Interesting numbers

These examples are telling because they point to the importance of different social norms in mediating gendered preferences and behavior. They also introduce another piece in our puzzle: all the culturally recognized incidences of pre-modern transgender individuals mentioned above involve natal males who transition to female. In the DSM-5, prevalence rates of gender dysphoria are estimated at 0.005 percent to 0.014 percent of the population for natal males, and 0.002 percent to 0.003 percent for natal females. The higher prevalence of males exhibiting the condition is likely related to a higher percentage of male homosexuals worldwide (3 to 4 percent) as compared to lesbians (1 to 2 percent). While these rates are the subject of debate, the higher ratio of male homosexuals as compared to women is a consistent finding across surveys.

There’s a lot of noise about 0.05% of he population isn’t there?

35 comments on “Interesting numbers

  1. Steve’s new theory of weird sex: there’s no such thing as alternative sexualities, only paraphila.

    The higher prevalence of males exhibiting the condition is likely related to a higher percentage of male homosexuals worldwide (3 to 4 percent) as compared to lesbians (1 to 2 percent).

    We know that the male brain is far more prone to fetishistic tendencies, so this fits.

    What if the ancient world was right, and there’s no such thing as “gay”? Sodomy has been about forever, but it’s only recently become the basis of an identity.

  2. 0.005% not 0.05% Tim.

    Yes, orders of magnitude more noise than is sensible, multiple orders of magnitude if you ask me.

  3. Do the writers of articles on topics like this go out of their way to make them deliberately difficult to read?

    I couldn’t be arsed to go further than the first sentence frankly so I’ve no idea what points the article seeks to make

  4. O’Brien held up his left hand, its back towards Winston, with the thumb hidden and the four fingers extended.
    “How many genders are there, Winston?”
    “Four.”
    “And if the party says that it is not four but five – then how many?”

    Orwell’s 1984, updated for the current year.

  5. We know that the male brain is far more prone to fetishistic tendencies, so this fits.

    It’s balls. For every man that has a very high sex drive, there will be a woman to match (or outdo in some cases).

  6. ‘The higher prevalence of males exhibiting the condition is likely related to a higher percentage of male homosexuals…’

    An interesting unfounded assumption.

    Is transgender anything to do with homosexuality? Are then all male to female transgender homosexuals or just some, in which case there is no correlation?

    A male homosexual transiting to a female is no longer homosexual by any definition, not emotionally, not physically, not sexually and would be contrary to the condition of homosexuality.

  7. Mr Fart, I’m the same. I really cannot be bothered with laboured, densely compacted prose lacking paragraphs.

    There are commenters here who from time to time lose at least this audience member for much the same reason. And who knows, they may even be making good points.

  8. This is not about trans-genderism in general, but what Prof. Littman calls “Rapid On-set Gender Disphoria”, which seems to be a societal contagion.

    “When extreme forms of distress and coping arise through novel social pressures and spread through implicit imitation, strange epidemics of “mass psychogenic illnesses” have been documented. These have extended to dancing plagues, possession epidemics on factory floors, fugue states, or epidemics of face-twitching.”

    So not unlike the Glass Delusion, then.

  9. BiP – maybe, but sex drive =/= fetishes.

    It’s pretty uncontroversial that sex fetishes are much more a male thing than they are a lady thing. Men really are manky bastards.

    John asks – Is transgender anything to do with homosexuality

    I think there’s two or three main types of transsexual:

    * Very effeminate gay men (possibly having been exposed to too much estrogen in the womb) who tend to transition early and go to great lengths to present as women (and are ridiculously promiscuous). The Thai ladyboy fits this category.

    * Very masculine middle aged men who’ve been nursing an autogynophile fetish for decades to the point it finally takes over their personality (the Bruce Jenner type).

    Possibly a third category of what we might unkindly call “beta” males who’ve failed to thrive in society as men. The SJW tranny tends to fit this template – these are the permanently angry Twitter and Tumblr users who identify as lesbians and usually don’t “pass” very well or have much interest in losing their penii. There’s also a strong overlap between autism and this sort of gender confusion – an incredible percentage are computer programmers.

    So, no, this doesn’t have much to do with classic, Freddy Mercury style bum banditry except in the first and smallest category.

    However, Steve’s grand unified theory of weird sex posits that all non-normal sex drives are best understood as fetishism, which itself is just another manifestation of addiction.

