in todays climate? “^^

    “They’d point out that they were using a treatment that was already known not to work – like acupuncture or homeopathy.”

    Acupuncture has considerable success chalked up to it. That you believe it “disproved” indicates the piss-poor “science” you cleave to.

    ^^“And there are dozens of books–also written by leftists–telling what a wonderous miracle socialism is . They are all shite.”^^

    “That’s because they don’t have any evidence. Like you.”

    And you.

    ^^“A big three alternatives there NiV. Could also be he’s read the lit and can recognise politically motivated ordure when he smells it.”^^

    “No. It’s not that he’s disagreeing with the literature and presenting evidence to support his disagreement. He’s simply denying that it exists.”

    He doesn’t have to refute “proof” that doesn’t exist.

    ^^“The background suicide rate –of trans you mean rather than society–is 42 %.? That rather tells you something about their psyche does it not.”^^

    “Yes. And the statistics also show that it’s the bullying that causes the suicides. If they’re not bullied, the suicide rate drops 76%.”

    And this was “proved” how exactly?

    “http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2

    Among trans Ontarians, 35.1 % (95 % CI: 27.6, 42.5) seriously considered, and 11.2 % (95 % CI: 6.0, 16.4) attempted, suicide in the past year. Social support, reduced transphobia, and having any personal identification documents changed to an appropriate sex designation were associated with large relative and absolute reductions in suicide risk, as was completing a medical transition through hormones and/or surgeries (when needed). Parental support for gender identity was associated with reduced ideation. Lower self-reported transphobia (10th versus 90th percentile) was associated with a 66 % reduction in ideation (RR?=?0.34, 95 % CI: 0.17, 0.67), and an additional 76 % reduction in attempts among those with ideation (RR?=?0.24; 95 % CI: 0.07, 0.82). This corresponds to potential prevention of 160 ideations per 1000 trans persons, and 200 attempts per 1,000 with ideation, based on a hypothetical reduction of transphobia from current levels to the 10th percentile.”

    “Was associated with”–doesn’t say how exactly does it? And uses more than enough leftist buzz words to make it very clear which side these social science con-men are on.

    Come back with some real proof NiV. Stat-crap from SS liars doesn’t cut it.

    ^^“And don’t give me any of that –“its cos you are so nasty to them” shite either. The suicide rate in death camps didn’t reach those kind of levels so you can’t pretend they are just normal , healthy ( even healthy homo) folks who would be fine if it wasn’t for non-SJWs being so wicked.”^^

    Interesting point.

    “The people in the death camps had each other for psychological support and they only had to endure to the end of the war. But I suspect that a lot of those people were simply recorded as dying for other reasons.”

    What’s the word I’m looking for.

    Proof.

    ^^“And people trying to cure people troubled by homosexual urges are working with people who want to be cured of such. A group also hated by the left.”^^

    “Fuck the left.”

    You don’t fool anyone with that. The SJWs own you.

    “This is about the fact that it doesn’t work.”

    And you know this how? More stats from the CM/SS axis? Do the world a favour and just stop.

    ^^“Who is proposing jail for trannies NiV?”^^

    “moqifen: “In a sane world “it” would be locked up- not pandered to.”

    I don’t speak for him and he doesn’t speak for me. Reading his peace it seems more like a well-justified expression of disgust and anger at two weirds inflicting their nonsense on an innocent child than an actual plan. But don’t let me interrupt your propaganda.

    ^^“You ? Cos you are the only one talking about it.”^^

    “Lie.”

    You are the expert in the use of lies NiV. Stats prove it

  30. “I will match you punch for punch SJW.”

    Cool! Although you’re an idiot if you think SJWs are libertarians.

    “But I’m not going to keep giving you the chance to re-cycle your tired mix of the same lie and delusion over and over. “

    Just what I was thinking.

    “So one more time on this one.”

    Only one? Oh, go onnnn… 🙂

    “Cos hunter-gatherers had lots of time for those–which is why we keep tripping over 100,000 year old remains of concert halls and the like.”

