48 comments on “Fun thought

  1. Why would anyone describe themselves as “virulently” anti-anything? Virulence has a very negative connotation.

  2. O/T But I’m reposting it as I would like to know what people think. It is three posts from a thread below.

    Ist Post–OT–Has anybody out there any thoughts about this “No Deal Plan B” that May’s Cabinet of fools has put forward.

    – UK saves £20 billion from proposed Brexit bill. (Still costs us 20 but if we actaually get out…)
    – Follow EU rules for a few years. (presume that is what the end date is for–if definite)
    – Negotiate with EU as a third party for a free trade deal. (Who cares..once we are out that is the ESpew’s problem)
    – Include a fixed end date.(see above)
    – Allow UK to sign global trade deals( if that is right from the off that is a big plus)

    It sounds too sensible for the FFC.

    Mogg etc has said poss willing so the ERG are likely behind it. The “EU rules for a few years with a definite end” should solve all of the NI tricked-up nonsense. And if we can start trade dealing right away without any kissing of EU arse that is OK.

    Yes I want to tell the EU to go fuck themselves and if I were PM the suffering inflicted on the cunts would go down in the history books. But I’m not PM and we have an army of useless shite in the HoC.

    If this is not more trickery then it may be something behind which the ERG, the so-called Cabinet “Brexiteers” and hopefully even the DUP could unite-given that all our borders stay under their rules until the fixed date. And it better had be fixed proper style. It is a sell out but it SEEMS (please let us all know if you know better) a lot better than the plate full of shite May is trying to serve.

    Moreover it isolates the FFC esp as ZaNu have said they won’t vote with her to keep her in until 2022.

    Free movement of people is still the bugbear but –as vital as that is–getting the fuck out without sabotage is MORE important for now IMO.

    The remainiacs don’t like it and that new DM turd has already tried to spin Mogg’s guarded interest in the idea as how weak the ERG are( from a shitrag now kissing the arse of May’s sellout FCS).

    Any thoughts anybody?

    PJF REPLIES–“The ‘EU rules for a few years with a definite end’ should solve…

    …their problem – which is to get us to accept remaining in the EU long enough to enable them to make it permanent.

    That Mr Ecks is even considering this shows that their chaos theatre is working.

    “…definite end…” – are you taking the piss?

    My Reply to the reply–
    PJF- If we get stuck with May’s deal we are fucked for sure.

    It will likely be beaten as ZaNu wont vote with the cow and the Bliarite “rebellion” will be a damp squib as they won’t have the balls to face the thug-wrath of Momentum after they kept Jizza out until 2022.

    With the ERG and DUP and the fact that even sellouts and remainiacs like snot-junior Johnson can’t stomach her crap I am fairly sure that her shit will be voted down. So then she will start trying to extend Article 50 indefinatly etc. The mad cunt isn’t going to quit if she thinks she still has a chance in Hell.

    No this no deal plan B may be a trap and a pile of shite. They is why I asked what others thought.

    But -1–We are out on 19th March next.
    2–We dodge all the artificial s NI border shit the
    Cow and the EU scum have tricked up. Once we are
    Out, nobody is going back in because of any border
    bullshit. They can settle it or it can be another set of
    Korean peace negotiations 1953– 2018 for all I care
    It won’t matter once we are out.
    3—Same with their bullshit EU trade deal. We can trade
    with them on today’s terms so long as we can deal
    free of their crap with everyone else. I don’t care
    about any EU trade deal
    4—We sign deals with everybody we can. No going back
    after that and our prosperity begins. That is the real
    end of the remainiac scum.
    5– It avoids all the “Terror of No Deal” cockrot that is
    being used as the excuse for treason by Tory trash
    MPs. Nobody really believes that shite including
    their scummy MPs but this plan removes their
    crappy excuses for any betrayal.
    6—Yes we pay the cunts 20 billion. But the Cow is
    planning to pay them twice that to be worse off
    This way we are out.
    7–Yes I know the dangers of a final date to stop
    having their laws. But if we can start signing deals
    from the off they can’t take us back in and no amount
    of trickery can get around that. They can’t have one
    of their gang with a slew of lovely trade deals.

    Now this plan B may be a trap. The fine print is the danger with Tories. But if it is a way forward that isolates the Cow and unites enough of the treacherous Tory crew to sink the FFC and Oily Robbins plans it could be a way out.

