About that Brexit deal

Nope, I’ve no information about it, no special view either.

So nothing really to say. Other than let’s go, let’s go hard, and sort things out as we bumble along. It being the very thing we Brits are good at, bumbling our way through problems.

103 comments on “About that Brexit deal

  1. My view is that as we’ve received this deal through the efforts of Cameron and May it’s almost certain to be dud.

  2. Thank you for that Tim.

    Two ministers now gone and I believe Starmer has appeared on TV this morning to say ZaNu will not be supporting her sellout. As Starmer is a prime Bliarite remainiac I think we can take that as the truth even in the confused mess that is ZaNu.

    She can’t get her treason through the HoC now and she can’t come up with a better deal–not that the EU would anyway–after saying her Turd was the best that could be done.

  3. Surely there is almost zero chance of this shite getting through parliament?

    I’m surprised she didn’t agree to send seven boys and girls to Crete every year to be eaten by the minotaur too.

  4. 585 pages of our tongue in their anus. Article 132 is a killer – it allows for an extension of the transition period by the ‘Joint Committee’ (no obvious democratic oversight of this) with, at present, no forced end date in the treaty. Article 6 on Page 310 in the NI Protocol ties us into the customs union effectively indefinitely. Reams & reams of EU Directives that we’re still supposed to sign up to – indefinitely as far as I can see.
    I dunno what May thinks she was trying to do here, as it’s probably the worst of all worlds whichever side you are on.

  5. 3 Ministers gone now.

    The rout begins. And as the troops start to run away the danger of death grows ever higher for any who stay to fight. Thus the panic spreads. Gove has really nowhere to go now but the rest have every incentive to take a powder and save themselves.

    Thank you Jesus!!!

  6. Literally praying to God for No Deal, but this predictable mess is all down to a lack of leadership. We need a Trump.

  7. Lord knows I’ve always despised May, but if she cannot get this through, that’s good, no? Is it possible this is what she planned? It sticks in the craw even to think it, but still…

  8. At a guess the Civil Service told May that this was the best deal on offer. Having taken advice from their counterparts in the Commission. And having done no research or thinking of her own she went with their advice. As she has always done, and as Cameron did before her.
    I cannot see this deal getting Parliamentary approval, it might struggle to attract a majority of the Tory party. And I cannot see Parliament repealing the act already passed that takes us out of the EU. Neither can I see the EU finalising a new accession treaty before our section 50 notice expires.
    Hence I believe we will crash out with no deal. Which starting from here is the best available option.
    Of course Ambrose E-P may well be right in his prediction that this will be disastrous for the EU. If so it serves them right for being so greedy.

  9. Pat +1

    “At a guess the Civil Service told May that this was the best deal on offer. Having taken advice from their counterparts in the Commission. And having done no research or thinking of her own she went with their advice. As she has always done, and as Cameron did before her”

  10. It seems that the sage of Ely thinks that the offer meets Starmer’s tests. If May and co. had any cunning they could increase the gap between Starmer and Corbyn, which might be interesting. But she is too focused on her own side and the fragile coalition with the DUP. She must have been taking drugs if she thought she could sell this deal. She ought just to have resigned

  11. I hate the phrase ‘crash out’ if we have no deal. It is not crashing out in any sense of the word, and indeed there are a sizeable few here at least who think that no deal is better than ANY deal, let alone a bad deal.

    The fact that it is the phrase used by nearly all commentators in the media gives it weight and leads the general public to believe that it must be bad.

  12. Remainers remind me of the appeasers before WW2. They maintained that Germany held all the cards, so concessions must be made to Hitler. They maintained the UK was unprepared, weak and could not win…

  13. Literally praying to God for No Deal, but this predictable mess is all down to a lack of leadership. We need a Trump.

    That’s pure, unadulterated, self-serving bullshit.

    If the British could actually grow a politician with a pair of brass ones, they’d shit themselves and run away as fast as they could. That’s how you ended up with the EU in the first place.

    Gee, we have problems. What to do? Roll up our sleeves and get to work? Hell, no! Let’s hook up with a bunch of fuck-ups we’ve been hating on for a millennia or so and create a large, unaccountable, money-sucking aristocracy to solve those problems (so we don’t have to)… ‘Cause we all remember how grand things were with Wilhelm, Nicholas and George doing much the same!

    Well, you got what you wanted, and if today you’re not enjoying it, well, perhaps you should have been more careful as to what you asked for in the first place.

  14. Go shoot up a Church Dennis before some Mexican cuts your balls off. If he can find them.

    You have Trump by good luck and sheer accident mate. Look at your political shite from Paul Fucking Ryan to Pelosi and Feinstein and tell us again how much better your country is. What has Trump managed–thanks to Ryan and the never Trumpers–in his first two years ? Actually a lot but that is due to his determination. But for Ryan and the Lads in the GOP he could have done a shitload more.

    So don’t be coming over all superior here, you bucket of used gun oil.

  15. Interesting thesis discussed forward on the Speccie’s Coffee House Shots podcast – May needs a deal to fail in Parliament before she can go back to the EU. If it does fail they will then be more likely to get them to offer something better. Seems implausible and unlikely, but as this is the EU who knows. (NB in their defence they were reporting it, not proposing it)

    Slightly OT – On this week’s Talking Politics podcast they referred to an Italian poltician who said there was no point in sending a revised budget to Brussels, Jucker would be too drunk to read it.

    At at the risk of being too late, what’s the point of Gove or anyone else being Brexit Secretary? They’re just cheer leaders for for the Downing Street/Cabinet Office establishment who are doing the real negotiations (capitulations if you prefer). That’s why DD and Raab resigned.