    Moses wasn’t around 100,000 years ago. Where did you learn your history?

    And while modern-day hunter gatherer societies don’t have concert halls, they do in fact have art, dance, ethnic cookery, and a rich oral storytelling tradition. I think there has been more to life than sex for a very long time.

    And the hunter-gatherer civilisations we’re most familiar with quite commonly had TG practices – See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#Terminology

    “Blah,blah — save it for the atheism debate. You try to mix up the first “civilisation” with the desperate and dangerous life of h/g’s –classically nasty, brutish and short. Only with a tiny amount of leisure did elites have a chance to foster the practice of assorted sex antics.”

    Nonsense. When Moses made those particular rules, he contrasted them with the practices in the societies around them – the ones he destroyed.

    The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord. […] Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’

    According to Moses, the practices were common in the civilisations around there until he turned up and killed them all.

    So you fail on your theology, religious history, and anthropology. Good going!

    “Why do you keep throwing in this non-sequetor bullshit? Have I suggested–ever–that homos be arrested etc? Or trannies–apart from those who try to trick/force their way into the ladies or hang around kids.”

    I love the way you sneak in those exceptions as if they weren’t an admission of doing exactly what you were claiming not to!

    But anyway – all I said in the bit you’re responding to was “compulsory or forbidden”, I didn’t say anything about arresting them. You made that bit up. Non sequitur, much?

    “Against homo-so-called phobia? Really?”

    No. They were against homosexuality. http://www.marxmail.org/schweitzer.pdf

    It’s not really very surprising or significant – most people were back then. But taking the word literally, homophobia is the more “Marxist” position.

    “They have weaponised it thro’ brain-washed chumps like you–who say the are unaffected by programming while doing the left’s dirty work.”

    “Pink triangles” was a reference to the “left’s dirty work”. I’m not the one doing it.

    “I haven’t apart from telling you and your SJW mates that you aren’t invading the ladies or unleashing a propaganda storm on 6 year olds.”

    Brilliant! “I’m not telling you what to do, apart from where I’m telling you what to do”!

    “And that is telling you what you aren’t going to do.”

    Oh, that makes it totally different, does it?

    “Disliking others habits makes me hateful only to SJWs like you who are already full of hate.”

    Overwhelmingly, the public reports themselves as not prejudiced against transgender people. Over 8 in 10 (82%) describe themselves as “not prejudiced at all”, while 15% say they are “a little prejudiced”, and just 2% say they are “very prejudiced”

    Here we find that only 53% condemn transphobia completely, saying that prejudice against people who are transgender is “always wrong”, however a further 19% say that prejudice against transgender people is “mostly wrong”, meaning a total of 72% have a largely negative view of prejudice against transgender people. A minority (15%) say that transphobia is “sometimes wrong”, while very few (4%) say it is “rarely” or “never” wrong.”

    Unless you’re classifying 72% of the population as SJWs, not true.

    “Your tripe about mass support is just tripe. And never mind unsupported assertions. Your bullshit “studies” are from social “science” a leftist-filled profession now under fire for its lack of rigour.”

    Sure. But the rigorous response to it is to re-examine the papers in detail and point out where there are errors, or better evidence. Blanket dismissal purely because of the source is the ad hominem fallacy, and even *less* rigorous than the social sciences!

    Like I said, it’s one of the classic symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia to dismiss any and all evidence against one’s delusions as the result of a conspiracy/cover-up.

    Surveys simply count up what people say.

    “By the lazy and hard of thought.”

    The compilers of the Oxford English Dictionary are “lazy and hard of thought”?! Outstanding!

    “So if you approve that would make things ok.”

    No, we’re discussing rationality here, not good.

    “Lots of people are morons. Truth is not decided by numbers.”

    So what *is* it decided by? You?

    And 72% of the population are “morons”! You’re making lots of friends here!

