This is the patriarchy, is it Rhiannon?

When is the right moment to reveal the full horror of the patriarchy to your daughters? According to BBC historian Dan Snow, you don’t. The “grim realities” of gender relations won’t encourage them to follow their dreams, he reasons, and so he fibs. This week, on an episode of the Parent Hood podcast, he said that during a visit to an aviation museum his six-year-old daughter pointed out that all of the photos of Spitfire pilots were of men. Snow told her that women also flew Spitfires in combat in the second world war, which is untrue.

“Having to then explain to her why all the pictures of women are of them in ball gowns or in formal dress looking quite wooden and all the pictures of men are of them rampaging around having a great time, being heroic and climbing mountains, shooting things, being soldiers. That is something I struggle with,” he said. “Now at some stage she’s going to learn that I lied to her and she’s going to find out that women weren’t allowed to do active frontline service so I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.”

Millions of men forced – yes, forced into state slavery to then go die – into the military and active service is patriarchy is it?

49 comments on “This is the patriarchy, is it Rhiannon?

  1. “… rampaging around having a great time …”

    For example, being shot, blown up, or trapped in the cockpit while the engine and then the whole aircraft catches fire. Or what about being beaten by sadistic Japanese guards and worked to death on the Burma Railway?

    A BBC ‘historian’ telling lies? Tell me it ain’t so!

  2. Men rapaging around having a great time. Being shot down by anti-aircraft fire, being burnt and then drowned when their ship is torpedoed, watching their mates die with their guts blown out, those are the “grim realities”, dumb cunt.

  3. As I recall women found themselves in factory workshops, doing heavy manual work, shovelling muck and cleaning boilers in the railway loco’ sheds etc. etc.. The patter of their booted feet on the pavement making their way to work at 6 or 7 a.m. would wake me up.

  4. Ever since I attempted to read one of his awful books, I’ve thought Dan Snow is a cunt, an nothing I have seen since gives me any reason to think revise my opinion.

  5. I am sure a whip round could be raised to get her abducted and sent over to Eastern Syria to see a REAL patriarchy firsthand….

  6. It reminds me of what Hillary claimed once – women were the real victims of war (specifically Yugoslavia I believe) because the men were killed but the women left alive to suffer.

    The insane war by feminists against male pride and especially the military is, literally, insane. We will all pay the price. We are all paying the price.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/the-long-march-of-envy/

  7. @Demetrius
    For the women in my family it was being bombed most nights for 3 1/2 years, a short pause & then the rockets started arriving. Grandmother’s war work was stuffing explosive into artillery shells but the day following her house being blown down she took a day off.
    The relative safety of front line soldiering wasn’t an available option. Due, no doubt, to patriarchy.

  8. He is an overpromoted dumb cunt who has got where he is via family connections.

    She is a dumb cunt.

  9. My grandmother wasn’t woodenly passive when she was working for the French listening service in Paris and rushed to catch the last train out as the Germans were advancing through the suburbs.

  10. Women did of course fly Spitfires, Lancasters and every other type of aircraft as part of the Air Transport Auxiliary and quite a few lost their lives in accidents doing so.

    Dan could have explained this to his daughter and made clear that they weren’t wearing ball gowns when they did so.

    He could have mentioned that women did fly combat missions in the Russian air force in WWII and indeed that there were women only squadrons.

    But that wouldn’t have given him a point to make about beastly patriarchy would it.

  11. Andrew C – “Women did of course fly Spitfires, Lancasters and every other type of aircraft as part of the Air Transport Auxiliary and quite a few lost their lives in accidents doing so.”

    Quite a few? Fifteen to be precise. Admittedly some might have been shot down by the Germans – their planes were unarmed at the start. But then female factory workers probably got run over by buses too.

    1,152 pilots (male) 168 pilots (female)
    174 deaths. 15 women. So about 160 men. 9 percent of the women pilots, 14 percent of the male ones.

    The males do seem somewhat more unlucky.

  12. “men forced – yes, forced into state slavery to then go die – into the military and active service is patriarchy is it?”
    YES
    Patriarchy holds men – especially male heads of households, but, to a lesser degree, all men responsible for the good of the community.
    Where does it say “cursed be the woman who moves her neighbour’s boundary stone” or “Thou shalt not covet the neighbour’s husband”?

  13. So Much For Subtlety said:
    deaths … “9% of the women pilots, 14% of the male ones”

    That’s actually a much smaller gap than I’d have thought, given that the men were going out looking for enemy to shoot or bomb.

  14. bloke in spain – “The relative safety of front line soldiering wasn’t an available option. Due, no doubt, to patriarchy.”

    Britain was an unusual country in WW2 because the civilian casualties were grossly smaller than the military ones. Something that was also true of the US. Some 67,200 civilians died out of a total population of 47,760,000.

