He’s got a point here

Jeremy Corbyn has said he does not believe it is anti-Semitic to describe the creation of Israel as racist in a move which saw his relationship with the Jewish community plummet to new depths.

The Labour leader called for the party on Tuesday to adopt a personal statement which would have permitted activists to describe “Israel, its policies or the circumstances around its foundation as racist”.

I think that he is anti-semitic. And not particularly through any animus to Jews, but because he’s so deeply invested in the Palestinian (for which read, really, anti-US hegemony) idea. But put that to one side.

Is it right to say that the foundation of Israel was racist? To the extent that you think the Jews were/are a race, mebbe, mebbe not. You could substitute culturalist, tribalist, religionist, you might get closer. There was certainly some distinction made between those who were in group and those who were not.

But whether you’re right and whether you’re allowed to argue the case are rather different things. Of course you can/may argue that case, just as you should be allowed to argue any other.

After all, because something actually was racist – if we assume it was – doesn’t mean that it was therefore a bad idea. Whether it was a bad ‘un or not depends upon whether it was a bad ‘un or not. Who got to rule the Danelaw and why was definitely something decided along racial – or tribal – grounds. Doesn’t mean that Yorkshire’s a bad idea, does it?

40 comments on “He’s got a point here

  1. The debate is irrelevant.

    Grandpa Death is an evil man who should be on the end of a rope .

    Had we a leader instead of the BluLabour CM -penetraited and owned FFC, Jizza’s voter supply would be shut down by ending migration and the retro-active 100-years-to-vote rule.

    And by declaring Momentum a banned terrorist organisation and taking the chance to sweep its vile membership into a world of trouble.

    Before they do the same to the rest of us.

    That and a lot more is needed. With BluLab fucking forget it.

    So bollocks to Jizza’s opinions on any topic.

  2. 2,500,000 Muslims in the UK. At the last election 85% of Muslims who voted, voted Labour, 11% voted Tory

    250,000 Jews in the UK. At the last election 63% voted Tory, 26% voted labour.

    There is a certain degree of animosity shown by Muslim toward Jew (to be fair, there is a degree of animosity shown by Muslim toward everyone-who-isn’t-a-Muslim).

    I can find no figures, but I suspect that there are more Muslim candidates for local and national elections among the Labour ranks than any other party.

    So are we really, really surprised that a bit of Jew-bashing (or at the very least Israel-bashing) is tolerated if not actually encouraged?

    As they say, as far as votes are concerned, you do the maths.

  3. Whether you can or can’t debate that the setting up of Israel is rascist as an abstract debate is one thing. Corbin is a complete antisemite, and it’s not a free speech issue for him. For him it’s full on Jew hate.
    The man is evil.

  4. This is the third rail of politics. You may not criticise Israel under any circumstances, even though the Israeli influence over politics in the US is almost total and it can be argued that much the same applies here. All three of our main political parties have a “[Party-adjective] Friends of Israel” group, uniquely for a foreign country, and organisations such as BICOM invest massive financial and human resources into steering our policies in pro-Israel and anti-Arab directions, and of course dragging us into wars in Middle East countries where we have no strategic interests whatsoever.

    (All that is of course quite apart from the lives of many thousands of British Jews, many of them refugees or the descendants thereof from Nazi Germany, who are perhaps the best integrated, most civilised and most economically welcome of any class of incomers.)

    So no, don’t go there if you want to keep your political neck. I do not believe Corbyn is at heart an anti-semite, though he has been mixing with plenty of people who have just cause to be resentful of Israel. He is naive; he grabbed the third rail without understanding just how many amps it would send through his scrawny body.

    To my mind the IHRA’s demands, and especially the ‘examples’, are of a piece with Jewish attempts to stifle any and all contrary voices. See also ‘Holocaust Denial’, wherein any attempt to question the official narrative, however mild, is, in many European countries, now punishable by imprisonment. That’s a pretty remarkable feat for a lobby that pretends it has no power.