    Is it some grand plan of deceit as PJF says? Or are the Cabinet crew just scared that the brainless bitch will land them with a GE giving a choice between Grandpa Death and a Tory plan with treason and betrayal as their main policy point? If the latter then maybe this Plan B might have something. I was hoping that people might have some reasoned input rather than PJF’s kneejerk malarkey.

    We need, PJF, to get out of this mess as best we can. If the Cow wins we lose all. If we can find some way that enough of Theo’s shower can avoid a brazen act of treason and get us out and trading with the world that will do. I don’t care if we remain on Eurotrash trading terms with Europe forever. They are going down and will be ever less important . It is the world we need to trade with.

    Yes I would love to see the shit beaten out of Tory–and ZaNu– traitors and remainiacs and see us leave in fine style, sails unfurled and all cannons firing and kicking the EUs arse as we go. But with the scum that we have that isn’t going to happen. We are fighting to make said scum keep even the spirit of their promises.

    So before you come trying to make me out a fool who swallows Tory tripe–lets hear your grand plan as to how we get what we want. Or don’t you have one and instead prefer whining about how fucked we are?

    I think that if even the Cabinet of Cowards is producing alternative plans they know how fucked up her treasonous shit is and what it will do to the Tories at the next Ballot box time. In that there may be a opportunity for us to get out on terms that enable our prosperity to begin. And if so in ten years even the most of the remainiacs will no longer give a shit about the EU or its fate.

    Any thoughts anyone?

  3. You are no better at long comprehension then Martin.

    Also maybe get your blood sugar checked as that can often be a cause of mental slowness.

    Also the 1-7 were arranged quite neatly before Tim’s site compressed them in several ways not in the original type up.

    But don’t let yourself off the hook.

  4. Ecks

    To summarise, and please correct me if I have it wrong, is this effectively “defer the article 50 period from 2 to 4 years”?

    Ie, we’ve screwed up no deal planning. We carry on, as we are now, paying fees etc, and subject to rules, but will leave in 2021 no matter what. if we do a deal before 2021, great, if not, no deal.

    Is that effectively it? We kick the can down the road for two years. If so, yes, better than leaving now with no deal, but ONLY becaise the dribbling retards have been so utterly useless over the last two years. Are we confident they won’t continue to be the same dribblling cretins over the next two years (and hence they may be tempted to kick the can again)? It’s a very dangerous precedent, this can kicking? Unless I’ve mis-read it, as I say?

    Apols if typos etc, small screen & no spell check/

  5. Of course ( returning to the OP), its one of those irregular verbs:

    I make principled stands

    You show bias

    He is an ideologue.

  6. Ecks,

    May plan: we stay tied to EU rules (with no say on them) for an indefinite period.

    “Plan B”: we stay tied to EU rules (with no say on them) for a yet to be defined period (i.e. indefinitely).

    Yeah, no thanks.

    My grand plan?

    On March 29th next year the UK leaves the EU.

    There is nothing being negotiated inside the EU that can’t be negotiated better outside.

  7. I notice that post in question isn’t by Mike Norman, but by someone named Matt Franko. Who is Matt Franko? Who knows? He certainly hasn’t littered the internet with his achievements.

    As for Mike Norman, well, there is a law that states the more you see a Wall Street economist/trader/executive on TV, the less important said economist/trader/executive actually is at his Wall Street firm. The guys that rake in the cash don’t sit in a green room at Fox for 2 hours on the off chance they’ll get 2 minutes on TV.

  8. What are you guys arguing about? Brexit is never going to happen and you know it.

    On the best day of her life T. May couldn’t take out the garbage without fucking it up. In the case of Brexit, she doesn’t even want to try to take it out.

    As I said a couple of weeks ago, you boobs simply do not know how function without a useless and expensive aristocracy hanging around your necks. Deal with it.

  9. Very true, DtP. An extension of: “Those who can, do.(And make lots of money, doing) Those who can’t, teach”
    A candidate for “Murphy’s Law”, if that wasn’t already taken.

  10. Those who can’t do, teach.
    Those who can’t teach, teach gym.
    Those who can’t teach gym explain teaching gym on TV.

    Mike Norman in a nutshell.

  11. PJF–Plan B does not at first sight seem to be what you say. Reread the piece as your power of comprehension seems to be less than Martin’s.