  16. Get as cranky with me as you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that who you are lead by is simply a reflection of who you are.

    We have Trump in large part because a lot of us recognized that Obama and the Democrats want to turn the USA into Europe. And a lot us fully understand that RINOs like Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney and John Kasich have no problems with the Obama/Democratic vision. That’s why we went Trump in the first place.

    Instead of getting huffy with me for pointing out the obvious about your present situation, perhaps you should start reflecting on why you don’t have a Trump waiting in the wings. Then again, what that says about you might hurt…

  17. “…the fact that who you are lead by is simply a reflection of who you are.”

    So far, we haven’t had a gay mulatto as our leader…

  18. “May needs a deal to fail in Parliament before she can go back to the EU. If it does fail they will then be more likely to get them to offer something better.”

    Don’t know what they’ve been smoking, but I can’t see it being legal….

  19. There is always a Churchill, Powell, Thatcher, Reagan, Trump waiting in the wings. They are always derided as mad and dangerous by the establishment, and accepted as such by the public- unless the public realise that an emergency is at hand, then and only then do they get a chance to shine.
    BTW I suspect that the American public’s short acquaintance with Obama, plus his delivery of inspiring speeches fooled enough people into believing that he was the needed leader. Hence the number of people who went for Obama then Trump.

  20. BiND/allthe—It is not going to happen.

    All along from David Camoron to Treason May the EU have offered sod all. As in nothing, They should change their fucking name to LLAMEDOS Enterprises Inc.

    May can’t get her turd through. She has said it is her best work and the Empire have said “That’s your lot”. Although I expect them to increase their offer and concessions by a million-fold overnight. A million times nothing still being nothing of course.

    The Fish Faced Cow has nowhere to go. She is supposed to be making a statement to the House at 5pm. If she had two sane brain cells still working she’d resign. She is a mental case so I don’t know what she plans but I think she will have to be dragged out of No 10 in a straightjacket.

  21. It does occur to me that May’s style of negotiation, when combined with the intransigent attitude of the EU will have convinced a proportion of remainers that remaining is not a good option.
    Had she gone in hard she would doubtless have got a less bad deal, but would be blamed for her “uncooperative attitude”. This way she has shown that cooperation doesn’t work. Just as Chamberlain showed that appeasement didn’t work.
    This accidental result will benefit the country though not May.
    Not that she deserves any credit for an entirely accidental result. Chamberlain had good reason to buy time- May did not.

  22. Yep–as I suspected the silly bitch is going ahead with her plans knowing she is doing the right thing for the people of Britain. etc, etc.

    There will have to be a no confidence vote now–she has left them no choice.

  23. The government has systematically underplayed its hand, thus:

    1. The government didn’t begin No Deal preparations immediately in 2016.

    2. The government agreed early-on to pay a divorce bill – when it was under no legal obligation to do so.

    3. The government capitulated to the EU’s sequencing.

    4. The government was reluctant to use the leverage that the UK’s military and intelligence capacities provided, given that the UK provides 40% of the EU’s defence spending.

    5. The government conceded that the Irish border was a problem – when it isn’t – and when the GFA doesn’t even mention the border.

    6. The government didn’t threaten to undermine the EU’s competitiveness by lighter regulation and lower corporate taxes, or threaten to introduce non-tariff barriers to key imports from the EU – e.g. German cars. ‘No tariffs on your cars, Fritz, but they’ll all have to enter the UK at either Falmouth or Hartlepool.’

    7. The negotiations were led by a fanatical remainer and a PM who doesn’t believe in Brexit, and so the UK approached the EU as a supplicant.

    Yet, despite the above, the remainiacs hold that May’s offering is the best available. That is an absolute claim – specifically, that this is the “best” deal available. As a leaver, I make the relative claim that a better deal is or would have been available. That the present deal couldn’t be improved upon is highly implausible, as even minor tweaks would make it better. And if even minor tweaks would make it better, it’s not the best, is it?

  24. I believe she is malicious and mental as well Ken. Anyone with an ounce of decency would have taken her well-deserved lumps and resigned for the nations sake.

    But if she cared about the UK she wouldn’t have come back from Brussels with a turd in her handbag in the first place.

  25. Can someone please explain this Irish border issue to me, because for the life of me I do not get why it is our problem. The way I, in my dull way, see it, we can have whatever border we want on our side and they can have whatever border they want on their side. Like Tom suggested, a while back. Things may have changed since 2002 when I motored across France, briefly through Switzerland, then into Italy – I don’t know if they have – but I was not stopped by border guards once. And Switzerland is not in the EU. I just drove over the mountain passes and that was that. So what is all this stuff about a hard border and a soft border? As far as I can see, the border is as hard or as soft as the manpower (fluffers?) and funds you have to make it hard or soft. And even then, each county can do as it likes on its side of the border. Why are we supposed to care?

    It’s like when the mayor of Calais says the Jungle is our problem as much as it is his. Why is it? I mean, what? He’s got 1,000 criminally-minded tramps on his doorstep and that’s our problem at the remove of a 21 mile-wide moat? Reelly?

  26. Dennis – I hope you wiped your mouth.

    Theo – Yarp. Too many obvious shenanigans for it to be mere incompetence. This was a campaign of deliberate sabotage, conducted with the full knowledge and consent of the Prime Minister over a period of two and a half years, while she repeatedly lied through her teeth to voters.

    The Conservative Party has nothing but outright contempt verging on hatred for actual conservatives in particular and ordinary British people in general.

    They probably won’t be coming back from this. If Gerard Ratner teamed up with Harvey Weinstein to market Africanised killer bees as pets for anaphylaxic children, they’d still have a better brand reputation than The Conservatives.

