Mental health issues and trans people

No, no, really, I should not mock:

Colonialist?

We will have full, historical accountability for the abuses perpetuated against us in the name of ‘healthcare’. We will see reparations for these crimes, and the crimes committed against others in our names.

??

Aren’t they rather missing that health care, beyond bed rest, is really only 60 odd years old?

We will heal the damage of borders and states, government and authority, capitalism and imperialism.

Shouldn’t there be something about freedom for Tooting about now?

We recognise that the history of trans medicine is a history of colonial and fascist abuse.

to gatekeeping of surgeries and medicines.

Yes, they do mean that doctors only doing medical treatment they think a good idea – the doctors that is – is fascist abuse.

There will be no clinics, and no authorities. We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies. We will heal and grow together. We will accumulate knowledge and share it freely and accessibly. We demand nothing less than the total abolition of the clinic, of psychiatry, and of the medical-industrial complex. We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”.

Hmm.

We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret.

Good luck there, surgery’s not that good yet.

Gender’s not the only thing they’re confused about, is it?

124 comments on “Mental health issues and trans people

  1. Yup, we’re going down the road to embracing this –

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

    Body integrity identity disorder (BIID, also referred to as amputee identity disorder)[1] is a psychological disorder in which otherwise healthy individuals perceive one or more of their limbs or organs as alien to the rest of their body.[2][3][4][5][6] People with this condition may refer to themselves as “transabled”[7] BIID is related to xenomelia, “the dysphoric feeling that one or more limbs of one’s body do not belong to one’s self”.[8]

    BIID is typically accompanied by the desire to amputate one or more healthy limbs. It also includes the desire for other forms of disability, as in the case of a woman who intentionally blinded herself.[2]

  2. Cor, if they start operating on themselves or each other that’s going to be accelerated Darwin awards all round!

  3. It would take a heart of stone…
    More seriously, I really welcome this sort of manifesto-because it puts out in the open the agenda that sane people are currently having a hard time resisting.

  4. Good luck getting your sophisticated reversible neuro-surgery without that medical-industrial complex. Bite down on this bit of wood while I disinfect this blade with some cheap brandy….

  5. I’d have thought this liberal blog would support tearing down the British Medical Association’s union-imposed monopoly on the practice of medicine. Or have I misunderstood their demands?

  6. back to surgery in barber shops perhaps

    A short back and sides please and can you lance the boil on the neck and remove my gall bladder as well.

  7. Is there anyway we can just give these loonies their own country and let them get on with it?

  8. “surgery’s not that good yet”

    No, and isn’t likely to be when medical advances depend on “We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies. We will heal and grow together”

  9. There were the indian hospitals for First Nations in western Canada where having passed on European diseases to the local population they were then shipped off to ‘hospitals’ to avoid infecting new settlers etc.
    Certainly that qualifies under ‘colonialism’ not sure how they are linking that to trans stuff though

  10. We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies

    So… like a David Cronenberg film? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  11. “Is there anyway we can just give these loonies their own country and let them get on with it?”

    I was hoping Scotland would vote for independence and all the loonies and socialist arseholes would migrate North………a sort of Two States solution.

  12. For fucks sake, how many trans people are in this country?, cos they seem to make a lot of noise and get noticed.

    I probably see one every 5 years and then i’m not always sure, Great Yarmouth has a lot of funny looking women so its even more confusing.

    Last confirmed sighting was Norwich train station 5-10 years ago, lovely big floral dress with high heels and a Farrah Fawcett-Majors (Charlies Angels) wig, with too much blusher and bodged lipstick job.

  13. So they’ll be turning down chemo, radiotherapy and analgesics when they get cancer then?

    No, thought not. Aside from the few who are 200% barking and will finish their days clogging up an end-of-life respite care home place alongside those who believed Facebook memes about turmeric and marijuana…

  14. I think someone has read too much Foucault without any understanding of what he was saying…

    Or possibly read some Iain M. Banks culture novels and somehow thought the medical technology there already exists.

  15. NeilsR:

    Bite down on this bit of wood while I disinfect this blade with some cheap brandy

    We’ll try to avoid gangrene but the odds aren’t good.

    We will heal and grow together

    Is this a tranny siamese fetish? A variant of BIID perhaps?

  16. In addition to the above anti-sane “medical” cockrot, Scotland score a double first for lunacy in giving Count Dankula a I year jail sentence for showing his dog raising a paw–suppopsdly a Hitler salute–on Youtuibe.

    I have already sent an email to the stupid SNP bitch who is his supposed MP and I want to send money for an appeal. I’m not on social media–anyone out their know if a legal fund is being started etc.

    We simply can’t take any more socialist shite without a response.

    Bring it on Redshite.

  17. “We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired”: but they already have those rights. What they mean is that they want to burden me with the duty of paying for it.

    I’d bid them a cheerie “fuck off” if I could be confident that they can fuck.

  18. The only good reason to pay for ‘transgender’ surgeries is that these headcases are even more likely to kill themselves after discovering the implications of having a hairy bit of leg skin transplanted inside a slowly healing wound, and the wonders of ‘dilation’.

    It is obscene that these people feel they can say this stuff and appear in public without people laughing or turning away in disgust, or beating them until they stop if there are kids around.

  19. It seems Dankula has not been jailed but the whole caper has been put back to March. So it’s “Process is the Punishment” time. Still going to send money tho’.

  20. “NiV may be able to rise to the challenge of explaining how this makes sense.”

    It doesn’t make sense.

    These people are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being TG.

  21. I’m happy for them to experiment on themselves so long as they don’t come crying to the ‘colonialist’ doctors they appear to despise in order to have the inevitable foul ups put right.

  22. — “We will heal the damage of borders and states, government and authority, capitalism and imperialism.”

    I recall Danny La Rue topping the bill on The Good Old Days virtually every other week.

    It just doesn’t add up.

  23. These people are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being TG.

    Right.

    People who cut their own dicks off are usually known for being calm and judicious.

  24. “NiV may be able to rise to the challenge of explaining how this makes sense.”

    It doesn’t make sense.

    These people are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being TG.

    One thing about NiV, he always manages get it completely wrong… Even when he’s half right.

  25. NV:These people are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being TG.

    You must be able to do better than that. They’re not just transgender, they are the militant wing of the provisional continuity transgender army.

    Please try harder for Uncle Bison.

  26. For fucks sake, how many trans people are in this country?, cos they seem to make a lot of noise and get noticed.

    Statistically, almost none. Tho there’s a worrying subculture of proselytising to confused, vulnerable teens via the Internet – what some folks call the Transgender Cult. So it’s possible there will be many more mutilated, suicidal adults around in future unless we go Full Putin on this nonsense.

    But the gays are no longer much use as a cultural battering ram against normal family life – victims of their own success – and most people are still in favour of hanging paedos, so trannies are the weapon du jour.

    Sorta like how the police behave as if Moslems have more rights in England than Englishmen do, the Left in general needs its officially privileged victim groups to justify why it needs to brainwash your kids and take away your rights.

    If it wasn’t the tragically gendermonged it’d be people who think they’re flamingos, or owlfuckers, or the Welsh, or something.