    1–We leave 19th March and start trade deals worldwide right away.
    2-We pay 20- B but the date for staying under their rules is fixed and doesn’t stop our trade with the rest of the world.
    3- No CU/SM or ECJ with power over us–as I understand it. If that is wrong then it is shite and they can stuff it.

    I asked you for your plan PJF–but you don’t have a clue. Yes I also want us to go no deal and pay the euro-trash fuck all . But if her stinking deal is voted down the FFC will try to start dicking around with extending the Article 50 date to keep us in while she” negotiates” some more treason. I’m not sure of the legal position on Art 50 extension but anyway since when did the EU give a shite about obeying any laws including their own. They will agree and we are still in a world of trouble.

    The Plan B terms–if they are as advertised–might get enough votes together to ensure that even a bunch of traitors get us out 19/3 and see us free to trade and not endlessly tied to EU bullshit.

  12. “doesn’t stop our trade with the rest of the world.”

    Does not stop our making independent trade deals with the rest of the world is what I mean.

  13. PF-No –what you are saying is not the Plan B as I understand it. I could be wrong as to details but it means–if I am right about the terms–we are out 19/3 with no customs union, single market or ECJ rule over us and can start making world trade deals from day one.

    Excluding the terms above we will still have their bullshit rules as now ( so it better not include any of the shit they have coming down the pike) but that ends on a fixed date. Therefore they can go play NI Border word games until they nod off. Once we are actually out and dealing on the world stage their “negotiations” will vanish like ghosts at Cock Crow.

    I still think it sounds too good to be true but I also think that her Cabinet of Cowards have come up with it because they now know she is a fucking kamikaze hag and mental to boot. They don’t want their nice Tory Party cash cow shot in the head at the next GE by Treason May and Oily Robbins.

    Ideally I would love to see the UK pay nothing and leave under WTO Rules after Treason’s increasingly God-Awful deal is voted to Hell (which I think it will be). But it seems to me that what she will do next is try to extend Article 50 which is nearly as bad news as her “deal” in the first place. I hope she can’t manage it and even the Tory’s will have had a bellyful of the evil, crazy cow by then but we can’t rely on that. If this Plan B is as I think, then it might just be a way to get past a lot of turds in our path and get to where we want to go.

  14. Ecksie, I wouldn’t trust the Tories to find their collective arses with both hands and a map. I suspect there’s a trap but, like you, I can’t quite see where.

    The only way of leaving – trap free – is to go no-deal/WTO and tae fuck with all the bleaters.

  15. Don’t forget, assuming that the government do manage to get all of their shit in one sock, they then have to flog the deal to the Bastards in Brussels. As I understand it, if any one of the 27 votes it down we’re back to the drawing board.

    Best not piss about really. Go WTO from the start and take it from there.

  16. Windy–Couldn’t agree with you more.

    But the question is how to put it on them so as to avoid even more treachery from the FFC. If this Plan Bs terms are what I think they are then it might provide a way that gets us a relatively shaft-free Brexit and enables the Tory Party to survive for the short term The only reason that such survival matters is that it will keep Jizza out and UK Venezuela at bay long enough for ZaNu to collapse as well.

  17. “As I understand it, if any one of the 27 votes it down we’re back to the drawing board. ”

    In theory yes Windy. But the EU regards laws as being for the little people not themselves. They know the above as well as us. Will the other countries even be allowed a choice or will it be fixed?

    I hope you are right. If we can get out 19/3 no deal and pay nowt so much the better. But the treacherous cow is still there scheming. If –IF –this Plan B might enable us to win when we otherwise wouldn’t it would be good. But it might be crap also. I just want other folks thoughts.

  18. Windy,

    Not sure about the ability of one EU state to bring this down (as Wallonia did for a while with the Canada deal).

    On:

    https://www.dlapiper.com/en/europe/focus/brexit-legal-impact/what-happens-next/

    I see this:

    Following the consent of the European Parliament, the Council concludes the withdrawal agreement on behalf of the EU by a so-called super-qualified majority vote. Article 238(3)b TFEU defines the super-qualified majority “as at least 72 % of the members of the Council representing the participating Member States, comprising at least 65 % of the population of these States”. This means that effectively 20 out of the 27 Member States have to vote in support of the withdrawal agreement and that the total population of these 20 Member States can be no less than roughly 280 million people.

  19. Ecks

    Interesting and I misunderstood you.