    I almost pity anyone who’s still naive enough to canvas for the Tories in the next election, which won’t be far off. I don’t think many will bother though.

  27. BTW I suspect that the American public’s short acquaintance with Obama, plus his delivery of inspiring speeches fooled enough people into believing that he was the needed leader. Hence the number of people who went for Obama then Trump.

    “Hope and Change” and “Make America Great Again” are slightly different phrasings of the same impulse.

  28. Discussion & Analysis of:
    14 November Draft Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community

    PDF, 1.37MB, 585 pages

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756374/14_November_Draft_Agreement_on_the_Withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union.pdf

    http://www.bishop-hill.net/unthreaded starts at post:
    Nov 14, 2018 at 8:04 PM | Registered Commenter Pcar
    currently Page 5

    @M Courtney, waded through it and found some real stinkers
    eg Article 4 Point 5

  29. So far, we haven’t had a gay mulatto as our leader…

    Nice mix of racism and homophobia there, Theo.

    Then gain, when you’re lead by a white woman who couldn’t find her ass with two hands and a mirror, while an antisemitic white male communist and terrorist sympathizer waits in the wings, racism and homophobia are about all you have left to make you feel good about yourself.

  30. Dennis does have a point there, I can’t see any towering figure of Trumpian nature stepping forward, we will just get comrade scruffbag and his class war terrorists.

  31. Mr Lud

    I agree completely. The UK and the Irish Republic have had a common travel area and a ‘soft’ border since 1922, though the border became very ‘soft’ after both states joined the EU. If the EU doesn’t like a ‘soft’ border, it can over-rule the Irish and institute a ‘hard’ border. The border is the EU’s problem, not ours.

    Remainers in the snivel service saw the potential of the border pseudo-problem to sabotage brexit; and May dimly and tamely fell into line. As for the Good Friday Agreement, it doesn’t even mention the border!
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement

  32. @Theophrastus, November 15, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    5. The government conceded that the Irish border was a problem – when it isn’t – and when the GFA doesn’t even mention the border.

    Yep. I’ve been pointing that out since EU, MSM & Remoaners started that lie.

    6. The government didn’t threaten to undermine the EU’s competitiveness by lighter regulation and lower corporate taxes

    May’s surrender agreement:

    “LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR OPEN AND FAIR COMPETITION
    Competition must be open and fair. Provisions to ensure this should cover state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environmental standards, climate change and relevant tax matters, building on the level playing field arrangements provided for in the Withdrawal agreement and commensurate with the overall economic relationship.

    ie UK must never compete with EU

  33. @ken, November 15, 2018 at 6:47 pm

    May is worse than Chamberlain.

    Chamberlain “only” said UK didn’t want a war with Germany, he didn’t agree Germany allowed to rule UK

  34. Point taken, Steve. How about ‘a weepy, weak, wet, gay mulatto’?

    In other news, Hillary is said to be pondering another run at the Presidency. Trump must be pissing himself with laughter….

  35. BBC QT 22:45 – Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire

    The panellists are MPs
    Claire “nanny state” Perry – Con green loon remoaner
    Stephen “trougher” Kinnock – Lab remoaner
    Liz Saville Roberts – who? Ah, Pliad remoaner
    President of the Trades Union Council Mark Serwotka – :facepalm
    Daily Telegraph columnist Tim Stanley – this weeks panellist with an IQ >100

    Another balanced, representative panel – Not

    Real shame BBC uninvited Arron Banks, would have been good to hear him rip a hole in Traitor May

  36. I can’t see any towering figure of Trumpian nature stepping forward

    Because Trump is one of those exceedingly rare men of history who happens to be exactly the right person in the right place at the right time. Think Churchill in 1940 or Thatcher in 1979.

    If he hadn’t descended the golden escalator, US politics would probably still be a fight between the Republicans and Democrats over who could kill America with immigration the fastest. (Conservative establishment fave ¡Jeb! literally bragged about speaking Spanish at his campaign launch – Marie Antoinette was better at reading a crowd than US elites were pre-Trump)

    The closest we have to a Trump is Boris (yeah, I know, but you can only piss with the cock you have).

    More importantly though, what does Brexit mean? Boris, I think, gets it. (And pre-Gollum Michael Gove was onto something when he said people were tired of “experts”)

    Why did the British people reject pretty much the entire political establishment, as well as the big business establishment, media establishment, academic establishment, etc. etc. in 2016?

    For lots of reasons, natch. But there’s a common thread tying Brexit, Trump, Five Star, etc. together.

    The Western world is starting to embrace what is sometimes called “populism”, sometimes “nationalism”. Doesn’t really matter what you call it, it’s a repudiation of the increasingly unstable and unsatisfying post-Cold War order of globalisation, massive Third World immigration, political correctness, and drab rules lawyering enforced by an insufferably smug class of metropolitan elitists (and wannabe metropolitan elitists).

    This is a period of realignment, and realignments are messy and often frustrating times of uncertainty.

    Corbyn has a little bit of that populist magic, despite having the personality of a tub of wallpaper paste.

  37. Liam Fox, Secretary of State for International Trade

    Why has he not resigned? May’s surrender agreement makes his job & department irrelevant & powerless

  38. Because Trump is one of those exceedingly rare men of history who happens to be exactly the right person in the right place at the right time. Think Churchill in 1940 or Thatcher in 1979.

    Margaret Thatcher was a man? Who knew?

    Anyway, what you’re failing to grasp is that these exceeding rare men (and women) of history don’t happen in a vacuum. They are a product of the society they live in. As it is with Trump so it is with May/Corbyn.

  39. Apparently, Gove has rejected an offer to be the Brexit Secretary – unless he can re-negotiate the agreement. I think there’s a good chance that he’ll resign in the next 72 hours.