  27. Just plain bonkers. No wonder the islamic hordes see us as easy meat. Yeah lets abolish medicine and give em a pair of shears to self medicate.

  28. “You must be able to do better than that. They’re not just transgender, they are the militant wing of the provisional continuity transgender army.”

    [Rolls eyes]

    Oh, yes. And the radical Marxist feminists are the militant wing of the Monstrous Regiment of Women. And we can judge *all* women by their measure. If you’re totally deranged, that is.

    Would you like to tell your wife, mother, or daughter that all women are as nuts as Julie Bindel? That all women are to be considered Marxist Scum that must be defeated at all costs? Do you think that would enhance your case for the return of male supremacy and putting all women in mental hospitals?

    Idiot.

  29. “For fucks sake, how many trans people are in this country?, cos they seem to make a lot of noise and get noticed.”

    Nobody would notice them if Tim didn’t keep searching out stories about them to put up. All the noise is generated here.

  30. Nothing is stopping them from buying a ship and converting it to a hospital ship complete with operating theatres. They could just sail it out into international waters and conduct all the operations that they want.

    Of course they will need the funds to buy the ship. And then the funds to convert the ship. Plus funds to operate the ship. They will also need to learn how to operate a ship in a safe and professional manner. Plus learn how to carry out the snip and clit operations, including how to do anaesthesia (unless they think hypnosis is a viable alternative…).

    Above all else, these people are a bunch of lazy losers who think creating a blog on tumblr will actually achieve something.

    Many people wanted the space age to start for real and thought that watching Star Wars and Star Trek was the way to achieve it. Then Elon Musk came along and showed the lazy fuckers at the Star Trek conventions how to actually do it.

  31. “Would you like to tell your wife, mother, or daughter that all women are as nuts as Julie Bindel?”

    No. But I do say all feminists are as nuts as Julie Bindel. And my wife and daughter agree.

    “All the noise is generated here.”

    There are lots of noisy TG campaigners…haven’t you noticed?

  32. They are welcome to do whatever they like to their own bodies as long as I am not expected to pay for it.

  33. “No. But I do say all feminists are as nuts as Julie Bindel. And my wife and daughter agree.”

    So in the case of feminists claiming to represent all women, you’d consider that obvious nonsense. So why do you put up with it when the exact same leap of illogic is made with respect to TGs?

    “There are lots of noisy TG campaigners…haven’t you noticed?”

    No. The only place I ever see this sort of crap is on here, and I’ve got actual TG friends! You’re obsessed.

    By the way – there are lots of noisy female women’s rights campaigners – have you ever noticed? Want to deduce anything from that?

  34. NiV: Juxtapose these two statements

    These people are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being TG.
    AND
    The radical Marxist feminists are the militant wing of the Monstrous Regiment of Women. And we can judge *all* women by their measure.

    You’ll see the lack of equivalence. To make the connection work you would need to modify the second assertion to read:

    These feminists are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being women.

    Because the first group are a subset of the second group even if you find that an uncomfortable reality.

  35. “You’ll see the lack of equivalence.”

    The statement wasn’t supposed to be equivalent to what I was saying, but to what you lot were saying by suggesting that because one particular set of TGs were nuts, you could generalise that to the entire group. I was using irony.

    “These feminists are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being women.”

    Exactly.

  36. Feminists being nuts has everything to do with them being harridans. Just like trannies are nuts because they’re trannies.

  37. Paul – good find. That’s from the bigoted dark ages of 2004 though, it’s no coincidence the tranny train set off as the Next Big Thing as soon as gay marriage was rammed through Parliament’s lawhole.

    Remember we were told the slippery slope was a fallacy? Turns out the stuffy old squares, bigots and reactionaries were right all along.

  38. NiV’s previous argument was ‘you libertarians must allow the tranny mentalists their imagined rights or otherwise your enemies won’t allow you to vote’; now it has segued to ‘YOU are the only loons who care about this shit’.
    For the record:
    The concept of gender is bullshit.
    Trannies come in 2 categories: mentals who think their brain is a different flavour to their balls and and narcissists who would claim to be the AIDS virus if it would get them attention.
    If you tolerate this bullshit, your children will be the next to get one of NiV’s deranged mate’s cocks waved in their face in the girls changing rooms.
    Pretending these nut jobs and their supporters are normal is like opening the gates of Rome to the mongol hordes.

  39. “NiV’s previous argument was ‘you libertarians must allow the tranny mentalists their imagined rights or otherwise your enemies won’t allow you to vote’; now it has segued to ‘YOU are the only loons who care about this shit’.”

    Double strawman! Impressive!

    “NiV: U mad bro?”

    Nope. I like arguing. 🙂

  40. I can see how fementalists of the Bindel type are so infuriated by the trans mentalists. If your whole thing is how men oppress wimmin all the time then blokes pretending to be birds and demanding extra rights (as you have been) is bound to piss you off
    Both sets of people are deranged and deluded cunts of course, but only one set will ever possess one.

  41. MC – Yarp. It’s more than that though, the trannies literally won’t leave lesbian feminists alone. Butch, chubby girls with sideburns used to be able to enjoy the company of their own sweaty kind in lezzer retreats, clubs and music festivals.

    Their venues have all been crashed, often violently, by stubbly 6ft-plus laydees who aggressively complain when lesbians don’t want to have sex with their lady-penises.

    Only a couple of months ago a 60 year old feminist was punched and kicked to the ground by a tranny in Hyde Park, because she was trying to listen to a speech the decepticon disapproved of.

    It’s a bit of an Alien v Sex Predator scenario, but the dykes deserve some sympathy IMO, they’re not the aggressors here. Our traditional British bulldog-faced lesbians are the goodies in this fight.

  42. Nobody would notice them if Tim didn’t keep searching out stories about them to put up. All the noise is generated here.

    Hear that, Timmy? Your reach of influence is global.

    Your stature is positively Murphyesque!

  43. “Their venues have all been crashed, often violently, by stubbly 6ft-plus laydees who aggressively complain when lesbians don’t want to have sex with their lady-penises.”

    Interesting fantasy. You go to a lot of these venues?

    “Only a couple of months ago a 60 year old feminist was punched and kicked to the ground by a tranny in Hyde Park, because she was trying to listen to a speech the decepticon disapproved of.”

    Nope. A 60 year old feminist went over and was filming a group of chanting trans-activist protestors at close range. A man grabbed her camera, but it was attached by a strap to her wrist, so it pulled her over. There was some kicking and punching, which went both ways, and the camera went flying. Police were looking for a man and two persons of indeterminate gender.

    Can’t you get anything right?

    “Our traditional British bulldog-faced lesbians are the goodies in this fight.”

    🙂

    Amazing to see, transphobia can unite even the extremes! Who would have thought we’d see such fulsome praise for the radical feminists on here?

  44. From the Edinburgh Action for Trans Health manifesto:

    We demand hormones & blockers are made available over-the-counter and by free prescription upon request. We need free, universal access to safe hormones & blockers at any age, the opportunity to decide our own doses, and universally accessible information on the safety & efficacy of different regimens. We are already taking hormones in this way, so this demand is simply that the danger of doing so is effectively mitigated.

