Oh Aye?

The European Union is considering a database of Bitcoin owners in Europe under laws designed to fight money laundering and terrorism.

As part of a crackdown on virtual currencies, MEPs will consider setting up a central hub of people who use the online exchanges where Bitcoin is bought and sold.

That the exchanges should know their customer seems fine. That the state? Hmm.

23 comments on “Oh Aye?

  1. They really are doing their very best to promote Bitcoin as an alternative currency, aren’t they? And haven’t the slightest clue how Bitcoin, or for that matter the internet, works.

  2. Can’t let ordinary people have even a little bit of freedom that is unsurveilled by the State can we? Big Brother is entitled to watch all that we do.

    Of course better than watching bitcoin as a solution to terrorism is not letting the goat-shaggers into the country in the first place. We can have a White more-or-less-Protestant Britain with lots of liberties. Or we can have a cafe au lait society with none whatsoever.

  3. They do for every other currency, pretty much. Bank deposits and cash over €10,000.

    Ecks will be here soon to froth about my love of foreign tyrranical femmi-marxist islamic cuck scum.

  4. OK then. Try setting up a database showing all those holding cash. And then come back and explain why cryptocurrencies are the enemy.

  5. Meanwhile Japanese academics have conducted research (thank God for academics, who else could conduct RESEARCH?) and discovered Bitcoin has “no intrinsic value” (gee whiz, whodda thought? )

    As opposed to, say, gold, which is just sooooo shiny!

  6. @Rusty,

    Most governments seem quite keen on eliminating cash, with Europe abolishing the Bin Laden, the BoE abolishing the £50. Places in China where you can’t pay with cash any more, so unless you have a local mobile phone app it’s credit card for £1 transactions.

    The €10,000 is cash/securities limit for taking over an internal European border. You can do it but are theoretically supposed to declare it. Even under that level they may show interest in where it came from. Every country that I know about has a similar limit.

    Personal anecdote – after I moved a few £10,000 out of the UK, via the banking system, I got stopped and quizzed about my finances every time I entered (and sometimes when I left, which is most unusual as they do no systematic exit checks) the UK, for about 3 years. So yes, they do watch this stuff.

  7. Bloke in Germany – “They do for every other currency, pretty much. Bank deposits and cash over €10,000. ”

    Which law makes me report whether I have £10,000 under the floor boards or not? We have to report bank *transactions*. But that is something else.

  8. Depends if you are merely reporting circumstances or endorsing them Biggie.

    I suspect the latter. Because that’s the kind of guy you are. Labels ARE a mental shorthand but they fit very nicely in lots of cases.

    You have sorta pronounced your own sentence there Biggs. I had hoped you might be even slightly better than that but life is full of little disappointments

  9. Most governments seem quite keen on eliminating cash, with Europe abolishing the Bin Laden, the BoE abolishing the £50. Places in China where you can’t pay with cash any more, so unless you have a local mobile phone app it’s credit card for £1 transactions.”

    And not just for anti terrorism reasons. In a truly cashless society interest rates could go really negative as opposed to the floor of around 0% now.

  10. You only need to declare cash over 10K euros when you are taking it into or out of the EEA, not “internal European borders”.

    So UK to Germany until April 2019, no declaration needed. UK to Canada, yes.

    https://www.gov.uk/bringing-cash-into-uk

    Italy requires declaration of cash of over 10K euros regardless of whether it’s going to an EU or non-EU country, therefore UK to Italy does not require a UK declaration but does require an Italian declaration.

    How is the BOE abolishing the £50?

    Personal anecdote – I frequently move £10K in and out of the UK and have never been questioned, except occasionally by the bank from which I am sending the money.

  11. I agree that certain countries are becoming more and more hostile to cash, but the nonsense about scrapping the £50 is just that.

    The current £50 was introduced in 2011. The current £20 was introduced in 2006 and will be withdrawn after 14 years, the current paper £10 was introduced in 2000 and will be withdrawn after 18 years, and the paper £5 was introduced in 2002 and was withdrawn after 15 years. Previous series of notes were circulating for similar periods of time too.

    So the current £50 should not be due for withdrawal until at least 2025 or so. Furthermore, there is no reason for the next version to be plastic. Singapore, Malaysia and Mexico have their lower denomination notes in polymer and the higher ones in paper.

    If any banknote needs to be withdrawn it is the Singapore $10,000 – although many years ago I sold a house there and when I wanted to move the money to another bank, they gave me ten of those and lent me a security guard with a gun to walk 5 minutes to the other bank…!

  12. Just how is the EU going to force Bitcoin exchanges in Japan and the USA to disclose the names of European customers?