    But some 383,700 military personnel died. Depending on who you believe – that is the War Graves Commission and they count non-Indian colonials as well.

    The British government says – Total war dead of 357,116; Navy (50,758); Army (144,079); Air Force (69,606); Women’s Auxiliary Territorial Service (624); Merchant Navy (30,248); British Home Guard (1,206) and Civilians (60,595)

    So more air force personnel died than civilians. I think that crack about the safety of the front lines is grossly misjudged.

  15. Richard – “That’s actually a much smaller gap than I’d have thought, given that the men were going out looking for enemy to shoot or bomb.”

    Umm, they weren’t. These are just the people who fly the planes from the factories to the air fields where they will be used. Most famously across the Atlantic from US factories to British air fields. Originally they did not have any guns at all.

    The logical conclusion is that the men were given the more dangerous jobs.

  16. I look forward to hearing that Dan Snow has castrated himself in shame for being male and therefore the cause of the grim reality of gender relations for females, the overexposed cvnt.

  17. The figure for female deaths is remarkable. Women were used almost entirely to transport planes. Men were sent where ME109s and the like were firing bullets at them.

  18. Yes, SMfS. It was intended as a light-hearted bit of hyperbola. But as I seem to remember Len Deighton pointing out in one of historical books, British civilian casualties (from all causes) were higher than military casualties until quite a long way into WW2. There have also been studies about the length of time combat troops were likely to be actually in combat (defined as being in a position they were endangered of being killed or injured due to enemy action) in various wars. WW2 is actually quite low at about 10 days p/a.(IIRC) Much lower than, say, US combat troops in Vietnam. For Grandmother & my mother it was 365 p/a for much of the war. One of the delights of living in Docklands, those days.

  19. I guess we should have conscripted every feminist and sent them out to fight ISIS. In support of their Kurdish sisters of course.
    Never mind there’ll be other chances. Aren’t we still fighting the Taliban?

  20. Snow is a womi arsehole.

    It seems that suchlike scum have not even a scrap of sense however to be telling his child such leftist shite.

  21. Re. the ATA, offhand I’d expect the majority of casualties to be accidents rather than enemy action; though a few incidents of ATA pilots getting into fights did occur, even one or two female pilots from memory.

    That said, in the absence of evidence I can imagine just one difference being Normandy 1944: delivering new Hawker Typhoons to northwest France where they were doing excellent fighter-bomber work, but taking punitive losses, is the sort of job I can see being reserved for the menfolk (if only for the “…and now make your way back to the UK as best you can” part.)

    The delivery would have been bad – the Tiffy was never blessed with a particularly reliable engine, and Napier’s poor quality control meant a lot of Sabres blew up in their first few hours, exactly at the point where a delivery pilot would be mid-Channel (it didn’t ditch at all kindly into water either, with that huge chin radiator) – and until the breakout, some of the airfields were close enough to the front lines that the Germans could see the dust clouds raised by aircraft operations and lob some speculative artillery at them.

  22. “Having to then explain to her why all the pictures of women are of them in ball gowns or in formal dress looking quite wooden and all the pictures of men are of them rampaging around having a great time, being heroic and climbing mountains, shooting things, being soldiers.”
    Like most families, we have photos from the war. And yes, smartly dressed women rather woodenly smiling at the camera. Men in uniform looking very military in various parts of the world. Which is how people took photos at the time. When a film & developing were relatively expensive. So the subjects posed & you only took the one. There are no photos of the entire family crammed into the Anderson shelter in the back garden, where they slept so many nights.

  23. “I think that crack about the safety of the front lines is grossly misjudged.”

    Read a fascinating book by a chap who was 2i/c of a battalion in the same brigade as my grandfather (whose death in mentioned in the book). The battalion landed just after d-day with 29 officers and ~600 other ranks. By the end of the war, just 11 months later, the battalion had been through – either wounded or killed – 90 officers and ~1200 OR.

    Only 2 of the original 29 officers were still alive by 9 May 1945.

    Bloody patriarchy – always keeping the good jobs for themselves.

  24. @ The Pedant-General
    Yes
    1917 – life expectancy for a 2nd lieutenant was 2 weeks.
    All the men I knew from that generation for whom I had any relevant information had been wounded in action.

  25. “john 77

    @ The Pedant-General
    Yes
    1917 – life expectancy for a 2nd lieutenant was 2 weeks.”

    Oh come on, at 2 weeks he would still be breast feeding and wouldn’t be able to stand up, never mind hold a rifle.

  26. My father flew fighter-reconnaissance Spitfires in Italy – in some respects, it’s true, having a great time.

    On the other hand, during Operation Olive (the assault on the Gothic Line), his squadron turned over the equivalent of a full roster of pilots in a fortnight. His experiences were so much fun (fancy seeing the Po running red, anyone?) that he could only sleep with the landing light on for the rest of his life.

