I quite agree with David Lammy

Those responsible for the horror of the Grenfell Tower fire must face trial
David Lammy

Well, yes.

For most people it means putting those responsible for the horror in the dock in the Old Bailey, on trial for gross negligence manslaughter. Anything short of that will be a whitewash.

The thing is though David, who is it that is going to be in the dock?

43 comments on “I quite agree with David Lammy

  1. The people who let a flood of Third World peasants inclined to do things like illegal sublet council housing to other Third World peasants with such vibrant standards of personal and family hygiene?

    The Third World peasants themselves?

    Of two things I can be sure: 1. It was not my fault and 2. Yet I will end up paying for it.

  2. Maybe we should welcome such a trial. It would be an interesting test of the resilience of the British justice system to political pressure. I think we can all guess who, if any, should be found guilty. But I imagine a fair trial would be the last thing likely.

  3. Well they are trying to load any inquiry in favour of “wicked white Tories” etc.

    Perhaps a court case might be harder to bend to political will. Although–as a result of capers like Yewtree– I see little evidence the courts are immune from political crap.

  4. bloke in spain – “Maybe we should welcome such a trial. It would be an interesting test of the resilience of the British justice system to political pressure.”

    Three men are still in prison for the murder of Stephen Lawrence despite the fact that there is no credible evidence against them. I see no evidence that the British justice system is capable of resisting political pressure. We might well be better off with a coin toss.

  5. “The media has traditionally done little to represent working-class people, and I have grown tired of correcting journalists who called those who lived in Grenfell “poor”.”

    They are fleecing the taxpayer blind, so no, they are NOT ‘poor’ in any sense of the word!

    “It is often British NGOs that are first responders on the ground in war-torn nations or after natural disasters; yet we failed to look after our own in the nation’s richest borough.”

    Tell that to the firemen who battled the blaze, you charlatan.

  6. Well, if it was a European company that made the fridge, we could start with them, like the Septics did to VW et al. Then we could go for Dent-Coad …

  7. “Three men are still in prison for the murder of Stephen Lawrence despite the fact that there is no credible evidence against them.”

    You denying they’re working class white, SMfS? What other evidence could be needed?

  8. I still think there is something fishy about this.

    No one knew how many people lived there but it was assumed to be packed to the gills.

    During the live reports we heard how quickly the blaze started and spread, how there were no warnings, no extinguishers or sprinklers. Most people were allegedly asleep.

    I was convinced there were going to be hundreds dead. That about 85% escaped is incredible.

  9. “Then something changed. Within a couple of days the dog whistle sounded in social media, in below-the-line comment sections and in parts of the broadcast and print media. Grenfell Tower residents were illegal immigrants, unwelcome, the underclass. An atrocity should not serve as a national dividing line, but it did; and traumatised survivors had to watch as the nation retreated into tribal echo chambers.

    The media has traditionally done little to represent working-class people”

    Nice piece of bait and switch there.

    And his real problem is that quite a lot of the working class are represented by The Sun, which is hated by the sneering elite

  10. Well lets see.
    Who was it passed requirements forcing the place to be insulated? That would be every MP and Lord who voted for the Climate Change Act.
    Who decided that exterior cladding didn’t have to be fireproof? That would be the relevant perps in the Commisssion.
    Who managed the thing? That would be the lovely Dent-Coad plus a bunch of tenants.
    Yep, lock em all up.

  11. It is often British NGOs that are first responders on the ground in war-torn nations or after natural disasters; yet we failed to look after our own in the nation’s richest borough.”

    ‘Our own’

  12. Within a couple of days the dog whistle sounded in social media, in below-the-line comment sections …

    The readers had the temerity to stand up to the journalists and not accept their uncritical, unthinking analysis of the situation.

  13. More like the readers had the temerity to stand up to the journalists and not accept the narrative that was being pushed as hard as possible, as well as pointing out actual realities of the situation.

  14. No comments allowed, I see. But my answer is, yes, the responsible parties must be put in the dock, which is the management company as a corporate body, and those who were the board members as individuals. That is certainly what would have happened back when I was a board member of a Housing Association.

    Now…. who would that be….?

  15. jgh

    If that actually happens and custodials + fines for individuals follows I will boil up my collection of headwear and eat it.

    The delay in getting on with it is enabling the perps to scatter and diluting the public anger while a a carnival of lefties blame the Tories and ‘fatcha and Shirley Porter and wheel in their human rights quango crews.

    I hope dim bulb David Lammy gets what he’s asking for.

  16. It’s important not to prejudge this enquiry but if they don’t dig up the corpse of Mrs Thatcher and declare her guilty and cut her head off and mount it on a spike then clearly the enquiry was a sham and a whitewash.

  17. Lammy has voted for numerous climate change bills, so the little snot should turn himself in at the nearest cop shop.

  18. I own shares of the company that manufactures the cladding and sold it to the builders simply because they offered to buy it, though the company knew what it was going to be used for and also offered for sale a more fireproof product. (It cost more.) Shares skidded several months ago as analysts decided the company would be “in the dock” too, then recovered when they discovered that the result of such a trial under UK law would be the payment of relative pocket change.

    The biggest risk to anyone of herding culprits toward a star chamber is to further the legal notion that the shopkeeper cannot sell you anything without first pestering you to instead buy something that might be better for you. (This might be the reason behind the imminent McVegan, apart from a conclusion that anyone actually wants to eat one.)

  19. Crown.

    Immunity.

    Not that it ever applied to Kensington and Chelsea Council, it has been defunct for some time now.