    We demand that all therapies that can be are made available at drop-ins, with self-referral for any therapy or procedure for which drop-in is unsuitable.

    We demand anonymous blood tests, both postal & at drop-in endocrinology clinics, where we can seek the advice of a consultant if we wish.

    We demand the freedom to alter our bodies without justification. We demand an end to all surgical prerequisites – nobody should have to prove life experience,health or have to be taking hormones in order to exercise bodily autonomy. We demand that these surgeries can be highly customised to meet our individual & unique needs. We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret. We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

    We demand resources for hair removal anywhere on our bodies, and the option of local anesthetic during these procedures.
    We demand voice coaching that does not coerce us to alter our voices in ways we do not express a need for, but respects our accents and our right to express ourselves however we desire.

    We demand access to counselling & and any other therapies we choose.
    We demand the revocation of medical licenses from all gender clinic doctors & nurses, past and present.

    We demand the power to hold abusers of medical & administrative power accountable for historical & present injustices.

    We demand medical training to enable us to safely carry out medical procedures & research for each other, for anyone of us who wants to learn. We will enhance our collective knowledge, so that the means to understand our bodies is universally accessible. We demand to improve the quality of medications we take and procedures we undergo, to reduce negative side-effects in the long term, and to highlight our own experience and understanding of their effects on our bodies.

    We demand research centres & libraries of knowledge, autonomously & horizontally organised by and for trans people, in which research subjects are equal participants in deciding the experiments conducted & the manner in which those experiments are carried out. We demand full funding for any research or projects undertaken by these collectives.

    We demand mandatory education, written & taught entirely by trans people, at all educational stages, from nursery to adulthood. Trans kids have a need to understand themselves, in the context of their own bodies, lives & experiences. We must repair the damage done by section 28, the legacy of which is still causing harm to today’s children.

    We demand material reparations for historical abuses against trans people, and for all people hurt by eugenicist medical practices and policies.

    We demand an end to birth certificates and to legal gender. Gender records should be anonymised, and only ever recorded as part of equalities monitoring. Neither government, nor any institution, has any justification for keeping a register of trans people. Birth certificates are not just a violence against trans people, they are a material to the state’s oppression of “undocumented” immigrants and asylum seekers.

    We demand good quality, accessible & safe homes for all; and demand adquate resources to trans and marginalised people to establish communes & housing co-operatives to schemes and projects.

    We demand that trans people are immediately freed from police, military & government contracts without repercussions. We reject the system of blackmail that corporations and governments engage in, whereby trans people who can work are “rewarded” with slightly less mistreatment in exchange for the exploitation of our labour. We will not allow pinkwashing of the violence of capitalism, imperialism and the state.

    We demand amnesty, recourse to public funds and indefinite right to remain for all trans, lesbian, gay and bisexual immigrants & asylum seekers. No one is illegal.

    We demand immediate release & pardon for all trans prisoners.

    Batshit crazy doesn’t even begin to describe it. And given that this is on Tumblr, you just know the Edinburgh ATH is a late teens to early twenties guy in make-up and one of mom’s dresses bashing away at a computer from the basement of his parent’s home.

  45. NiV: ’Nope. I like arguing. ’

    Usually, if someone likes something, and has done it for long enough, they are good at it.

    Ah, well, exceptions, rule…

  46. “Batshit crazy doesn’t even begin to describe it.”

    Oh, I think it does.

    But what about this…?

    “Just as to ensure elimination of economic classes requires the revolt of the underclass (the proletariat) and, in a temporary dictatorship, their seizure of the means of production, so to assure the elimination of sexual classes requires the revolt of the underclass (women) and the seizure of control of reproduction: not only the full restoration to women of ownership of their own bodies, but also their [temporary) seizure of control of human fertility—the new population biology as well as all the social institutions of child-bearing and child-rearing. … [T]he end goal of feminist revolution must be, unlike that of the first feminist movement, not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally.”

    Women, eh? 🙂

  47. “Usually, if someone likes something, and has done it for long enough, they are good at it.”

    I am good at it. But you can’t win an argument against someone who pays no attention to evidence, consistency, relevance, or basic logic.

    This whole post is about Tim finding a deranged post by some Marxist who happens to be TG, and then everyone using that as a non-sequitur excuse to be rude about TGs. There’s no connection cited or even argued. It’s got the same deranged logic as pointing to an example of radical feminism, and then filling a thread with rude comments about women on the back of it. What is there to argue with?

    “Ah, well, exceptions, rule…”

    And do you know what that phrase actually means?

  48. Here’s another batshit insane tranny transgendered person describing their perfectly normal and healthy desires:

    With that being said, I loved watching Anna Kendrick being killed in Voices. I re-watched her break her neck and lay in bed in her lovely dress helplessly at least five times. That’s where my fantasies center around. I want girls like her to be hurt. Badly. I often subdue bouts of painful dysphoria with more powerful thoughts of hurting the girl who caused it. I feel guilty for feeling this way and these desires date back a few years. Psychology has taught me that this potentially originates from the overwhelming need to control a female body, the delusion that harming a beautiful women at my own hands feeds my desperation to be ultimately near to and have control over her body.

    The truth is that I would do anything to be Anna Kendrick, but I fear that, in leu of that ever being a possibility, I would just kill her if ever given the chance, and sob inconsolably over her perfection after the fact.

    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/ryan-terry-torn-between-all-of-envy-lust-and-hatred/

    Clarice Starling did nothing wrong.

  49. “We demand”

    Without a gun, your demands mean nothing to anyone.

    Their demands invite mockery.

    We demand 7-Up in all water fountains.

    We demand universal Wi-Fi coverage.

    We demand front row seats at the Globe.

    We demand snow on January 19.

    Here’s an idea: go on a hunger strike until your demands are met.

  50. Auntie P: Come on now, you really aren’t that good at arguing.

    The statement wasn’t supposed to be equivalent to what I was saying, but to what you lot were saying by suggesting that because one particular set of TGs were nuts, you could generalise that to the entire group. I was using irony.

    AND

    These people are nuts – but that doesn’t have anything to do with them also being TG.

    It’s clear that these people by your own admission are both “nuts” and “TG”.

    It’s true that you don’t have to be transgender to be nuts but people who are nuts and argue stridently while impersonating walnuts, pistacchios, hazels, brazils, almonds, cashews, pinenuts and the entire panoply of the nut world in favour of transgender liberation (or whatever you might want to call it) are both nuts and transgender.

    By the way, you’re not much cop at irony either.

  51. “Clarice Starling did nothing wrong.”

    Having failed to make the argument with radical Marxists and TGs, you’re now going to try it with serial killers and TGs. Classy.

    But the logic still has the same hole in it.

    “Come on now, you really aren’t that good at arguing.”

    Is that supposed to be a counter-argument?! Whether I am or not, you certainly aren’t!

    Yes, the person who wrote that was both nuts and a TG.

    Julie Bindel is both nuts and a woman.

    QED?

  52. In fairness transsexual have been performing their own surgery for some time now:

    It rubs the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again.