    Fox might jump soon, but I doubt it. Leadsom will hang in there to the bitter end.

  40. Dennis does have a point there, I can’t see any towering figure of Trumpian nature stepping forward, we will just get comrade scruffbag and his class war terrorists.

    Now you’ve gone and spoiled Theo’s day by agreeing with me. Better tell him a good gay joke before he gets even crankier.

  41. Theo–I concede you were right about Leadsom. You said she was shite two years ago and you were right. I was wrong.

    Steve–If the Tories dump the FFC and get a decent real Brexit leader and do a real Brexit they might have a chance at the next GE. I don’t think there will be a snap election cos altho’ the mad bitch would call one in a delusional heartbeat and lose it even quicker ( with treason and betrayal as the main policy plank of their manifesto) the Tory Grandees would rather have a sulphuric acid enema than another election before 2022.

    Despite your liking for Jizza it is quite likely ZaNu will be in serious shit by 2022. They have a supply of young snot and dindus but Brexit gives the potential to stop imports ( May intends to sign the UN criminal import paper on 11/12/–if she is gone by then will it get signed? It might not) and Gen Z are not at all fond of the new orthodoxy of CM bullcakes.

    If we can really get out of the EU the battle then turns to the war against globalism and the dindu importers. UKIP is the likely choice there. Despite being hit from SJW suckers and Yaxleyhate snobs from all sides–NiV being a typical specimen, Batten is the only one with the balls to face the import/takeover capers head on. I think UKIP will go in that direction after a successful Brexit and will still be a force for the future.

  42. DTP–How do you expect to win against the scum of the left when your brain has been poured full of their cant? Racism and homophobia and all the rest of their CM shite. If they are in your head to the extent they control your gob you won’t be winning much longer –Trump or not.

  43. It’s a bad deal. Here’s my take: I was thinking that the deal would be good enough that everyone realised there was no gravy train and push for more leaving. But it’s a deal where politicians will try and get back in. So, no, bad.

    My barometer is that Steve Baker will vote against it. And Steve is a very sensible bloke and not at all reckless. If he thinks it’s a shit deal, it’s a shit deal.

  44. She’s survived today and the EU is doing it’s no renegotiation bit to back her up on this or nothing. She certainly does seem to have gone all in on this and some of the support response (business leadership etc) does seem to be in line with the denied leakednsell Brexit plan from a week or so ago so it seems like they are following some sort of plan.
    Can’t think that the French saying it’s important that U.K. continues to follow EU rules is helping the cause though

  45. Will be interesting to see if labour can unify their MPs on voting against this as they have their share of remainers that would likely be ok with this deal, whether it would balance out Conservative rebels is another matter.
    Free vote may work in her favour in that case, though I think even the anti Corbyn MPs can sense the blood in the water and a chance of a sniff at power will sway them

  46. “The closest we have to a Trump is Boris (yeah, I know, but you can only piss with the cock you have).”

    Absolutely not. Boris is a pro-institution, one nation Conservative. He’s also incompetent. The chances of him draining any swamps are nil.

    At this point, my vote for next leader will probably go to Raab. Instinctively pro-leave, Thatcherite, not afraid to piss off feminists. If there’s a leadership race, the membership are going to favour him over Javid now.

  47. “Will be interesting to see if labour can unify their MPs on voting against this as they have their share of remainers that would likely be ok with this deal, whether it would balance out Conservative rebels is another matter.”

    The Labour remainers will vote against just to kill it.

    There’s already the following Conservatives who will vote against: Raab, McVey, Baker, Trevelyan, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Paterson, Jenkyns, Bone, Sherryl Murray, Anne Marie Morris. Hoey says she’ll vote against it too.

    There’s probably enough votes just in those MPs who have openly announced they’ve put in a letter into the 1922 committee (which I make 6 at this point).

    I think May is toast. I think there’s probably enough letters and I wouldn’t be surprised if Brady announces leadership in the next few days.

  48. “Hence I believe we will crash out with no deal. Which starting from here is the best available option.”

    Starting from here? It was the best option 2 years ago.

    “Dear EU,

    We’re out. Buh bye. Love you! Mean it!”

  49. It’s a great deal – keeps us close enough to get back in when all the bitter, racist pensioners have popped their clogs.

    Oh, and by the way, it will get through Parliament (might take two goes). Enjoy

  50. Fatty,
    It would be nice to think so, however there is a possible flaw in your analysis.

    While pensioners lack knowledge and experience in comparison to the young, and while grandparents and the like are famously indifferent to young people’s futures, those popping their clogs are constantly being replaced by new old people.

  51. Felt the need to pop back in did you Fatfuck?

    Just to reassure yourself with the sound of your own voice echoing around your empty head.

    You lost you piece of Global Elite-sucking marxist shite and you are going to go on losing.

    And as for age the busloads of seniles arriving for your 150,000 strong march the other week suggest that old age is creeping up on your gang of treasonous fucks rather faster than upon us.

  52. The propaganda campaign against the Brexiteer tories is in full swing. See the Mail Online right now (small hours).

    Will it succeed? The party momentum against May wasn’t particularly strong yesterday, so I think there’s a good chance she’ll battle through and present this pile of shite to Parliament.

    We will not get a real Brexit with that woman at the helm.

  53. PJF–Look a bit deeper. The comments at the DM are MASSIVELY pro-Brexit and anti-“deal “with only one or two arrogant remain cunts on plus a nutter who wants to be the FFC’s sex slave. Jesus. He must love cellulite and bad breath.

    The best Comment with the most upticks was a bloke saying that Grieig and remain had taken over the DM and it would soon be begging for handouts like the Guardian.