  5. I hold no particular position for or against the Israeli or Palestinian causes.

    Corbyn does and wants a free pass in relation to his views because he’s a kind old socialist. However, he is not prepared to extend the same freedom to people who hold views with which he does not agree and such views are often pigeonholed as far right.

    So fvck him, fvck his supporters and fvck his whole party. The man’s a cvnt.

    String him up and use his scrawny remains to scare birds in a field

  6. Corbin is clearly evil, but he is also stupid and politically naive. He should have piped down and let the motion pass without comment, but just had to get his word in. More fool him.

  7. Tim nicely bisects the problem and its crazy.
    Lord Sachs said “of course jeremy corbyn doesn’t see himself as an anti semite- he’s working to the old definition.”
    This very much seems like it’s language policing and semantics and foisting new definitions onto perjorative words so then the rulebook can be thrown at a whole different class of political opinion.

  8. I dislike Corbyn intensely as an IRA supporting PoS and I hope he never gets anywhere near real power, but I don’t believe he’s an anti-semite.
    The charge of ‘anti-semitism’, like that of ‘racism’ is used as a tool to stifle debate. Both are extremely effective.
    Don’t forget that he was propelled to his position by Momentum, a Jewish founded and funded organisation.

    Here’s an Israeli politician admitting that it’s used as a weapon:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdZbvPnU6QQ

  9. The only conceivable good that could have come from the evident anti-semitism in the Labour Party was that at least they would have rejected the absurd “international definition” of anti-semitism. But now they have delivered the worst of both worlds. Not just evil but bloody stupid too.

  10. ‘Of course you can/may argue that case, just as you should be allowed to argue any other.’

    No. You should not be allowed to argue for the death of people. Which is what Corbyn’s terrorist buddies want. Corbyn’s association with terrorists should be the end of his career. Depending on how far he takes it, it should be the end of his freedom. I think it likely he has earned some prison time.

  11. Never a word of condemnation about the various Islamic republics nor the 16 islamic counties who ban israelis from enterring their country. Corbyn vile terrorist supporting anti semitic pos

  12. Dare I ask if the setting up of Ireland as an independent state was a racist project? People are shouting “racist!” at anti-Irish prejudice, so the Irish must be a race.

  13. I don’t think JC is anti-semitic. Yes he’s friends with terrorist Palestinians, but his hatred is directed at the west, at the British establishment. Ironically, he doesn’t understand that he is a firm part of the establishment.

    He isn’t clever enough to understand second-order effects – if he was, he wouldn’t be a leftie.

  14. OK, I’ll take the bait. Of course, Yorkshire was and is a great idea, despite still being a little bit “Danish”. Yorkshire folk are friendly and self-effacing, even when our cricket team routinely thrash the poor benighted souls from the wet side of the Pennines (only a miserable and jealous Lancastrian would suggest otherwise). As befits a people well aware that they are privileged to be living in God’s own country, we don’t make a fuss about being home to two of England’s best National Parks nor having the greatest concentration of successful Olympic athletes on the planet, e.g., if Yorkshire had been competing as an individual country in the past two games it would have been 12th (London 2012) and 14th (Rio, 2016) in the medal tables. Needless-to-say, the list of famous Yorkshire folk past and present would stretch further than from Bridlington to Saddleworth Moor. I could go on but being an agreeable Tyke I’m not given to bragging.

  15. > I’m not given to bragging

    LOL

    BTW, you should have included Geoff Boycott in your list of county treasures.

  16. Corbyn is stupid enough genuinely Ely not to realise he is a racist anti-semite.

    And his followers – abd by that I mean all Labour supporters – are cultist enough not to realise that they have also branded themselves racist anti-semites. And the next time any of them, e.g. Guardian columnists, shout “racism”, I will be there shouting “hypocrite”.

  17. BiS

    “Where’s Yorkshire?”

    It’s the one that’s opposite Lancashire. They even built a motorway through the hills to it from Manchester so that it wouldn’t be so cut off.