    NiV – “Nope. A 60 year old feminist went over and was filming a group of chanting trans-activist protestors at close range. A man grabbed her camera, but it was attached by a strap to her wrist, so it pulled her over. There was some kicking and punching, which went both ways, and the camera went flying. Police were looking for a man and two persons of indeterminate gender.”

    So in other words it went down exactly as Steve said. A butch lesbian was doing something completely legal when she was assaulted by some Trans.

  53. “So in other words it went down exactly as Steve said.”

    Apart from the bits where he said:

    “Only a couple of months ago…”

    Four months.

    “… a 60 year old feminist was punched and kicked to the ground…”

    Dragged to the ground by an attempt to snatch her camera.

    “… by a tranny….”

    By three people, one of who was described as a man. (She herself described them as “kids”)

    “… in Hyde Park,…”

    Well, that’s right. Not very challenging, though.

    “… because she was trying to listen to a speech the decepticon disapproved of.”

    Because she was filming some protestors at close range.

    So, spotting that it happened in Hyde Park and getting everything else totally wrong counts as “So in other words it went down exactly as Steve said” does it?

    Interesting standard of accuracy you have there.

    And it’s an utterly retarded argument, anyway. If a straight cis-gendered man punched and kicked Julie Bindel in the face, would that count as a convincing argument for the insanity of men in general?

    😉

  54. NiV – “Apart from the bits where he said:”

    “Four months.”

    You have outdone yourself dude. Four is not a couple?

    “Dragged to the ground by an attempt to snatch her camera.”

    With kicks and punches following. So in your own account she was assaulted in an attempt to steal her camera, kicked, punched and knocked to the ground. How precisely does that differ from what Steve said?

    “By three people, one of who was described as a man. (She herself described them as “kids”)”

    Getting angry at a Tranny Rally? So almost certainly all three were Trannies. Two of them at least.

    “Because she was filming some protestors at close range.”

    Listening with electronic back-up then. This is pathetic hair splitting.

    “So, spotting that it happened in Hyde Park and getting everything else totally wrong counts as “So in other words it went down exactly as Steve said” does it?”

    He still got it exactly as you admit it happened. You are forced to rely on the most pathetic level of hair splitting quibbling I have seen in a long time. Even assuming your account is correct.

    “Interesting standard of accuracy you have there.”

    Back at ya kid.

    “And it’s an utterly retarded argument, anyway. If a straight cis-gendered man punched and kicked Julie Bindel in the face, would that count as a convincing argument for the insanity of men in general?”

    It might well be. But that is neither here nor there when talking about the accuracy of Steve’s account. Bindel deserves a good kicking so that is a wrong counter example. Especially as cishet men rarely kick or punch any women to the ground. A better comparison would be the hippy chick who was killed at Charlotte. Sure most Neo-Nazis don’t run over women with their cars. But enough of them commit acts of violence that it is not that much of a surprise when one did.

  55. Ridiculous! Can’t you do any better?

    “You have outdone yourself dude. Four is not a couple?”

    Dictionary definition of “couple”, available after about one second’s Googling:

    Two people or things of the same sort considered together.

    If you don’t even know the meaning of standard English words, what hope do we have for a sensible conversation?

    The two versions are NOT the same. Steve got the story completely wrong. And it’s beyond ludicrous that you think you can maintain the argument that they are in the face of such blatant errors.

    I mean, sometimes you guys come up with some interesting arguments that – while wrong – are at least plausible misunderstandings. But there’s no way you can possibly not know you’re just dribbling here! That’s NO fun!

    Try and come up with something a little more serious than a lame attempt to claim that 2 = 4.

  56. NiV – “Double strawman”

    Are you trying to kid yourself or us? I described, somewhat facetiously, your lines of argument.

    The weakness of your arguments against Steve and SMFS show how support of tranny mentalism destroys the capacity for reason.

  57. If someone reads this rubbish and doesn’t think it’s insane, then there is no point debating with them because they are obviously insane too.

  58. NiV – “Ridiculous! Can’t you do any better?”

    This is the moment I can’t be bothered being rude because mainly what I feel is pity. Sad.

    “Dictionary definition of “couple”, available after about one second’s Googling:”

    Also a definition of “couple”, also available after about one second’s googling:

    informal An indefinite small number. Some synonyms for “a couple”: a few, two or three, a small number of

    No husband in the history of the world who has replied “a couple” when asked how much he has had to drink has meant just two. If you can cite a single book or film where the police asking someone to come down to the station to answer a couple of questions meaning exactly two I will concede this argument. Just one.

    “If you don’t even know the meaning of standard English words, what hope do we have for a sensible conversation?”

    Indeed. But that boat sailed a long time ago didn’t it?

    “The two versions are NOT the same. Steve got the story completely wrong. And it’s beyond ludicrous that you think you can maintain the argument that they are in the face of such blatant errors.”

    They are exactly the same. You and Steve agree the lesbian came to where some Trans were talking. They attacked her – you say grabbed her camera but it is the same thing. She ended up on the ground after being kicked and punched. There is no dispute about that. So the facts are the same on both sides.

  59. I think that what actually drives them this insane is the frustration of knowing that even if all their ludicrous “demands” were met they would still just look like Arthur Mullard in a dress.

  60. This…entity…is clearly deranged. One for the professionals to keep tabs on, I think. Definite potential for some extreme act of violence there.

  61. So NiV, just to be completely clear, how many handicapped children do you want to deny treatment to in order to pay for some marxist TG loony have his dick cut off and some voice training?

  62. NiV

    “This whole post is about Tim finding a deranged post by some Marxist who happens to be TG, and then everyone using that as a non-sequitur excuse to be rude about TGs.”

    TGs do have a habit of making deranged remarks in the course of pressing for society to be reordered to accommodate their mental illness(es)…

    “There’s no connection cited or even argued. It’s got the same deranged logic as pointing to an example of radical feminism, and then filling a thread with rude comments about women on the back of it.”

    There you go again, even though your equivocation has been pointed to you above by the porcelain bovine and myself. Feminists are mocked here because they are deranged – like TGs – not because they are women. And non-feminist women are not blamed for the insanity of feminists.

    “I am good at it. But you can’t win an argument against someone who pays no attention to evidence, consistency, relevance, or basic logic.”

    You are seriously deluded about your abilities. Jim in the previous thread about Islam refuted you comprehensively, but you refused to see this. Likewise in your exchange with SMFS above.

  63. They are adults. If they want to experiment on their own bodies, go ahead. My personal beliefs includes full soverignty of a person’s body, so whatever a person wishes to do to their own body is entirely their business. and it would be repugnant to interfere.

    It does sound like a John Varley 8-worlds story outline, though.

  64. This thing would never have come to my attention if Tim hadn’t trawled to find it. NiV is correct. It’s an obsession here.

  65. Well thanks for bringing it up, Tim!

    Note that it is “We demand,” not “I demand.” These people claim to represent trannies. Their flaws therefore can be applied to trannies, the group they represent.

    Groups are not insulated from their representatives. Don’t gripe at us, gripe at your representatives if you don’t like what they are saying. Else we conclude that you don’t disagree with them. And that is the preliminary conclusion. Telling us not to complain about what your representatives said is tacit approval.

