Britain and France are in danger of drifting apart as a result of Brexit, undermining defence and security cooperation, according to Lord Ricketts, a former UK national security adviser and former ambassador to France.
Shame, eh? I thought this was rather the point.
Britain and France are in danger of drifting apart as a result of France subsuming its national interest in the EU. Pretty much the same.
(+ geology pendantry)
I cannot believe that Europe would willingly cut itself off economically from the UK but if it does it only has itself to blame for the consequences.
(in the spirit of “dense fog shrouds English Channel – Europe cut off”)
The day after the referendum result, my then seven year-old came home and said it had been explained to her at school that Britain had left Europe. Naturally I explained to her that our position relative to Europe was the same as always, but we had voted to leave a European political organisation.
Didn’t much of Scotland originally form part of the N. American tectonic plate? If it’s headed off in search of its roots, shouldn’t this be a move we should all welcome?
The older you get the less you trust titles.
Former UK security advisor? What great advice did he give? Anyone? Did he ever suggest not letting lots of immigrants from medieval countries in? If not, why should we care about his opinions?
This is the France which has a love hate relationship with NATO, the organisation which has been primarily responsible for defence and security in Europe during our lifetimes, yes?
Clarissa, that is not fair. France is fine with NATO. They were opposed to NATO when it involved actually running the risk of fighting with the Soviets. You know, sacrifices, blood, that sort of thing.
As soon as the Berlin Wall came down and it all became safe, they were totally happy to support the gravy train of fine dinners, expensive housing, nice cars and so on that NATO has become for the Top Brass.
The worst food I had within NATO was at the officers’ mess in the French Barracks in Berlin. Post the wall coming down.
The best food I had, which was technically outside NATO, was on a French frigate during the first Gulf War.
Tim often writes that trade is independent from political union, and that even if Brexit results in barriers to exports from the UK (until Europeans realize they still want those products), the UK can help itself by unilaterally removing barriers to imports. Likewise, defense/security cooperation is not necessarily ruined.
Then again, there is that eternal situation about agreeing to no longer have sex but vowing to “still be friends.” (Suddenly it has to be in your own best interest!)
If Britain’s defenses and security can be undermined by a lack of French cooperation, you guys have a serious problem on your hands… One that remaining in the EU won’t solve.
France is a very pleasant place and I rather like the Frenchies; I have a couple of French mates and some relatives by marriage.
However the political/national entity known as France has never done anything other than try to fuck us over, so whatever.
Plus, Lord Ricketts? It never ceases to amaze me how the UK is stuffed to the brim with utter cunts, grown fat on the taxpayer’s tit, telling me what to do.
“Confusion to the French!”
Hacker: Ah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m not that unilateralist! Anyway, the Americans will always protect us from the Russians, won’t they?
Sir Humphrey: Russians? Who’s talking about the Russians?
Hacker: Well, the independent deterrent.
Sir Humphrey: It’s to protect us against the French!
Hacker: The French?! But that’s astounding!
Sir Humphrey: Why?
Hacker: Well they’re our allies, our partners.
Sir Humphrey: Well, they are now, but they’ve been our enemies for the most of the past 900 years. If they’ve got the bomb, we must have the bomb!
Hacker: If it’s for the French, of course, that’s different. Makes a lot of sense.
Sir Humphrey: Yes. Can’t trust the Frogs.
Hacker: You can say that again!
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Yes,_Minister
Quite true that yes minister. i mean when they gave up their nukes, ukraine and russia were pretty close. Russians promised to maintain terretorial integrity. A few years later,, we’ll have that and that thanks Ukraine. Doesn’t take too much of a leap to see EU doing a similar thing to a part of the UK.
If Britain is drifting away then I guess we have a choice – extend the channel tunnel or dynamite it.
BIS
Yes Scotland was originally part of the continent that is now N ‘Merica but broke away and joined onto England which was originally part of the continent that is now Europe.
Hence the different geology of the countries and Scotland sitting as the brains atop England and Wales which looks like the body of a fat geezer squatting down to take a crap.
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/england.htm
A lovely short story about England upping anchor and sailing off to visit the US.
This is the same France that wouldn’t join NATO?
Funny that we share so much more intelligence with the US despite them not being in the EU.
Dear Mr Worstall
Precisely. A bit more continental drift is in order, preferably, that way >>>.
Perhaps his Lordship has a vitamin D deficiency.
A bit more sunshine?
DP
France was always a member of Nato, de Gaulle pulled out of NATO’s military command in 1966, arguing he had to preserve French independence in world affairs. More cynically he didn’t want to put his armed forces under the military command of a US general.
It claimed it was fully committed to the collective defence, Article 5.
This is also why remainers can claim that it is the EU that kept the peace within Europe. The Nato treaty doesn’t commit other members to get involved in disputes between members, so in theory Germany could have invaded France again and we weren’t committed to helping them.
Bloke in North Dorset – “so in theory Germany could have invaded France again and we weren’t committed to helping them.”
These days the German Army is in such poor shape we probably would need to help them.
The French long based their nuclear-capable airplanes in three bases. One in the east of France aimed at the Soviets. Probably. One in the South aimed across the Med in case anyone got any funny ideas. And one in Normandy. Just across from London. No idea what they was doing there.
Surreptitious Evil – “The worst food I had within NATO was at the officers’ mess in the French Barracks in Berlin. Post the wall coming down.”
They probably do that for all the visiting British officers. Either to get back for Trafalgar or to make you feel at home. Perhaps both.
Rumour has it the Franco-German joint Army unit broke up because they could not agree on a menu.
Former ambassador = traitor perhaps?