The law is what the law is

And that’s entirely fine. But there is something, well, something, about this:

A gay sauna has found itself in an equality row after asking a transgender man without a penis to leave their nude bath house.

The, nude bath house describes itself as “sex friendly” so, it’s that sort of gay bath house, not a bath house that happens to cater to a gay clientele. Which is, some might think, where gomadal arrangements become the important distinction. BTW, the place is only licenced for “men”.

The bit that really amuses:

The 26-year-old, whose identity is unknown, attempted to use the sauna with a friend on Monday night before another customer informed staff that “a woman was using the venue”.

With racism etc, it’s how other people feel that defines, not the person doing the doing. Under that definition that’s a woman therefore. Alternatively, if gender is self-defined then why isn’t racism?

38 comments on “The law is what the law is

  1. Oh the stupidity.

    Article headline: Gay sauna criticised after telling transgender man to leave because he was ‘a female’

    The customer was and is female. The Torygraph online seems little different from the Graun these days.

  2. No option to comment on the article, very much like the Graun…

    With regard to your last point Tim, they really aren’t that bothered about consistency and logic. No need to be if you’re winning.

  3. If you kiss the arse of Marxist evil what else can be expected?

    A woman with mental confusion enters their HQ and lo and behold lotsa trouble.

    They should be able to exclude whoever they like so out she goes.

    Two sexes only legally and in reality and no exceptions apart from the 0.00001 % that might be born with two sets of genitals or something.

  4. I took a trans male friend to a gay bathhouse once. Nobody there seemed to care.

    @Ecks: https://doi.org/10.1002/(SICI)1520-6300(200003/04)12:2%3C151::AID-AJHB1%3E3.0.CO;2-F

    The belief that Homo sapiens is absolutely dimorphic with the respect to sex chromosome composition, gonadal structure, hormone levels, and the structure of the internal genital duct systems and external genitalia, derives from the platonic ideal that for each sex there is a single, universally correct developmental pathway and outcome. We surveyed the medical literature from 1955 to the present for studies of the frequency of deviation from the ideal male or female. We conclude that this frequency may be as high as 2% of live births. The frequency of individuals receiving “corrective” genital surgery, however, probably runs between 1 and 2 per 1,000 live births (0.1–0.2%). Am. J. Hum. Biol. 12:151–166, 2000. © 2000 Wiley‐Liss, Inc.

  5. Third most important news story on news.bbc.co.uk at this moment:

    “Couple talk of strains of gender reassignment”

    That’s an international news website. They thought this was third most important thing going on in the entire world at the moment.

    In fact, glance down at the ‘stories’:

    “The black history you might not learn at school”
    “Brown ballet shoes made for the first time”
    “Carole King pens anti-Trump song” (who is she?)

    ‘Trusted’ ‘news’ source!

  6. Matthew L

    A normal human hand can be defined as that part of the human body attached to the end of the forearm, including the wrist, palm, and five digits (fingers)….

    So a normal human hand has 10 digits. However, about 1 in 500 people are born with more than 10. Do we revise the definition of a human hand? (Possibly.) Do we revise the definition of a normal human hand? (Certainly not.) Is this discrimation against those with polydactyly? (No.)

    And if I imagine that I am – ie self-identify as – polydactyl, my demands for surgery to add or remove a digit would not be taken seriously. If I was in distress, I would be offered psychiatric treatment – not surgery.

    So why treat biological sex differently? For each sex there is a normal developmental pathway and outcome. A few unfortunates deviate from that path, and may benefit from corrective surgery.

    Some mentally ill people imagine that they are the opposite ‘gender’ to their biological sex. If they are distressed by their delusion, then they should be offered psychiatric treatment – not surgery.

  7. Mathew L–NiV-lite bollocks.

    Corrective genital surgery = what? Doctors used to circumcise– here in the UK not the US–if they thought a baby’s foreskin was “too tight”. They pestered my Mam to do that to yours truly when I was born. She wouldn’t let them and in those days they couldn’t get away with their arrogance as they do today. I’m glad as their “diagnosis” was utter bullshit.

  8. Member that bit in Cabaret where all the pervs and weirdos are cavorting and capering, right before normal Germans get sick of their shit and start singing “Tomorrow Belongs To Me”?

  9. ‘Alternatively, if gender is self-defined then why isn’t racism?’

    Because it’s all made up. ‘Racism’ is perfectly normal. BOAF.

  10. From the Telegraph piece:
    “Paul Twocock, director of campaigns at the gay rights charity Stonewall, said…”

    Fnar

  11. Lockers – greedy bugger in’t ee?

    The sauna’s lucky heshe didn’t ask them to bake himher a cake. I bet they wouldn’t have done it and then where would they be?