    “I get what you are trying to say”

    Good enough.

    “Just for the record –what has all this talk of sodomy got to do with trannies again?”

    What does all this have to do with the election in Alabama?

    It was the same set of religious prescriptions that led to persecution of both. The biological causes are similar, the moral arguments for and against are similar, and the liberalisation is being done under the same legal framework.

    “Err…no. It is based on an innate visceral flesh-crawl such as most people would get if their minds threw up the ugly image of dining on a shit sandwich.”

    That’s an acquired reaction. People develop disgust for things that their parents and peers showed disgust for during their childhood – it’s an actual case of ‘imprinting’. That’s why foods that one nation considers a delicacy (snails, insects, etc.) are regarded as disgusting by others.

    The prohibition has a religious origin and justification, which is maintained partly by acquired disgust reactions. Nowadays, younger people are developing similar disgust reactions to prejudice.

    “And how is that exactly in a society that all but panders to sodomy despite the fact far more people agree with me than you–regardless of your bogus social science twaddle.”

    Pretty obviously, it “panders to sodomy” because more people agree with me than you. Or do you have any evidence for your assertion?

    “Human cruelty is what it is and most people suffer from some of it in life.”

    Yes. I agree. I just think we should fight it, not tolerate or encourage it.

    “If a fool such as you NiV decides to identify as Batman and went around everywhere in the outfit you should expect to be the butt of humour and a target for free-floating aggression.”

    Should I? How is that justified by dressing up as batman?

    This is like saying “Lots of nasty people are socialists. So if you go round criticising socialism you should expect to be beaten up, fired from your job, sued into bankruptcy, etc.” Just because the world is filled with bastards like you doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to change it.

    “Really–good job you know my mental processes better than I do.”

    And you know a TGs mental processes better than they do?

    Annoying, isn’t it, when other people diagnose your mental illness based on no knowledge of your internal experience of your mental processes? Who is better able to decide if you’re delusional? Me or you?

    “So an obnoxious individual –for that is what Brucie is regardless of his sex delusions–agrees with a tiny fraction of my beliefs. So what?”

    So it demonstrates that you’re not opposing them because they’re socialists.

    “Why should I give regard to a so-called Tea Partist who is actually giving vastly more aid and comfort to marxian subjectivism by his publicly proclaimed nonsense.”

    What he was trying to demonstrate to other TGs was that you don’t have to support socialism to survive as a TG, in an attempt to wean them off identifying “right-wing” with “hate-filled bigot”.

    You’re saying that a TG can never be a right-winger. OK. They’ll stick with the left, then. And any public sympathy for them will see socialism as on the side of good, and the right as on the side of evil.

    It’s not. Or at least there’s no logical reason it should be. But when you reject all TGs irrespective of their politics, so they turn to the left, and then you try to justify your rejection on the basis that they’ve turned to the left… well, it just looks ridiculous.

    You hate TGs because you hate TGs. It’s got nothing to do with socialism.

    “And anyone not accepting your bullshit is an authoritarian how? If I refuse to believe you are Batman–regardless of how heavily you are into playing dress-up–that makes me the KGB?”

    You forgot to mention “…and a target for free-floating aggression”.

    “The very mirror-image of my point. All of the above is just as true of you and your tripe.”

    Excellent! So you agree you’re talking tripe!

    “My evil consists of what? Not agreeing with you–despite your absolute lack of evidence.”

    You mean “…despite me not accepting any evidence”.

    “Oh yes they fucking are. But you are not. You are evil. You knowingly and willingly support subjectivist evil.”

    Your arbitrary assertion that someone has a particular mental gender that disagrees with what the person themselves says, what their genetics says, what their brain scans say, is what is “subjectivist”. Or more precisely “made up”.

    “In true SJW style you project your own nonsense on to me.. You are a boo-hooing Mr Feelz but claim it is I.”

    Er. Yes. It is you. I’ve got data. You’ve presented none. Your assertion that most people think like you is based purely on your “feelz”.