    “Is it in England?”

    Good question.

  18. You may not criticise Israel under any circumstances, even though the Israeli influence over politics in the US is almost total and it can be argued that much the same applies here.

    Thomas Fuller –

    You clearly don’t know a thing about U.S. politics. You certainly don’t know a thing about the state of the Democratic Party in the U.S. And given that the above sentence could have just as early come from Corbyn’s pen, I’d add that at the nicest spin one could put on your statement is that the very least, you’re a fool.

  19. I might have some sympathy for Corbyn if the Left (and, in particular, his Momentum supporters) had shown any sympathy for freedom of speech in recent years.

    As it is, I am enjoying watching him being hoist with his own petard.

  20. The Palestinians lost the second world war. They sided with Hitler (as best they could) and lost. They then lost four wars of aggression against the newly-established state of Israel.

    They have since refused or blown every opportunity to establish the state they should have set up 70 years ago (almost to the day), because they will not accept a Palestine that is not whole and free of Jews.

    As a result territory has been lost. No one (except a few crackpots) wants to re-establish Greater Germany across what is now Poland, so equally tough luck for Greater, Judenrein, Palestine.

    The Muslim world stretches from Morocco to Malaysia. The Ummah can easily absorb the Muslims displaced from the tiny splinter of land in the middle of that vast expanse known as Israel. They won’t do so because they would prefer to have political pawns in the fourth generation than actually assist their brothers and sisters in faith.

    Israel is busy drawing its eastern border where it sees fit. Unilaterally because there is basically no one to talk to about where to put it.

    What is left behind that border will be left to rot or prosper as its inhabitants see fit. Gaza has chosen its path, and in so doing caused its other neighbour to close the border as well. It remains to be seen what is left of the West Bank will do.

    As for Israel being “racist”, that accusation can be discussed as soon as there are as many Jews living in the entire Muslim world as Muslims living in Israel.

  21. Dennis, thanks for the gratuitous insult. You’ve never heard of AIPAC, then, I take it, or indeed the neocons, you know, the people in charge of your country until Donald came along.

    This just in from Philip Giraldi, who is by no means a fool:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-fifth-column-2/

    PS Ron Unz is a Jew, and neither is he also, by any stretch of the imagination, a fool.

  22. Jeremy is misunderstood, all he wants is peace, as he keeps telling us. Once he finds the diaries which detail the meetings he had with Protestants in NI and the Israeli government, among others. you’ll all be eating your words. Maybe the dog ate it, or he dropped it on the bus on his way to the allotment, but he is principled doncha y’know.

  23. Dennis, thanks for the gratuitous insult.

    You earned it. Still are, as a matter of fact.

    And don’t look now, but there’s a Hebrew under your bed. They’re everywhere, you know…

  24. You’ve never heard of AIPAC, then, I take it, or indeed the neocons, you know, the people in charge of your country until Donald came along.

    Ah yes, the old “The Neocons are a Jewish Cabal who not-so-secretly ruled the U.S.” canard. And Barack Obama was a Neocon? That’ll be news to both him and the Iranians.

    Isn’t this about the time you start quoting Der Stürmer for us?

  25. @Bloke in Germany, September 5, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    +1

    Good post. Gaza/Egypt border closed ignored by Politicians, SJWs & MSM – bias by omission.

  26. Dennis the Peasant

    “I’d add that at the nicest spin one could put on your statement is that the very least, you’re a fool”

    That is indeed the nicest spin on Thomas Fuller’s post. Only a fool would not realise it is total shit – please see my previous comment on Jeremy Corbyn – . So I’m going to pay Thomas a complement he hasn’t earned: he is an anti-semitic cunt.

  27. British Jews – celebrities and non-celebrities alike – are suddenly protesting the Labour Party’s rampant anti-semitism. Previously they were quite happy – indeed proud – to support Labour’s policies based on suppressing individual liberty and property rights, yet are shocked now the same violent and oppressive machinery is turned against them.