    The Directors should start getting a bit nervous because their new Editors policy of licking May out is fooling no readers and pleasing none either.

    As for “not a strong” response–9 resignations in one day, the worst PMQ since 1940 some say and a mental speech from the cow is a busy day of “not very much” happening .

  54. May faces an enormous task to win parliamentary approval for her sell-out deal, given that Labour, the SNP, the DUP and 51 Tories have said they will not vote for it.

    I doubt she’ll achieve it. To save face, she might allow a free vote.

    If faced with a vote of confidence in the Tory Party, I think she’ll win it, sadly.

  55. BoM4 – Absolutely not. Boris is a pro-institution, one nation Conservative. He’s also incompetent. The chances of him draining any swamps are nil.

    Yarp.

    I said “closest thing”, including cheapo knockoff brands made in Turkey.

    I like Boris as a colourful character, but trust him about as much as I do travelling gentlemen with thick Irish accents.

    But the facts are, he’s popular, has been tacking populist, and is probably the only figure who could rescue the Conservatives from the position May and the rest of their leadership have put them in, which is opposition for a generation if not oblivion as an electable national party.

    (Javid is a nonentity and Raab is a literal Who’s That?)

    In the absence of the Real Thing, best we can hope for is to align the interests of cynical professional baby-kissers with our interests. (Look at the redemption arc of Senator Lindsay Graham in the states)

    Dennis – Margaret Thatcher was a man? Who knew?

    She had bigger balls than anyone in today’s Conservatives. I miss Maggie every day.

    Anyway, what you’re failing to grasp is that these exceeding rare men (and women) of history don’t happen in a vacuum. They are a product of the society they live in. As it is with Trump so it is with May/Corbyn.

    Sort of. You’re right up to a point, but failing to see:

    1) There’s been a baleful sociological phenomenon in most Western democracies whereby the political elite (and other elites) have become increasingly disconnected from, and increasingly hostile to, the societies they inhabit.

    A couple of generations ago, the average Tory MP was a retired Army officer, local businessman, or posh noblesse oblige type. The average Labour MP was an ex-shop steward or teacher. In other words, people with considerable experience in working for a living and who intuitively understood what constituents want.

    Today’s political class is overwhelmingly underwhelming professional political weirdos who’ve graduated via the student union politics -> lawyer -> bag carrier -> elected official route and have never knowingly done an honest day’s work in their lives.

    2) It’s really no better in the US of States. If Trump hadn’t dragged the GOP by the short and curlies (and they’re still trying to wait him out – why do you think the Wall hasn’t been funded yet?) Hillary Clinton would be your President and Paul Ryan, Jeb! and Mittens would be arguing that you need 50 million more natural conservatives to swarm in from Guatemala and China.

    I’m an optimist and a yuge Trump fan, but America is still in a horrible, shitty demographic position where it’s projected to become a majority-Third World society that elects mad-eyed Mexican communists such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and/or collapses under the weight of its own debts and racial/political balkanization.

    Your triumphalism is premature.

  56. Theo–Even the remarkably smug and arrogant MPs of your –former?–rabble–must by now understand that they are drinking in the old Last Chance Saloon.

    The people don’t want their shite sellout. She can’t get it through, she has said she can do no better, the EU have said she can do no better. Indeed the EU have been utterly NON,NON,NON and GIMME all the way along. So why keep her in? So she can try yet another fantastically popular move like extending Article 50 or a new Vote? Even such a gormless crew as occupy the Tory benches must know that by the time she has finished with them the only time Tories will ever again fill so many seats is at a Grand Assembly of HoC Ghosts?

    Many of these arseholes–as Steve says– are nobodies with no abilities beyond ego and bullshit delivery. They will never again have the kind of lucrative and ego-stroking little job they now have.

    To put her back in and to piss quite openly on the British people–mainly the own followers but also large numbers of northern Labour old-style patriots who would support a Brexit and have had a bellyful of CM takeover–would be deliberate suicide. With ” We die but fuck you Plebs” as their suicide note.

  57. I must confess to sharing DtP sentiments, to an extent. Looking from across the Atlantic, the UK has a population around a fifth of the US. Equivalent to ten states & that would be of the better ones. And is reluctant to assert itself in dealings with a bunch of countries, few have which have the significance of Argentina, if not Bolivia. It is rather pathetic.

    Mr Lud. Re Calais. With my other home just down the road from there, I am fairly aware what’s been going on there. The burghers of that fine city do not have a significant portion of the third-world camping on its doorstep because of the undeniable attraction of moules et frites. They are there because they want to get across the Channel to Kent. And they are aware that, should they succeed in doing so, it’s a home run. The Brits, over there, have no strategy for dealing with illegal arrivals. There’s not even a frontier. The frontier they’ve given to the French as a French problem.

  58. @ Mr Ecks
    November 16, 2018 at 4:43 am

    “The Directors should start getting a bit nervous because their new Editors policy of licking May out is fooling no readers and pleasing none either”

    I wonder if today’s DM front page and “Comment” – slagging off Mogg & co as “Preening Saboteurs” would have been printed when Paul Dacre was at the helm?

    And just a word of thanks for your comments – they always put a smile on my face, and that’s especially welcome on an otherwise particularly miserable day.

  59. I would suggest to the French, they adopt the same policy as a lot of people here advocate the UK employs in N. Ireland. You want a hard border, you build one. It’s not their obligation to maintain one for you. Not their problem. It also might encourage the French to have a think about their other frontiers. Because if you want to see an unwinding of the EU dreamworld in general, unrestricted open borders would be a fine place to start.

