Interesting problem

A woman who requested a female NHS nurse to perform her cervical smear test was “embarrassed and distressed” after a person with stubble and a deep voice summoned her for the intimate procedure.

When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.”

This weekend, the woman, who decided not to go ahead with the examination, said it was “weird where somebody says to you: ‘My gender is not male’ and you think: ‘Well, what does that even mean? You are clearly a man.’ ”

The nurse “had an obviously male appearance . . . close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble”, she said.

The woman received an official NHS apology after she made a complaint about her treatment.

The incident has been revealed as Justine Greening, the equalities minister and education secretary, is considering proposals that would allow people to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis.

That is, when is gender simply self-defined (when, say, deciding to wear a dress, adopt a name one wishes to be known by) and when do the expectations of others make a difference?

54 comments on “Interesting problem

  1. Rather proves a point I’ve made before. Gender (in the sense the crossdressing tendency use), like many other things, is assigned by the spectator not the performer. Whether you’re a brilliant pianist, skilled artist, competent plumber, reliable banker or a woman gets decided by those you interact with. You can’t just claim it as a right.

  2. The nurse “had an obviously male appearance . . . close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble”, she said.

    Hur hur hur, you should see some the birds that I’ve been out with down the years….

  3. The woman received an official NHS apology after she made a complaint about her treatment.

    I bet a man wouldn’t have received an apology.

  4. …the woman…said it was “weird where somebody says to you: ‘My gender is not male’ and you think: ‘Well, what does that even mean? You are clearly a man.’ ”

    I am mildly surprised she hasn’t been prosecuted for hate speech…

  5. It’s a tricky one for the hate speech brigade this, since women are also a vocal protected group, although not as exotic and fashionable as trannies..

  6. Male pattern baldness was a bit of a giveaway for the trans i worked with once, otherwise could have put her down for a woman just an extremely ugly one. Since a fortune awaits the company that solves that problem i expect trans to actually be more and more convincing.

  7. Theo +1
    If the NHS has officially apologised, does that mean they officially recognise that self definition is not enough?

  8. Talk about a society disappearing up its own arse. Do these idiots not realise that this entire “problem” is unknown in the history of mankind outside a gaggle of ultra-privileged white liberals in a handful of western countries?

  9. Male pattern baldness was a bit of a giveaway for the trans i worked with once, otherwise could have put her down for a woman just an extremely ugly one.

    A gay friend of mine once complained that a gay man he knew transformed into a woman. He said he’d gone from a beautiful boy to an ugly woman.

  10. “The woman received an official NHS apology after she made a complaint about her treatment”

    I find that very surprising – when I was waiting to see a consultant at my local NHS hospital recently, a notice made plain that anyone who objected to being seen or treated by a particular member of staff, based on their gender or ethnicity, would have their treatment stopped…

  11. Where is our favourite trannie apologist to explain this one? Presumably, the woman in question is one of the tiny percentage of people who don’t like the fluid sexual definitions people assign to themselves.

  12. NHS – health care that’s the envy of the world.

    If government provides your health care, government decides what you will get.

  13. When we resist changes like this, their progress slows sufficiently for normalisation to take place. If we want to reveal the idiocy of progressive ideas we should accelerate them.

    Because the poison is the dose.

  14. What if you say you don’t care about your medics gender but you would prefer one with a particular biological sex? The same with toilets, make them all gender neutral but still differentiate those toilets for biological males and those for biological females.

  15. If they respond that there is no such thing as biological sex then you need to ask yourself if you want these people to be performing your smear test.

  16. when is gender simply self-defined (when, say, deciding to wear a dress, adopt a name one wishes to be known by) and when do the expectations of others make a difference?

    And yet, if I decided to wear a white coat and a stethoscope and an air of weary superiority and identified as a doctor, I’d be arrested.

    Talk about a society disappearing up its own arse

    There was a fun story about the Royal Navy a few months ago when Dr. President Trump was trying to stop tranny madness in the US military.

    They dug up some poncy Rear Admiral, of which we have many more than we do ships, to huffily virtue-bitch about how anybody can serve on a British warship because Diversity: low-effort trannies, pregnant chavs, Satanists, the mentally retarded, homosexuals, autosexuals, hydrosexuals, John Travolta, possessed Italian marionettes who yearn to be a real boy, ISIS members, ghosts, cripples and people who identity as rhododendrons.

    We deserve to lose a major war.

  17. Have just finished a book about life on offshore platforms in the North Sea circa 1970s and 80s. It’s primarily humorous anecdotes. Two stood out: when the only ever woman appeared on the platform (pipeline engineer); and then the only gay (catering manager). ‘It was noticeable that whenever in the latter’s company, everyone spoke with a noticeably deeper voice.’ Amazing how far we’ve come in such a relatively short time.

  18. “I find that very surprising – when I was waiting to see a consultant at my local NHS hospital recently, a notice made plain that anyone who objected to being seen or treated by a particular member of staff, based on their gender or ethnicity, would have their treatment stopped…”

    No mention of religion?

    I bet they wouldn’t stop the treatment of a RoPer woman who’s husband objected to a male white doctor.

  19. I like the word ‘assigned’.

    Here it is: we get assigned a gender by God. Self identify all you want; you are what God makes you.

  20. No, Ironman. We get assigned a sex by God. Gender is all man made. But, yes, what you self identify as doesn’t change what God made you.

  21. They dug up some poncy Rear Admiral, of which we have many more than we do ships, to huffily virtue-bitch about how anybody can serve on a British warship because Diversity:

    Except cannibals. Because there is no cannibalism in the British navy.