    You’d think of all people, Jews would understand that socialism is evil. But apparently for many in Britain their vanity exceeds their knowledge of modern history.

  28. Jews don’t go door to door asking people to join their religion.

    Nor do they blow themselves up killing themselves and lots of people who won’t join their religion.

    If they do secretly rule the world, they don’t seem to be exploiting the fact too much.

    So I have no problems with Jews.

  29. That is indeed the nicest spin on Thomas Fuller’s post.

    Yeah, but you know me… I’m compassionate to a fault.

  30. Israel should declare uti possidetis over all the land that the fictional “Palestinians” claim and then give them an ultimatum: you can leave, or you can die; there is no third choice. I have as much sympathy for them as I do for the Aztecs whose human sacrifice was curtailed when the Spaniards turned up and destroyed them.

    And yes, Corbyn is an anti-Semite of the first water.

  31. As is said earlier – the Arabs who lived in what is now Israel supported the Nazis then launched 3 attacks against the state of Israel. They don’t want peace, they don’t want to live alongside Israel. They want them dead, driven into the sea.
    Israel gave back Sinai when Sadat signed a treaty with them. Israel wants peace, the Arabs don’t so f@&k them. If they die attacking Jewish people then let them go to hell.

  32. @ Rob W
    Typo you said “God’s own counytry” instead of “county”.
    But may I point out that your county teams included residents of Middlesbrough after it became part of the County of Cleveland?
    The BBC is holding a poll, following the announcement of Alastair Cook’s retirement on the best English batsman – get everyone you know to respond! Comparing Cook’s scores against, mostly, third class countries with Hutton’s against exclusively first-class countries and ignoring the hole cut into his career by six years of WW2 is stinking disnonesty. (I’m not even a Yorkshireman, I was born a mile or so too far north but I resent it).

  33. Labour are ant-zionist but not anti-semite, load of old bollocks.

    Referring to zionism really doesn’t make sense any more, it’s no longer the 1930’s or 40’s, an Israeli state exists. Hating on Zionists is just hating on Israel to the point of it shouldn’t exist. And of course the poor Palestinians.

    Now don’t get me wrong I don’t think there was ever a reasonable case for the establishment of Israel, or for international support for that – if the Jewish people were so half soaked as to lose their country, well tough tits. As awful as the holocaust was, it still didn’t justify UN support for some form of a Jewish state in the middle east. But that’s history now, Israel exists and the Palestinians and Arab nations need to come to terms with that.

    While there is much injustice towards the Palestinians, while Israel behaves badly in some respects (settlement building, new citizenship laws), the real problem is that the Palestinians have decided to play the victim and seem unable to imagine a realistic settlement.

    So yes, Jezza is an anti-semite, and Zionist is now just a new term for Jew, for hating on Jews.

  34. Referring to zionism really doesn’t make sense any more, it’s no longer the 1930’s or 40’s, an Israeli state exists. Hating on Zionists is just hating on Israel to the point of it shouldn’t exist.”

    Quite.

    Since 1945 tens if not a hundred colonies and territories have formed themselves into independent States, having left empires and/or fought wars of independence. How come out of all those newly formed countries just one gets screamed at for the temerity to want to exist as an entity?

    Its all blatant anti-semitism, nothing else. The terrible thing is that these people have talked themselves into the situation whereby their anti-semitism is in fact a virtue, not a sin. They think they are ‘doing good’ by being anti-Jew. Rather in the way the Nazis were. They were self convinced of their moral superiority over the Jews as well, and look where that got them.

    My father, being an evangelical Christian, has always been very pro Israel, its in the Bible you see, the Jews are God’s chosen people. So his view was you don’t mess with the Jews or you’ll regret it.

    Let’s hope he’s right (I won’t say the same for the rest of his evangelical beliefs….) and the Left’s antisemitism condemns them to suffer the same fate as the Nazis.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.