    That’s the key bit, definitively crossing the threshold on the 29th March 2019. We are no longer members at that point, albeit that there is a transitional arrangement with a fixed cut off date. That step on the 29th is a crucial irreversible step, ie rather than a can kick. At a fixed date after that, one of various scenarios must happen with the default being “no deal”.

    Can’t see too much problem with that, it’s going back to what was discussed earlier – always leaving on the 29th with a fixed period to sort issues if they hadn’t been dealt with by March 2019?

    I like that the £39 billion is off the table (except for that allocated to “in current budget” run costs / quasi membership for the two years post) and is otherwise dependant on March 2021, or whatever the date, it’s one of hte few bits of leverage we still have.

    Dennis

    On the best day of her life T. May couldn’t take out the garbage without fucking it up.t.

    I think we all agree. Though, in fairness to the silly bint, it is quite complicated now in the UK, with the myriad of various boxes to put your different coloured crap in…

  20. “- but you don’t have a clue.”

    Well, I know the Brexit date, so there’s at least that.

    Ecks, if you’ve decided to turn into the Richard North of the Tim Worstall blog comments, that’s your problem. If you can’t see this “Plan B” as the plan b to keep us in the EU – again, your problem. Any extension – any – is just a way to get us used to remaining until such time as they find a way to make it official (people’s vote!).

    We have a leave date: 29th March 2019. It doesn’t need extending in any way. We leave, fulfilling our established obligations, and get out from under their cosh. If that doesn’t happen, then Dennis the Peasant is correct and we stay in the EU.

  21. @PJF, November 12, 2018 at 2:54 pm

    My grand plan?

    On March 29th next year the UK leaves the EU.

    There is nothing being negotiated inside the EU that can’t be negotiated better outside.

    +1 No Mr JRM. Leave all EU, everything – No money, free move, customs union, regs, laws…

    Then negotiate.

  22. Looks like JRM is preparing to board a cruise down Styx to Hades

    The Incredible Shrinking Jacob Rees Mogg

    …Given this robust attitude, it is all the more surprising to now read him suggest that we should hand over £20 billion to the EU as a good will offering so “we can be friends”.

    “We should offer Brussels £20 billion to make our departure as amicable as possible. Under it, we would leave on schedule on March 29”

    Why is he suggesting we hand over £20billion to the EU when he has previously said that Zero would be the correct amount? Why has he pirouetted to this new point of financial appeasement? Has the man of conservative steel become a straw man? Are there any real Brexiteers in the Conservative party? Have we all been conned?

    Whut? Pay someone to be your friend? Insanity, they will never be a true friend, only a blackmailer

  23. OT

    Moar Tax dressed up as recycling….
    </blockquote

    Article:

    Sources with knowledge of the new waste strategy, which is due to be published in a few weeks, said it contained plans to significantly increase contributions from retailers and producers from an average of about £70m a year to between £500m and £1bn a year.

    Supermarket etc net profits are 3%-4%; they will have to increase prices to cover this, this will hit the poorest hardest.

    In 2017 local authorities spent £700m on collecting and sorting recycling, compared with £73m from major businesses including leading supermarket chains and retailers, according to the National Audit Office.

    Once a consumer buys the “waste” it’s their waste, not the businesses’ waste. Consumer already pays tax for their waste to be collected

    Any new system must take into account the EU circular economy package, which the British government has signed and which should roll over into UK law after Brexit.

    No. The EU circular economy package is idiotic malthusian retrograde economically damaging nonsense. A main rreason EU GDP growth is so low – spending money on negative value projects/beleifs

    Nestle UK, which sits on the advisory committee on packaging, said it had been an active participant in the discussions around reforms to the current producer responsibility system.

    “We support any changes that will bring about a well-functioning, consistent waste collection and recycling scheme, and particularly one that will help to stimulate a circular economy for packaging within the UK,” it said in a statement.

    Doubt your shareholder/owners do.

    He said he understood the changes would be huge for producers and retailers, but until now taxpayers had paid for 90% of collecting and sorting household waste for recycling, while the businesses who put the packaging on to the market contributed 10% of the cost.

    “We realise that, for producers in the UK, the idea of paying for the full net cost of collections is a big change. We do sympathise but we would argue that they have been getting away with it for too long,” said Marshall

    Err, yes. It’s the householders’ waste, why should someone else pay for it?

    Until now council-taxpayers/householders had paid for 100% of buying, collecting, sorting and consuming what they want, now retailers must pay for it – Welcome to Venezuela and empty shelves.