  13. @john77: Send in a gunboat!

    When I sold my dad’s classic Bentley, it went to a dealer from Amsterdam who flew over with a wodge of €500 notes. >>€10,000 in value, but this was in 2002.

  14. john 77 “Just how is the EU going to force Bitcoin exchanges in Japan and the USA to disclose the names of European customers?”
    They won’t because nobody knows who the customers are, or from where. The transactions are traceable, transparent, but you can only know how fast it’s going and you can’t collapse the wave.
    Can you imagine the biggest users, arms and drugs and trafficking and paedophile dealers, anything deeply unsavoury, that are coining it in now? All they need to do is find a buyer amongst the frenzy and they’ve got the cash to make their enterprises more significant and facilitated and then probably buy back when the bubble bursts.
    It’s the best thing since the Chinese laundries.

    Some MEPs (as reported by the Teletubby) cannot do anything or have any impact on anything without rounding ’em up, putting every human in a field and bombing the bastards. [is that Kenny Everett]. Mr Ecks is a bit like Kenny Everett.

  15. ” Mr Ecks is a bit like Kenny Everett.”

    Well you have more in common with old dead Kenny John5.1 as your pointless comment expanded like Rod Stewarts arse in Everett’s famous sketch. In your case the explosion would blow what passes for your brains all over the room.

    Glad to hear you don’t like Bitcoin because creeps who whinge about dodgy dealing actually=nasty little state-sucking stooges. The tiny fringe of crimmos being used to justify tyranny is old hat even for govt sucking turds.

    As for putting you in a field well you were probably born in one anyway and you certainly aren’t worth wasting the cost of either a bomb or a gallon of jetfuel on.

  16. It used to be my argument that it was impossible to abolish cash, as how would I pay my window cleaner? But my window cleaner now no longer takes cash or cheques, and leaves a note with his BACS receiving account details.

    Even kiddies are getting their pocket money on debit cards nowadays. The last remaining barrier is that cash is the only way that is possible to give money to beggers and Big Issue sellers.

  17. Mr Ecks.
    That’s quite some response! Through that bizarre invective you wrote, “Glad to hear you don’t like Bitcoin because creeps who whinge about dodgy dealing actually=nasty little state-sucking stooges. The tiny fringe of crimmos being used to justify tyranny is old hat even for govt sucking turds”

    Your last sentence is salient but so, so juvenile. Most blogs would be picking you to pieces. You must be admired by Tim Worstall and everyone else who comments here that you don’t get the piss taken out of you. It may be that I’m missing an in-joke.

    What I was saying is that bitcoin, and others, is the most efficient way of funding terrorism and criminality. What you’re implying is that you prefer terrorists and criminals over the rule of law. It’s a bold statement.

  18. “Your last sentence is salient but so, so juvenile. Most blogs would be picking you to pieces. You must be admired by Tim Worstall and everyone else who comments here that you don’t get the piss taken out of you. It may be that I’m missing an in-joke.”

    Oh –you’re a clever and sophisticated fellow–and I didn’t realise. And now I stand in deadly danger that all the other clever and sophisticated fellows out there will laugh at my hayseed naivete. Boo Fucking Hoo. If you want an in-joke look in the mirror.

    Or get yourself some original material. The “We’re such cleverer fellows than you morons” has already been done to death by ReMainiac scum.

    ” What you’re implying is that you prefer terrorists and criminals over the rule of law. It’s a bold statement.”

    Better than being a crawling, weaselling cunt. And yes crims and terror-trash are still better alternatives to the arrogant, overweening and snooping scum of the state. When crims and terrorists have managed to murder 150 million come back and tell us all again how much better the thieving, murdering state is.

  19. Mr Ecks
    Calm down, dear.
    I’m just faintly surprised that no one calls you out. You are incoherent. I have not stated my opinion on leaving the EU, nor have I stated any political leaning.
    It’s clear, however, that you support terrorism, at any cost.

  20. Incoherent ?

    Where precisely is that to be found chum?

    Stating it to be the case in the manner of a bod convinced of his own superior elan is not the same as actual proof by means of logical statement.

    I never said that you were a ReMainiac . I said that it was a tried and true tactic of such. That you wrongly infer meaning and then complain about your own lack of comprehension rather suggest which of us is lacking in good mental order.

    As for terrorism, however awful it can do only a fraction of the harm done by the overweening tyranny of the state. But please ,Mr Clever by all means let us enable the evil of the state in order to try–unsuccessfully–to get rid of the far lesser problem of terrorism. At the same time that Western political and bureaucratic scum are daily importing the two-legged sinews of terror while claiming Bitcoin is a dangerous problem.

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