  22. First off, the ‘more admirals than ships’ fallacy. Admirals are a helluva lot cheaper than ships, and having spares means that you can replace an admiral that underperforms without too much effort.
    Secondly, what does it matter what sex or gender a medical professional is? I’m far more interested in their competence (with a slight preference to have a woman, rather than a man, handle my genitals!)

  23. Further to I sneeze in threes (1:27 pm): No; me, I do not want a lab sample taken or any other medical work done by a person who defines himself by a game of pretend in which I have to take part. Won’t even buy a car from him.

  24. PS to Dave Ward–So “health care as a human right” via the NHS doesn’t extend to the “LGBT-phobic”? Are there any other exceptions?

  25. First off, the ‘more admirals than ships’ fallacy. Admirals are a helluva lot cheaper than ships, and having spares means that you can replace an admiral that underperforms without too much effort.

    Yeah, the spares are called “Captains”. Cut some promotion orders and you’ve got yourself a replacement Admiral.

    And the problem isn’t really the direct cost of keeping a bunch of Admirals, anyway. An Admiral’s paycheck isn’t that much more than a Captain’s paycheck. It’s more the way that having too many flag officers results in bureaucratic paralysis for the organization, since they are all looking to build little empires to rule over.

  26. Medicine is one of the few exceptions where sex discrimination is allowed, so I don’t see a problem. The patient successfully exercised her right to discriminate.

    Is the problem that she wanted to discriminate anonymously, not to look someone in the eye as she did it?

  27. Because there is no cannibalism in the British navy.

    And by none, I mean a certain amount!

    Admirals are a helluva lot cheaper than ships

    How many helicopters can they carry?

  28. I have always self-identified as a tall man, despite being only 5′ 7″ tall.

    My problem is, doctor, when I go to buy a new pair of trousers they bunch badly round my ankles.

  29. “Presumably, the woman in question is one of the tiny percentage of people who don’t like the fluid sexual definitions people assign to themselves.”

    I like your sarcasm, Mr Yan. She’s just the tip of the iceberg…

  30. what does it matter what sex or gender a medical professional is?

    It matters to many women…

    I’m far more interested in their competence (with a slight preference to have a woman, rather than a man, handle my genitals!)

    When having a digital rectal examination, ask for a female doctor. They have smaller fingers. Unless anal dilation is your thing, in which case ask for a male doctor.

  31. Because there is no cannibalism in the British navy.

    They have the problem relatively under control now and besides it’s the RAF that suffers the most casulaties in this area.

    ( M.Python)

  32. All I ask is my medical professional washes his or her or xer hand after using it to wipe his or her or xer arse.

  33. Theophrastus,

    What did such women do when there were no female medical professionals?

    About that rectal exam, it was allegedly always a good idea to see if the doctor was rebuttoning his flies after such. Now, you also have to check if ‘she’ is pulling down the hem of ‘her’ skirt!

  34. “What did such women do when there were no female medical professionals?”

    They had a chaperone or nurse present.

  35. If the NHS – supposedly an organisation which knows a bit about biology – is going to call men “women” it might also consider pulling people out of the job centres and calling them “oncologist” and “world-class surgeon”, etc The scope for cost savings would be very considerable I’d imagine.

  36. Re the rectal exam:
    If the doctor has one hand on your shoulder that’s ok. If the doctor has both hands on your shoulders then you have a problem…

  37. To what extent should we pander? What about body integrity identity disorder? Should we allow people to amputate limbs on the nhs?

  38. Just to add some facts.
    I am MtF transgender and have no facial hair – because at, in my 50-60s I had the cash in the bank to pay the £15,000 plus it took for the electrolysis to remove; most don’t, especially those thrown and rejected by their families.
    Final surgery only takes place after years of therapy and then a minimum of two years “real life”where you live and dress as, in my case, female. During which a large number of those doing so are assaulted, raped or murdered. There is. O safeguarding and those who reach the end are the survivors, many traumatised.
    But feel free to mock and sneer.

  39. That should be “no” not “.0”.
    And as to the original article, the admitted cause was a clerical error, it that of the nurse who was just doing their job. Perhaps you would prefer she was sacked to prevent it happening again – rather than improve the admin system?

  40. Firstly, I don’t care if you identify as male/female/a duck. Do what you want, as long as I’m not forced to pay for it. I don’t think it unreasonable to require you to adhere to social norms. The forcible way the social norms are trying to be changed is bound to upset people. Me included. You can’t push people and not expect them to push back. Social norms exist for a reason, and that is to help us all get along without reverting to the inner chimp and ripping each other apart. Upset the norm too much and violence and chaos will ensue.
    That might be what they want though.

    Just to add some facts.

    During which a large number of those doing so are assaulted, raped or murdered.

    Source?

    Assault I can believe, but rape and murder?
    If I found out a woman used to be a or still was man (ie with man bits) rape would be the last thing on my mind.
    As to the high rate of assault, maybe examining the behaviour of the assaulted might explain why. It isn’t hard to think of a situation where a man pretending to be a woman and demanding access to female areas is going to piss off somebody sufficiently for violence to ensue.

  41. “where a man pretending to be a woman … is going to piss off somebody.”

    Like another man out for an enjoyable evening, err, falling for it…. (not excusing any violence of course whatsoever)

  42. “Perhaps you would prefer she (sic) was sacked to prevent it happening again – rather than improve the admin system?”

    Absolutely! Reassign the tranny and fire the dumbass administrator who chose a tatooed tranny to do contact exams on strangers.

    Reassign the tranny . . . wait . . . what?

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