    The strongest evidence of this lies in the TransJenner category. These guys are often highly successful, high-T men who graduate from private cross-dressing to full-blown decepticonism, much in the same way alcoholics start off on a few cans of beer and work up to needing half a bottle of whisky every night to get the same sort of buzz.

    It’s not really an identity, it’s the obliteration of identity as they go to ever more extreme lengths to feed their dopamine appetite. The alcoholic becomes a machine for consuming booze, the autogyne becomes a machine for consuming kink.

  10. Bringing up rapid onset gender dysphoria is a quick way to see if a care provider is on your side as a parent with regards to a careful gradual approach or not, for bonus points suggesting a link to autistic behaviour, that can almost get you marched out of the office with the ‘affirmative action’ don’t question the child crowd

  11. @John B, December 4, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    I prefer the obvious simple explanation of more male gays/ts

    Every male has an X chromosome.

  12. Male homosexuals worldwide (3 to 4 percent) as compared to lesbians (1 to 2 percent). While these rates are the subject of debate, the much higher ratio of homosexual/lesbian MPs and MSPs as compared to population is a consistent concern of many voters.

    FTFY

  13. ” We know that the male brain is far more prone to fetishistic tendencies, so this fits.”

    That’s just not true. One of the advantages of my current life style is spending a lot of time around women go in for some seriously kinky gear. It doesn’t take much observation to realise they get more turned on by it than their clients ever do. The vast majority of guys just see it as the wrapping on the gift & want to open the box & start on the sweeties. It’s the girls getting damp about seamed fishnets, 6″ stilletto thighboots & wasp waste corsets. One of the sidelines I have going is importing the stuff. It goes like hot cakes. And not only to professionals.They buy vastly more than they could ever wear & spend hours gazing at themselves in mirrors & photographing themselves & each other. Sometimes the reek of female libedo’s overpowering. Like standing next to a furnace with the door open.
    It’s women who want to hit the sheets in stockings & sussies with their shoes still on. It’s women are the market for bondage hand & ankle cuffs & spiked collars. The rubber gear. Look at any woman getting dressed up to go out for the evening. Who do you think they’re doing it for? You?

  14. Yeah, but no. Manky mens’ heads is not the same as gals getting glistening gussets over pretty party wear. Not the sane thing, Mr in Spain. Not the same thing at all.

  15. Hmm. Of the three M-Fs I’ve know, all three of them were/are computer programmers, and very well-adjusted, non-SJW, non-hey-I’m-a-trannie types. But that could just be the circles I move in, also being a computer programmer.

  16. Look on this as research data, M’Lud. The amount of dosh you can make out of catering to the weirder desires of men is trivial. There just isn’t the market. Actually, the vast majority of blokes are so vanilla it’s embarrassing. We should be ashamed of ourselves. Heaven knows how may putas I know. Hundreds. There’s a couple specialise in the bondage S&M stuff. They don’t get rich on it. Shades of Grey sold because it sold into a big market. It’s not party dresses women fantasize about.

  17. “Steve’s new theory of weird sex: there’s no such thing as alternative sexualities, only paraphila.”

    Everyone knows that the more violently a man protests against gays and the more stereotypically ‘manly’ he portrays himself, the gayer he secretly is. Psychoanalysts call this ‘reaction formation’ and ‘projection’, and classify it as a level III neurotic defence mechanism. 🙂

  18. NiV – True dat.

    Arachnophobia is just cover for a secret desire to fuck spiders.

    Bloke in Spain – Irregardless of your naughty lady friends, I stand by my brilliant theories on sex. There are a million predominantly male fetishes but relatively few girly ones.

    Ever heard of a woman with a foot fetish? Or a midget fetish? Or being into cross-dressing? Fetishes are about as blokey as fly fishing or the readership of Top Gear magazine. Women don’t even begin to approach the male talent for perversion.

  19. Back over here Nulli?–thought you’d gone upmarket with your new pals at Samizdata–where DeHaviland’s play nice crap stops folk from having a –well-deserved–go at you. And you think the “intellectuals” over there can grok the full expansion of your name.

  20. “Ever heard of a woman with a foot fetish? Or a midget fetish? Or being into cross-dressing?”

    Yes.

    “Back over here Nulli?–thought you’d gone upmarket with your new pals at Samizdata–where DeHaviland’s play nice crap stops folk from having a –well-deserved–go at you.”