  66. ” If a straight cis-gendered man
    NiV. Since you’re so keen on people being referred to by their self chosen labels, shouldn’t think there’s many here enjoy being described as “cis-gendered males”. Or even recognise the term. Perhaps you should consider this & refrain from using such an offensive description.

  67. “Are you trying to kid yourself or us? I described, somewhat facetiously, your lines of argument.”

    And got both of them wrong. I’m not sure if that was deliberately misrepresenting them to avoid having to answer them, or because you didn’t understand. I was generous and assumed the former.

    “The weakness of your arguments against Steve and SMFS show how support of tranny mentalism destroys the capacity for reason.”

    But nobody can show any actual weakness. You just assert that there are unspecified weaknesses there and figure unsupported assertion substitutes for argument. Do you think that’s “reason”?

    “It seems NiV is as bad at maths as biology….”

    Do *you* think 2 = 4?

    “If someone reads this rubbish and doesn’t think it’s insane, then there is no point debating with them because they are obviously insane too.”

    If somebody reads someone saying explicitly in their first comment that it’s insane and carries on thinking that person said it was’t, then there’s no point in debating with them because they don’t understand the words written.

    “This is the moment I can’t be bothered being rude because mainly what I feel is pity. Sad.”

    Save your pity, it’s unnecessary.

    “No husband in the history of the world who has replied “a couple” when asked how much he has had to drink has meant just two. If you can cite a single book or film where the police asking someone to come down to the station to answer a couple of questions meaning exactly two I will concede this argument. Just one.”

    No, the husband intends her to think just two, even when he drank more. No husband says “a couple” if he intends his wife to understand that to mean four or five. (The police lie too.)

    When a man tells a woman they’re going to become a “happy couple”, she’s not expecting the other two girlfriends to turn up at the altar…

    It means two, and you know it. Wriggle all you like.

    “Indeed. But that boat sailed a long time ago didn’t it?”

    No. A lot of the arguments here are wrong and misinformed, but you can see where people get it from or why they might think that way. It provides an interesting exercise to identify the misunderstanding or find the evidence. And you, in particular, tend to come up with arguments of genuine interest.

    But this one is stupid. It’s a variant on the old “Hitler was a vegetarian” argument. I *know* you can do better.

    “There is no dispute about that. So the facts are the same on both sides.”

    More interesting maths!

    The set {A,B,C,D,E} is *identical* to the set {F,G,H,D,I} because the letters are the same in both sets!

    You don’t *seriously* think that because there are some claims that overlap, all the differences don’t matter?

    “I think that what actually drives them this insane is the frustration of knowing that even if all their ludicrous “demands” were met they would still just look like Arthur Mullard in a dress.”

    Arthur’s changed a bit!

    “This…entity…is clearly deranged. One for the professionals to keep tabs on, I think. Definite potential for some extreme act of violence there.”

    You do realise that the same may be said of transphobes?

    “So NiV, just to be completely clear, how many handicapped children do you want to deny treatment to in order to pay for some marxist TG loony have his dick cut off and some voice training?”

    Ah! The “But think of the children!” Appeal to Emotion!

    As I’ve said repeatedly, I don’t agree with taxpayer funded healthcare, but I make no distinctions. How many cancer patients do you want to kill paying for your handicapped children to have a nice day out? How many miscarriages do you want to allow to pay for the lung cancer treatment of a 40-a-day lifelong smoker? How many adorable kittens and puppies do you want to see suffer because you didn’t donate *everything* you own to the RSPCA Christmas charity appeal?

    And what about the right-wing TGs? They’re not all Marxists.

    “TGs do have a habit of making deranged remarks in the course of pressing for society to be reordered to accommodate their mental illness(es)…”

    You’re thinking of Marxists again.

    99% of TGs are invisible. They don’t campaign. They don’t make public speeches. They don’t get involved in politics, or changing society. They don’t appear on TV or the radio. They don’t go on protest marches. They don’t kill people, or attack them, or cause trouble. They don’t want to draw any attention to themselves. They keep their heads down, and hope to get through the next week without some ignorant, self-opinionated dickhead hassling them.

    In just the same way that most students are not political firebrands, and most women are not into radical feminism, and most Catholic priests are not child molesters. You see only the noisy froth on TV, and assume that’s representative of the whole. It’s like the way a lot of the people I know thing right-wingers are all like Richard Spencer or Nick Griffin.

    “There you go again, even though your equivocation has been pointed to you above by the porcelain bovine and myself. Feminists are mocked here because they are deranged – like TGs – not because they are women.”

    Yes! That’s exactly the point of the analogy!

    There are Marxists and there are TGs, and the two sets overlap. Marxist TGs are nuts. Marxist non-TGs are nuts. But they’re nuts because they’re Marxists, not because they are or are not TGs.

    In exactly the same way, there are radical feminists and there are women, and the two sets overlap. Radical feminist women are nuts. radical feminist men are nuts. But they’re nuts because they’re radical feminists, not because they are or are not women. It’s just an unrelated characteristic.

    You’ve presented an example of Marxist putting out a Marxist screed. They happen to be a TG, but they also happen to be from Edinburgh, have two arms and legs, and speak English. Do we condemn all fully-limbed English-speaking Scots as Marxist loonies because of this one example?!

    The logic doesn’t follow. I’m trying to explain to you why it doesn’t follow by giving an analogous argument that uses exactly the same logic but which you can more easily see is wrong and stupid. And all you can do is point out that the conclusion doesn’t follow, as if that was *my* problem!

    “You are seriously deluded about your abilities. Jim in the previous thread about Islam refuted you comprehensively, but you refused to see this.”

    Only by you guy imputing to me strawman positions I hadn’t taken!

    Nobody refuted me – nobody even came close. The argument was about freedom of belief and freedom of speech. Both freedoms necessarily require the freedom for people to say and believe things we disagree with. So supporting freedom does not imply support for all the things people believe or say with it.

    The best counter anyone could come up with was that if it was a matter of survival then the means justified the ends. Of course, that’s the exactly same argument the SJWs used to argue against the “fascist right” and the election of Trump.

    You have no faith in the strength or attraction of Western culture. Thats sad.

    “Note that it is “We demand,” not “I demand.” These people claim to represent trannies. Their flaws therefore can be applied to trannies, the group they represent.”

    “We, the people, demand…”

    “We, the workers, demand…”

    Anyone who starts with either of the above, their flaws can be ascribed to the people/the workers? Really?

  68. WD40—General socialist evil is doing its very best to fuck up and destroy society.

    Trannie antics are a direct attack on the future –as is all CM bullshit. The use of “you’re a woman if you say you are” to “normalise” marxist subjectivist bullshit represents a very great danger for the future.

    A future of 2+2=-5 if the Party tells you so. That is the aim.

    And any one with eyes to see should step to counter that evil.

    So go piss up your leg and play with the steam.

  69. “Since you’re so keen on people being referred to by their self chosen labels, shouldn’t think there’s many here enjoy being described as “cis-gendered males”. Or even recognise the term. Perhaps you should consider this & refrain from using such an offensive description.”

    Since you’re so keen on people being referred to as whatever insulting term the referrer likes, perhaps you should consider this and stop being such a snowflake? 😉

  70. Nivea – enough now: your posts are too long, too repetetive and utterly unconvincing.

    Ecksie – don’t forget to watch Spiral tonight on BBC4!