  60. BiS – I sympathise with the French.

    The solution is to round up and deport the “migrants” back to Africa or Arabia. Break a few bones if need be, but get them out of Europe, where they have no business being.

    The current crisis is a result of weakness all across Western Europe and the UK.

    Africa will have a population of 4 billion this century. Unless we want a future full of flies and shite, we’re going to have to sink the boats.

  61. Unless we want a future full of flies and shite, we’re going to have to sink the boats

    This.
    But the politicos don’t have the spine. They’re too worried about what the hippies think and the MSM. Also because a lot of people can’t or won’t think that far ahead. They would see it as a monstrous act, instead of the lesser of two evils.

    So we must wait. Wait until the problem becomes so bad that the solution is far more drastic. Give it a few years and someone will be firing up the ovens again and the continent (maybe the whole world) will be awash with blood. If there’s one thing the European (incl GB) do well, it’s wholesale slaughter.

    It could all be avoided if our politicos defended their nations instead of strutting around showing off their right on credentials.

  62. Btw I had a chat with my MP, who I know, and supported Remain, and asked him to commit to a timescale for maximum transition, and he wouldn’t. “As long as it takes”.

    This is what remain will do. We’ll leave but on their timetable which has zero urgency. It’s Brino.

    If May wins a party confidence vote, I’ll be leaving the Conservatives and supportng for ukip.

  63. ‘The solution is to round up and deport the “migrants” back to Africa or Arabia.’

    I disagree. The solution to illegal immigration is to make it illegal.

    The U.S. practices “catch & release” with illegals. Like cops ticketing you for driving without a license, then let you drive off.

    Lock ’em up. Six months for first offense. Two years and a felony and permanent bar for second offense.

    Allow home countries to parole them – for a high price.

    With serious consequences for being here illegally, they’ll find their own way back. No reason for government to provide their transportation.

    “The current crisis is a result of weakness all across Western Europe and the UK.”

    And the U.S.

    Trump says, “We’re going to stop this crap, even if we have to build a wall.” And gets elected on it. Illegal immigration is the product of Washington DC, AGAINST the will of the people. The Federal government fails at it’s PRIME DUTY, it’s raison d’etre.

    Note also that The Wall becomes unnecessary, as it was for over 200 years, if the government just does its damn job.

  64. Solving the immigration problem is incompatible with an open borders Europe. Unless you have a Europe that completely subsumes its constituent nations.
    Here, we’re almost within shouting distance of Morocco. Watching TV, couple weeks ago, they were showing a load of Africans being landed from a Spanish coastal patrol boat at Malaga. Usual bit of media tearjerker pr0n. What they’ve done with the Africans, now, don’t know. Fed them & gave them somewhere to doss, temporarily, I’d imagine. But I can guarantee those Africans won’t be staying here. Spanish won’t want to keep them. They’ll be turned lose. There’s nothing for them here so they’ll head north.
    There’s absolutely no mileage in the Spanish being tough with Med jumpers, for the Spanish. They’d get a load of grief, cost them a lot of money & resources. to solve a problem isn’t going to be their’s. Same’s true of the Italians & the Greeks. The only way you’ll make it their problem is if you shut their borders with the rest of Europe. So what they harvest they have to eat. But now you’ve removed one of the fundamental reasons for having an EU in the first place. Open borders. If you need a passport to cross the street in Armentiers you’ll start wondering what’s the purpose of the whole thing.

  65. Your triumphalism is premature.

    You misunderstand determination for triumphalism. Trump is the beginning of the process, not the end. Given that Britain can’t seem to grasp the necessity of the process at all, I can see why you’d make that mistake.

  66. The solution is to round up and deport the “migrants” back to Africa or Arabia. Break a few bones if need be, but get them out of Europe, where they have no business being.

    Where are the Germans when you need them, eh?

  67. Should have added this to my post at 2:49 pm

    If the EU’s going to abandon nations become all one state to deal with the problem of its external borders it’s going to end up with Belgians being policed by the Spanish. Don’t imagine that’s going to go down well with Belgians.

  68. Where are the Germans when you need them, eh?

    That’s reich.

    Lock ’em up. Six months for first offense. Two years and a felony and permanent bar for second offense.

    How many jails do you think we can afford to build?

    My solution is cheaper and more humane. Immediate deportation, with beatings if they decide to get handsy. It’s how most non-gay countries solve their immigration problems.

  69. ‘How many jails do you think we can afford to build?’

    Not a problem. Illegals are very good at building things. Arran would make a good penal colony.

    BUT THAT’S CONCENTRATION CAMPS !!!

    Not death camps; don’t confuse the two. When the Democrats locked up all the Japanese-Americans, it wasn’t Dacau.

    “My solution is cheaper and more humane.”

    “Humane” has gotten us no fvcking where. The federal governments are shirking their primary duty cos humane.

  70. Anon–You shouldn’t have been asking your Tory slug anything. You should have told him that if he supports a single full stop on May’s chunk of ordure you will be helping to vote his fat arse out into the cold, cold street to try look for whatever work a useless twat might find. Collecting used condoms for rubber recycling or something.

    I urge you strongly to email in him in similar terms to the above and let him know the consequences to his support for treason.

    If they think you are weak they will piss on you and walk away laughing. Remember the over-stuffed Suit of Shite is fucking up your future and that of your kids and Grandkids should you lucky enough to have any. Do you really want to be overly polite to such a turd?

    Stop short of course of violent threats. That would be stupid at this point. But leave him/her in no doubt that you and many others will ride down vengeance upon him–metaphorically speaking of course–if he sides with the FFC. Or fails to vote her out.

    Everything they get tells them that they aren’t going to win. Keep hitting the swine.