    Heh! You don’t think you having a go at me has any effect, do you? 🙂

    You can argue with me over there if you like – it just means you’ve got to bring rational arguments, instead of just swearing and shouting and stamping your tiny feet and throwing all your toys out of the pram. You can do that, right?

    It’s nice to be appreciated over there, and they can at least usually understand what I’m talking about. But there’s no point (or fun!) in having a debate/argument if nobody disagrees with me. You guys are more reliable for that.

  21. Never know whether to take you seriously, Steve. But

    “There are a million predominantly male fetishes but relatively few girly ones.Ever heard of a woman with a foot fetish?”

    It’s so common as to be unremarkable. A women will get a damp gusset just looking at a pair in a box.
    Fetishes amongst men are remarkable because the same behaviour amongst women is virtually the default. NiV’s blokes-in-frocks dress up in women’s togs because it makes them feel good about themselves. This is how women feel all of the time. Clothes make women feel sexy. It’s a strange bloke who looks at himself in a mirror in a car coat making a tent in his chinos. Give woman a length of heavy steel chain and she’ll run it through their fingers & think of being restrained in the bed. Give the same to a man & he’ll be wondering if it’s any use to hold up shelves in the garage.
    It’s been a revelation to me since I got involved in supplying some of this kit. I’d looked it in the same way as supplying overalls & pipe wrenches to plumbers. Tools of the trade. Turns out the market’s virtually limitless. No wonder Anne Summers does so bloody well. The only things stopping me firing up a full blown commercial enterprise is a distinct aversion to work & no idea what I’d do with the resultant profits. I’m trying to spend money not make it. I may be quite good at business but |I still haven’t worked out a way of taking it with me.

  22. How dare they use numbers to suggest there are any differences whatsoever between men and women? The number of transgender women is exactly the same as the number of transgender men.

    And how dare they dead-gender those transgender people by referring to them as men and women anyway? The sex at birth of a transgender person is irrelevant, as they really are the gender they want to be, just by wanting it.

  23. BiS – Your sexploits sound like the plot of a ribald 70’s comedy entitled “Confessions of a…”

    Please continue.

    NiV – “yes”

    You would.

  24. “Everyone knows that the more violently a man protests against gays and the more stereotypically ‘manly’ he portrays himself, the gayer he secretly is.”

    Not more bloody anti-Putin hysteria, please.

  25. maybe the difference is in the fetish to categorise and label not actually the having fetishes themselves
    I second your recommendation for the further exploits of BiS

  26. @bloke in spain, December 5, 2018 at 9:24 am

    +1

    Men simply have no idea of the sexual fantasies, pleasures, perversions and fetishes women have.

    Ms Gold discovered it with her “Tupperware” type house parties.

    Your chain analogy is appropriate.

    Gay men don’t seem to enjoy being shagged by a dog, donkey, horse etc either.

    .
    PS: want to buy some Fray Bentos Pies?

  27. Re: Men simply have no idea of the sexual fantasies, pleasures, perversions and fetishes women have.

    Returning to bedroom after shower and finding Mrs Pcar watching Pingu whilst masturbating was ahem “enlightening” first time.

    Swedes !

  28. “Not more bloody anti-Putin hysteria, please.”

    The irony being that if the ‘people who are violently anti-gay are closet gays themselves’ argument is correct, the violently anti-Putin and Trump people must secretly be wanting to be authoritarian bully boy hard men fascist leaders…………you hate the one you love, right???

  29. The thing is the percentages are extremely low so I would argue, wearing my scientists hat, that they are almost meaningless.

    Let me give you a similar example. Male Israeli fighter pilots are vastly more likely to have sons rather than daughters. Why? I posted this years ago on the (now) well defunct Counting Cats blog and asked for comments as to why this might be? I got some clever and quite plausible responses. Which were to quote Wolfgang Pauli, “Not even wrong”.

    What is the answer? There isn’t one. It is just an artifact of taking a very small sliver of the population. Fighter pilots must make-up of the order of 0.01% of the Israeli populace.

  30. “Let me give you a similar example. Male Israeli fighter pilots are vastly more likely to have sons rather than daughters. Why?”

    They’re not the only ones it’s been observed for.

    You’re right – it may just be because people went looking. The bell curve always has a few values at the extremes, and if this leads you to notice them and take them in isolation, that can be misleading.

    But I’d not automatically dismiss it, either.

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