  71. TMB–I can look at ugly-to-(very)marginal women all day without having to suffer Gallic TV Cop twaddle as well. And patronise the BBC.

    Thanks for the thought tho’.

  72. “Nivea – enough now: your posts are too long, too repetetive and utterly unconvincing.”

    Oh, surely not. I was hoping NiV could explain what it is about the Edinburgh crew’s statements that is “nuts” and “batshit crazy”, as opposed to what “transgender” people generally say and believe about themselves and the world.

  73. “Nivea – enough now: your posts are too long, too repetetive and utterly unconvincing.”

    They’r elong because there are a lot of people to argue with. They’re repetitive because people pretend not to have understood the first time round. And they’re unconvincing because you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t use reason to form.

    But as I’ve said several times before, if you don’t want to discuss it, don’t discuss it. I’m not the one who keeps on bringing the subject up every few days…

    “Oh, surely not. I was hoping NiV could explain what it is about the Edinburgh crew’s statements that is “nuts” and “batshit crazy”, as opposed to what “transgender” people generally say and believe about themselves and the world.”

    No problem. What do you want to know? The bit about “We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”” is a pretty fair indication you’re talking to a Marxist nutter. Most transgender people go along with what the medical profession say. Which is that it’s not a mental illness, it’s due to developmental problems in the womb causing the brain to be wired like the opposite sex to the body (androgen receptor genes have been identified), and that medical technology is not up to re-wiring the brain, so the only effective option available (if one is needed) is to correct the body.

    Modern science presents a very different picture to the traditional view dating back to Moses the Slayer, and people brought up with that viewpoint are sometimes unable to accept reality when it conflicts with their personal belief system. Capitalist & colonialist “medicine” has a few things to say about that, too. But freedom of belief means that people are free to believe even things that are untrue. So long as they don’t force their views on others, and don’t mind people pointing it out to them, that’s fine.

  74. NiV – ‘most’ medical people don’t think it’s a mental illness? Fuck right off with your bollocks. (As your tranny mates might say, only substituting ‘my’ for ‘your’).

    “The only effect option … is to correct the body”

    Cutting a nutter’s cock off is not ‘correcting the body’.

  75. “NiV supports his representatives”

    And having explained the illogic of presuming that anyone claiming to represent “the people” or “the workers” really does, you think you’re argument still stands?

    You said “Groups are not insulated from their representatives. Don’t gripe at us, gripe at your representatives if you don’t like what they are saying. Else we conclude that you don’t disagree with them.” But my very first comment on them was “These people are nuts”. I’ve also said they had nothing to do with TGs. So clearly I do disagree with them, and reject them as representatives.

    Clearly it’s not enough to do exactly what you said I was required to do, because you *still* manage to conclude I agree with them! Against logic like that, what am I supposed to do?

  76. “NiV – ‘most’ medical people don’t think it’s a mental illness? Fuck right off with your bollocks.”

    Like I said, some people have a problem with reality.

    You think the NHS treats it as they do because they all disagree with it?

    Incidentally, only 13% of people in the UK think it’s a mental illness, let alone the medical profession. You’re a bit out of date.

  77. “Incidentally, only 13% of people in the UK think it’s a mental illness, let alone the medical profession. You’re a bit out of date.”

    Cockrot NiV–just as 99% of Americans thought Killery was going to win.

    “Which is that it’s not a mental illness, it’s due to developmental problems in the womb causing the brain to be wired like the opposite sex to the body (androgen receptor genes have been identified), and that medical technology is not up to re-wiring the brain,”

    So it is a mental illness/dysfunction.

    Now if troubled people want to pretend to be women, play dress up etc I don’t care save for 2 provisos:

    1-They don’t get in women’s toilets with their dick still attached. That proves they are serious players. And will keep the numbers very small. The amount of trouble that such very few folk will cause in the toilets will be minimal. Dick attached they don’t get in. Because that opens the floodgates to the numbers of perverts, crims etc out there. Not going to argue any further that is it.

    2- There don’t EVER get acknowledged as BEING women. They are not women and the entire reason that the scum of the left support and endorse them is to use trannies to get a foothold for Marxian subjectivist evil. They are not women and their claims that they are DO NOT alter the physical reality that they are men with dysfunctional brains. If in the future their brains can be fixed fine. If in the far future their bodies really can be turned into actual women right down to the cellular level then fine also. Then their claims and reality can be brought into alignment. Until that distant age there can and will be no corruption of objective reality by Marxian bullshit. They remain the sex they are not the one they would like to be.

  78. “Cockrot NiV–just as 99% of Americans thought Killery was going to win.”

    Really?! Evidence, please…

  79. I believe the 99% per cent certain figure was announced on US TV .It may actually have been a summation of bullshit from some leftist talking head rather than an actual poll. Who cares? It illustrates the point that surveys are mostly political propaganda rather than evidence. If we had a referendum on what people actually think of trannies that might give a better more accurate result. Until then you claims of mass support for trans are still bullshit nonsense.

  80. “So go piss up your leg and play with the steam.” Mr Ecks. A strange response to a simple, apolitical statement.

    WD40, haha, well done Mr Sheen.

  81. “I believe the 99% per cent certain figure was announced on US TV.”

    I care. Source please, otherwise stop lying.

  82. “I believe the 99% per cent certain figure was announced on US TV .It may actually have been a summation of bullshit from some leftist talking head rather than an actual poll.”

    Or it might have been shit made up by the voices in your own head. TV pundits are generally a little more careful about easily checkable facts about polls.

    “Who cares?”

    Who cares about the truth? Clearly not you.

    We have here a case of one side relying on actual polls, and the other relying on dribble they made up because that’s the way they want reality to be. It turned out the polls were more accurate. And surprise! – the side relying on dribble says “Who cares about reality? Pay attention to my feeeelz!

    Yes, I agree that a public opinion poll is not evidence that it is or is not a mental illness. It *is* evidence that the view is not rare, and that it should hardly be surprising to anyone if the medical profession think so, when their view has already percolated out to 87% of the population.

    Well, when I say “anyone”, I mean anyone who doesn’t think 99% of Americans thought Hillary was going to win, based on nothing but the voices in their own head, that is.

    “If we had a referendum on what people actually think of trannies that might give a better more accurate result.”

    Bring it on! 🙂

    But until then…

  83. “NiV, are you a spokes model for Edinburgh Action for Trans Health?”

    No. Given that I started off by saying “These people are nuts” I would have thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

  84. WD40 The Question?–How many believers in socialism think murdering 150 million people was justified to bring about the promised Utopia- that you’re still waiting for. And always will be.,

    Oh btw Dickwad here’s one of your 99%–and he’s a scientistic as well:

    http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/scientist-predicts-99-chance-of-clinton-win-801634371744

    Oh and here’s another report on the same clown you SSOS —

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sam-wang-princeton-election-consortium-poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-victory-a7399671.html

    And one more time you sanctimonious POS–

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/polls-hillary-clinton-win_us_5821074ce4b0e80b02cc2a94

    NiV–My statement that 99% of Americans etc was ironical. I never believed that Americans believed any such tripe. I sought to illustrate how leftist liars in the MSM tried to peddle ( and perhaps even sincerely believed even as you believe your own bullshit) the 99% figure. Which they obtained from their hopelessly biased in-bubble voter surveys.