  71. I’m delighted to note that less than two weeks after Macron floated the idea of a European defense force, and less than a week after Merkle backed it, the Poles have publicly announced they’re ready to have the USA establish a permanent military base in Poland.

    You may now resume fussing about why you have a PM who lacks both the nerve and the brains to get you out of the EU.

    The muffled laughter you hear in the background? That will be me.

  72. My solution is cheaper and more humane. Immediate deportation, with beatings if they decide to get handsy. It’s how most non-gay countries solve their immigration problems.

    How do non-gay countries leave the EU? Asking for a friend.

  73. @Steve, November 15, 2018 at 8:53 pm & November 16, 2018 at 10:53 am

    +1

    imho Boris would be a great MP. JRM as chancellor. Farage foreign sec

  74. Africa will have a population of 4 billion this century. Unless we want a future full of flies and shite, we’re going to have to sink the boats.

    Print off in large type. Post in every window.

  75. “How do non-gay countries leave the EU? Asking for a friend.”

    You should perhaps ask Obummer for advice, DtP. When Michelle has stopped shafting him with her strap-on, that is.

    If leaders tell us anything about a country, it’s in the trend. Trump may be a blip, or not; but the trend in the US isn’t
    much better than in the UK…

  76. Can’t help noticing that you didn’t answer my question, Theo.

    As an aside, your sexual fixation on B. Obama is disturbing. You need to cut back on the gay porn.

  77. Dennis – How do non-gay countries leave the EU?

    Dunno, nobody’s ever done it before, innit?

    Pat said:

    BTW I suspect that the American public’s short acquaintance with Obama, plus his delivery of inspiring speeches fooled enough people into believing that he was the needed leader. Hence the number of people who went for Obama then Trump.

    This is true I reckon.

    Hope. Change

    One of the many disappointing things about Jesus Hussein Obama was how, when you look beyond the fawning press coverage, he was basically a palette swapped George W. Bush.

    No mere man could’ve lived up to the hype the Yank media breathlessly created for Barry on account of him being a half-black lefty, but it’s like he didn’t even try.

    His signature policy on healthcare just made things worse by all accounts. After Dubya’s reckless and unpopular bailouts, Obama spunked even more cash up the wall on “stimulus” (an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is).

    As a senator he pretended to be antiwar, as president he kept up the occupations, bombings and drone strikes, and unwisely supported the destruction of Libya (to be fair, John McCain would’ve been worse).

    He was Theresa May with a touch of charisma, a prissy but slightly thick maitre d’ to the deep state and Wall Street.

  78. PJF–I was on the DM comments last night upticking the forces of Brexit light. They were way ahead of a few sneering remain cunts. But the second topic with yuuge numbers of posts was what a remainiac shitrag the DM has become. I understand the DM has had folk all day removing absolutely tons of such comments.. Very soon the comments there will be as in the Guardian.

    As I said the Directors should be very, very worried because that snivelling little EU shite Grieg is pissing off the DM ‘s core paying customers at a rate of knots.

  79. Fucking hellski, I’d rather we stayed in the EU than put up with this insult. From the Speccie:

    The top 40 horrors:

    From the offset, we should note that this is an EU text, not a UK or international text. This has one source. The Brexit agreement is written in Brussels.

    May says her deal means the UK leaves the EU next March. The Withdrawal Agreement makes a mockery of this. “All references to Member States and competent authorities of Member States…shall be read as including the United Kingdom.” (Art 6). Not quite what most people understand by Brexit. It goes on to spell out that the UK will be in the EU but without any MEPs, a commissioner or ECJ judges. We are effectively a Member State, but we are excused – or, more accurately, excluded – from attending summits. (Article 7)

    he European Court of Justice is decreed to be our highest court (Art. 86) both citizens and resident companies can use it.

    The UK will remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ until eight years after the end of the transition period. (Article 158).

    The UK will still be bound by any future changes to EU law in which it will have no say, not to mention having to comply with current law. (Article 6(2))

    Any disputes under the Agreement will be decided by EU law only – perhaps the most dangerous provision of all. (Article 168) Arbitration will be governed by the existing procedural rules of the EU law – this is not arbitration as we would commonly understand it (i.e. between two independent parties). (Article 174)

    “UNDERLINING that this Agreement is founded on an overall balance of benefits, rights and obligations for the Union and the United Kingdom” No, it should be based upon the binding legal obligations upon the EU contained within Article 50. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

    The tampon tax clause: We obey EU laws on VAT, with no chance of losing the tampon tax even if we agree a better deal in December 2020 because we hereby agree to obey other EU VAT rules for **five years** after the transition period. Current EU rules prohibit 0-rated VAT on products (like tampons) that did not have such exemptions before the country joined the EU.

    Problems with the EU’s definitions: 3.1. “Union law” is too widely defined. “United Kingdom national” – we should not have agreed the Lisbon Treaty definition. That is giving away our right to define our citizens. Definitions needed to include the term “goods” and the term “services” we are promised the deal will mean ONLY EU law in relation to ‘goods’ will apply. This is a non-defined term so far. This agreement also fails to define it.

    The Mandelson Pension Clause: The UK must promise never to tax former EU officials based here – such as Peter Mandelson or Neil Kinnock – on their pensions, or tax any current ones on their salaries. The EU and its employees are immune to our tax laws. (Article 104)

    The UK agrees not to prosecute EU employees who are or who might be deemed in future, criminals (Art.101)

    The pre-existing rights of EU citizens are to be extended to citizens of Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. They will be pleased. (Article 33)

    The EU’s stupidest law ever – the General Data Protection Regulation – is to be bound into UK law (Article 71 to 73). So much for escaping this madness.