  24. It shows how screwed up the entire Brexit situation has become that people will settle for this Plan B
    ‘Never Attribute to Malice That Which Is Adequately Explained by Stupidity’ springs to mind rather than some grand plan though

  25. PJF–“Ecks, if you’ve decided to turn into the Richard North of the Tim Worstall blog comments, that’s your problem. If you can’t see this “Plan B” as the plan b to keep us in the EU – again, your problem. Any extension – any – is just a way to get us used to remaining until such time as they find a way to make it official (people’s vote!).

    We have a leave date: 29th March 2019. It doesn’t need extending in any way. We leave, fulfilling our established obligations, and get out from under their cosh. If that doesn’t happen, then Dennis the Peasant is correct and we stay in the EU.”

    Its like talking to a fucking brick wall.

    All of what you say is what should happen. 1000% Agree with you.

    BUT the Fish Faced Cunt and her remainiac crew are on a suicide mission to make sure it don’t turn out that way.

    So don’t keep repeating what SHOULD happen like a fuck-witted parrot.

    WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE TO ENSURE THAT IT DOES HAPPEN?

    She is trying to stop Brexit. But the price is very likely to be no more Tory Party, Ergo not all of her cohorts want to lose their cash cow and nice lifestyles for Jizza’s dole queue.

    So it might be that this Plan B is a way forward that gets us out without all the strings and bullshit. It may not be. It may be an attempted trap. But your sight unseen assertions that it is don’t cut it–unless YOU have some way to make Fish Face do what we told her to do. I don’t think you do have.

    And don’t come it with your “Richard North” cockrot either. I have written legions of letters and emails to try and pressurise fuckhouse Tory MPs. Have you done as much or is blog whining and repetition of pointless platitudes about what should happen your “contribution”. Or abject whinging defeatism more like.

  26. Pcar–Again re-statements of what should happen are useless.

    The JRM £20 bill is him talking about the Plan B option. 20 Bill bad . But better than the FFC plan to pay 40 bill to be worse off. Ideally we should pay nothing. But we have to try and shape mean Tory shit into clay bricks. If we get OUT without any CU/SM or ECJ bullshit strings and can make trade deals right away that will do. It would be a real escape and a real Brexit. It would not be what should happen but IT WOULD DO. It would be a real exit not a worse-than-remain with a Brexit label on it that the Cow is trying for. The one that Tim speaks of in the Contins post. However Tim seems to think that we are all mugs since he is saying absolutely nothing that isn’t 100% obvious. And no one is fooled by Project Fear No Deal Bullshit. It merely serves Tory MPs as a pretext for remain treason. But it won’t serve to save them or their party at the next GE.

    If the Plan B is as I –so far–understand it then Mogg is saying that it is worth 20 bill to avoid May’s sell out and if the ERG and the Cabinet of Cowards can agree a deal –one that effectively bypasses the Bitch–then that is vastly better than her and Oily Robbins betrayal. It would be a Brexit in more than name and might save the Tory Party ( not that I give a shite about that except it would keep Jizza at bay long enough for ZaNu to collapse).

    Does anyone else have any thoughts that aren’t saying the same thing over and over again?

    Steve, Jim, Theo–anybody?

  27. All this talk of trade deals, in or out of the EU. What I don’t understand is *why* we need anybody’s permission to buy somebody’s trade goods. If we want to buy tulips from Kerblaqistan, we just……. buy tulips from Kerblaqistan. Why all this running around in circles insisting that we have to get permission from somebody in order to buy tulips from Kerblaqistan?

  28. Bnic–The Brexit situation has not “become” screwed up. The FFC and her remainiac gang are 100% responsible for screwing it up.

    The question remaining is –are Tory Trash MPs willing to sacrifice themselves to help her betray?

    It might have been stated –up until recently–as ” Are Tory MPs so deluded as to be able to kid themselves that the Chequers shite is a real Brexit”. The answer previously might have been yes. But the Cow has now crawled so far up the EU’s arse that no one with even two brain cells can see her deal as anything other than an absolute betrayal and capitulation. Which is why worry among their ranks is rising. Some of the arseholes are trying to brass it out but they are whistling past the Cemetery and they know it now.

    Hence this Plan B.

    It may be another trap. But it would suggest Mogg is an idiot to swallow it and always has been a sell out under false colours and I don’t believe that. He will never be starring in any action movies but I think he has enough sense to know this Plan B –if it is as advertised–might be away around the Cow and to a reasonable Brexit.