    Unless you want to present your own evidence now?

    “No I clearly said that apart from women’s bogs and getting anywhere near kids adult trans can do what the Hell they like.”

    Yes, exactly. Apart from the things you’re banning, you’re not banning anything. Such blatant idiocy and self-contradiction deserves a prize!

    “Sez you– you arrogant twat.”

    They meet the clinical definition.

    i>”Contrary evidence of what exactly? Evidence that people who don’t want anything to do with certain sex antics either really do or really should? Cos you and leftoid scum say so?”

    No. I was talking about the medical evidence you rejected, and the survey evidence you rejected.

    And the only reason it’s the “leftoid scum” that say so is that “rightoid scum” chooses not to.

    It’s got nothing to do with left or right. Marx himself was homophobic. Many of the worst atrocities against gays were perpetrated by the left. But the left see an opportunity now to make the right look bad, and the right are falling for it.

    There’s nothing anti-right about transgender tolerance. It’s your choice to make it so.

    “You don’t even have any of that chum. Surveys telling you that you should stick a cucumber up your arse because 51 % of people surveyed enjoyed it does not –and indeed should not–alter the opinions of the cucumber averse.”

    And vice versa. If 15% of people are cucumber-averse, that does not and should not change the minds of those who favour cucumbers.

    But you’re dodging the point. You’re making claims about what ‘most people think’ that are contradicted by the evidence, so you just reject that evidence. Most people think transphobia is ‘always wrong’. Transphobia is a minority position. That doesn’t mean you can be made to renounce it. But you can’t justify your transphobia on the basis of being a ‘moral majority’ when you’re not.

    “Nor do you have any scientistic evidence. You have the results of experiments–repeated and replicated how often?–which you SAY show that you are right. There is no indication that your ideas of what means what are Gospel truth.”

    Sample sizes are in the thousands.

    And as I keep on pointing out – whatever the shortcoming of the evidence I present, so far you’re presented none at all. You think no evidence is better, somehow? That making shit up doesn’t have any of the replication problems of the studies you don’t like?

    No, you simply reject it because you don’t like it/agree with it, and justify it by setting higher standards of evidence than you apply to your own position. You’re entirely immune to contrary evidence. Your position is unfalsifiable.

    “Legions of non-trans might have exactly the same for all you and the whitecoated wankers know.”

    They did look, you know.

    “And neither can you.”

    I can’t present any evidence that you won’t reject, because you’ll reject anything that doesn’t fit your delusionary system.

    “If I didn’t take the danger of you infecting others with your delusions seriously I wouldn’t be wasting my time writing this.”

    Obsessive behaviour, too…

    “Cos it is.”

    Quite so. There’s the source of the problem.

    “Then don’t be standing silent while BluLab and the Girl Guides and the rest of the SJW-controlled hand out tranny lessons for 6 year olds then.”

    Don’t confuse making decisions with receiving the information needed to enable you to decide.

    “And if parents abuse their kids –beat them etc– should nothing be done?”

    If the parents beat their son because they caught him in a dress, should nothing be done?

    “SJW fashion-stooges. “

    Not unless 72% of people are SJWs.

    “The vast,vast majority of kids are quite happy with what sex they are and wouldn’t even trouble themselves about it were it not for your gang NiV.”

    I quite agree, and good luck to them. They don’t need to trouble themselves about it. They get told about TGs, say “That’s not me.” End of story. Nobody should be made to be anything they’re not.

    But the same principle applies to the kids not in the majority.

    “None of the above piffle has anything to do with demented agitators like you trying to persuade kids to your poison viewpoint.”

    What, that they shouldn’t persecute and make miserable anyone who differs from them? That for those affected, being TG isn’t “wrong”? That they’re not allowed to bully people? That’s what you consider “poison”?

    “Never suggested that she should be prevented from destroying her kid. Just that she is a cunt for so doing.”