  12. To agree with ecks, at least in a stopped clock sense, I did get corrective genital surgery as a kid – allegedly for a loose foreskin (I thought that was it’s job).

    99% of those 1 in 500 will be for hypospadias, where there is inadequate closure of the urethra within an unquestionably male penis. It is a very common developmental abnormality, and does not indicate that the patient is of ambiguous biological sex.

  13. PJH, you can add Godfrey Elfwick to that list. He suffered from WrongSkin, a condition where you’re born in the wrong race.

    Apparently 1 in 10 suffer from this. He did a survey of 10 people, including himself, and that was the result.

  14. “The 26-year-old, whose identity is unknown…

    if you’re an anonymous amnesiac bearded lady in an all-male gay sex club, does anyone know your gender?

  15. Maybe NIV has given up on his bizzare ‘libertarian’ views where nothing should be compelled by government except demanding we all accept anyone on their own definition on gender lest the gulag awaits.

  16. When the gay ‘community’ start tearing chunks out of the transgender ‘community’ the world becomes more peaceful for the ‘straight community’.

    Good. Seconds away.

  17. “Paul Twocock, director of campaigns at the gay rights charity Stonewall, said…”

    So he’s got two and she’s got none. It’s a cruel world!

  18. Ive heard a few gays complaining about how suddenly the trans movement has sprung up and taken their spotlight.
    the trans newsreader (on ch4 I think) said she didn’t see the point of going to Pride and she didn’t feel she owed the gay rights movement anything because after all ‘She Was A Woma

  19. Ecks

    re your tight foreskin (phimosis). I was in the same position as you, except mine did not correct, which left me to have a circumcision at the age of 18 when I realised it was not normal. I wish my mother had done it when I was a baby. To wake up in agony with the normal morning glory boner when your bellend is all stitched up is something I’d wish only on certain Rotherham residents.

  20. Sorry to hear of your problem BF but I didn’t have the condition and never needed the cut. The medical hack was the one with dickhead trouble.

  21. @theo and donguan – things got a bit boisterous at friday prayers yesterday when NIV suggested that muslims shouldn’t rape white girls. He’s at home drinking camel piss to recover (as suggested by the paedo in chief) Apparently it cures all ailments including beatings.

  22. “So a normal human hand has 10 digits. However, about 1 in 500 people are born with more than 10. Do we revise the definition of a human hand? (Possibly.) “

    You guys would rather insist that humans can only have ten and anyone who says otherwise must be delusional.

    “And if I imagine that I am – ie self-identify as – polydactyl, my demands for surgery to add or remove a digit would not be taken seriously.”

    If someone was born with 12, but insisted they *ought* to have 10, you’d object to their self-identification as 10-fingered, and insist surgery to ‘correct’ their body was medical malpractice. They need psychological counseling to accept their innate 12-fingered identity.

    “Alternatively, if gender is self-defined then why isn’t racism?”

    Gender isn’t self-defined, it’s self-identified.

    “Maybe NIV has given up on his bizzare ‘libertarian’ views where nothing should be compelled by government except demanding we all accept anyone on their own definition on gender lest the gulag awaits.”

    You don’t have to ‘accept’ it, (just as they don’t have to accept yours), you just have no right to stop them doing what anyone else of their gender is allowed to do, except to prevent unconsented harm to others. (And triggering your paranoid fears or causing you offence do not constitute harm.)

    Nobody else has to accept *your* definition of their gender, either.

    Most of the population takes them at their word, and thinks *you’re* the bullying nutter. But you have freedom of belief, no matter how crazy.

  23. “If someone was born with 12, but insisted they *ought* to have 10, you’d object to their self-identification as 10-fingered, and insist surgery to ‘correct’ their body was medical malpractice. They need psychological counseling to accept their innate 12-fingered identity.”

    More of your classic obfuscation and distortion. If x is born with 12 digits instead of 10 and wants to have two removed, then x is not identifying as polydactyl. Rather, x doesn’t want to normalise the abnormal but to be normal.

  24. Gender … is self-identified.

    Most of the population takes them at their word

    If Philip pretends to be Pippa when it suits but otherwise prefers to keep its m&2v, I can reliably inform you that not a single person I have ever spoken to (in meat space, rather than on twat face, and yes, these conversations do increasingly happen) “takes them at their word”. You do the stats..;)

  25. More gender discovery:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6351711/Hemel-Hempstead-transgender-man-60-regrets-gender-reassignment-surgery-11-years-on.html

    Which is to say, mentally ill woman believed she was a man – because she was mentally ill. So she was given massive life changing surgeries, and now that she realises that was a mistake, the fucking experts are now saying she’s mentally ill. And the cunting Daily Mail, which has fallen under the trans cosh, is still calling her “he” – despite her saying in their own fucking article that she is a woman.

    .

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