    The UK is obliged to establish a ‘Joint Committee’ with EU representatives to guarantee ‘the implementation and application of this Agreement’. This does not sound like a withdrawal agreement – why does it need to be subject to continued monitoring? (Article 164). The Joint Committee will have subcommittees with jurisdiction over: (a) citizens’ rights; (b) “other separation provisions”; (c) Ireland/Northern Ireland; (d) Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus; (e) Gibraltar; and (f) financial provisions. (Article 165)

    The agreement will last as long as the country’s youngest baby lives. “the persons covered by this Part shall enjoy the rights provided for in the relevant Titles of this Part for their lifetime”. (Article 39).

    The UK is shut out of all EU networks and databases for security – yet no such provision exists to shut the EU out of ours. (Article 8)

    The UK will tied to EU foreign policy, “bound by the obligations stemming from the international agreements concluded by the Union” but unable to influence such decisions. (Article 124)

    All EU citizens must be given permanent right of residence after five years – but what counts as residence? This will be decided by the EU, rather than UK rules. (Articles 15-16)

    Britain is granted the power to send a civil servant to Brussels to watch them pass stupid laws which will hurt our economy. (Article 34)

    The UK agrees to spend taxpayers’ money telling everyone how wonderful the agreement is. (Article 37)

    Art 40 defines Goods. It seems to includes Services and Agriculture. We may come to discover that actually ‘goods’ means everything.

    Articles 40-49 practically mandate the UK’s ongoing membership of the Customs Union in all but name.

    The UK will be charged to receive the data/information we need in order to comply with EU law. (Article 50)

    The EU will continue to set rules for UK intellectual property law (Article 54 to 61)

    The UK will effectively be bound by a non-disclosure agreement swearing us to secrecy regarding any EU developments we have paid to be part. This is not mutual. The EU is not bound by such measures. (Article 74)

    The UK is bound by EU rules on procurement rules – which effectively forbids us from seeking better deals elsewhere. (Articles 75 to 78)

    We give up all rights to any data the EU made with our money (Art. 103)

    The EU decide capital projects (too broadly defined) the UK is liable for (why on earth can’t they say now … oh yes, I remember, they’re bust) (Art. 144)

    The UK is bound by EU state aid laws until future agreement – even in the event of an agreement, this must wait four years to be valid. (Article 93)

    Similar advantages and immunities are extended to all former MEPs and to former EU official more generally. (Articles 106-116)

    The UK is forbidden from revealing anything the EU told us or tells us about the finer points of deal and its operation. (Article 105).

    Any powers the UK parliament might have had to mitigate EU law are officially removed. (Article 128)

    The UK shall be liable for any “outstanding commitments” after 2022 (Article 142(2) expressly mentions pensions, which gives you an idea as to who probably negotiated this). The amount owed will be calculated by the EU. (Articles 140-142)

    The UK will be liable for future EU lending. As anyone familiar with the EU’s financials knows, this is not good. (Article143)

    The UK will remain liable for capital projects approved by the European Investment Bank. (Article 150).

    The UK will remain a ‘party’ (i.e. cough up money) for the European Development Fund. (Articles 152-154)

    And the EU continues to calculate how much money the UK should pay it. So thank goodness Brussels does not have any accountancy issues.

    The UK will remain bound (i.e coughing up money) to the European Union Emergency Trust Fund – which deals with irregular migration (i.e. refugees) and displaced persons heading to Europe. (Article 155)

    The agreement will be policed by ‘the Authority’ – a new UK-based body with ‘powers equivalent to those of the European Commission’. (Article 159)

    And, of course, the UK will agree to pay £40bn to receive all of these ‘privileges’. (Article 138)

  80. BiND

    I saw that. I’ve been forwarding the Speccy link on to people. The summary narrative before that list (in the link) helps too.

  81. BiND – Fucking hellski, I’d rather we stayed in the EU than put up with this insult.

    That’s what they’re banking on.

  82. My American friend’s comment on that speccie article:

    I mean, if you’re going to fuck me, at least take me out to dinner first

  83. It’s so bad that I wonder if it’s some sort of bait and switch deal, when they replace it with the real deal everyone will just be grateful it’s not what’s on the table now and just wave it through

  84. @Bloke in North Dorset, November 17, 2018 at 11:00 am

    Thanks for link

    The more I read, the angrier and sadder I become. Truly horrendous

    Traitor May has internationally humiliated the UK with her surrender – I’ve seen several USA news saying “UK Humiliated”

  85. The big thing is the 20XX stuff. Transition is going to be indefinite and kicked along at the pace that a bunch of remainers want it to go on for.

    If that date is after 2022, I’m simply going to vote Labour just to fuck over my remain-voting Conservative MP. That’s a net 2 votes and he only has a majority of 2000.

    The Conservatives are basically unfit for purpose. Apologies to Ecks – he was right. The last possible hope is that rebellion leads to Raab, Baker or JRM becoming leader and they start the move in the right direction. They start winding down government spending, destroying large amounts of the useless public sector, converting almost everyone into someone who wants to pay less tax. You go after the socialist propaganda machines of state education, BBC and C4.

    This will not happen. Instead, the Conservatives will do even more of this pointless shite, in some ludicrous hope that they can get public sector types to vote for them despite the reality which is that Labour will always promise more spending and get their votes. Everyone becomes more and more socialist, eventually leading to a win for Corbyn or McDonnell. At which point, we will descend into totalitarianism. The Conservatives will mostly collaborate with Corbyn. A few will oppose and end up in gulags and a few smart heroic ones will lead a new army and country to greatness.

  86. ZAC’S STAB IN THE BACK

    Lemming letter club

    desperate sharks

    The plotters

    momentum has faltered

    .

    The Daily Wail is becoming quite funny.

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