  85. “The bit about “We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”” is a pretty fair indication you’re talking to a Marxist nutter.”

    You’ve just repeated what they’ve said and repeated your assertion that they’re nuts for saying it. You haven’t said why they are nuts. What is about these beliefs that makes the holders of them batshit crazy? Are they in some way clearly not founded in reality?

  86. “Oh btw Dickwad here’s one of your 99%–and he’s a scientistic as well:”

    One American saying 99% probability is obviously not the same as 99% of Americans saying they expect it to happen. But you already knew that.

    “NiV–My statement that 99% of Americans etc was ironical. I never believed that Americans believed any such tripe.”

    Uh huh.

    “I sought to illustrate how leftist liars in the MSM tried to peddle […] the 99% figure.”

    By peddling it yourself?

    They peddled *a* 99% figure, but not the one you claimed. It doesn’t really matter; it’s just illustrative of the casual attitude to truth, accuracy, and evidence everyone else here has. You have to behave *better* than the left do if you want to beat them (or me).

    “You’ve just repeated what they’ve said and repeated your assertion that they’re nuts for saying it. You haven’t said why they are nuts.”

    I’d have thought that was obvious, but fair enough. The delivery of medicine in the UK isn’t capitalist, because it is delivered by the NHS, a socialist system. It’s not colonialist either, given that it’s delivered to natives of this country, not colonies. (Although I’ve an idea it’s a Marxist codeword for something else – I can’t be bothered figuring out what.) And the capitalist elements of the medical system would be far more likely to deliver what the customer wanted, rather than socialist systems that deliver what the government thinks the customers *ought* to want, which seems to be what he or she is complaining about.

    “Are they in some way clearly not founded in reality?”

    Yes.

    The author seems to be under the impression that the medical community are opposed to TG interests, which is not the case.

    And they’re using various Marxist buzzwords, which indicates they’re a communist of some sort, and that’s not founded in reality either.

    Good enough? Or was you looking for something else?

  87. Having waded through some of this, can’t help thinking it would help if Socrates showed up to settle the argument?

  88. Mr Sheen, good call on the 99% pollster, I agree! It’s amazing to think that anyone, let alone a ‘scientist’, would put their name to a 99 in the public domain. You win that one.

    However this:

    You suggested a referendum

    if we had a referendum on what people actually think of trannies that might give a better more accurate result.

    I asked:

    What would the referendum question be?

    Your response is this

    How many believers in socialism think murdering 150 million people was justified to bring about the promised Utopia- that you’re still waiting for. And always will be.

    Mr Ecks, If you want to pretend to be some sort of Randian champion, at least pretend to have some sort of intellectual vigour.

    And before you start bleating on, cretin, the only way to smash pervasive communism is by garnering an equal opposing intellectual narrative. Tits like you, and while I’m at it, the whole of the US neos who are more interested in petty violence and justifying rape – are a hindrance to disseminating the truth through established channels.

    I’m guessing you’re a teenager.

    All of that said, NiV is still correct. You’re all obsessed about sexuality. Now I’ve delved, the total content in the last few pages is fucking shallow.

    My guess is is that Mr Sheen is a sub. Allo Allo style.

  89. NiV–You argue the letter of 99% statement because you know well that the substance is correct. No– 99% of the US population did not believe Kill would win. But the MSM said that was the probability because–like your trans survey bullshit– they remained inside the bubble.

    “It doesn’t really matter; it’s just illustrative of the casual attitude to truth, accuracy, and evidence everyone else here has.”

    That is just sanctimonious bullshit. You as the guardian of Truth? Get yourself a mask and some long underwear you ridiculous nitwit.

    ” You have to behave *better* than the left do if you want to beat them (or me).”

    The scum of the left wouldn’t know truth if they tripped over it. And the allergic reaction would kill them in nanoseconds.

    You –neither I nor nobody else– needs to beat. You are a deluded rumpkin in the form of a random clutch of electrons dribbled on a screen.

  90. WD40–You seem to assume I took your “question” crap as a serious one when you and I know that you are just a lefttroll.

    “And before you start bleating on, cretin, the only way to smash pervasive communism is by garnering an equal opposing intellectual narrative.”

    Yeah–cos the “intellectual narrative” is what the mass-murdering cunts are all about. Rather than pathetic envy, spite and a 3-year olds “its not fair”. The legion of contemporary intellectuals like Corbog, Killery , Abbot etc are obvious intellectual dynamite that mere ordinary folk could never match.

    Newsflash numbnut the left were thick as pigshit and a gang of arch liars from Big Beard Karl right on down.

    “Tits like you, and while I’m at it, the whole of the US neos who are more interested in petty violence and justifying rape ”

    Ramble on you fucking idiot –that doesn’t even make sense.

    “– are a hindrance to disseminating the truth through established channels.”

    CNN perchance? The Guardian?

    ” You’re all obsessed about sexuality.”

    Trannies are nothing to do with sex. Mental illness is the section you should be looking under.

    “Now I’ve delved, the total content in the last few pages is fucking shallow.”

    Delved? Even if English is your second language you still sound like your first is Martian.

    “My guess is is that Mr Sheen is a sub. Allo Allo style.”

    English translation anybody?

    “I’m guessing you’re a teenager.”

    I’m a teenager who remembers the Woodentops. And here you are back again. Snotty Dog in person.

  91. Sigh. Mr Ecks. You are obviously in a state of constant froth.

    I really don’t want to keep rubbing your stupid face in the dirt. I spelled it out quite clearly last post.

    If you actually read what I said, I was indicating that if you want to beat your enemies, you need to be better at their own game. Do you think you are being better than them? You are a bonafide fuckwit. A weak link in any grass root political movement. Do you want to change things or do you want to wank while watching “birds with big tits firing ak-47s”?

    The sad thing is Mr Ecks, is that you’ve invented a childish narrative throughout this thread without actually understanding the words in the sentences that form opinions for discussion. I’m sorry I’ve used easy words like ‘delve’ that have obviously rattled your rattle, I suggest you re-read the conversation above and see where you went wrong.

    Oh, and don’t do the the ‘cockrot 150 million CM etc’, grow the fuck up.

  92. Tim- I’d repost this to the top of the blog tomorrow – many more comments and you’ll be able to say that you are the most influential economist in Britain As per Murphylogic

  93. WD–“I really don’t want to keep rubbing your stupid face in the dirt. I spelled it out quite clearly last post.”

    When you’ve managed it boast chum–not before.

    Better than mass murderers and world-class liars? Er.. yeah I am.

    “You are a bonafide fuckwit”

    No my credentials are fake. I sent in two box tops off Sunny Jim Force packets into Labour Party HQ to get them.

    “A weak link in any grass root political movement.”

    I am GrassRoot.

    “Do you want to change things or do you want to wank while watching “birds with big tits firing ak-47s”?”

    Can’t I do both? At the same time.