    I cannot even begin to understand why Dan Snow – who doesn’t have the excuse of ignorance – would choose to lie to his child, on this of all subjects. What is wrong with these people?

  27. “rampaging around and having a great time”.

    To be charitable, he might think that all men who served in WW2 were clones of Lt.Gen Adrian Carton de Wiart, who did enjoy war.

    But, no, Dan Snow, like most of his infesting relatives, is a thoroughgoing shit of the first water.

  28. SMfS, apologies, if those percentages (male & female) were just for the Air Transport Auxiliary then I misunderstood your statistics; I thought it was all pilots, including RAF for the men.

  29. These people’s brains are wired up differently, assuming they are wired up at all. Even worse is they are in control of the Media and so can portray themselves as the voice of reason and progress, when in fact most of them are barking mad.

  30. My mother has a different take on it. Possibly as a result of being born during the war to a naval officer serving in the Atlantic. And grand daughter of a gunner who served in the Boer war and on the Western Front (and was the sole survivor when his howitzer blew up)
    She has always said that one of the wonderful things about being born a girl was that she knew she wouldn’t be conscripted to fight in the front lines.

  31. Well at least those Red Fucks certainly did kill women without any qualm. Raped quite a number before killing them as well.

    I don’t think that a womiccumalobus cunt like Snow will be telling his kid about what all his friends (in the death cult he belongs to) got up to–so far. Rampaging fun indeed.

  32. BiS: Indeed about wooden photos. It was quite a surprise when I found a 1900-ish family photo of my great-great-grandparents and their children with her smiling at the camera, him joyfully bouncing the toddler on his knee, the other kids peeping through the furniture. Even 20 years later my great-grandparents wedding photo was yer classic ramrod soldier and wooden wife.

  33. Stats for Bomber Command: over 55,000 deaths from 125,000 aircrew, comparable with the worst statistics from WW1. If you joined in 1939 and stayed on bombers all the way through (almost no-one did), you had a roughly 10% chance of seeing VE Day.

    My dad was on Atlantic convoys as a 15-year-old – that wasn’t much ‘fun’, either.

  34. You see, Sweetie, in those days, the goal was to beat the Hun.

    Now, every favored group needs to get a participation trophy.

    The West is Sofa King Dead.

  35. I should think a lot of ATA deaths were due to non-survivable faults in new-built aircraft. My father was a navigator in WW2, and he and his pilot ferried a new Beaufighter to India. When they got to Gibraltar on the first leg they were told there was a fuel system fault. A Beaufighter had been lost the day before with the fault…

  36. Yes the men had all the fun. Of risking death, of being bombed, of being attacked by other means, of going out looking for the enemy to shoot. Of risking stepping on a mine. Of assaulting machine gun defences across open ground.

    What did the women do for the most part? Stayed home and the only risks were being bombed, robbed etc.

    The war wasn’t pleasant for most people. Read the diaries and journals of some of the few men willing to put their experiences into words. Plenty would not, under any circumstances, speak of what they saw or experienced. It was that sort of ‘great time’,

  37. Aside from the World War Two stuff, I am sure it is not the patriarchy that forces young girls to be named Rhiannon.

    And unless she is Welsh – and that Lucy suggests not – I would guess that means she was born around 1976. The Fleetwood Mac album being released in 1975.

    But then some things are as cruel as being drafted in WW2 and then blown into little bits or burnt to death while falling from 30,000 feet over Dresden.

  38. It could be worse than that, SMfS. She hardly looks 42. She may have been born to parents who were STILL listening to the Fleetwood Mac album 15 years after its release. Hippies!

  39. The Patriarchy which prevented wimmyn having all the fun of being shot, shelled etc during the War is the same one stopping them working on oil rigs, dust carts and other dirty, manual or dangerous jobs today.

    DAMN YOU, PATRIARCHY!!

  40. bloke in spain – “She hardly looks 42. She may have been born to parents who were STILL listening to the Fleetwood Mac album 15 years after its release. Hippies!”

    Actually I think she does. Or worse. She probably looked 42 when she was 24. She has that sort of face.

    But perhaps you are right. Her parents might be like Chelsea Clinton’s parents.

  41. People can name their kids after older family members, ancestors and people they admire.
    If great grandma or grandma was called Rhiannon then why no reuse it?
    If some great friend when you were younger that you admire a lot was called that then why not use the name?

    The name has been around a while. As has the Mabinogion, which had the story of her in a book read by the songwriter for Fleetwood Mac.

    Oh and one of my two older cats is called… Rhiannon. She’s named after my cousin. Nothing to do with Fleetwood Mac or Welsh literary classics.

  42. Perhaps he might also explain to his daughter why when grandpa died recently it was mummy’s younger brother who became the new Duke of Westminster? (In case you wondered why Champagne Socialist Snow was at Harry and Megan’s wedding)

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