My word isn’t this a surprising argument?

The news that despite making up only 9% of overall applicants to the university admissions service Ucas, black students in the UK make up more than half of those flagged for possible fraud, has understandably outraged many. In other words, they were 21 times more likely to have their applications investigated than their white counterparts.

There is legitimate anger being directed towards Ucas from political figures, students, educators and communities across the country over this data, especially given its failure to explain the shocking racial disparity. But I believe we are only touching the surface of a deep-seated issue that has existed within our education system for a very long time – institutional racism.

Really, who could expect such a diagnosis from such a source?

Malia Bouattia is a presenter for British Muslim TV’s #WomenLikeUs and was president of the National Union of Students from 2015-16

30 comments on “My word isn’t this a surprising argument?

  1. I stopped following the links because I was losing the will to live, but nowhere could I find anything on the numbers who were found guilty of fraud by ethnicity. UCAS has limited resources and presumably they are deployed to maximise their availability, if not then they are guilty of racism.

  2. BiND

    “Ucas said about 40% of the applications flagged for concern are cancelled and this was broadly proportionate to the percentages flagged in each ethnic group – suggesting that the verification is “generally robust and fair””
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44311355

    The UCAS system thus catches dodgy applicants with an accuracy of 40% evenly across ethnic groups. We can posit the following hypotheses:

    1) The UCAS system fails to catch more white fraud (which would suggest bias)
    2) The UCAS system is more successful at catching BME fraud (which would suggest bias)
    3) The UCAS system is catching a representative sample of all fraudsters (which would suggest no bias)

    The fact that the same proportion of all ethnic groups applications are cancelled is suggestive of 3), but cannot rule out 1/2.

    Given what we know about corruption and country of origin – it seems probable that Black students may commit more fraud. See for example

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w12312
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304405X12002449

  3. Bouattia is a racist crank, best ignored. I can only imagine the whinging, entitled anti-Semitic ranting that appears on ‘British Muslim TV’…

    It would be interesting to get a more detailed breakdown of the demographics of ‘black’ university fraudsters. I’m guessing children or grandchildren of the Windrush generation and mixed-race Britons are under-represented and that sub-Saharan Africans make up most of the fraudsters.

  4. My friends

    If you are worrying about fraudulency applications I offer a superior screening and vet service which is guaranteed to catch those rascals.

    For just USD100 per application payable by western union to

    Wereallatit@nigeria.com

    Thanking and blessings on you for reading.

  5. Are certain people more likely to try and commit fraud? Probably.
    Do we care about their ethnicity if they are trying to commit fraud? No.

    For some years the media have been on about fraudulent courses / education providers. So do we expect a chunk of people to be investigated for possible fraud? Yes.

    This boy here with his pale complexion was investigated for fraud. Not from anything I did but the address I was living at. Delayed my payment my first semester by a couple of weeks.

  6. Perhaps people from low trust cultures aren’t as trustworthy as people from high trust cultures…

  7. Assuming all applications are examined by the same algorithms, it seems we have an objective test showing blacks ARE a problem.

    ‘addressing the issue when it is already too late’

    So it’s actually legit. But it must be accepted because of past – probably legit – actions.

    Same old “Western Civilization must end, cos reasons.”

    WCMECR, Mr Ecks?

  8. The question is are UCAS made aware of the ethnicity of the applicants before they get flagged?

    It will be amusing if all references to race are removed before tests for potential fraud are made.

  9. I scrolled down to comment and predicably comments weren’t allowed. My immediate question was: how on earth does UCAS know you’re black so they can discriminate against you? There’s a diversity monitoring page in the application form, but it’s covered in assurances that that section is ripped off and hidden away before the assessors see the actual application part.

  10. Jgh,

    This is the interesting thing. What happens if after all possible racial biases are removed on the demand of the race mongers there’s still a disproportionate number of certain minorities that still get flagged up?

    Where do the race mongers go from there if their hypothesis gets totally disproved?

  11. Why are any students at all disclosing their ethnicity on an application to academia? Don’t they know the drill – ‘differences within groups are greater than differences between groups’ * , and thus everyone should be assessed on their merits. If you give the State information they do not need and is not compulsory they will only use it against you.