    I might be totally wrong–I admit it. But just keep whinging about how supposedly fucked we are is neither use nor ornament.

  29. jgh–The deals may not be of much value in the sense you correctly say–but they confirm we are out of and done with the EU. Because you can’t be in the EU and make them.

    In that sense they are VERY valuable.

  30. Off topic but over in Spudland my bullshitometer bleeped loudly at spud’s story about his grandfather’s World War experience.

    “Both world wars, professional navy, died due to his war experience in 1946”

    I doubt Murphy would know the truth if it ran up his trouser leg and bit his big fat arse.

  31. Mr Ecks, your posts would be much easier to read if they were done without a rant, without trying to impose your own ideology into the language. And a lot shorter would help.
    This isn’t university and you don’t get marked down by using less than a certain number of words to put your point across.

    I get bored by the 4th line of the ideological rant with its name calling and skewed view.

    Try it without all that and try to make it shorter. Would be both easier to read and you’d come across as perhaps having interesting ideas.

  32. I’ve always said I’d trade money for freedom. I really don’t care how much we have to pay to get out, as long as we’re out, so any arguments about ‘We shouldn’t pay a penny!’ etc don’t cut much ice with me. There’s always ways of making money, freedom is harder to come by.

    I also agree with Mr Ecks, if we leave next March, and there’s a 2 year staying-in the CU/SM period, with a guaranteed backstop of no deal at the end of it, I can live with that.

    My attitude has always been getting out isn’t going to be a ‘One bound and we’re free’ thing. Getting in took years, and so will getting out. The only thing to make sure is every step thats taken is another step closer to properly out, and can’t be reversed. Legally leaving in 2019 is good. That means we would have to re-apply to be got back in, which isn’t going to happen.

    There’s also the fact that the longer we manage to stay out of the EU in some form or other, the more likely the EU is to start some further integration program, which would ensure we can never go back. It would be not so much of us leaving, but them leaving us behind. Rather like missing a ship – you’re standing on the dock not moving but its getting further away……and its probably called the Titanic……

  33. “Its like talking to a fucking brick wall.”

    You’re not talking; you’re shouting and ranting – which is why everything looks like a brick wall to you.

    “WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE TO ENSURE THAT IT DOES HAPPEN?”

    Avoid things that ensure that it doesn’t happen. Avoid extensions. Avoid things that keep us, de facto, in the EU. Avoid things that make “legally leaving” meaningless and unnoticeable so that people get used to remaining. Avoid “Plan Bs”.

    Stick with “Plan A” as voted – leave the European Union.
    Date: 29th March 2019

    That’s not idealism, that’s what we need to do to escape.

  34. “Is it some grand plan of deceit as PJF says?”

    I have not said this.

    “Plan B” isn’t a trap being set, it is a trap being fallen into.

    The choice being presented in this discussion is between May’s chaos and some vague compromise that is meant to save us from May’s chaos. Those aren’t the only options. There is still the default backstop already set – if talks fail we have a hard Brexit on 29/03/19 and leave with no deal.

    That’s the best option now. There’s less than five months to go. No time left to negotiate some fancy good deal for us (they were never offering one, anyway), so stymie every bad deal so that we walk away abruptly.

    We can be out in less than five months. Don’t go wobbly now.

  35. “That means we would have to re-apply to be got back in, which isn’t going to happen.”

    Oh, I think the EU could make reapplying something that could be sidestepped. If we stay in (follow their rules, keep their borders, etc) then we can be said to have not really left in any meaningful sense – especially if we have another referendum that cancels the first. The various EU rules can be very adaptable when it suits them.

  36. PJF–“There is still the default backstop already set – if talks fail we have a hard Brexit on 29/03/19 and leave with no deal.

    That’s the best option now. There’s less than five months to go. No time left to negotiate some fancy good deal for us (they were never offering one, anyway), so stymie every bad deal so that we walk away abruptly.

    We can be out in less than five months. Don’t go wobbly now.”

    I agree with ALL of the above. But HTF are we going to force them to follow the steps you–correctly–outline?

    If Treason May’s foul “deal” is voted down it might be no deal is all the option left to her. But that can’t be counted upon as if there is some secret force of nature that is going to ensure that no deal IS what must happen next. She instead will try to dick around with the Article 50 exit date. Maybe she can’t–legally. But I wouldn’t count on it. What is frustrating is that you keep saying that no deal is best as if saying it guarantees that it must happen and Treason and the gang can’t stop–or at least try to stop– it. Like an article of faith or something.