    You asked: “Is the loopy fuckwit alleged singer “Pink” entitled to decide her kid is going to be gender-free?” A lack of entitlement suggests it should be prevented. You didn’t call her a ‘cunt’.

  31. “Already done so above.”

    No you haven’t.

    “Yeah–I’m sure ALL of us have bullied several trans to death this year alone. You delusional fuckwit.”

    Strawman.

    “The only demand being that they keep out of ladies toilets.”

    Ah! You agree!

    “I feel sorry for such unfortunates. As do I’m sure do most of their families. But the important fact is this: TRUTH IS TRUTH. I won’t deny truth for feelz.”

    Yes you will. Yes you have. It’s just YOUR feelz.

    “Screw compassion.”

    And that’s why people think of right-wingers as callous scum.

    “There is NO compassion in destroying the world by accepting the evil of subjectivism.”

    You only consider it subjective because you reject all objective evidence. But you have nothing but subjective claims, yourself. You think truth is truth? Prove it! Show your evidence!

    “Two plus two still and always shall equal four. Not five because scum say it does.”

    And no more when it’s *you* saying it’s five, and all the mathematicians who say otherwise must be leftoid scum, because they disagree with your feelz. You don’t need no steenkin’ evidence!

    “What absolute bullshit. I won’t accept lies as truth. You are not something you are not because you say you are.”

    No. You get to be TG because something goes awry with brain development in the womb. You are not cis-gender simply because some other idiot with a fixation on making reality conform to their deluded beliefs *says* you are.

    You’re *wrong*. Reality is not as you supposed. Your refusal to acknowledge reality is your business, but you don’t get to tell other people what they can and cannot do on the basis of it.

    “And yet I have you pegged for the dross you are.”

    You got that one wrong, too.

    “The Police. Our dear PC controlled, Common Purpose owned Plod are dishing it out to trannies left, right and centre are they?”

    Ah! Conspiracy theory!

    “Got some names, cases etc–above one or two in number preferably Mr Evidence.”

    Yes.

    “Yes they do.”

    No they don’t.

    “That is true of anybody. Spend lots of time in boozy shithole dives and your chances of being assaulted rise markedly.”

    Ummm. Who said anything about “boozy shithole dives”?

    “They are the gender their body says they are.”

    If you count the brain as part of the body, yes. Since ‘gender’ is the sex of the brain, they’re the gender the brain says it is.

    “Had this debate so many times–so many times I have said that not Trans as such but the perverts they hold the door open for are the issue.”

    That’s what I said: the Group A Group B trick.

    And as we’ve previously noted, the police forces of every US state where it was introduced reported NO increase in bathroom assaults or crimes, and it’s been law in the UK for about seven years, with no increase in incidents. The flood of perverts is made-up bullshit. An excuse for persecution.

    “Bullfucking shit. The pandering of garbage like you likely does more harm by stirring a pot of impossible delusion and false destructive hope.”

    OK, show me your evidence! TGs using the ladies has been legal in about 19 US States and more than 200 municipalities. If youre correct, the evidence should be easy enough to find. Got any?

    “Said principle would keep trans out of the ladies and SJW scum away from 6 year olds.”

    Nope. Mill himself gave the example of apothecaries selling poisons, which made it easier to murder people. He explicitly denied that this justified the banning of poisons, because there were legitimate uses and people should not be deprived of liberty for crimes they haven’t committed, and have no intention of committing.

    You don’t get to ban TGs from the ladies, only perverts. You don’t get to ban the free speech of SJWs, unless you want to justify them banning yours.

    “Some body has to be nearer to the truth if not dead on. It isn’t you.”

    And you think you are because why? You’ve got no evidence. You’re constantly wrong about stuff. And most people disagree with you. What makes you so sure it doesn’t apply to you?

    “You talking about yourself?”

    I’m talking about everyone. Anyone can be wrong – the only way to find out is to argue it out with someone who disagrees and see if they have any stronger evidence.

    “I’m sick of your bullshit but I have opposed your brainless evil not tried to silence you.”