    *- exception for health/medical where susceptibility to certain diseases is connected to melanin

  12. In other news 30% of Premier League footballers are black, yet they only form 3% of the wider population. End this vile racist selection policy now!!!!!!!!!

  13. Maybe UCAS ran the exercise because they recognised there was a discrepancy and they were attempting to investigate the reason. It could be down to well meaning idiots giving applicants bum advice about what was expected of them – what to say – rather than trusting to the system.

  14. The idea that the UK’s education establishment is racist towards blacks is so utterly ludicrous it defies belief.

  15. It’s clear from the report that the diversity bit is only applied after the fraud detection, they’re worried that it might signal bias elsewhere in the process, but it’s not one of the factors that could be used to detect fraud.

  16. The other fraudulent element overlooked here is that many of the courses being offered are themselves fraudulent.

    Pointless, bloviating socialist cockrot is not education and the bogus promises of income are largely false as well.

    Of course if your womi face fits you could do well.

    That sack of shite Osbourne for example. As one commentator on here observed a few threads past £600 grand a year for a 1 day a week p/t job.—that would make your time at Karl Marx Uni worthwhile.

  17. Ah Bouattia… so obnoxious she drove several university unions to disaffiliate with the NUS.

    Hope I don’t come across her too often in future.

  18. “…On the latest figures from UCAS, Mr Lammy, the former Labour higher education minister, said: “Why are one in every hundred black applicants flagged compared to one in every two thousand white applicants? Ucas needs to be able to explain this huge disproportionality and satisfy students from ethnic minorities that their applications will be looked upon fairly.” …”
    https://goo.gl/nDqhqP

    Simple: criminal convictions

    Sadly UCAS takes lead from Appeaser Theresa: “Students will no longer have to declare criminal convictions on Ucas applications”
    https://goo.gl/Np9E3h

    HuffPo taking the piss? “UCAS Will No Longer Ask Aspiring Students About Their Criminal History”
    https://goo.gl/jt14Rz

    Murdered, stabbed, shot… aspiring rapper, footballer, model, grime, gang-leader, drug-dealer…

  19. …black students in the UK make up more than half of those flagged for possible fraud, has understandably outraged many. In other words, they were 21 times more likely to have their applications investigated than their white counterparts.

    Is it because they are all villains?

  20. “The point is that 0.047% of White applications were flagged for fraud.”

    It’s actually not a point at all. Some people are flagged for fraud.

    When I was a kid and I cried to my mother that the other kids were picking on me, she said they did it because they liked me.

    When blacks were kids and cried to their mother that the other kids were picking on them, the mothers said it was because they are black.

    They never recovered.

  21. @Gamecock

    The fact that Blacks are flagged for fraud at 21 times the rate of whites suggests either that the system is biased and/or that Blacks commit more fraud. As I note above, the likelihood is that they commit more fraud*. Whether the system is also biased is open to further analysis. The point I was making to the good constable is that not “all” of them are villains, just that some (a greater proportion than is found in whites) may be.

    *They tend to come from countries where corruption is higher and this affects their actions.

  22. If foreign students have a higher rate of fraud checking, which seems likely as there isn’t the same access to educational records as for a UK student I wonder what impact that has, what would the rate be for UK students educated only in the UK based on ethnicity.
    The fact that more foreign students are non-white isn’t really something UCAS can do anything about

  23. “The fact that Blacks are flagged for fraud at 21 times the rate of whites suggests either that the system is biased and/or that Blacks commit more fraud.”

    We don’t know that. Perhaps a false dichotomy.

    We know their applications are referred for investigation. Investigation. Apparantly, investigation is onerous. Whiner-in-chief Bouattia seems to think so.

  24. ken – “The fact that Blacks are flagged for fraud at 21 times the rate of whites suggests either that the system is biased and/or that Blacks commit more fraud.”

    That is not fair. There are other options besides Blacks being more criminal or the British university system being racist.

    Blacks could just be less intelligent for instance. So they get caught more often. Not that I believe that, of course.

  25. @Gamecock

    Of those flagged 40% are cancelled (true across all ethnic groups) – thus it’s one or a combo of 1) crooks, 2) racism, 3) stupid and crooked.

    @Bnic

    This is home students only. But most Black students will be either first or second generation and thus fall into the category of those affected by home country corruption per the papers I linked to in my first post above.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.