    I don’t want to pay the fucking EU twenty fucking pence if we can avoid it. But Christ knows what shite the FFC and Oily will try next after the present crap gets voted down. So if Plan B and 20 bill could line enough Tories up against her to get us out on reasonable terms it would be 20 billion well spent.

  37. @Mr Ecks

    JRM Styx cruise surrender concession is stupid. EU will respond with “non, more”.

    EU will not concede, they’re suicidal.

  38. @jgh, November 12, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    All this talk of trade deals, in or out of the EU. What I don’t understand is *why* we need anybody’s permission….

    +1 It’s a red-herring to placate rather than educate the masses. UK/EU has no trade deal with USA//China, yet we trade just fine.

  39. Pcar–That is what they are doing now–and she is complying.

    The EU are desperate for cash. 20 bill in the hand is 20 bill better than fuckall. It is 20 billion less than Treason’s Mays 40 billion but if that 40 is off the table it is better than nowt. Given a choice of zilch and 20 in return for “Let my people go” it is likely they will take what they can get. Ideally the EU should get nothing. But will the Tory gang show that level of bottle? Probably not. But if the gutless Cabinet “Brexiteers” are at the point of coming up with a plan contrary to May’s it is obvious that they are shitting bricks and could be ready to cut a better deal. Remember that we have to deal with the reality of Theo’s cowardly and treacherous Tory rabble because they are what IS.

    If the EU say no to a Plan B deal–which our ( supposed) govt has backed (assuming enough Tories can get behind it) then its full on No Deal and no money. Just to go forward Plan B would have to have lined up enough Tories behind it to sideline May. If the EU reject B then No Deal is all that is left. Just going for B at all would mean that May’s turd has been flushed away.

  40. Pcar–Re Trade Deals –I’ll say it again: The deals may not be of much value in the sense you correctly say–but they confirm we are out of and done with the EU. Because you can’t be in the EU and make them.

    In that sense they are VERY valuable. Because we can’t ever rejoin the EU while we have a bunch of trade deals with nonEU countries.

  41. DtP,

    Those who can’t do, teach.
    Those who can’t teach,…

    …become Professors of Practice in Political Economics at 3rd rate educational establishments.

  42. “I’ve always said I’d trade money for freedom. I really don’t care how much we have to pay to get out, as long as we’re out, so any arguments about ‘We shouldn’t pay a penny!’ etc don’t cut much ice with me. There’s always ways of making money, freedom is harder to come by.

    I also agree with Mr Ecks, if we leave next March, and there’s a 2 year staying-in the CU/SM period, with a guaranteed backstop of no deal at the end of it, I can live with that.”

    I don’t see any benefit to another 2 years of uncertainty, and there will be because remainers will continue to agitate for us to remain. Furthermore, our politicians have proved incapable of preparing for a hard Brexit and using that to negotiate very hard. The same incompetents will be in charge in that 2 year period.

    A no deal exit at the end of March will be disruptive and economically painful for a few months but at the end of it there will be certainty, but is will be a small price for the long term freedom it will bring.

  43. “A no deal exit at the end of March will be disruptive and economically painful for a few months but at the end of it there will be certainty, but is will be a small price for the long term freedom it will bring.”

    BiND–I hope and pray that is how it happens.

    But if the FFC can wreck that –with or without her “deal” –then all I am saying is that Plan B would be a better alternative than letting her win. If we can win without B then so much the better. But if the Tories ARE such cowards that Plan B is the only way a decent Brexit can happen then I’ll take it.

    Which is really all I’m saying.

  44. “I don’t see any benefit to another 2 years of uncertainty, and there will be because remainers will continue to agitate for us to remain. Furthermore, our politicians have proved incapable of preparing for a hard Brexit and using that to negotiate very hard. The same incompetents will be in charge in that 2 year period.”

    The remainers will keep agitating yes, but once we’ve legally left they’re a bit stuck. I’d rather kick the can down the road a bit more at this point so we get past the leave date. Then the boot is on the other foot – we’d be out and the remainers would be trying somehow to force us back in. Its a different dynamic then – all the possible scenarios leave us outside the EU. And as I said, the longer things go on the more likely events are to force the EU into some further integration, thus moving them even further away from us.

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