Slightly odd

The UK’s strength in science is because of the EU – not in spite of it

The UK was strong at science before 1992, when the EU came into existence. It was strong at science before 1973, when we joined the EEC.

So, err, how?

That the current institutional arrangements are entwined just means adaptation to current circumstances, not cause and effect. You know, that scientific method of analysis?

18 comments on “Slightly odd

  1. Either way, I would have thought that due to the WEIRD thing, we ought to be increasing research cooperation with institutions elsewhere, not locking ourselves into that phenomenon.

    But what do I know.

  2. Much of current science research is funded by government, EU and big business, so that disinterested research, publication of null results and attempts at falsification of useful hypotheses are the “science” du journal. Given the structure of academe, the inspired maverick boldly going in an unapproved direction is rapidly anathematised and their career abruptly ended. We’re well into the new intellectual dark ages.

  3. Essex is ranked […] 29th in the UK in The Times and Sunday Times Good University Guide 2019

    Twenty eight universities is more than enough.

  4. Look at any ranking of world universities – the UK will have half a dozen in the top 50, the rEU none (ETH Zurich usually comes out rather well, but that’s a specialist place like MIT or ICL (and not in the EU either)).

  5. The UK collects more than the population weighted share or the GDP weighted share of EU academic funding because the UK universities are far better on average than their European counterparts. The weird thing about this is that even after adjusting for this extra academic income, the UK is a massive net contributor to the EU, so in theory the UK can maintain funding of useful academic grants – although I think we can all identify grants that the EU makes that make no sense (A certain Mr Potato at City U comes to mind).

  6. The word University seems to be getting a radical makeover at the hands of education bureaucrats.

    They’re presently trying to re-cast Trowbridge Technical College – long a source of training provision for hairdressers and typists as “Wessex University”.

    I’ve had jousts with Remainer academics on Twitter citing the points made by Tim + other things like how CERN works – there’s a slight pause and then they continue chanting.

    futile

  7. Essex is ranked […] 29th in the UK in The Times and Sunday Times Good University Guide 2019

    That doesn’t say much about the others below.

  8. And that, TomO, is how to counter the arguments you’re encountering. Find it works a treat.
    Firstly dismiss it as all part of how “the world will end tomorrow without the EU” propaganda. Then request, if they really must go on, the detailed reasons why it will end in this particular case. Puts them on the defensive & needing to prove their case. Slows them up enormously if it doesn’t stop them dead.
    Because that’s what’s been missing from the Remain argument, all along. Why they lost the referendum. Some concrete reasons the UK should stay in.

  9. Agree that the best way to counter the wailing is to say that it is simply the EU recycling our money so that if their little Jonny’s efforts to monitor the effects of global warming by taking long trips alternatively to the arctic and the Maldives are really worthwhile, then I am sure that the UK taxpayer would be willing to keep funding them directly rather than indirectly. Tends to shut them up for a while at least. On a wider scale so many pro EU middle class chaterati are actually pro the EU grants they benefit from and have spent decades lobbying the Eurocrats who hold the purse strings. The thought of actually having to make the budgetary case for their boondoggles completely terrifies them.

  10. Tim – some sound advice for JC from the Man himself

    ‘In that case he should say he is committed to a second EU referendum in the UK. And he should commit Labour to fighting that referendum campaign on the basis that it wants to stay in the EU – to provide the UK with the stability that it so obviously needs – but on the basis that he will fight tooth and nail for reform of the EU, because that is what his principles demand.’

    Thus effectively condemning his party to a resounding electoral defeat by betraying Brexit voters in the North?

    ‘That strategy did of course talk about some renationalisation – which pays for itself and takes rent seeking and not competition out of markets that have failed because they have become controlled by oligopolists acting against the interests of consumers – which is the exact opposite of what the EU should stand for.’

    Apparently the economy of Zimbabwe provides a road map for post Brexit Britain?

    ‘In summary, his argument should be that we face local, national, European and international crises on climate change, meeting people’s needs locally and building sustainable economies. These issues can only be managed and coordinated at international level – because that is where the impact of climate on our combined futures that should be the focus of every politician’s concern is bound to be. But it also requires local management of action to deliver the appropriate solutions. That then requires a fundamental change in EU thinking so that it becomes the enabler of state-supported change that markets cannot supply but which are essential for our survival and which as a result requires a change in the rules that I have noted.’

    We need shovel -ready projects I tell you!

    ‘And, Corbyn should add, the multiplier effect of such change is, in any case, likely to make it self-funding over time, whilst the stimulus and political momentum it would supply should create the basis for new, sustainable, employment and the development of long-term skills in communities raving for them – and in the process build the international solidarity on common objectives that the EU should supply if it is to have political relevance for all the people in all members states, and so justify its existence as an entity that can create wellbeing over, above and beyond what any state can achieve by itself.’

    Those crazy raving Europhiles – Dontcha just love them!

    And modestly:

    ‘This, I suggest is what Corbyn should say.

    I can live in hope.’

    A frisson of menace in the penultimate sentence…..

  11. Amazing Guardian crapola – anyone would think that prior to 1973 the uk had never discovered or invented anything. Of course Radar was invented because of Germany’s previous attempt to unite Europe under one leadership.
    Secondly those damn Israelis keep on discovering and inventing things without any eu funds – how can that be? I must write to the Israeli government and tell them to stop inventing things .
    Thirdly when the EU sponsors the potato – does that count as investment in science. I would love to see his proposal for funding from the Eu – probably on an A5 sheet of paper – Print money! MOAR TAX! Country by Country reporting would cover 95% of it.

  12. How Juncker being drunk in Brussels by 10AM Monday through Friday helps British science remains a bit of a mystery.

  13. The Gruasnder reporting facts is always a bit dodgy, but the Graunst on science is a real no-hoper.

    And talking of science, Dennis, EU scientists have conclusively proved that sciatica does make your breath smell of ketones, slurs your speech and sends you looney, so please stop repeating these scurrilous lies that Herr Junker is a fucking moronic piss-fart before you get into trouble with the thought police of the EU Army.

  14. moqifen

    The justification for grant funding of Murphy is the extreme multiplier that applies to his unique and valuable works, so that any money expended on him comes back to the economy several times over. Mainly in the model trains part of the economy mind you.

  15. And talking of science, Dennis, EU scientists have conclusively proved that sciatica does make your breath smell of ketones, slurs your speech and sends you looney, so please stop repeating these scurrilous lies that Herr Junker is a fucking moronic piss-fart before you get into trouble with the thought police of the EU Army.

    There is nothing that terrifies me more than the thought of five effeminate Europeans trying to scratch my eyes out.

  16. UK has always been stronger than rest of Europe in science and technology due to our law and culture.

    EU has changed UK for the worse.

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