    “The sad thing is Mr Ecks, is that you’ve invented a childish narrative throughout this thread without actually understanding the words in the sentences that form opinions for discussion.”

    Your strange dissociated style mixed in with nuggets of pure weird kinda remind me of my old pal Meiac. You talk high-falutin’ compared with his earthy epithets but if it is you big M you must be close to using up the last of your brainpower by now.

    “I’m sorry I’ve used easy words like ‘delve’ that have obviously rattled your rattle, ”

    Delve I can understand. The verbiage attached to it was the problem.

    As for you being sick of the 150 million murders etc. The fact it upsets “narrative” fans like you is why I use it all the time. That and to ensure no one forgets the sheer evil of a crew who think that their bullshit can wipe away the stain of such tragedy and human suffering.

  94. NiV – “No, the husband intends her to think just two, even when he drank more. No husband says “a couple” if he intends his wife to understand that to mean four or five. (The police lie too.)”

    Well perhaps Steve intended you to think two. Or perhaps he was not certainly and so used a perfectly acceptable English expression meaning a couple? Who knows? We clearly need Great Minds to work on this problem.

    “It means two, and you know it. Wriggle all you like.”

    We are back with the pity again. If you don’t like it, take it up with the Oxford English Dictionary. Steve’s use was entirely correct.

    “But this one is stupid. It’s a variant on the old “Hitler was a vegetarian” argument. I *know* you can do better.”

    Well Hitler was a vegetarian in the same way most vegetarians are vegetarians. He ate some meat from time to time. But no matter. As my argument here is simply that what Steve said was an accurate description of the events. Which it was. Nothing stupid about it at all. Unlike your insistence that the OED is wrong and “a couple” means precisely two and no more.

    “You don’t *seriously* think that because there are some claims that overlap, all the differences don’t matter?”

    No, I think that because there are no differences, there are no differences. What differences do you think exist? You have admitted that the women was minding her own business when she was attacked. You have admitted she was punched and kicked. You have admitted that she was knocked to the ground. What is left?

  95. Wriggle. Wriggle. Wriggle.

    ” You have admitted that the women was minding her own business when she was attacked. You have admitted she was punched and kicked. You have admitted that she was knocked to the ground.”

    “Admitted” is the wrong word, given that I never disagreed, and those points are of no consequence to my main argument.

    The issue is accuracy. Getting four fifths of the story wrong and then trying to claim you was totally correct is either dishonest or delusional. It makes it impossible to have a sensible debate when either side can make up their own ‘facts’ at will, stubbornly maintain their truth even after they’ve been shown to be wrong, and nobody sees anything wrong with that.

    You can’t have an intelligent debate with people who don’t follow the rules of logical argument. All you can have is a shouting match.

    It would have been a lot simpler just to say “He obviously misremembered. We’ll do better next time.”

  96. You did disagree. That is the point. But it hardly matters. Nor does your lame evasion.

    If you have a difference with Steve’s account, let’s hear it. You have not mentioned one – apart from the pathetic claim that “a couple” means two and only two. I don’t think you will. Because Steve’s account was exactly 100% in agreement with what you have admitted. You just continue to deny reality.

  97. “If you have a difference with Steve’s account, let’s hear it.”

    [Rolls eyes]

    From above:

    Apart from the bits where he said:

    “Only a couple of months ago…”

    Four months.

    “… a 60 year old feminist was punched and kicked to the ground…”

    Dragged to the ground by an attempt to snatch her camera.

    “… by a tranny….”

    By three people, one of who was described as a man. (She herself described them as “kids”)

    “… in Hyde Park,…”

    Well, that’s right. Not very challenging, though.

    “… because she was trying to listen to a speech the decepticon disapproved of.”

    Because she was filming some protestors at close range.

    So, spotting that it happened in Hyde Park and getting everything else totally wrong counts as “So in other words it went down exactly as Steve said” does it?

    Interesting standard of accuracy you have there.

    And it’s an utterly retarded argument, anyway. If a straight cis-gendered man punched and kicked Julie Bindel in the face, would that count as a convincing argument for the insanity of men in general?

    I’ll emphasise that last point. It’s a retarded argument. You pick an example of a person of type X carrying out some abhorrent crime, and use that to smear all other people of type X. Here’s an example of a man raping women, so all men are rapists. Here’s an example of a right-winger driving his truck into a crowd of protestors. So all right-wingers are murderers. Here’s an example of a woman spouting deranged Marxist nonsense, so all women are nutty radical feminists. Hitler was a vegetarian, so vegetarians are evil.

    It’s an idiots’ argument that proves nothing – so nothing is gained by ‘forcing’ me to ‘admit’ to it. A vegetarian could quite cheerfully admit to Hitler being one, without losing one iota of moral validity. The only person who loses anything is the moron who thought that was a good argument.

    But I’d already dealt with that point – repeatedly, at length, multiple times, and with several examples and analogies given to try to get the very simple concept through some people’s thick skulls. What I was talking about instead was the practice of just making shit up, being called on it, and then continuing as if nothing had just happened.

    And you’re still doing it! Virtually everything he said was wrong. The errors have no particular bearing on the argument – which was invalid anyway – but they do have a bearing on the rules of debate. Can anyone make up unreferenced shit, get called on it, carry on regardless asserting the same debunked shit as if nothing had happened, and get away with it? (Or is that just the rule for everyone but me?)

    I’m accused of “denying reality” while at the same time you’re admitting I had already said all the stuff you seem so desperate to get me to say, that I’m accused of denying. You’re using my own words as the source for the stuff you claim I deny!!! I’m pointing to the 80% that Squirrelly Steve got wrong, and you continue to deny reality claiming him to be “100% correct” by pointing to the 20%.

    Well, he’s 100% correct on the 20% of things he was correct about. Does that satisfy you? And do you *really* think that helps your case?

  98. NiV

    I am mildly impressed with your determination to defend your idiocies. Monomania I guess. That is,

    You agree it was a couple of months ago. Four being a couple. You admit a 60 year old feminist was punched and kicked to the ground when a someone assaulted her without cause. Camera stealing being a crime. The police describe one as a man and two being indeterminate gender – that is, Trannies. Or maybe two trannies and a straight friend. You claim that there is a meaningful distinction between going along to listen and to film. Although the latter implies the former so no one else agrees with you.

    So basically, despite your fight against reality, you and Steve’s accounts are pretty much the same.

    “You pick an example of a person of type X carrying out some abhorrent crime, and use that to smear all other people of type X.”

    I do no such thing. But I have pointed out that because neo-Nazis have form we are not surprised by a girl being killed in Charlotte. Trannies also have form so it is also not a surprise.

    “Hitler was a vegetarian, so vegetarians are evil.”

    Well that is undeniable.

    “Virtually everything he said was wrong.”

    Except nothing he said was wrong. You continue to deny the reality of that even though it is plain in every post you make.

  99. Well then, I will leave it to history to judge. I’m satisfied that I’ve made the best attempt I can to explain. There’s clearly no point in any more attempts, and I’m not at all unhappy with the result!


    That was fun! I look forward to the next time Tim brings it up again.

  100. “We will see reparations for these crimes, and the crimes committed against others in our names”

    I’m transgender. I claim my share of those reparations.

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