    Same here.

    But I’m talking about the reasons for promoting/protecting free speech, not you.

    “How do mind and body differ as to identity please–as a matter of law not your malarkey. Unless your malark has been made law in which case it needs to be unmade double quick.”

    Legal principles are not themselves laws, they’re the reasons the laws are made as they are. Like the Harm Principle.

    The principle was established when they changed the definition of death, following the invention of life support machinery. Up until then, it had been defined as cardio-pulmonary failure, but with life support people could be kept breathing indefinitely. You should be able to find a discussion in any textbook on bioethics.

    “Your standard lies.”

    What’s your evidence that they’re lies?

    Especially after all the links I’ve given to demonstrate them?

    “You are 87% tripe NiV.”

    Classy! Proof? Evidence?

    “Physical reality gives you and him the lie NiV. Squirm all you like.”

    More unsupported assertion. Give us some evidence.

    “Wait up-I’ll get my violin.”

    I must remember that one for the next time you seek my sympathy for anyone.

    “Yes they are.”

    No they’re not.

    “That paragraph literally makes no sense.”

    Yes it does.

    “Of course not–he doesn’t agree with you and the SJWs.”

    He doesn’t even know what their position is – he got it completely back-to-front. He was complaining about them saying gender was fluid and a matter of choice, when the trans-activists say exactly the opposite!

    He’s got the trans-activists mixed up with the feminists. It was the feminists that argued that gender is socially constructed and a matter of choice. Modern medical science says exactly the opposite. Gender and sexual orientation are biologically fixed. He got it completely wrong.

    “Again you distort to deceive. Either you can’t comprehend what you read or you know well that the “profession” I spoke of was the social “sciences” not medicine in general.”

    Yes, but it’s medicine in general that says gender and sexual orientation are biologically fixed, that the best available treatment is aiding transition, and so on.

    “I’m claiming it is likely none in the West –but lets have your count and examples.”

    http://www.drdoughaldeman.com/doc/ScientificExamination.pdf

    htt ps:/ /www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/08/church-of-england-demands-ban-on-conversion-therapy

    “Sez you.”

    Sez him. ““In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder,” said McHugh.”

    The official psychiatric terms are dysphoria (distress at the shape of the body) and dysmorphia (delusion about the shape of the body). Anorexia is a dysmorphia. TGs are under no illusions about the shape of their body.

    But the dysphoria/dysmorphia distinction and the “official psychiatric term” for a condition is map, not territory.

    “He doesn’t have to refute “proof” that doesn’t exist.”

    Now *you’re* denying that it exists.

    ““Was associated with”–doesn’t say how exactly does it?”

    Yes.it does. It means correlated with. The two characteristics tended to occur together or not occur together. Incidence of one is associated with incidence of the other.

    “And uses more than enough leftist buzz words to make it very clear which side these social science con-men are on.”

    There aren’t any leftist buzzwords. Just scientific terminology and everyday standard English.

    “Come back with some real proof NiV. Stat-crap from SS liars doesn’t cut it.”

    It does anywhere outside your delusions.

    “And you know this how? More stats from the CM/SS axis? Do the world a favour and just stop.”

    Is that even possible? If you dismiss all statistics collected about outcomes because that would constitute social sciences, how else would you find out whatthe statistics on outcomes were? It’s deranged.

    “I don’t speak for him and he doesn’t speak for me.”

    I didn’t say you did. You said nobody else was talking about jailing TGs, and I demonstrated that you were a liar because moqifen was. As was easily determinable, simply by reading the comment I was replying to.

    Apparently you do speak for him – you were saying he didn’t say what he said.

    “Reading his peace it seems more like a well-justified expression of disgust and anger at two weirds inflicting their nonsense on an innocent child than an actual plan.”

    Ah. You can read his mind now, can you?

    “You are the expert in the use of lies NiV. Stats prove it”

    I thought you didn’t like stats?

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.