    The remaining minute element is the personal immunity of HM (but not other members of the Royal Family) from criminal prosecution (possibly except by HoC – is Charles I and the ‘Royal Court of Justice’ a precedent?) and from being called in evidence. It is, after all, HM vs the accused.

  20. that the result of such a trial under UK law would be the payment of relative pocket change.

    But dwarfed by the lawyers’ fees, of course. The process is the punishment for offending the bien pensant.

  21. If David “Mastermind” Lammy has chimed in on a matter you know whatever has come out of his mouth is going to be both stupid and odious. He is in the top five most repellent of the current crop of MPs, which considering the competition is quite a feat.

  22. Well, one of those in the dock must be Ms Emma Dent Coad, who was, at the time a decision was made, a Director of the company that is primarily responsible. Criminal Negligence, amounting to corporate manslaughter, cases are a personal responsibility for each Director.
    So SE may get his wish unless someone smuggles a mobile ‘phone into her prison.

  23. US regulations would have likely prevented this fire. While the US overregulates, the one for this case is NFPA 285 which seems to work & requires controlled fire testing of the building components & substitutes, with some exceptions, are not allowed. The required testing includes the exact construction detail & materials from basic structure, interior material such as drywall, exterior sheathing, weather barrier, all insulations such as between studs and exterior continuous insulation & the exterior cladding. Testing has shown that sometimes substitute materials that one would think would work does not & creates a fire hazard, thus approval requires, for the most part, EXACT material & EXACT manufacturer. There are engineering assessments that can allow extensions to similar, but not tested, constructions; however, they are not always accepted and sometimes contracts require ONLY tested assemblies.

    Without research so I could be wrong, it is likely that the Celotex insulation with this exterior rain screen would have passed the NFPA 285 tests for some constructions, but obviously not this one.

    As to who’s on the doc. In the US, especially since we do not have “loser pays” all the plaintiffs generally sue the Architect, Engineer & Construction Company & mostly let them fight amongst themselves laying blame on each other. The plaintiffs do this even when there is very strong evidence or reasons 1 or 2 of the 3 had no blame. It costs the plaintiffs little to have them all in.

  24. My Dad worked with some of the crews who did the clean up work on Grenfell. What they told him was that even though the insulation caused the fire to spread quickly, if the correct fire doors had been installed firefighters would still have had time to rescue most of the victims. Apparently, some of the fire doors had been removed and those that were in place were the wrong size leaving a gap of about an inch at the bottom of the door rendering them useless. A correctly fitted fire door would have taken an hour to burn through which would have made a massive difference.

    Additionally, my Dad was told that a gas pipe had been installed in the emergency stairwell that ran top to bottom in the tower to allow each of the flats to have access to a gas supply. Presumably this was installed as part of the improvements also.

    I read reports at the time suggesting the fire doors were inadequate which is scandalous in itself but hadn’t heard mention of any gas pipes being installed anywhere so it is just he said, she said but if that is true someone should be strung up over the decision.

    And who the hell did they convince to actually do these bodge jobs?

  25. ICYMI

    KCTMO is trying to pass formal responsibility for what’s left of the building back to the nasty Tory council…..

    Guardian tweet (wouldn’t want to give ’em any ad clicks….)

    If they manage it … we’re even more fucked than I can express….

  26. Ltw

    nah… passing the buck is standard crisis management in the public sector – in this case it looks like they might be left holding it – the council don’t seem overly keen to help – which is understandable.

    I can’t understand why there hasn’t been an epidemic of ernestsaunderitis at KCTMO

  27. Bloke in Lower Hutt (WTF’s that?) raises a good point.

    “And who the hell did they convince to actually do these bodge jobs?”

    Some of the stuff he’s talking about would have been things the business I was involved in, UKside, might have done. Except we wouldn’t. They all breach regs & we don’t breach regs. Liability. The customer gets told its done in accordance with regulations or it doesn’t get done. Find someone else. If you can. But not us.

  28. bloke in spain – “Bloke in Lower Hutt (WTF’s that?)”

    Someone Jabba ate for breakfast this morning?

    The place where pizza bases come from?

    Someone who thinks the Mennonites are too posh?

  29. “…. traumatised survivors had to watch as the nation retreated into tribal echo chambers.”

    Says Lammy, a practitioner of tribal politics.

    ” What was left of Grenfell Tower was ransacked – despite its status as a crime scene and the supposed police protection.”

    Who ransacked it, Tories?

    Import third-world savages, get third world conditions.

  30. “US regulations would have likely prevented this fire.”

    This is interesting, It may not have if the chemistry teacher was right. When he saw the fire he thought of the reaction of Aluminium with steam, rather exciting. He thinks that the British climate soaked the cladding and insulation so that there was plenty of water waiting to be turned into steam!
    Although he may be wrong the tower in Arabia burned rather nicely and that could not have been wet!

    As for blame,
    1. The voters for not caring and voting for idiots… too many!
    2. Lammy and co. for being incompetent… never.
    3. The civil servants, Tenant management… Unions to powerful.
    4. Companies for selling the cladding etc. … legal minefield.

    Can’t see anybody going to gaol for this…

  31. Not much more to add to the excellent post by the BiCR – Lammy is a national disgrace and the fact that such a person can have been elected 5 times in a row shows how low the country has sunk into the morass. To discredit every falsehood in the article would take a lengthier post than time permits but suffice it to say this man, and anyone like him (and there are legions of Lammys)who have done so much to poison race relations across two or three decades ought to be in the dock for breach of the peace, incitement to riot and arguably treason.

  32. The voters of Tottenham would vote for a monkey if it had a red rosette on, the quality of the candidate is entirely immaterial.

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